>God loves you >If you don't do what God wants, he

>>2169446
>hell
>eternal

>implying hell isn't just a place that you suffer for really long time
>implying you won't get reincarnated back as animal or ghost or demigod or even humans and gods

>>2169446
it's poetic language

It means that if you don't act appropriately bad things will happen to you in life due to the consequences of your actions.

You just murdered someone? now a bunch of people are mad at you and you'll probably be killed, sent to prison, or feel guilty about it for the rest of your life: you are now in hell
You just took a bunch of cocaine? What's that, you've been doing it for many years now and your social/financial life and health has sunk to rock bottom? you are now in hell

>>2169465
on the flip side, acting good is the best way to avoid going to hell

>>2169455
"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).

>>2169465
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)
If hell is a metaphor, heaven is too I guess.

Enjoying hell, Carlin?

Love is not happy with evil.

>>2169465
Hell is a literal place.

>>2169496
it is, and I believe that no man has ever gone to heaven. we know what hell is, we see people in hell all the time in their poverty and illness. we have no idea what the opposite of that could be. just what is the upper limit of living a good life?

>>2169503
Is the entire bible a metaphor?

>>2169516
I think of it as a guide to life that uses metaphors among other things that manages to keep its message timeless, partly because many of the stories in it have been around for thousands and thousands of years before they were even written down so. it was passed down for years and years because it was a useful guide to life. that's what I think anyway

>>2169503
Wow, another unoriginal pseud trying to validate Christianity by invalidating the entire religion because he doesn't like the supernatural elements of it.

I bet you think the ressurection wasn't a literal event either, merely a symbol for following Jesus' teachings will lead to a more fulfilling life.

I hope you die soon.

>>2169530
I'm trying to validate traditional myths that were passed on for thousands of years. I think all of these ancient myths served their societies in some way. they weren't useless things

>>2169446
This is how I understand it.

One thing you must understand about heaven is that heaven is like church but for an eternity and if you're not a Christian than that means you don't love God and so heaven will be like hell on earth.

What you need to understand about hell is that you send yourself to hell. Throughout the bible God gives people, mainly Jews, multiple chances to repent but still due to their stubbornness they refuse God's invitation to eternal life. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell but due to our inequity and hedonism we willingly stray from God. God does love you and doesn't wish eternal suffering for you and tries to give you opportunities to repent I mean why did he send prothets? It was so people would come back to him and be SAVED!

>>2169538
They weren't useless things because they were real events, not myths.

You should read the Bible before making stupid comments in it.

>>2169528
So.. its outdated thousand year old stories, not holy or sacred, nothing in there is about any description of what the nature of reality actually is.
Just good advice from people who thought being willing to kill your child for your metaphor god is the epitome of morality?

>>2169503
So the weeping and gnashing of teeath doesn't mean eternal suffering?

>>2169549
I'm not just talking about the myths behind Christianity. the mythe of all ancient cultures around the world wserved them in various ways

>>2169554
the details are outdated, the broader message isn't. after all our western societies were based around these myths so out actions are still aligned more or less with what was deemed appripriate back then. also it has more than just individual advice, it has advice for society at large. about what works and what doesn't

>>2169446
What makes this so beautiful is that it's such a simple of refutation of Christfag beliefs, and yet they STILL act as though it can somehow be rationalised.

It makes no fucking sense, and it never will.

>>2169545
So instead of making a universe where everyone is happy, he decided naw, lets add suffering and pain and confusion in here, and make vague weird rules how to get eternal happiness, plus a bunch of other religions to make it extra dificult.
Because he loves everyone so so much.

I'm not saying religion is all evil, but this specific view of life is demeaning and idiotic. "Daddy rapes me cause he loves me, I wouldn't have it any other way"

>>2169564
And that advice made the last 1500 years so nice. Until secularism started kicking the shit out of religious values and moderating and castrating the actual religious lifestyle.
Now its all "its just a metaphor, it means something else entirely you see.."

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>>2169564
>>2169576
>ask a Christfag something about the bible
>the entire religion suddenly becomes more abstract than a Pollock painting and nothing is literal (unless it's convenient)

https://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/spirituality/the-kingdom-of-heaven/heaven-and-hell

>>2169446
Compartmentalization is a hell of a drug.

>>2169571
>inb4 "God works in mysterious ways"

>>2169545
>God gave you free will
>God created you knowing exactly what you would do, and exactly what your destiny will be, and he knows everything you've done, are doing, and will do

Also, he created the people Amazonian tribes that will never come into contact with any modern civilization, much less missionaries or prophets, so they're going to sin and go to hell and somehow it's their fault?

>>2169458
BLASPHEMY!

What happens if god actually exist and i dont want to go to heaven?

What happens when I don't want to go to heaven nor hell? Limbo?

>>2169661
If you don't want to go to heaven that's a sin so

>>2169689
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

It isn't about what you want. The souls in whom the seed of the Word bears fruit will be saved, all the rest will be cut down.

>>2169481
>eternal destruction
It's called death. The wicked do not receive eternal life and so, when they die, they are destroyed for all eternity.

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>>2169745
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8)

Lemme guess, you're going to say "Eternal Fire" is just a metaphor for death.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46)

Is eternal punishment a metaphor too?

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10)

HMMMM I WONDER WHAT THIS IS A METAPHOR FOR

>>2169691
But thats retarded i just dont want eternal life, i just want to stop existing when i die

>>2169758
might be the punishment is eternal but the sufferer is not

ie. the fire of hell burns forever but suckers dropped in it don't

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>>2169792

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>implying
http://godisimaginary.com/

>>2169792
There are sects of Christians who believe this to be the case. Basically they take Jesus metaphor of gathering wheat and burning chaff to symbolize the obliteration of a sinful soul in the fires of Hell rather than lingering in torment.

>>2169606
Predestination is a Calvinist lie. Read the gospel.

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>>2169819
>I created man and women with original sin

>>2169819
He didn't create mankind with original sin, he's just punishing all of it for the disobedience committed by two fictional characters.

Also the existence of evolution doesn't undermine Christianity in anyway. Even though the gradual development of the Homonid species damages the idea of "first humans" existing historically, and weakens the idea of Jesus Christ being the literal "new Adam" that saved mankind from the first disobedience, the pope said it doesn't undermine Christianity in anyway.

>>2169854
no? whose fault was it then? was that person also created by god? who is omniscient and knew everything they would do?

>>2169880
I've no idea what you're getting at, but perhaps consider that the phenomena of death is a natural thing, and not the unnatural product of disobeying the will of god.

It's hard to believe in the idea of original sin existing when our ancestors were dying long before the concept was invented.

>>2169606
>implying that people who had no chance of salvation are judged by god the same way people who had a chance at salvation are

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>>2169792
>The punishment is eternal but the sufferer is not
What the fuck are you talking about? If the sufferer isn't eternal then the punishment for the sufferer isn't eternal. You must have long arms to reach that far, Anon.

>>2169927
>hell cant be eternal if the sinners soul isn't

>>2169918
If that's the case, why missionaries tell anyone about God? Doesn't that make their lives harder? Why was I told about God?

>>2169932
It says punishment, not punishmentS. It's talking about a punishment for one sinner for eternity. If it were talking about hell being a 24/7 torture emporium it would say punishmentS.

>>2169903
>I've no idea what you're getting at

How can Christfags be this fucking delusional

Holy shit

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>>2169446
>this person just burned my house, rape my daughter, kill my grandma and put a knife in my kidney
>in heaven, that guy is my neighbor
Yeah, sure bud. God is loving according to your logic.

>>2169970
What?

>>2169962
I assume that part means "deleted forever" as in no resurrection

>>2170005
In Heaven you're not going to give a shit.

>>2169903
>I've no idea what you're getting at
original sin
you said god isn't responsible
so who is
and is god responsible for that person

>>2170016
God isn't responsible for original sin because original sin is an absurd idea, and so is the Abrahamic god

>>2169516
It is. If you follow its core morals just as everyone else, you will find yourself in heaven because what we turned our world into is now a paradise.

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>Don't believe god exists
>Live life with values similar to christian ones
>Still go to hell because DEUS VULT

The Holy Bible is literal.

The Koran is the word of God

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>>2170012
Bullshit, but LET SAY that your argument is valid(which is not).

That mean people can do whatever the hell I want(raping, killing, memeing, stealing, ect). Why? Because there're no consequences.

By creating hell, God make people fear to commit sins.

>>2170085
Its a stupid level of punishment though, as though Jaywalking deserves the death penalty.

>>2170075
The Koran is just a simplified bible. So that even goatfuckers can do something of use.

>>2170005
>God created that person knowing full well he was going to do all of those things

>>2170074
>He thinks anyone is capable of living a good life
>He doesn't know that even Christians *deserve* damnation and are only saved by God's merciful grace

>>2169571
The only way I can make some sense of it is if God is all in on freewill and has that as his highest value. So he'll let things play out no matter how they end. I really think christians should go with this argument instead of resorting to the "god works in mysterious ways". At least they'd have SOME ground to stand on.

>>2170085
He's right though, no matter how many smug anime girls you post. Of heaven is truly paradise, as the bible describes it, why would you care if he was your neighbor? Are you saying that you'd be pissed off if someone you thought was a bad person would get into heaven? Would you really hold a grudge for all eternity?

Also, if that person who stabbed you and all that shit went to confession, wouldn't he still get into heaven and be your neighbor? God forgives you of your sin, doesn't he?

>>2170169
Nothing has a ground to stand on.
Do you even scepsis?

>>2170172
Yes, all those people go to heaven and no after salvation you for sure won't have a grudge.

>>2170164
>God made us to be evil
>therefore we "*deserve*" damnation

LOL
O
L

>>2170172
Not the anime poster, but the point is that if someone is unrepentant of their sin yet still makes it to heaven then heaven would no longer be a paradise because it would be full of unrepentant sinners.

Y'all fuckers take your logic with heaven and hell in relation to the suffering of this life only halfway.

If heaven is real and the good go there, it doesn't matter what happens to you in this life, no matter the horror of it. When compared to ETERNAL BLISS, the worst of this life is like a papercut and the best is like a tasty grape.
100.000.000 years into bliss, you'll look back on any torment of this life and chuckle at it.

And when it comes to you all complaining about not understanding the reasoning of God, if he is the great creator of everything, he also created the concepts of justice and is thus the epitome of it. You guys are whining like children whine about not getting chocolate before dinner.

>>2170164
God created hell to save people from it. That's like me pointing a gun at you but not shooting it, and saying I saved your life.

Why must I suffer for some "original sin"? I literally dindu nuffin.

>>2170189
>lol who cares if you got flayed alive it was just a paper cut! xD

>>2170185
>Being Biblically illiterate

God made us good but we chose to be evil. Unlike Eve, Adam was not deceived by the serpent but chose to eat the fruit anyway because he put his desire for woman above his responsibility to God.

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>>2169446
>if you don't do what God wants
Anon... let me give you an example;

Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men made up of 2% of the population but 55% of people living with HIV in the US. So, gay is dead wrong.

NOW, we DAMN KNOW that HIV AIDS can spread to the normal community as well.

SO, if you and people around you want salvation on earth, then follow God's law.

>>2170098
I know, it harsh. But remember, your body are immortal, and hell is not eternal. Once you finished your punishment, you can enter heaven.

I would be cheating with wife right now IF the punishment is light in the afterlife.

>>2170153
God gave us the FREEDOM OF WILL. God gave us law. It's OUR fault that HIV AIDS are spreading among the homosexual community. We LET them be legal in the US.

You were given opportunity to board a ship during the flood. Are you going to blame the captain if you drown?

>>2170172
Then that God wouldn't be loving. That guy rape your daughter, your mom, your sister, and the next thing you knew that guy is your neighbor in heaven.

Is this fair? Hell no.

>>2170199
If Christianity is true, then yes. Who cares about what happened in this life, which is but a season?

>>2169446
God doesn't love you. Jesus loves you. God is kind of a dick. Read the new testament.

>>2170197
Did you really dindu nuffin?
Seems like you just lied.

ITT: muh contradictions
The only people whose argument that applies to is retarded proddyshits who essentially interpret the entire bible as literal.
Furthermore, the use of strawmans only further proves the lack of knowledge by the majority of fedoras in this thread.

Also,
>trying to use reason to figure out God
You're missing the point of religion. Go read some Kierkegaard.

>>2170209

I certainly didn't have anything to do with Adam eating an apple.

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>>2170172
Gee, I can't wait to go bowling with Hitler in heaven

>>2170200
>God made us good but we chose to be evil.

God is perfect, therefore all that originates from him is also perfect, and therefore not evil QED kill yourself

>>2170206
>If Christianity is true,

It isn't.

>>2170191
Justice requires that sin be punished. Hell is necessary by product of free will; if you sin against an eternal being then you deserve eternal punishment.

>>2170210
>just blind faith man!

>>2170212
But you have the knowledge of evil.
You're capable of doing harmful things to others.

>>2169446
See >>2169455

Theres a big difference between torture and purposeful seperation from God

The more likely scenario for hell is just a place without God entirely, compeltely seperated from the light, a world with absolutely 0 good in it. Imagine the State of Nature except now you cant die to escape it.

>>2169758
>Quoting revelations

Everybody knows that's the bizarro episode of the New Testament story arc. Can't take it literally friendo.

>>2170215
Free

Will

>>2170220
>guilty before committing a sin
>god logic

>>2170219
>xD I can't come up with an argument so i'll greentext instead of actually thinking of something, >>>>>>>>>>>>/reddit/>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that way

>>2170219
He's right though, using reason to figure out God is retarded.

Blind faith is also retarded, but it's the essence of religion.

>>2170224

Christian mental gymnastics, everyone.

>>2170229
We can't go against the will of a perfect being, fucknut.

>>2170230
>being this retarded
>not understanding basic concepts
>not understanding that being born is literally a sin
>the only sinless one was Jesus

>>2170230
But think of what prevents you to commit a sin?

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I'm not OP but can we leave 'which religion is true' aside?

It's much easier for us uncivilized monkeys to focus on one thing at a time.

The question is, "Is it fair for God to place us in hell if we don't follow His commandments?"

>>2170241
>being born is literally a sin

For what reason?

>>2170249
>being this thick
Have you read the Bible? LITERALLY THE STORY OF ADAM AND EVE.

>>2170241
This is just embarrassing.

>>2170255
You didn't answer his question.

>>2170255

Are you not capable of explaining it?

>>2170258
How can he explain what he doesn't understand?

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And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

>>2170249
>For what reason?
Prottie autism.

>>2169446
Hell is a godless place. A place where you simply face your own lack of goodness, because everything good is God and comes from God.

>>2170239
God's will is that we make our own choices.

>>2170275

I'm not Christian, just seeking to understand the concept of original sin. Are you just going to shit fling or have an actual discussion?

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>>2170255
Anon... listen:

Ezekiel 18:20:

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son SHALL NOT bear the iniquity of the father, NEITHER shall the father bear the iniquity of the son...

So, we do not bear the original sin.

>>2170242
Ok hoped you would answer.

In the original state of man, he wasn't capable of committing a sin and didn't need a prevention in the first place.

>>2170284
According to the teachings of the holy fathers, original sin is a direct effect of being born to a sinful parents, who were born to a sinful fathers et cetera. Long story short, people are essentially good beings born in filth that needs to be washed off. Maybe I'll start a thread about it, watchu' thinking?

>>2170276
That's impossible, because then we would be free from God's will.

You're not very intelligent, are you?

>>2170289
His means that if your father kills its not your sin.

The original sin is something that is in all humans it's in our souls. We don't inherit souls we just have them.

>>2170289
But anime-anon, Ezekiel is speaking specifically to the people of Israel whereas Adam's sin affects all mankind so that verse doesn't apply to original sin.

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>>2170309
No, it means that the sin is not inherited. In other words, your sin is your sin and my sin is my sin.

Why do Jesus have to die since Hebrews 8:12:

For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Is it logical for God to sacrifice His Son(one of the two Begotten Son) since God can forgive sins? No.

>>2170323
Oh and look >>2170333

Just to add;

>>2170189
You forget that there's also ETERNAL DAMNATION AND AGONY in there for that little paper cut.

>>2170223
Considering I'm a godless heathen, and live among other godless heathens, I find this alright. Thank you god, for letting me continue my godless ways for eternity.

In heaven, are you allowed to sin? Such as constantly getting drunk as fuck on wine?

>>2170333
>logical
You shall not take the use of words which meaning are in darkness to your mind.

Lucas 33:67

>>2170333
Why is this illogical?

>>2170205
Once again Anon, you forget that God will forgive that murderer if he repents and he WILL be your neighbor in heaven, whether you like it or not.

Matthew 6:14-15 says:
"14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

1 John 1:9 says

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Perhaps you should actually read the bible before making uninformed statements about what it says.

If God knows exactly what we're going to do and knows exactly what our destiny will be, in fact, he creates our destiny, we don't have free will.

Also, being gay isn't there reason why HIV exists.Correlation does not equal causation. They don't have HIV because they're having sex with men, they have HIV because they're having sex with another human that has HIV. You can et HIV from a woman. Did you know that autism rates have increased with the sale of Organic Foods? Therefore we shouldn't allow Organic Foods, right?

Also, no one even mentioned homosexuality and that's a really shitty example. Fuck off back to /pol/ if you want an excuse to post that shit.

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>>2169446
I can accept the idea of God's existence, but what proof do we have for anything written in the Bible being true?

I've genuinely never understood how anyone could argue this

>>2170224
>The bible is only true when it's convenient for me

>>2170374

Even though men wrote and then decided which of those writings would be "the word of god", you just have to have faith man.

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>>2170353
>blasphemy
>satan
>"you're going to hell"
I expect as much. You don't have the balls to listen to your Bible. Be reasonable.

>>2170357
As I said, God can forgive sins. Why should God sacrifice his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to die for our sins?

>>2170372
I type something real quick

>>2170386
>I type something real quick
Is this supposed to be an argument?

>>2170348

You raise a good question... Man, heaven will be boring as fuck.

>>2170394
Heaven is awe and wonder of being allowed to sink into the Absolute for eternity. And it is an abstract concept. If you want heaven filled with hot chicks and alcohol rivers, ask muslims.

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>>2170372
Yes, if you repent, then God forgives you.

>read the bible
I'm only stating why God create hell. No need to go far.

>destiny
God only know what will happen. But tha

>gay HIV
I'm addressing why we should follow God's law and give gay as an example.

The homosexual community have way way way way likely to get HIV compared to normal community. Look at the statistics >>2170205.

Your argument are way way way way way way weak.

Beside, condom only provide 70% protection against STDs, as opposed to 99.999% protection for normal couple.

Would you build a nuclear power plant if it has 30% to explode? No.

>pol
...But I love /his/

>>2170386
Because you are wrong?
You should read the whole thing onstted of little clusters.
Things refer to other things you know.

>>2170407

So what, you basically spend eternity hugging God?

>>2170408
>destiny
God gave us freedom of will. We can decide our own future. God only know what's going to happen, that is He can see multiple of future(one where you be hardwork and succeed and one where you be lazy and fail).

>>2170417
If by "sinking into Absolute for eternity", you mean "hugging", then sure. And no, it's not like hugging a long bearded santa with bedsheets for clothes.

>>2170408
>>2170408
If I build a computer, I know the specs of the computer and how it will run before I build it. If I build it using shitty parts, it's not the computers fault for being shitty. Unless you're saying that God just created a bunch of mystery bags and picked out humans at random?

Also, please stop it with the homosexuality statistics. It's not relevant to the thread and you appear to purposefully be trying to start a flame war. Use a less controversial example next time to prevent the thread from veering off onto another topic.

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>>2170414
>because you're wrong?
>need to read the whole bible
Ever heard of a red-letter Bible? Red-letter represents what Jesus is saying.

24 out of 27 book of the NT DONT EVEN HAVE ONE READ LETTER IN IT.

What did Jesus said?

Mark 12:28-29:

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the LORD IS ONE."

John 14:48 :
....My Father is greater than I

John 10:29:
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all...

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing....

Johh 5:30 clearly implies Jesus does not possess the quality of God. God can do everything.

Matthew 24:36:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse is talking about doomsday. This clearly state that Jesus(Son) doesn't know when is doomsday. God know everything, but Jesus doesn't know everything.

What Jesus HIMSELF is saying that the Father is GREATER than him.

All of these verses contradict the Christians very belief.

Now tell me, who is your Master? Jesus? If yes, then accept these verses. If no, throw these verses from the Bible.

Am I lying? No, I'm only quote what Jesus HIMSELF said.

>>2170461
Has Jesus ever said he was born from a virgin?

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>>2170431
>gay statistics
As an example. Also, statistics don't lie.

>destiny
Look, God gave use brains. You want salvation? Use it. You want to get hurt? Take drugs.

God gave us free will. We DECIDE our future.

Yes, God know the future. BUT, He only know, not decide. It our fault if we hurt ourselves.

>>2170467
Look, being born from a virgin doesn't contradict what Jesus said. What Jesus said in >>2170461 contradict Christianity itself. Your master is Jesus, listen to him.

>>2170505
No I'm just asking if he ever said he was born from a virgin. Has he?

>>2170488
Why does everybody tend to confuse freedom of will with a mathematical theory of chaos?

>Time and space are one and the same matter and not a linear set of separate events those come to be one after another.
>If there's no linear set of events lined up to "happen", everything "happens" at one point.
>Everything you did or will do already happened, already was decided by you in some way.
>God knows that.
>You're predestinated to do what you do only by yourself alone.
>God knows who'll repent and become part of His Church and who will not.
>Therefore He set up men of his Church to always "catch" and gather around people predestinated to salvation, like a fisherman catches fish.

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>>2170210
This, basically, especially on that Kierks recommendation.

Religion has a lot to teach us through archetypes and other meta myths, but beyond that there is not much reason, really only faith. In the end, what are the atheists in this thread trying to do anyways? Make some theists butthurt? Atheists can't disprove the existence of god, neither can theists prove it. (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).

Anyways, these kinds of threads on /his/ are the worst and they always amount to the same arguments and conclusions (basically nothing).

>>2169446
god is a yandere

>>2170540
>(Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).

Yes it is.

>>2170488
>Also, statistics don't lie.
Yes anon, I know statistics don't lie. They can be deceiving, however.

>>2170522
But he created me with that destiny, as when he was creating me, he already knew what my decision would be - why create someone who's going to rebel against him and then punish them for it, Where's the logic in that?

>>2170555
>he can't into basic logic
kek

>>2170559
>you don't know logic haha

Good argument

>>2170560
Your argument being? You just said "Yes it is" without giving anything to back it up.

>>2170565
You didn't give anything to 'back up' your statement either, idiot.

Probably because you can't.

>>2170518
Maybe. But I believe he is born from a virgin.

>>2170556
Yes, but are mine deceiving you?

*wink*

>>2170558
As I already stated earlier (I should totally pick a nickname for this thread):

>>2170275
>Hell is a godless place. A place where you simply face your own lack of goodness, because everything good is God and comes from God

Why would God punish you with nonexistence? The point of will is that you can do whatever you want. Hell is abandonement of God's presence and everything that comes with that presence (and what men perceive as "good"). Hell is place without goodness and you can personally choose to live there.

>>2170568
>he can't into googling
Claiming the absence of god is evidence of his absence is very weak logically at BEST.
Also,
>he can't into problem of induction

I think you missed the point of my original post anyways, that being, reason has very little place in religion, perhaps learning things from archetypal stories, the rest is placed upon faith.

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>>2170558
Again, He only know our future, not decide it for us.

>>2170522
Yeah, I don't know what you're implying.

>>2170420
If he doesn't know which one is going to be the one we're ultimately going to choose, then he's not omniscient.

>>2170591
He knows your future - but when he was creating you - he was then also aware of your future and all the choices you're going to make - so why create you when he KNOWS that you're going to rape children and kill your grandma, for which he'll then punish you for eternity - he's basically punishing you for creating you in the first place. He had a choice not to create you, if he knew you'd sin beforehand, so wouldn't need to punish you in the first place.

>>2170590
>Claiming the absence of god is evidence of his absence is very weak logically at BEST.

Why?

>>2169446
>God loves you
>If you don't do what God wants, he will send you to a place where you will suffer
in eternal pain and agony

God loves us, unconditionally. However, we fell into sin through knowledge, breaking that connection with God, hencell this fallen world. OP, your premise is a twisted Protestant doctrine, heretical. We choose to sin or not and be apart from God, thoigh if we pray unceasingly, fast, and do good works from our genyine, repentant heart in Christ's name then yes, we can be lifted by God's Grace and us striving for Him. Salvation is a path, now and after death, not a given moment. God's love is warm, soft, and as the uncreated light; however, ifor we are sinners and know God not, they warmth is such as a fire due to our own errors, not God. Christ is our salvation, God in the flesh, whom allows us to be with God again through cleansing the sin brought about by the first Adam.

T. Orthodox

>>2170597
Yeah, forget my rubbish. See my >>2170488. It has anime girls in it.

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>>2170621
>Purposely ignoring the last part of my post
/reddit/ is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>2170591
>Yeah, I don't know what you're implying.

That God knows all your "future" actions, because - if we treat time as dimension higer than 3D reality we perceive - your past, present and future is one and the same matter. Imagine a 2D being trying to understand our 3D reality. It can't see you in three dimensions, right? If it tried to observe you, it could only see a set of sections going through his realm.

Now, imagine a 3D being trying to understand 4D reality. Could you see it as a one being? Or could you just see a set of sections going through your realm?

>God is the embodiment of goodness
>Hell is separation from God
>Getting mad at not having something you chose to not have
It's so simple to understand; I can't believe how many blokes still fall for this "hell is a place" meme. It was done by artists for dramatic effect, but I feel like in the long run it did more harm than good.

>>2170635
Because it wasn't relevant, answer my question.

>>2170649
Would you agree that God is perfect?

>>2170606
You see, 'know' is different from 'decide'. Agree?

>why do we exist
To prove the existence of smoothness in Navier-Stokes equation? To be bless with family? To be able to have civilized post on /his/ with you?

>>2169566
Faith is inherently irrational, the problem with the world and with people is that they're too rational, rationality is grotesque

>>2170650
>wasn't relevant
>was the main point of my initial post
kek go *dib* your fedora elsewhere

>>2170669
Just admit that you can't answer, it's very obvious.

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>>2170637
>>2170606
Again, 'God knows' is DIFFERENT from 'God decides'.

>>2170348
No, but that's what Islam believes Heaven is, straight carnal. Yet another reason it'seems a false religion.

>>2170653
By any standard I'd have to say yes.

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FOR ATHEIST BRO:

According to scientists, the universe has an ultimate beginning.

Meaning that before the universe, there was nothing.

According to the law of physics, we can't create something out of nothing.

Following this logic, we shouldn't exist in the first place, but somehow we do.

God created us Anon. Worship God. He is our Creator.

Not saying which religion is true though, it too vast of a topic.

HAPPY FUCKING NEW YEAR

>>2170664
He knows what you're going to do and he decides whether to create you or not.
It is determinism whether you want it or not, he still creates you knowing you're going to sin and then punishes you for it - that's not logical at all. He never had to create you in the first place, you would have never sinned and he wouldn't need to punish you. You're predetermined to your fate at the moment of your creation, if you claim that god is all-knowing.

>>2170692
Hey, at least we don't say that God die.

>>2170680

>>2170704

>>2169848
But he did. The Garden of Eden was orchestrated by god himself.

What is the point of asking where Adam is if you already know where he is? Oh wait, because you don't, because pre-NT, you weren't omnipotent, you were a pagan canaanite god of storms and war known as Yahweh. You were just the same as the other pagan gods just as you have encounters with the others.

"Baal" = Brother of Yahweh
The Egyptian priests performing the miracles of their gods.
Perhaps the witch of Endor
The oppositional gods that the Jews originally worshiped.

>>2170692

So what exactly is Christian heaven? What would you do?

>>2170701
>According to scientists, the universe has an ultimate beginning.

Either absolutely wrong or a complete misconception.

>Meaning that before the universe, there was nothing.

No scientist worth his salt says this. Also, absolutely false.

>According to the law of physics, we can't create something out of nothing.

As far as we know, yes.

>Following this logic, we shouldn't exist in the first place, but somehow we do.

Not so. "We" as in the universe has always existed. That's what the big bang was.

>God created us Anon.

>Citation needed.

And by this logic, what created god?

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>>2170606

It's called "a passive mercy" - a puzzle known since at least the early Church and developement of theodicy. And - just like a whole issue of merciful God's position against evil - it's usually interpretted as the ultimate victory of personal freedom of will, even before safety and well being of others.

Now, it is also believed that God doesn't abandon people getting hurt because of others' freedom of will. If you kill your grandma, the chances are she'll spend eternity with God while you, as a murderer, will spend eternity without God. There're known and unknown saints who's left concentrations camps and gulags directly to heaven.

To be more universal, switch the term "God" with "good", "goodness". Think of everything that can be good to people. Think of other people's well being. It's almost "karmic" (even though I try to not mix beliefs so different) - God is well being to others, therefore being with God = taking care of other people's well being. Not being with God = not taking care of other people's well being.

For those who think this is unfair - you can't have absolute freedom of will without the risk of abandoning goodness (sin). Moreover - God himself not only agreed for that somewhere far away, in Heavens. He personally took this exact same fate. Which started in the era where like 50% of people didn't even survive up to 18 years old, era of occupation and ignorance, and unrest, and ended on a cross - literally one of the most hideous ways to live and die. Not some easygoing, comfy 1st world country of 2000. But one the worst ages to humanity.

Even die hard atheists gotta admit that - if letting evil to happen was God's own sin, He repentet for it on a cross. He knew all along and yet, he allowed it. This is how important freedom of will is.

>>2170739
One person told me that we worship god for all eternity, of course he was a pentecostal.

A catholic told me that we preach to the sinners in purgatory. But then what after that?

A Mormon told me that we create our own worlds and become gods in our own rights just as our god was once flesh as we were and he worshiped his god. More questions than answers really but interesting.

It depends on which "christian" you ask.

>>2170692
LOOK (>>2170461)

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>>2170749
Discussing why the Roman Catholicism is one and true Church created by Jesus himself is a subject for a whole different thread, and the current one is too interesting to hijack IMO.

>>2170699
Would this mean he was omnipresent?

If so, how can we be separated from Him?

>>2170709
Though you're a Muslim that by default believes the lies and deciet of demons as truth ("Allah is the greatest deciever"), Christ was in fact crucified on the cross. He gave Himself up for our sins to cleanse us of it, much as the carnal lamb was to cleanse Jews of their sins once a year.
When Adam and this humanity fell, we became separated from God and His grace. He watched us for ages before repeatedly choosing the Hebrews to try and guide them, though they failed again and so on. God, being timeless, outside existence but everywhere in all things, sent His only begotten Son through the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became fully God and fully Man, the only sinless human ever. Christ was crucified for our sake, being the eternal sacrifice as the second Adam, and rose again in three days, killing death by His own death. Death which had previously held reign over us does noton get so, as we can have eternal life with God. However, Christ, God, taught us a new set of laws and a new Covenant - love. Following this with a repentant heart with all our lives and sinless allows us to be in God's grace. This is seen by the many miracles of the Saints.
Islam brings only death, "by their fruits you shall know them", which along with the fact that no miracles were done by Mohammed or any Muslim really, shows that Islam is a false religion.
I hope you read the Gospel, visit an Orthodox Monastery, and realize that Orthodox Christianity as spread by Christ, His Apostles, and the Holy Spirit is the true Islam.

>>2170749

The first two sound fucking dreadful, and while the mormon one actually sounds great, there's no way they're right.

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>>2169465

I don't know. It seems like the bad people who run things and own all the money which they earned through nefarious means are having a good time with live.

>>2170765
I disagree with that statement actually.

There isn't a single contemporary source that states that this Jesus character even truly existed. None of the events of the Jesus story are corroborated anywhere else.

>>2170775

I have a question, if you were born and raised Muslim how would you know any better?

>>2170757
Your spam and copypasta has already been refuted in other threads on /pol/ and /his/. There's no reason to dignify it here.

>>2170786
No it hasn't.

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>>2170741
>beginning
Read:

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-origin-of-the-universe.html

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

>something out of nothing
Read the 'universe from nothing' theory reception:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Universe_from_Nothing

>before universe there was nothing
Ok anon, heard of the Second Law of Thermodynamics? (Study up, God bless you)

If universe did exist since forever(which it not), then all over the universe should be in equilibrium(same temperature, matter, brightness, ect).

But we DAMN KNOW this is not the case.

>what created god?
He exists. Before time and Universe itself. He is, dare I say it, God.

>>2170784

Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods (3100 B.C.)
He had 12 disciples.
One was born of a virgin in a cave.
Like Jesus, his birth was announced via a star.
And three wise men showed up!
He was baptized when he was 30 by Anup the Baptizer.
He rose a guy from the dead and walked on water.
Lastly, he was crucified, buried like Jesus in a tomb, and resurrected.

Buddha, (563 B.C.)
Healed the sick
Walked on water.
Fed 500 men from one basket of cakes.
Taught a lot of the same things Jesus taught, including equality for all.
He spent three days in jail.
Was resurrected when he died.

Mithra, an ancient Zoroastrian deity with similarities to Jesus (2000 B.C.)
Virginal birth on December 25th.
Swaddled and laid in a manger.
Tended by shepherds in the manger.
He had 12 companions (or disciples).
Performed miracles.
Gave his own life to save the world.
Dead for three days, then resurrected.
Called “the Way, the Truth and the Light.”
Has his own version of a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

Krishna, (around 3000 B.C.)
A Hindu God.
Born after his mom was impregnated by a God.
Angels, wise men, and shepherds were at his birth.
Guess what gifts they gave him? Gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
A jealous bad guy ordered the slaughter of all newborns, just as happened with Jesus.

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>>2170775

>>2170785
You wouldn't, and that's the true sad fact and shame.

The Imams forbid it and teach absolute falsehoods of Christianity without opening a Gospel. Remember, if you convert from Islam it's death. That's why though there are converts, they are almost always hidden or keep it quiet, but God protects them.

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>>2170775
LOOK >>2170461

>>2170798
>implying there is any evidence at all the universe is that old

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>>2170802
This is why no one takes you seriously, Christfags.

>>2170786
/pol/?

>>2170810
LOOK >>2170701 and >>2170810

>>2170801
Look you animuposter, again, you've already been refuted in other threads along with your copypasta. It's a shame this is your job.

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>>2170802

This. Also humans and dinosaurs co-existed.

>>2170784
>There isn't a single contemporary source that states that this Jesus character even truly existed

Welp, I can only admit that the entire idea of faith is based on series of axioms, such as:

Jesus actually existed -> he was actually incarnated God -> he lived and died as a human -> he resurrected -> he established Church to maintain his proper teachings

Thus, it's called "faith". Just like with Higgs Bosson or DNA, or bacteria, or damn - electricity. Lack of proves for their existence never stopped them from working. We discovered they were the source of known phenomenons at one point and I hope that God himself (an Absolute - therefore the ultimate source of everything) - if he does exist - will become known to people eventually as well.

>>2169549
>the Bible
>real events

Pick one buddy

>>2170727
Could I get a link for Baal? Sounds interesting.

>>2170812
Yes, this poster has copypasta that he's used on both boards in threads about Christianity and Islam. Likely, it's his job, a poorly paid spam poster. Much like the "PRODDIE BTFO" idiot that was posting here until he was doxxed. Possibly the same guy as this one.

>>2170817
Why are you directing me to a post in which every assertion has been BTFO by
>>2170741

>>2170793
>hurr read all this shit that doesn't refute anything you've said

You're being willfully ignorant, like all Christcucks.

Kill yourself.

>>2170826
It's as real as the holocaust.

>>2170826
It's as real as the holocaust.

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>>2170747
That's some high level heresy you got there.

>>2170826
It's as real as the holocaust.

>>2170775
>*sugar coating* *sugar coating*
Matthew 27:46;

46 ....Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")

Is this the word of a 'God' willing to sacrifice for our sins?

>>2170793
>http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-origin-of-the-universe.html
>http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

A misconception. When they say "beginning" they mean relative to the big bang, as time didn't exist before the big bang. It is widely accepted that matter most likely existed in the "beginning."

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Universe_from_Nothing

I haven't read the book, so I cannot comment on it.

>then all over the universe should be in equilibrium(same temperature, matter, brightness, ect).

How does this follow? That's completely unrelated as time was created at the moment of the big bang. The second law to thermodynamics concerns entropy in a closed system. The universe is not a closed system.

>He exists. Before time and Universe itself. He is, dare I say it, God.

If that makes sense to you, even though there is no evidence, then why do you seem so intent on using flawed arguments and complete misconceptions to say that the same could not be true of the universe.

I now see that you are trying to push an agenda and there could be no arguing with you.

>>2170794
>>2170798

All religions starve to find the Absolute, and all are based on the same desire to know the Creator who rules this all (cause and the goal).

Act 17:22-31 "And Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus, and said, Ye men of Athens, in all things, I perceive that ye are very religious. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. What therefore ye worship in ignorance, this I set forth unto you. The God that made the world and all things therein, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined [their] appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us: for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain even of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man. The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he commandeth men that they should all everywhere repent: inasmuch as he hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

>>2170831
Anon, you're cute. If I can kiss right now, I would. You know uretra about science do you?

>>2170823
Except nobody faults ancient people for not knowing the causes of sickness or the nature of matter as they had neither the tools, means, or the necessity to care to find out.

We exist now. Prove god and people will have no problem believing him. Until then, there's nothing to discuss.

>>2170837
Show me the way, religion created sixteen centuries after Jesus and the Apostoles.

>>2170798

So, can humanity be of central importance in the context of a 14-billion-year-old universe? Yes! Given the laws of physics that God chose to govern the universe, it took 9 billion years to form a planet capable of supporting life and 4.5 billion years to prepare that planet to host humans. Not everyone agrees that Earth represents the only planet capable of supporting human life, but the next few decades of exoplanet exploration will provide a wealth of data that will help to answer this question more definitively.

>>2170842
>not knowing the Holy Trinity, One God, three persons of One essence, distinct yet inseparable.

Yes, because God doesn't act accordingly to Arab theology where "Prophets" (Christ is not a prophet, but thr Messiah and God made flesh) can't die terrible deaths like Crucifixion.

>>2170851
Evidently I know more than you do.

>>2170828
The bible.

Though by "brother" I meant, related to Yahweh in terms of the canaanite pantheon rather than a literal sibling.

Yahweh was jealous of all of the attention the other gods were getting, as a war god he was only praised in times of war. So he decided to start war, mainly against all of the other gods, and not just the ones in the canaanite pantheon. Once he had defeated them he gained worship as nobody worshiped these "false" gods anymore.

The first part of genesis, isn't really even a part of the bible.

>>2170786
>>2170818
>>2170830
No, I assure you, I never posted on /pol/.

Anon... this is what your Bibl- No, this is what your Jesus said. Look, I'm not attacking Jesus. I just trying to show you what Jesus really said.

>>2170853

>nobody faults ancient people for not knowing
Fault for not knowing was living in filth and suffering from various plagues. They had to believe that diseases were caused by something specific, and by the last bigger outbreak of Bubonic Plague they already knew basic methods of controlling and even treating it.

We're at the similar position now - we don't know the exact cause of Everything but we have some means to assume it exists and can be understood. If I confess the faith of the Apostolic Church, I hope that God will openly reveal Himself one day.

Why won't he now? Becuse the burning desire of experiencing the Absolute would bring the end towards all the idea of free will. If people saw God right now, they couldn't resist, and that would be unfair for all those who want to live without God (as I mentioned in my previous posts: hell = lack of God's presence).

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>>2170861
Again look >>2170461

Jesus is a prophet, as John 6:38:
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

The Quran is not in question. Cause I damn well know you won't listen to the Quran. But you do(I hope) listen to Jesus.

>Trinity
Pardon the language, but it's a copy pasta:

http://pastebin.com/d4RUmABN

>>2170886
Again, what is the Holy Trinity.
Are you so arrogant that you cannot believe that God is One yet Christ and the Holy Spirit - Triune? If so, you're admitting God is not all powerful and you're limiting His will. All that simply because we cannot comprehend His mystery. If you truly have questions like what you're posting, then bring it up to an Orthodox priest or Monastic, you'll get your answer then. You're spamming here for money and are insincere, Muslim.

>>2170902
>They had to believe that diseases were caused by something specific

Hmm. I have a choice to ponder the nature of disease, or I could tend the crops to feed my family. Such a difficult choice.

>>2170925
Trinity is an abstract concept. About as abstract as paint in a can, because Catholic faith lead to the causes, not the painting itself, unlike muslim faith, where you have really childish ideas of what hell or heaven, or God are.

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>>2170936
There still were doctors taking care of it, right?

>>2170909
Again, you've been outed both on /pol/ and here, Mohammedian.

I know the Koran is not the Word of God, since Christ is His Word before all creation. The Koran has too many discrepancies to be divine, by far. It points for Christians to use the Gospels, yet says the Gospels are corrupted (not true, as we have the original Greek texts). The Gospels further warn of Islam and Muslim anti-Christs. You are of Ishmael, whom is illegitimate and did not inhereto God's Covenant with Abraham. You are cursed to be warlike and like a wild ass.
Further, Mohammed performed no miracles, unlike prophets of past. A prophet doesn't fuck little girls, nor steal his family members wife for himself, nor bring so crude as to show off his bones unashamedly in front of family for his family's wife whom he later stole and fucked. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Islam being a false religion and Mohamed a false prophet.
Ditch your lies of Christ being simply a prophet, that Mohamed is "greater" than Christ, and that Christ didn't die on the cross. Open a Gospel, and go to a Monastery if you really are curious. Otherwise, stop spamming here.

>>2170956
>Taking care

They were just as uneducated as the general populace. Doctors generally don't invent cures, they just use the cures that the scientists create.

>>2170963
>The Koran has too many discrepancies to be divine

Don't even agree with either side, but the lack of self-awareness here is hilarious.

>>2170946
I'm Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.
That's why the Holy Trinity is but one of the divine mysteries that we can't hope to comprehend.

>>2170971
>Koran is proclaimed the literal word of God
>The Gospels are written by men rightly guided by the Holy Spirit

Oh, I'm self-aware.

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>>2170844
>second law of thermodynamics
The universe is everything. Meaning that outside of the universe is 'nothing'. Thus making it a closed system.

The law stated that entropy increase and increase with time, and stop increasing if it reached equilibrium.

Since you atheist believe that universe exist since forever, so that must mean that it is at equilibrium right now, but this is not the case.

Since right now look way different from the universe at equilibrium(Heat death of the universe).

>>2170963
Yup, you can't contradict shit. This is what your Jesus said. Not my words.

>>2170925
See pastebin in >>2170909

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>>2169446
>he made you
>he doesn't like how he made you lmoa

>>2170980
Obviously not. Most Muslims believe that Mohammad was illiterate and an angel guided his hand in writing the Quran. How can you prove that the gospels were written by the holy spirit as they're so contradictory?

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>>2170925
>>2170963
Ah yes, the good old:
>blasphemy
>you're going to hell
>satan
You Christians can't contradict me. It's in your book. You choose not to see it. You know why? Cause you want to make Jesus your scapegoat. Coward.

I'm going to sleep. I expect more civilized argument against my post. I HOPE THAT'S NOT TOO HARD OF A TASK.

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>>2170967
>They were just as uneducated as the general populace
Could you please educate yourself a bit, anon? A bio of Guy de Chauliac would be a good start.

>Doctors generally don't invent cures, they just use the cures that the scientists create.
Leading doctors of all ages were scientists as well, especially in the Middle Ages. And those scientist-doctors of medieval Europe were able to tell that the fire makes air and surfaces free from bacteria and dog's saliva heals wounds even if they didn't know the idea of disinfection and antibiotics yet.

I say that the Church is in a similar position at the moment. We don't know how exactly the sacraments and specific moral code lead to salvation but we hope to find out eventually.

>>2170981
>Meaning that outside of the universe is 'nothing'.

How do you know that? Show me what exactly "Outside the Universe" is. I've never seen it.

>Thus making it a closed system.

No, it's an open system as there are different energy sources interacting with each other. Actually take the effort to learn the definition you're using before you use them.

>The law stated that entropy increase and increase with time

In a closed system. Which the universe is not.

>Since you atheist believe that universe exist since forever, so that must mean that it is at equilibrium right now

Yet again, you misconceive my words. Tell me what I mean by existed forever. In what manner? There is a word to describe this, can you tell me what it is?

>Since right now look way different from the universe at equilibrium(Heat death of the universe).

Heat death? So you're assuming that the universe has an equilibrium to reach. Explain this. And what does entropy in relation to the universe even mean, I have actually never heard a single physicist say this.

No really, now I'm curious, what is entropy in relation to the universe? Explain something that I've never heard of before.

>>2170461
Galatians: God emptied Himself, became as a Human. This is something you Muslims do not understand. God humbled Himself and experienced all the sufferings of Man. God did this out of Love, for our Salvation. You claim God cannot do this.
>Before Abraham was, I AM.

>>2171043
See
>>2171057

>>2171049
Yeah, you're right about that. Thanks for correcting me. But then you just went full retard.

Doctor - Hey, when we use a dog's saliva, it can heal wounds.

Theist - When we partake of the sacrament, we are saved.

How do you know that? That's a false equivalence. You only know you're saved because you are told you are saved. When you can burn a wound to close it and prevent infection, that can be observed. That seems really dishonest on your part.

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>>2170224
I bet you're a Protestant.

>Your dad loves you
>Do what dad says or he'll spank you, because you're being bad, but eventually forgive you
This is purgatory

Hell is for absolutely unforgivable things, like rape or treachery

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>>2169446
>When you die you get to live in a wonderful paradise instead of suffering on earth
AMAZING I WILL KILL MYSELF RIGHT NOW
>You can't commit suicide though, then you go to hell instead

>>2170223
>there's a big difference between torture and torture

>it's your fault you didn't appease your bully

>>2170793
He exists. Before time and Universe itself. He is, dare I say it, God.

Not that anon, but why is it that God can always have existed, but the universe can't? This is where I always run into trouble whenever I try to become religious.

>>2170224
Revelations is just a christian critique on the fall of rome which they caused but try to pin the blame on some vague evil force.

>>2171071
>rape or treachery
>absolutely unforgivable things

>>2170802
I'll take cosmic background radiation for 400, Alex.

The earliest and most direct observational evidence of the validity of the theory are the expansion of the universe according to Hubble's law (as indicated by the redshifts of galaxies), discovery and measurement of the cosmic microwave background and the relative abundances of light elements produced by Big Bang nucleosynthesis. More recent evidence includes observations of galaxy formation and evolution, and the distribution of large-scale cosmic structures,[65] These are sometimes called the "four pillars" of the Big Bang theory.[66]

>>2170902
>God, the Eternal and Almighty, won't reveal himself because it's not fair to a handful of fedoralords
What

>>2171057
Not him, but:

>I AM
http://www.answering-christianity.com/iam.htm

As for Galatian, look >>2170842. Is he criticized to Himself? No.

Also Trinity, pastebin is there >>2170909.

>>2171069

>That seems really dishonest on your part.
I guess it kinda is. Catholic Church being able to form Western world in a shape of the most liberal, democratic and humanistic (in one word "good") civilisation in history is nothing more than a general trace or a clue. I'm sorry but I don't really have anything more without going into /pol/ territory.

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>>2171071
>purgatory

>>2171112
*crying to Himself

>>2171113
>Catholic Church being able to form Western world in a shape of the most liberal, democratic and humanistic (in one word "good") civilisation in history

Never happened. More catholic revisionism.

That was actually the Greeks.

>>2171073

>>You can't commit suicide though, then you go to hell instead
Leaving the battlefield without permission is called "desertion".

>>2171110
>>God, the Eternal and Almighty, won't reveal himself because it's not fair to a handful of fedoralords
They have no right for freedom of the will?

>>2171049
>We don't know how exactly the sacraments and specific moral code lead to salvation but we hope to find out eventually.
This has to be one of the stupidest things I have read on this board. We need a containment board for all of these christfags.

>>2171079
Not him, but look >>2170981.

>>2171115
>>purgatory
Sorry, prottie, it's in the Bible, 2 Maccabees 12:38-45.

>>2171121
>That was actually the Greeks.
They led the formation of Western civ from their graves?

>>2171124
>Leaving the battlefield without permission is called "desertion".
why does life have to be akin to a battlefield

>They have no right for freedom of the will?
they have the right to be protected from the disaster of their own uninformed choices just like children have the right to protection from the disastrous consequences of their own uninformed choices, as we are all the children of god

a loving god would not let such a pathetically HUMAN conception of the importance of free will get in the way of protecting his creations from suffering

god is a creation of man
free will is a creation of man
men love the concept of free will
thus god loves the concept of free will
because man projects what he wants onto the god he created

>>2169446
>God loves you
>But he shouldn't care about anything you do, no matter what horrible things you've done.
Nope, can't have everything your way, spoilt shit.

>>2171138
That person is spouting pseudoscientific nonsense that the majority of scientists refute

>>2171056
Bruh, scientists said so, that there's nothing outside of the universe. Google it.

If the universe not existed since forever, then it had a beginning. Before beginning it doesn't exist. So outside force must be involved, God.

>entropy(learn about this concept first)
Not him, but as a fellow his, I explained in his place.

>entropy increase over time
>only stop increasing after reached equilibrium
>a universe that exists forever means that it entropy can no longer increase, thus achieving equilibrium.
>but universe right now isn't in equilibrium, which is Heat death.
>thus the universe must have a beginning.

If you ctrl F 'second law' the 'beginning time' link >>2170844, you'll scientists said it.

>>2170835
>>2170836
>>2170840
(You) are not wrong

>>2171112
>Is he criticized to Himself? No.
No, you are criticizing what God did for our Salvation, thus denting Him. It's funny how Muslims can't admit God is all powerful and beyond comprehension.

>>2171149
>why does life have to be akin to a battlefield
Saint Augustine wrote a whole book about it, it's called De Civitate Dei. Long story short, you were born in a warzone, so you can join the "army" (citizens) of the City of God or stay somewhere on the No Man's Land outside its walls.

>>2171149
>their own uninformed choices
They were informed.

>a loving god would not let such a pathetically HUMAN conception of the importance of free will get in the way of protecting his creations from suffering

What I wrote earlier:

>>2170747
>There're known and unknown saints who's left concentrations camps and gulags directly to heaven.
>For those who think this is unfair - you can't have absolute freedom of will without the risk of abandoning goodness (sin). Moreover - God himself not only agreed for that somewhere far away, in Heavens. He personally took this exact same fate. Which started in the era where like 50% of people didn't even survive up to 18 years old, era of occupation and ignorance, and unrest, and ended on a cross - literally one of the most hideous ways to live and die. Not some easygoing, comfy 1st world country of 2000. But one the worst ages to humanity.

>>2171146
>They led the formation of Western civ from their graves?

Yes, because amazingly enough, the shit you write down becomes something people read!

Why is it so difficult to believe unless it comes from your holy book?

>>2171180
WHAT??? ALL SCIENTISTS AGREE THE SECOND LAW. TELL ME YOUR TROLLING. PLEASE!

>>2171112
>Is he crying to Himself?
He's quoting a Psalm, Psalm 21, I believe. Christ is fully God and fully Man, thus Christ in His humanity is crying out as He now feels the suffering and isolation from God as we do in our existence.

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>>2171189
>the shit you write down becomes something people read!
What people? Who was taking care of the books? Who was making copies? Who translated them? Who included it as a basis of their entire philosophy? Who included this philosophy as a basis of their entire religion?

>>2171166
except nearly every description of god given as that you can be forgiven of literally anything you do with the sole exception of denying christ

>>2171185
Anon... There's no need for God to do all that, like this anon said >>2170333.

>god did for our salvation
Now, is "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?" sounds like a 'God' willing to die for our salvation?

Let me hear it. For the life of me, I haven't found a single honest Christian.

>>2171197
Anon... That chapter got NOTHING TO DO with Jesus.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/09/failed-prophecy-psalm-22/

>>2171219
>Now, is "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?" sounds like a 'God' willing to die for our salvation?
Duty before desire.

>>2171186
I didn't ask how life is the way it is, I asked why does it have to be.

How did an finitely powerful god fuck up SO BAD that his creation is now a "warzone".

>They were informed.
no they weren't. you are an explicit liar.

>For those who think this is unfair - you can't have absolute freedom of will without the risk of abandoning goodness (sin).
This is something only a pathetically stupid human would believe. a real existing god would be able to avoid this entirely, because he is literally an all powerful god that exists above and outside of the bounds of logic.

>>2171181
>Bruh, scientists said so, that there's nothing outside of the universe.

My point is that if you need to be told this, you are a complete retard. The only people who claim that something exists outside of the universe are theists like yourself.

>If the universe not existed since forever, then it had a beginning. Of sorts. It seems to me that you've never heard of a singularity. You do know what existed before the big bang, right?

>Before beginning it doesn't exist.

Not true.

>So outside force must be involved, God.

Not two sentences in and you have already made a contradiction.

>Bruh, scientists said so, that there's nothing outside of the universe. Google it.

>If the universe not existed since forever, then it had a beginning. Before beginning it doesn't exist. So outside force must be involved, God.

So which is it?

>>entropy increase over time
>only stop increasing after reached equilibrium
>a universe that exists forever means that it entropy can no longer increase, thus achieving equilibrium.
>but universe right now isn't in equilibrium, which is Heat death.
>thus the universe must have a beginning.

You still haven't explained what this entropy is. That would only apply in a closed system. Why do you seem to think that the universe is a closed system?

>If you ctrl F 'second law' the 'beginning time' link >>2170844 (You), you'll scientists said it.

Yes, but since then that has been refuted. The second law only applies if the universe is a closed system. You must not have been keeping up with cosmology recently, as in the past 15 years.

So you believe the universe is finite, prove it, because that is a claim that runs counter to

http://thecmb.org/

>>2171205
Many people. You must be an idiot to not even recognize Greek influence as the basis from many things from western morality, and modern religious belief to political structure and systems of law and order.

>>2171228
>How did an finitely powerful god fuck up SO BAD that his creation is now a "warzone".
Already answered that earlier in the thread, you just declined it:
>This is something only a pathetically stupid human would believe. a real existing god would be able to avoid this entirely, because he is literally an all powerful god that exists above and outside of the bounds of logic.

Are you asking me for an answer based on logic while declaring God should exist outside of logic both at the same time?

>no they weren't.
Then how do they know to whom tip exactly?

>>2171240
>Who included it as a basis of their entire philosophy?
>Who included this philosophy as a basis of their entire religion?

>>2171240
>Greek influence as the basis from many things from western morality, and modern religious belief to political structure and systems of law and order.

Wow.

>>2171205
>Who included it as a basis of their entire philosophy?
>Who included this philosophy as a basis of their entire religion?

>>2171240
>Greek influence as the basis from many things from western morality, and modern religious belief to political structure and systems of law and order.

Wow.

>>2171227
A person CANNOT complain doing things that he is willing to do(scream in pain is allow, but can't complain). Remember, this is 'God' we're talking about. He has the highest moral.

>>2171259
Look at western society. Sandniggers hadn't given us anything like the Greeks were able to.

>>2171219
Your response with an oped link is not worth responding to.

>>2170844
Dont bother, seen this literal autistic in other threads many times

>>2171264
>A person CANNOT complain doing things that he is willing to do
Why?

>>2171232
Here, since I take it you know about microwave background:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/vilenkins-verdict-all-the-evidence-we-have-says-that-the-universe-had-a-beginning/

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>>2171265

>>2171273
Why do you only post that site?

Hey, if you're eo confident, get a paper published by a philosophy journal! Get the word out!! Why are you here?? Convert the masses!!!!

>>2171266
Yup, knew it.

>>2171270
Did Abraham complain? No. He wept, but don't complain about something that God commands him.

Jesus is greater than Abraham, right? Then he shouldn't complain IF he is indeed willing to die for our sins.

>>2171281
I fucking knew you ain't gonna read shit.

>>2171273
What is it with theists and misconceptions? It's like arguing with a feminist.

There is a singularity, this singularity rapidly expands and creates what we know as the universe, but surprise, the singularity was the universe all along! The implications behind this are that the universe is an ever expanding open system that was "born" from a singularity.

The issue you have is with the english language.

>>2171292
I fail to se logical correlation here. Is complaining something shameful or sinful to you?

>>2171299
Not him, but I read it, and it was actually the same person I was using to disprove you. You just don't understand how semantics works. Technically what they mean by beginning is an event like the big bang wbich isn't really a beginning at all. Popsci shouldn't be a source. You should have used an actual academic source.

>>2171331
>>2171339
>>2171334
I'll reply after I sleep. Thanks for the civilized reply, you're a f a m.

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>>2171377
Have a good sleep, anon.

>>2171219
You know he's not quoting the oldest Psalm, right? He's not using the Septuagint. His argument is flawed based on bad material, the Masoritic text.

>>2171377
Are you autistic? I read your shit in some other fucking thread you spam this shit in. I'm saying if you're autistically confident enough, everyone should already believe your shit and you should be famous. Fuck off

01:00 AM already, so just a quick summary of my today's comments in this thread

>Space and time are one and the same kind of matter
>3D human is just a small section of a 4D time-space being
>In a way, all human deeds are "done"
>Human predestinates himself to whatever actions he takes
>Omnipotent God knew and allowed it, favouring freedom of the will over temporal safety on Earth
>God himself agreed to partake in a system he allowed to create, which ended with a very poor living conditions and - eventually - death on the cross
>People who belong to God will spend eternity contemplating infinite potential of God=Absolute
>People who don't belong to God will spend eternity deprived of such divine presence, forced to face the consequences of goodless existence forever

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>>2171431
Too bad I couldn't find that picture of heavenly gates opened exactly above a chimney of a concentration camp's crematory, it'd be perfect illustration of what I tried to say.

Oh, well. Good night, anons.

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>>2169446

Why is the Christian / Muslim idea of a "God" an angry little child?

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>>2169465
when does poetry stop and rule begin? yes the bible takes a bunch of poetic license, but how are we to decipher God's commandment to his inspired message of his will?

>>2170245
By satan's beard what's that girl cranked on

>>2171218
>nearly every description of god is tailored to my convenience
No.

>>2171735
Why can't anti-theists handle everything not going their way? It's almost like an insult to their childish pride that they can't do whatever they want without repercussions.

The monotheistic faiths aren't the only ones where wrongdoers get punished after death. But anti-theists throw a tantrum because Christian God is 'supposed' to be a doormat deity.

>>2170884
Dude whe/r/e do I read about this.

>>2170925
>mystery

It's called shapeshifting.

Every other god and their incestuous fathers do it. Heck, even demons do it

not impressed

>>2171938
A strawman. I expect nothing less from a christfag. Many of the people you revere in your holy book are not good.

>>2171942
Here is a good start.

https://books.google.com/books?id=qa2AMXzHUAwC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=canaanite+paganism+yahweh&source=bl&ots=SlwEWDS26Q&sig=AFIhEYExnJDDyUDUUcH3cVKbG1M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNyf-mgqXRAhUG3yYKHf3hCmsQ6AEINzAD#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>2169446
i see you dont have kids

>>2171961
A non-argument. I expect nothing less from an edgelord. I'm no Christian, just pointing out juvenility when I see it. You should thank me for doing what your parents failed to do.

>>2171989

You don't seriously threaten your children with torture do you?

>>2171997

Now THAT is not an argument.

>>2171997
You sound like one.

>>2169446
>>If you don't do what God wants, he will send you to a place where you will suffer in eternal pain and agony
counter point: hell is merely the separation from God. A person who lives a sinful life shows that they do not desire God or what He represents, and God, being all loving, allows the sinner to have an eternity without Him, which they clearly desire as shown by their actions in life. Hell has not innate suffering it, is merely a place devoid of God.
However, suffering does occur as the soul, which inherently wishes to be with God, suffers for lack of Him. But this lack of God was freely chosen by the person, with full knowledge of what they did.
>>2169606

>God gave you free will
>God created you knowing exactly what you would do, and exactly what your destiny will be, and he knows everything you've done, are doing, and will do
yes, and? if I put a loaf of bread in front of a starving man I know they'll eat it, that doesn't mean they didn't freely choose to eat it.
>so they're going to sin and go to hell and somehow it's their fault?
it's not a mortal sin if they don't know. this is basic stuff anon, come on.

>>2171384
>>2171387
>>2171331
>>2171334
>>2171339
....
........
............
Damnit, I don't have the energy to deal with you anons today. I'm disgusted at myself, but feel lazy as hell today. I may or may not reply in 14 hours or so. Sorry.

Thanks for the civilized arguments. You're the real MVP.

>>2169446
>>2169446
>>2169446
is picture is from a horsefucker tumblr