the mistake the US made in the vietnam war was to try to use state planning to run the military, when really a guerrilla war needs a more ad-hoc approach, a free market as the US did in historical guerrilla wars
if we offered to pay large sums for the severed penises of enemy fighters, the vietcong would be up against criminal enterprises appearing spontaneously and infiltrating their own ranks in order to acquire the valuable commodity, to escape this fate men would lay down their arms and flock to the authorities for protection
>>529605 America lost because of that bullshit childish Rambo wannabe crap.(Also all those Star Wars nerds trying to make an "all seeing eye") >>529638 There is literally no difference between a bottle cap and an American dollar in economics. They both measure consumption and externalities except the bottle cap does it better
>not a single mention of based Choco Pies These delicious little shits are so goddamned fantastic that before Tongyang pulled their factory out of North Korea in 2013, their workers got 20 of 'em per day alongside their regular wages. When you consider that these chocolatey disks of love and marshmallow could fetch upwards of $9.00 USD on the North Korean black market, that was a pretty goddamned good deal.
What's even more interesting is that AFTER the closing of the factory, people stopped selling and buying Choco Pies, and began using them as currency outright.
As much as I think something like that would probably be effective, knowing human nature, the problem is the place America loses many of their wars is in the public opinion theatre, and that tactic wouldn't have gone over well at home. The days where murdering savage injuns was a just act for the benefit of civilization is gone.
>>529872 >>Rai stones are large circular disks with a hole in the center, like a doughnut, and stand as high as 12 feet tall and weighs as much as five tons each. Some of these stones are so large, they aren’t physically moved at all. They are simply owned, like immovable assets, and their transaction or ownership is recorded in the oral history. The physical location of the Rai is not important, the ownership is. In one instance, a large Rai was being transported by canoe when it accidentally dropped and sank to the sea floor. Although it was never seen again, everyone agreed that the Rai must still be there, so it continued to be transacted as genuine currency. When moving a Rai is necessary, a strong pole is passed through the hole and carried by men to the required destination. Smaller Rai stones measure 7-8 centimeters in diameter and are far easier to transact.
>>529847 >>529872 >The most retarded form of money >It's hard to carry one of those for a transaction away from your house
>failing to grasp the concept this hard
They don't roll the fucking things around for christ's sake, they verbally exchange ownership of the stones, not the physical stones themselves. Before you start mouthing off about how that's stupid, what the fuck do you think happens to the money you have in the bank?
>>529883 no, the stones weren't usually moved. It was just understood by the community which ones were owned by which people.
The Yapese told a researcher once about how one of the stones was being transported from another island or something and it fell off the boat into the ocean. Obviously there was no way to retrieve it but 'the stone at the bottom of the ocean' was still owned by a specific person and it could be spent on trades in a purely contractual manner.
>>529913 >a large Rai was being transported by canoe when it accidentally dropped and sank to the sea floor >Although it was never seen again, everyone agreed that the Rai must still be there, so it continued to be transacted as genuine currency
>>529929 Yes, they were moved around, as you just said they were. That's why they were wheels. Two guys and a big stick could move even the large ones. They would prop them up against their homes to show them off to the neighbors. Have a lot of big wheels was like having a nice car.
What you are saying is that SOMETIMES they didn't move them around.
>>529945 >And after decades, that stone at the bottom of the ocean still holds value because "we respect each other's word" I insist: Retard currency How is that retarded? You keep saying it but you aren't giving justification.
>>529750 Can confirm the tulip bulbs. The turks sold them to us for insane amounts of money. At one point they were worth the equivalent of €500,000 or so, before people realised they were just fucking tulips
>>530009 Just because the stones aren't viable on a large scale does not make their system retarded. It works wonderfully for their purposes. It's like calling it retarded to own an oven because it's simply not viable for commercial use when compared to an industrial oven that pumps out 5000 hot pockets a minute.
>>530076 We should spend more on Saturn V 2.0 rockets and less on big screen televisions and jewelry. I feel like we are using up Earth's resources just for the sake of using them up. We spend for spending's sake.
>>530181 But if the government just taxed more to allocate more funding to the exploration, exploitation, and eventual colonization of space then everyone would have jobs and the economy would be healthy, it would just be dedicated to shit that actually benefits humanity.
>>530198 That's what the additional taxes would be for. Everyone gets what they need to live comfortably and healthy and less to waste on luxury goods. Instead of allocating millions of humans to making iphones we will allocate them to building rockets and asteroid mining rigs.
>>530042 Its the concept of ownership. Ooga Booga gives a Rai to Ooga Looga in exchange for 5 cattle, then, later on, Ooga Looga decides to trade ownership of the Rai for some wood or some shit from Ooga Rooga.
I'm not from /pol/. I just thought that it would be funneh to have those names
>>530202 Robin hood fallacy and government inefficiency.
You can't guarantee that those resources will be utilized properly or efficiently. All evidence indicates the opposite. Imagine if space travel were run like the DMV. Hell, there's no guarantee they will be put to this use at all. Voters don't care about space so politicians do not care about space. Given the cost for this is a hindered economy and large mutli-national corporations jumping ship, skimming employees or finding more loopholes it hardly seems a worthy venture.
It's a nice thought anon but all you've done is exchange private excess and efficiency for public excess and government waste. Just wait for space to become profitable and for pic related to make your dreams a reality.
First off, even if inefficiency rises with the amount of money spent it will still be a more beneficial thing to spend money on than luxury goods for the sake of humanity. Secondly, increasing the scale of production decreases unit costs and makes it such mission failures are not catastrophic. You can just do the same mission on the rocket launching a week later. Without the need for high success rate contracts can be given out to the lowest bidder. And as more and more money is spent on space tech the better it will get.
>>530317 Bullshit. If employment is high then there isn't a problem. The only problem is the transition period where we don't have the people with the skill sets and the infrastructure necessary for the task.
>Spending more money on R&D within a field doesn't improve the tech within that field relative to if little to no money was spent in the field. Yes, yes it does, and obviously so.
The ONLY hurdle in significantly scaling up the exploration, exploitation, and colonization of space is convincing more people of it's necessity and how the luxuries they by with their yearly tax returns are slowly killing us all. You and I both agree it is necessary, we just have to convince others.
>>530347 >if employment is high then there isnt a problem
What? Higher taxes will not result in higher employment, quite the opposite.
Honestly I don't know if its necessary in this day and age, I do believe it is necessary to keep track of objects that could hit earth as one such catastrophic event easily could be the end of the modern world.
However, paying for it with more taxation is not the way to go. It won't become cheaper unless you let the free market go at it.
I'm not saying the system couldn't be improved, but selling "useless luxuries" creates wealth and is ultimately good for the economy. Wealth created through seemingly trivial means can be repurposed towards more substantive ends.
A direct example of this: Jeff Bezos founds Amazon, a company that exists primarily to sell luxury goods, and on the face of it seems to do little to "benefit humanity". He becomes fabulously wealthy as a result, and reinvests a significant portion of that wealth into Blue Origin, a company that is developing cheap, effective, reusable rockets to one day take humans into space.
A less direct example: Rich person buys a luxury car. The factory that makes this car employs hundreds of people who, as a result of the money put into the company by rich people buying superfluous luxuries like sports cars, are paid quite well. Since they are paid well, there is more money for the government to tax, which it then spends on NASA.
If you want to spend money on giant government projects, you need a strong economy to power your tax base. As we saw during the cold war, a strong economy is created through lowering taxes and loosening regulations (within reason), not the reverse. The issue is not that people are being taxed too little. The money is there. The issue is that it is not spent on space and science, but rather on welfare (personal and corporate) and the military.
>>530384 You are missing the entire point. The point of the high taxes is to get more of the economy dedicated to the exploration, exploitation and colonization of space. The taxes are to reduce the expenditure on luxuries and increase the expenditure on jobs relating to space.
>>530418 No, you cant distinguish between viet kong penises and peasant penises. You'd end up with cartels slaughtering remote villages because it's easier to kill and mutilate unarmed rice farmers than it is to kill viet kong members.
>>530404 >but selling "useless luxuries" creates wealth and is ultimately good for the economy Making luxuries is busy work! It's getting people working for sake of working! We are burning through Earth's resources and seeing nothing for it. We need to replace the busy work with tasks that benefit humanity. Instead of building luxuries we will be building rockets and asteroid mining rigs.
The economy is nothing but how we are using resource be they mineral, energy, farm land, or the workforce. We want to allocate as much of those resources to space as possible and that means reducing them in other areas, areas like the production of luxury goods that serve no real practical purpose.
We live in an age spend money needlessly and we could do so much better.
The government effectively assuming control over the economy will not lead to more money.
We have seen time and again that state controlled economies are weaker than more privatized ones. What you want is a thriving economy. That way, the government gets more money from taxes, which it can then spend on space projects, either directly or by subsidizing private companies.
If you're the government and you tax everyone 60% of their income and regulate the shit out of most industries, your population will become poor, your economy will shrink, and soon there'll be hardly any money for you to tax.
If, on the other hand, you tax everyone 20% and relax regulations, the economy will do better, people will get richer, and you'll ultimately get more money out of that 20% tax than you would have out of the 60% tax.
>>530440 >getting people working for sake of working
There is literally nothing wrong with this. Fiat currency is a sham and luxury goods are not needed. The economy is a game. Value has always been assumed. I'd rather workers toiled for their own hedonism so taxes could be paid towards NASA than have people just work towards subsistence and no taxes be paid to any advancements at all. Sorry dude, it's just the way we are. How things play out when we experiment with collectivism. Although I do agree NASA deserves a bigger slice of the existing tax 'pie'.
Welcome to humanity. Thank your lucky stars some of us even aspired to travel through space at all.
>>530470 Holy shit, anon. That's literally what I've been saying this entire time. The government gets the money in taxes and gives it out to private corporations to build the rockets, probes, habitats, and mining rigs.
The problem that you see will not be most effectively solved by nationalizing the economy, but by having a strong, private economy that can then be taxed in service of space travel.
Besides (and I say this as an ardent supporter of space exploration and colonization), space is not the only ethically valid place to spend money. What about healthcare? Food? Welfare programs? Non-space related science? Defense? Cars and trucks for normal people? Infrastructure?
Nationalizing the economy and directing it entirely towards space would ultimately lead to massive unemployment, a crashed economy, and a technological regression in all non-space related areas. You'd also likely see massive corruption and inefficient use of funds.
If you really want a space-based future for humanity, you'll get it through a thriving economy that, through taxes, supports both government-run programs and subsidies for private corporations. You will get this economy by having a business-friendly environment (ie low taxes and relaxed regulations).
>>530482 >exploring, exploiting, and colonizing space is important and necessary but only eccentric trillionaires should do it and not the government No one can do it but the government and you know it. Only the government can retool the economy on that scale.
>>530504 I didn't say nationalizing the economy. Fucking hell. You guys hear "raise taxes" and you start filling in the gaps with an evil communist boogieman. The tax money will get bid out as contracts to corporations to build everything needed for exploring, exploiting, and colonizing space.
>>530519 You are creating this ridiculous and circular abstraction of the economy.
The economy is just how we use resources be they mineral, energy, farm land, or the workforce. So long as they are being well utilized the economy is healthy. If the public at large has less money to spend on luxuries then companies that produce luxuries will liquidate their assets and companies that relate to the space industry will grow and multiply to fill in the gaps. If you find that hard to comprehend then just remember the the WW2 American economy retooling its factories from building cars to building aircraft and tanks. It's a lot like that.
>>530548 First of all, why do you hate paragraphs?
The economy can be directed. We can do it now instead of hoping the technology appears before we run out of the cheaply accessible fossil fossil fuels that makes modern global civilization possible. Humanity will never be more able to do it than now. You just want to buy all your luxury goods to make your life comfortable and leave all the hard work to the next generation.
>>530568 I'm suggesting we increase expenditures on the exploration, exploitation, and colonization as much as possible. It's more a public opinion battle than anything else. The public has to elect people who want this and have to be willing for their tax money to go to it. I'm just laying out how perfectly and utterly possible it is to do all this once we have that public opinion.
The hard part is you and me convincing people one by one that space is the place.
No one is saying that the economy can't be directed. It's just that you're suggesting a non-optimal method of doing it (or else you've misrepresented your suggestions has being more drastic than they are).
>>530591 Where is the money going to come from if not taxes? What are you going to reduce? Reducing welfare programs isn't the answer. A safetynet for wage slaves is beneficial to keeping as many people as productive as possible. It's luxury goods that are the biggest waste, all those big screen televisions, sports cars, and price inflated DeBeers diamond rings.
>>530725 That's cool. I always feel bummed out when I find out a crop I consume is harvested with wage slaves who can't even afford to send their kids to school. I hear the chocolate industry is like that.
>>530732 >I hear the chocolate industry is like that. I imagine the coffee industry is the same. Mainly because it can only be grown in a very specific area called the coffee belt (which is roughly the same place that chocolate is grown in as well). Always buy my coffee from the oxfam store to be safe.
>>529640 Holy fuck what? Do you flip shit anytime you see somebody holding a tool? Or a phone? Or anything that would be considered common to carry for that matter? Because that basically what a knife has been since it was created.
>inb4 b-but why do you need sob many knives? Having two or three knives isn't going to help you kill somebody any faster than somebody with one knife
>>529904 !!! US Marine who's done training with the ROK Marines twice, in 2014 and 2015 here. In the dark void of MREs, the shining light of the Choco Pie brought by Korean merchants to our artillery pause was the only thing that kept me going. Amazing to hear this about their power on the DPRK side, but understandable.
>>529913 >value of a specific stone is based not only on its size and craftsmanship, but also on its history. If many people—or no one at all—died when the specific stone was transported, or a famous sailor brought it in, the value of the rai stone increases by reason of its anecdotal heft
>>529863 >>530515 Fuck both of you edgelord NEET fucks. Just becuase your not allowed to turn it in for gold, does not mean its not backed by it. Go get out of your basement and read an economics textbook. Maybe you will change your mind on voting for bernie.
I study economics, and I can tell you that the US dollar is not backed by gold.
It's backed by the promise of the federal reserve to uphold its value and then subsequently the US government and military's willingness to uphold the federal reserve, and subsequently the trust the rest of the world has in their capability to do this.
>>529570 I have heard that an early chinese currency was farm tools, like shovels and forks, but they invented a new currency which was manifested as little models of the farmyard tools that could fit in your hand.
>>529594 I volunteered in rural West Bengal for a month three years ago. They use them as fuel. They take the cow shit and dry it out on the roofs of their huts during the day, then burn it to keep warm at night.
As far as I could tell they didn't keep cattle for any other reason.
All the cows were fucking tiny and malnourished as hell, you wouldn't get any milk out of them and they obviously didn't eat them cos Hinduism.
Totally unrelated but they also had no concept of butchery whatsoever. If they slaughtered a chicken to eat it, they'd just hack it to absolute fucking bits with a machete/axe instead of separating the meat from the bone, so you'd get your meat with all bits of crunched up bone in it.
>>529640 >>530975 Reminds me how in Eastern Europe, wandering watermelon salesmen would carry a large knife with them everywhere, so they could cut out a slice at any time. Well into the 90s they were still allowed to board trains and even planes with their knives hanging from their belts, though by this point the authorities had started confiscating their knives upon boarding the plane (they would give them back after landing.) Of course this is unthinkable nowadays.
>>530608 >>530615 Typically the way to brew brick tea was: >Break a small piece off >Toast it on a fire to get rid of anything that was stupid enough to start growing on your damn tea (also gave it a pleasant flavor) >Grind it to powder >Whisk in hot water
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