So now that the dust has finally settled, what's the verdict /g/?

>what's the verdict

It's free as in freedom (speech) and free as in beer. Could not be better!

It's shit in every possible way.

botnet

>>59322473
It works just fine.

1) takes a lot of autism out of linux configuration
2) makes automation easier because of unified philosophy

>>59322641
Spoken like a lazy, anti-user Arch dev: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html

>>59322559
just because something is free doesn't mean it's not still harmful
systemd is a terminal cancer of the free software world
it's helping to cull a bunch of other terrible shit though, making space for new beautiful things like guixsd
so, though i refuse to touch it, that it exists might not be all bad

A lot better than init scripts

>huge attack vector
>unaudited mess, possible backdoors
>more convenient than sysvinit

>>59322473
>So now that the dust has finally settled
Is this a /v/ maymay?

>>59322473
lets see if CIA has some exploits, then we speack

>1%

>>59322823
>>So now that the dust has finally settled
>Is this a /v/ maymay?
No, it's actually the mission statement from the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

>>59322707
This is sickening.

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systemd was created by an SWJ faggot who works for RedHat, a company that is basically a CIA front. It was forced on all distributions almost overnight.

The arguments against systemd and why it's bad have been posted over and over, yet systemd shills continuously pop up saying no one has provided any arguments against systemd and that Lennart Poettering's cock is small so it doesn't stretch your asshole or hurt too bad while he's fucking you over with a CIA trojan that runs at PID 1.

>>59322707

home users/hobbyists have lost customization options - that I agree with.

But the enterprise users gained fuck loads.

So the question is - should modernization be held back because of legacy thinking? or should we offer users the choice to have init based systems? If so, who will maintain these legacy implementations? Distros made their say - they want to move on - so who will look after this aged code?

>>59322473
systemd is fine
what isn't fine is desktop environments like GNOME requiring it as a dependency because they'd prefer to integrate their de with logind than actually make their shit modular

>>59322473
NSA/systemd

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>>59322473
Just werks.
Welcome to the future.

>>59322707
Yes, the "Arch dev" who posted that was a complete asshat.
What exactly did that retard actually develop, anyways?
Pretty relevent, though. If you actually read the whole thread, it was systemd that triggered him.

>>59322900
Paranoia's a bitch.

>>59322754
Fuck you.

!/bin/sh
exec pgrphack sshd -D -e

Two fucking lines, shill. Systemd still sucks.

>>59322611
CAME HERE FOR THIS

>>59322473

I don't need bloatware. I'd like to follow the Unix way.

Explain like I am a retard why systemd is bad

>>59324165
>I'd like to follow the Unix way
What's the Unix way?

>>59324174
1. it's unauditable, at hundreds of thousands of lines of code
2. it's a large attack surface.
3. system logging is fundamentally flawed, almost broken
4. it has become an underlying dependency for top-level software layers; to forgo shitd is to forgo that software that depends on it
5. it places way too many potential failure cases into what is probably the most critical program in the system
6. what problem is it solving again?
7. bluring userspace with kernel land. MS tried this between 99-03 with kernel32.exe and IIS, and look how that turned out for them
8. because top software layers depend on it, and because it won't work anywhere else but Linux, it effectively shifts entire projects (and desktops) to linux-only, co-opting development for a specific environment
9. why was this needed when there were existing solutions?

>>59324196
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new "features".

Expect the output of every program to become the input to another, as yet unknown, program. Don't clutter output with extraneous information. Avoid stringently columnar or binary input formats. Don't insist on interactive input.

Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early, ideally within weeks. Don't hesitate to throw away the clumsy parts and rebuild them.

Use tools in preference to unskilled help to lighten a programming task, even if you have to detour to build the tools and expect to throw some of them out after you've finished using them.

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>tfw this alphamale forced pulseaudio and systemd on the whole world in seconds

Would you, /g/?

>>59324263
It's a trap. Oh wait...

>>59324263
>what are alsa and OpenRC+s6?

>>59324263
Send Ahmed and Jamal to rape him to death.

>>59322473
Literal cancer and an absolutely massive security flaw.

So we should just use gentoo with openrc, right?

Why didn't Linus say anything? Red Hat stocks?

I've recently learned that microsoft has had significant impact in the rise of systemd.

>>59324351
Linus is absolutely retarded. Just see what he says about literally anything. He's wrong 99.999999999999% of the time. It's a true blessing that he's not developing nor maintaining linux in any way.

>>59324248

The UNIX philosophy is a guideline, not a religion.

Besides, UNIX didn't even follow the philosophy very closely, and later attempts at following the philosophy closer (Plan 9, Inferno) were failures. Their good bits were poached and the rest was left to rot.

>>59323091
Doesn't mean he's wrong.

>>59323091
I have unironically never seen even one (1) argument in favor of systemd. whenever an adopter is asked, they instead resort to calling the asker a "man in the linux community who hates women the most" or a "permavirgin manchild" or something of the sort. The thing closest to an answer was delivered by the KDE project, where they said that because instead of supporting 10 login systems with their native API they now only support 2 using the systemd API, their code is simpler. As anyone can see, this is a trivial fallacy because they could instead have elected to only support these 2 systems using their native API and reduced their code complexity in the exact, or almost exact, same way.

>>59324426
>attempts at following the philosophy closer (Plan 9, Inferno) were failures. Their good bits were poached and the rest was left to rot
Go back and re-read that sentence, and see if you can spot the contradiction.

>>59324501
I always hear something like that >>59322754
>sysv is a huge bash shitmess therefore it's bad

Not qualified to say if it is a solid argument tho

>>59324501
It's an excuse anon. Since systemd was forced on the community places like KDE can adopt it to make things easier for them without sounding like a dick. If they'd simply dropped support for those APIs for no reason we'd have threads REEE'ing at them because it broke some ricer's custom shit. This way systemd takes the hit and KDE stays off the backlash radar.

I'm not saying this justifies systemd, but a forced unified standard is still a standard. Perhaps a replacement systemd (does systemR still exist) will show up as drag & drop alternative one day.

>>59324586
It's a strawman because things like runscript exist, among shittons of other things.

>>59324589
>If they'd simply dropped support for those APIs for no reason
That's literally unironically what they did. Fuck off shill.
>ricers
>using kdshit

>>59324580

There's no contradiction. The "good parts" that I'm referring to, like /proc/ and UTF-8 were bolted onto the same old tired *NIX codebases. Many more features such as the rc shell and sam + acme editors were ported to Linux but are pretty much never used except by hobbyists. And other features, such as notes and filesystem-driven IP sockets, weren't ported at all or have uncommon toy implementations again only used by hobbyists.

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There will come a day when systemd will turn to shit, as all software does.
It will require rewrite from scratch, and on that day the fluidity and creative nature of Linux, the only positive it has over Winodws or OS X,
will be stuck comatose along with systemd because too much shit was forced to rely on it.
On that day, Linux will become an inferior version of Windows.
On that day, i will laugh my ass off.

>>59322473
It's an obvious power move from Potter and his Red Hat cronies.
It has good ideas. It has done good things.

But I won't be surprised if there's a devious reason behind systemd.

Linus says it's ok.

So either systemd is really ok or Linus is compromised.

>>59322473
It's shit and I blame SJW and millenials in general.

>>59322473

Added thousands more exploits to NSA's list and a couple to the list for the script kiddies at the CIA.

Mission accomplished.

>>59322473
it's the botnet that will kill GNU and LINUX as you know them both now.

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>>59324640

You're basically admitting that systemd has good features, you simply don't like that systemd has them. We call that bikeshedding.

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What's the alternative? OpenRC? Do guys got rid of systemd or do you just bitch about it on the internet?

>>59322916
this non-argument is a recurring theme on shilled threads.

plz, cubicle man, leave.

>>59324501
>I have unironically never seen even one (1) argument in favor of systemd. whenever an adopter is asked, they instead resort to calling the asker a "man in the linux community who hates women the most" or a "permavirgin manchild" or something of the sort

This is a lie, anytime anybody actually brings up the dozens of positive points about systemd, they get shouted down by BSD/HobbyLinux shills crying about the fact that their pet init system that already had X or Y feature and it wasn't chosen or how Z feature is actually bad and you should feel bad for wanting it, etc.

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>>59324381
Embrace, extend and extinguish

>>59324501
you should be gassed. systemkike

>>59324911
Most of the time I both praise and bash systemd on the internet

I use Windows. svchost ftw

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Anyone try this? Thoughts? I'm DL'ing now to test as my attempt to replace systemd with openrc manually resulted in failure for me, as I'm still learning.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/

>>59322916
>should we offer users the choice to have init based systems?
Init was not the problem, van Smoorenburg System 5 rc is the problem.

For that matter, the "legacy" Init 2.88 system has been replaced many, many times over.

>>59325063
alpinelinux.org

If you're against systemd you're against FOSS and freedom. You're an asshole, fuck you, seriously.

Make something better yourself and use it. The world has moved on though and so should you.

systemd is here to stay whether you fucking autists like it or not.

>>59325099
>If you're against systemd you're against FOSS and freedom. You're an asshole, fuck you, seriously.

No, I'm not. I support choice. Systemd ironically removes choice.

>Make something better yourself and use it. The world has moved on though and so should you.

I have. I no longer run SysV based rc scripts.

>systemd is here to stay whether you fucking autists like it or not.

So are other solutions. Banging a drum and saying it's "the true one" doesn't help.

>>59325063
what do you prefer about openrc?

good in theory
absolute toxic garbage in practice

>>59324891
t. paid shill

>>59324401
>Linus is absolutely retarded
Fun fact: Linus is Swedish by ethnicity, not Finnish.

Sweden YES.

>>59325110
not the OP you are replying to here,

it's maintained for one.

It supports interfacing with a supervisor for another.

great from a user's perspective

great from a distro maintainer's perspective

great from a basic software developer's perspective

terrible from a system level developer's perspective

>>59325093
>alpinelinux.org
Thanks, anon, will look into. I have a few RPis as well.. might be fun.

>>59325110
>what do you prefer about openrc?
As I said, I'm really new to linux internals, so I really am just lurking trying to learn and understand the controversy. I've heard about openrc, but no of no others. It seems that, for every question I have, 20 new ones emerge.

>>59324784
>Linus says it's ok.
>So either systemd is really ok or Linus is compromised.
Linus says a lot of stupid shit.

>>59324911
OpenRC, Slackware boot

>>59325108

>No, I'm not. I support choice. Systemd ironically removes choice.

Supporting choice for choice sake just creates more work for FOSS developers who could be doing more important with their time.

>>59325270
>Supporting choice for choice sake just creates more work for FOSS developers who could be doing more important with their time.
This, this is why anti-systemd autists make me rage.

I don't want to have to think about init anymore. Poettering has done all the work for us and deserves a lot of praise for his effort. systemd just fucking works, leave it the fuck alone and move on with your life.

Every alternative to systemd is in determent to linux overall.

>>59325135
you have shitty perspectives overall

https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc

>>59325311
are you real?

>>59324263
PÖTTERING!!!!!!!!!

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>Now that the dust has finally settled

>>59325323
nah my opinions > ur opinions

that's objective fact look it up

I win forever (you can't reply to this you've already lost)

>>59325429
/thread
time to go home everybody

>>59325330
Arch is known for screwing its users over in favor of convenience for the devs. As much as I like Arch as a distro, I really fucking hate their faggot devs.

i use systemd on gentoo

FITE ME

>>59325341
It seems to be a pretty common perspective from systemd shills:

>>59325270
>>59325099
>>59322916

The funny thing is if the CIA didn't create systemd, they may as well have. It's the best thing that's ever happened to any group intending to exploit weaknesses in linux.

Turns out that:
- handling devices being hotplugged / not being available / coming offline and going offline
- variable network conditions: interfaces hotplugged, losing wifi links, vpns coming online and offline
- brokering system resources via cgroups
- overseeing security of not only host OS but spawned guest OSes
all at the same time is a complex problem, and init scripts aren't good enough to handle it. Hence systemd.

>>59325639
There are other init systems than systemd and init scripts

>>59325854
And when shit gets complicated, like on mobile devices and laptops, systemd wins.

On a fixed server humming away in a closet, init scripts and openrc are fine.

>>59325639
are you real?

>>59325639
THIS

systemd does ALL of these things and more and yet these fucking BED SHITTERS can't hold their autism for a single minute.

> handling devices being hotplugged / not being available / coming offline and going offline
nothing other than systemd can do this right now

>variable network conditions: interfaces hotplugged, losing wifi links, vpns coming online and offline
what other software can deal with losing wifi links?

>- brokering system resources via cgroups
Nothing out there but systemd can do cgroups shit

>- overseeing security of not only host OS but spawned guest OSes
systemd is basically a bullet proof, explosion proof vault that has been audited 1,000 times by Redhat employees. Fucking bed shitters can't sit still for a minute and give it a chance.

I just use @reboot.

>>59322473
botnet

avoid

>>59324263
my debian stutters for a few seconds now when configuring eth0 reeeeee

>>59325900
are you real?

Its not that bad. I disagree with a lot of design choices and the divergence from the unix philosophy, but in practice I've had no problems related directly to systemd.

>>59322473
I've had less problem with systemd-boot than grub, so I guess it's all right

>>59326052
are you real?

We use init and it's better than systemd.

>>59326052
>Its not that bad. I disagree with a lot of life choices and the divergence from hetrosexuality, but in practice I've had no problems related directly to systemd.
ftfy

>>59326096
so, are you real?

>>59322473
We ran systemd for a while but it was making strange communications to Google, WTF?

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So as someone who has only been actively using linux intensively for the past few months and has the most experience in fedora, what does this whole suspected systemd backdoor mean for me?

Should I refocus my efforts into something else like openrc Manjaro like anon said earlier? Will I run into dependency issues using openrc instead of systemd?

Not a tinfoil hat, just would like to thwart government spying just in principal.

>>59326429
Nothing, don't listen to these bed shitters.

systemd is linux
linux is systemd

just be happy with what you have and work at a higher level than systemd. You're in good hands and Redhat, unlike these MICROSOFT SHILLS in this thread, is a trustworthy FOSS-friendly company.

>>59326381
>We ran systemd for a while but it was making strange communications to Google, WTF?
Yeah despite all the bug reports, they refuse to change the boot up/fallback DNS from 8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4

systemd basically turns every machine into a botnet beacon, it's actually hilarious that only a few people noticed and complained

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1449001

Shows you linux is used by illiterate/incompetent people now. Good reason to move to OpenBSD/FreeBSD.

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>>59326429
>concerned with government spying
>picks fedora

>>59326524

> botnet beacon through default DNS settings

You can't be this fucking stupid, can you?

>>59326536
It was my first major Linux distribution selection since I didn't want to start with babbybuntu.

I still intend to use fedora on my school workstation because the plan right now is to shoot for a career as an enterprise server admin and I want red hat experience.

I do want to replace fedora on my laptop now though.

>>59326569
>You can't be this fucking stupid, can you?

This is how you can tell someone is a systemd shill. They just jump straight to sarcasm and mockery.

>>59326524
You are a retard. That is part of the systemd-networkd.service which most people don't even use to begin with. Not to mention, it's easy as fuck to open the configure.ac file and change it to whatever ip address you want.

>>59326835
Yeah you can get OpenRC working on Arch and Manjaro. However, since you say you're shooting for a career as an enterprise server admin then I'd actually try Devuan. it's Debian 8 Jessie without systemd, in every other aspect it's exactly the same. Debian is something you'll need experience with if you're planning on being a server admin.

>>59322900
>CIA trojan that runs at PID 1
If the CIA manages to replace your init system you are fucked whether it's systemd or sysvinit. This is a stupid fucking argument. All init systems run on PID 1.

>>59326928
I'll check that out thanks

>>59324953
This. these fuckers only read what they want to read, the rest doesn't exists or is a paid shill.

>>59325256
>Linus says a lot of stupid shit
Yeah, like this board doesn't. At least he has some credibility because he actually has programmed something other than fizzbuzz and doesn't parrot what others say.

>>59327503
>fizzbuzz
This is the extent of knowledge possessed by systemd proponents.

>>59327224
>Paid shill
Nice projection!

>>59327460
>parrot
only the systemd shills parrot bruh

cis-gendered white males can't handle that systemd is perfectly fine. they need something to complain about so they don't have to face the reality of their priviledge.

>>59325958

nice try shill

>nothing other than systemd can do this right now
except for all the udev forks and HAL, or netlink and mldev

> what other software can deal with losing wifi links?
wpa_supplicant handles this just fine without notworkmanager

> Nothing out there but systemd can do cgroups shit
only because systemd absorbed an existing cgroups management suite and declared themselves the only userland interface to the feature. nothing is stopping anyone from just using cgroupfs like we did before.

> audited 1,000 times by Redhat employees
this is like saying Dodge makes great cars because the designs are audited 1,000 times by Dodge engineers. it's not fucking true in the first place, and it wouldn't imply quality even if it were. Red Hat employees are retarded. That's why they don't work for a real company.

>>59327600
> Red Hat employees are retarded. That's why they don't work for a real company.

> Revenue: 2.052 billion USD (2016)

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>>59327600
>wpa_supplicant handles this just fine without notworkmanager
>wpa_supplicant
HAHAHA you have to have severe autism to be using that CLI to configure your wifi. What if you have to go to a cafe with a new wifi? Are you going to get your textfile out and edit in the password?

Fucking autists, that's the people opposed to systemd. Just look at this shit.

wpa fucking supplicant.

Go fuck yourself.

>>59327655
>anon, what's wrong with your computer? why are you editing text files from a terminal? did something break?
>no, I'm just connecting to wifi

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>>59327680

>>59327655

or I just use one of like a million guis that talk to wpa_supplicant over its dbus interface

but whatever bud you the man

>>59327595
>priviledge
hmm

>>59327620
its sad how much you missed her point

I use gentoo and Slackware. Fuck SystemD

>>59327895
i use gentoo and systemd. fuck init scripts.

>>59327701
>dbus interface
Another systemd service.

You can't really escape it.

Sysvinit sucks since it doesn't do proper process supervision and it requires a lot of boilerplate just to make a simple script. And it can't do stuff like manage user sessions.

OpenRC is just a hipster's sysvinit with cleaner commands, slightly less boilerplate, and proper dependency sequencing.

Upstart was just a failure from the begiing.

systemd does a lot of useful stuff, but it also does a lot of stuff it doesn't need to do and it's a total pile of bug-riddled cancer.

All I need to write a proper service for runit or s6 is a couple of lines of shell script. And they both do proper dependency management and process supervision., and they can handle user sessions (like systemd --user, not like logind). Why haven't either of these two taken off?

is Red Hat nuMicrosoft

>>59328100
GNU/Microsoft?

>>59328046
I think you may be thinking of sdbus.

>>59322900
So do you have any actual technical arguments or are you just spouting buzzwords you learned on /g/ because the lead developer is a SJW?

So sick of these faggots who come in here from /pol/ with no interest in technology besides political agitation. Fuck off

Systemd is unauditable, probably a plant by intelligence agencies, and will likely be a source for some massive exploits that will get leaked to us decades from now. But it will probably stick around because of institutional reasons.

>>59328695
>Systemd is unauditable
t. expert FizzBuzz auditor

>>59328712
t. expert openssl auditor

>>59328695
> Systemd is unauditable

https://github.com/systemd/systemd

knock yourself out you anti-systemd shill

>>59328731
He can't because he needs documentation to hold his hand first

fucking brainlets

>>59328695
>will likely be a source for some massive exploits
>will likely
That's how I know you're talking out of your ass

people gettin mad about computers itt

>>59328717
Just because you don't understand the code base doesn't mean that it's unauditable you brainlet.

>>59324936
I'm not the guy you were responding to, but don't you have at least some copypasta with a response? Because for me, a simple user who doesn't care too much about inner my distro workings, as long as it works well, the argument seemed pretty solid.

>>59328653
>lead developer is a SJW
So you're ok with that?

>>59329168
Who gives a shit

>>59328653
>do you have any actual technical arguments
And yet you merely postured with an in group/out group appeal in an attempt to invalidate his assertion on the basis of who he might be and not the point he raised. Why do people fall for these sorts of rhetorical tricks? I don't care who you are, I only care if what you're saying is accurate. Think critically people. Certainly the burden of proof is on him, however there is no reason you can't blow him out of the park without him proffering it if what you're saying is true. Provide me with a technical argument for why the CIA isn't doing what he said.

FUCKING AUTISTS
SYSTEMD IS HERE TO STAY
FUCK OFF ALREADY

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It's absolute shit.

I'm Installing Gentoo... on OpenIndiana. GNU ecosystem has turned to cancer.

Anyone who watches turbo-autist Bryan Cantrill interviews/rants will start to get some idea...

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>>59328653
>So do you have any actual technical arguments or are you just spouting buzzwords you learned on /g/ because the lead developer is a SJW?

>>59322473
It works very well for nearly everyone but it means selling your soul to bad design in the long run.

>>59329577
https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2016/10/22/why-i-wont-be-attending-systems-we-love/
I looked for his name and I found this trigglette character assassinating him.

Fucking amazing

>>59322473
In the light of Wikileaks newest release, systemd is a spy tool by CIA

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>>59329682
Right?
I like the idea of my system being an engineered cathedral, not an evolved bazaar.
UNIX is designed, GNU is evolved.

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Sun Microsystems was a truly innovative company which could never quite capture big market share.

Sun engineered products were generally of higher quality than the market average. I'm eyeballing a used Fujitsu SPARC-platform system as my next PC.
I want to get off the Intel/M$+GNU botnet.

>>59328731
Auditing code means fucking security professionals go over it not anon mcdickbutt reading it.

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>>59329744
illumos is the spiritual and mental continuation of OpenSolaris and ultimately Solaris 10 and before. Oracle strangled the Sun assets after acquisition. Oracle is expert at killing anything good and wholesome. When Oracle took OpenSolaris and "re-closed" it, its entire Solaris team walked and joined the OpenSolaris community (which renamed to illumos).

Illumos has native ZFS compatibility, DTrace, Zones, KVM, lx-zones which are BINARY COMPATIBLE with Linux, and I'm going to start work on getting Gentoo Prefix running on it, and it's the true heir to the Sun Solaris legacy. It is better engineered than the GNU kernel and userland ecosystem.

>>59329752
Shhh don't trigger the SystemdJW with facts

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This woman in linux is a systemd enforcer.

She will not take no as an answer.

So many pro-systemd manlets ITT triggered by systemd criticism.
Did you manlets meet your "language gender neutralization" commits so far this week?

Is there alt. to GNU/Linux and MS/DOS

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>>59329842
<== PIC RELATED

>>59329838
anyone with hair like that is a globalist

>>59322777
> Comparing Systemd to init scripts.
> Not comparing it to its actual competitors like Upstart and OpenRC

It's like saying that your new tractor is better than a horse.

>>59322941
But GNOME did that in order to push Systemd.
The politics around the system is a real reason to hate that fucking piece of shit.

>>59326170
I'm too high and reading you keep asking him if he's real is freaking me out, What the fuck is going on.

>>59322473
like all poetteringware, it's a great idea with a solid base and a lot of cool features, all of which won't be developed to reach a stable state and once the hype will break down, will break all the time.
We've seen this before with *everything* else this guy started.
It makes an attack target the size of a football field.
Reduced to it's basics, it's neat, though.

>>59329933
GNOME women

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY2Mjc

>"The Outreach Program for Women (OPW) helps women (cis and trans) and genderqueer get involved in free and open source software."

So if you're wondering why Linux died, it's because of SJWs. I'm not kidding.

The hilarious thing is most nerds are such cucks they don't want to make waves so they keep eating this shit instead.

>>59329998
>People with dicks are women
i hate this world

>>59329998
The thing that I really, really, REALLY hate about this sort of shit, is that it doesn't bring in women.
As in, they goal is not to recruit women that might be interested, or just needed a little push to give it a go and find that they love it or anything like that. No.

The goal is not at all to find these women who could be great addition to the workforce.(Wouldn't you love it if the mouthbreathing retards on your team got replaced by someone who knew what a nose was for?)

The goal is to find SJW/Feminist women. That's the plot. These women then go in and make the entire atmosphere toxic as fuck. They'll squeeze out the women who were already there, or convert them. They'll make the men hate working with women. And they'll poison everything they touch.

And they keep getting away with it because muh-women.

File: randi-harper-vs-friends-and-everyone-else-header.jpg (29KB, 560x293px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59329838
This woman is a proud defender against the menace of systemd and champion of the UNIX way

>>59329998
Also, most of my friends who are nerds are either full-on shitlords or supercucks.

There's very few in the middle.

It's interesting to see how insane this shit is getting. And I wonder how far it will go before things start to crash and burn.

File: semen_demon.png (671KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

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If you use a Linux distro that uses systemd, then you're being used by the CIA.

>>59330129
Nice one systemdildo, but she is no longer associated with FreeBSD and everyone there hated her.

>>59330122
>>59330138
This stuff is interesting on its own so I started a digging thread on this subject >>59330139

Why don't you just migrate to OpenBSD? Or FreeBSD if you want something more Linux-like

>>59330383
Can I run Minecraft on OpenBSD?

>>59330900
It has jre, so maybe.

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd. It's all just scare tactics being used by the CIA to make you distrust Linux based operating systems.

>>59331020
Why is none of the arguments valid?

>>59331060
That's not how burden of evidence works retard. If you think you have a valid point the burden of evidence is on you to prove it, not on me to disprove it.

Fucking retards asking others to prove a negative...

>>59330146
Are you sure that cia isn't a force of good tho

>>59331071
You're saying that there are no valid arguments.
That's a positive statements you mong.

>>59331095
The default state for any intelligent person who follows the scientific method should be skepticism. In this case, you are adding additional complexity by making the claim that there is a valid argument against systemd. Unless you can provide evidence of this claim, nobody has any reason to believe you.

>tfw explaining elementary school level science concepts to CIA nigger

>>59322754
>lets add yet another layer of shitty software to hide yet more shitty scripting
>systemd is the future!

What did they mean by this?

>>59331095
>no valid
>positive
Wtf are you retarded?

>>59329285
>Provide me with a technical argument for why the CIA isn't doing what he said.
Provide me with a technical argument for why there isn't an undetectable teapot orbiting the sun between Mars and Earth.

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

>>59331179
> Arguments happen
> None of these arguments are valid!
> Why?
> I don't have to justify my claims because I'm employed by the state and I'm too busy sorting my folder of sassy cat pictures.

Fuck off.

>>59331235
> for each and every element in this small, finite set of arguments, it holds that the argument is invalid.

Yes, the burden is on Mr. Langley to demonstrate how each and every one of the arguments are invalid.

>>59331309
>each and every one of the arguments
Why don't you provide an actual argument then, so that I can show you what a collosal retard you are.

Oh wait you cant. You can only pretend that such arguments exist.

>>59331250
>Provide me with a technical argument for why there isn't an undetectable teapot orbiting the sun between Mars and Earth.
If I made the claim that the space was safe from tea pots I might have to. So are you admitting you have nothing? Is systemd secure from CIA tampering or not? How do you know? In technical terms.

>>59331358
That's not how burden of evidence works retard. You are making the claim that systemd has a security vulnerability. You have to provide evidence of that claim. The person who is skeptical of that claim doesn't have to prove shit.

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

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literally doesn't matter what happens at that point.

all your UEFIs are persistent file botneted and you can't do a damn thing.

>>59331379
So you want to deflect because you have nothing. That's answer enough for me.

>>59331398
No, I am demanding that you obey the scientific method you fucking degenerate

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

CIA niggers be all like
>yeah there is. I'm just too busy shitposting to tell you what they are
>hurr... prove there isn't (asking someone to prove a negative is a rational thing to do!)

>>59326874
Because you have no fucking proof. What else did expect? Buttsex? Ask OSX users.

>>59326381
Yeah, sorry, your DNS that is down 50% of the time wasn't chosen to be used by default.

>>59326381

systemctl stop systemd-networkd
systemctl start NetworkManager
systemctl disable systemd-networkd
systemctl enable NetworkManager

>>59331250
>Provide me with a technical argument for why the CIA isn't doing what he said
/pol/ is retarded, asking people to prove a negative

kys

>>59329168
Only a /pol/tard gives a shit

>>59327655
>he doesn't connect to wifi with wpa_supplicant
it's actually really easy and quick and you're just a giant faggot aren't you

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

>>59329185
>>59331873
If he was found to be supporting Anti-LGBTQ he would be tar and feathered then run out of town

>>59330122
>The goal is to find SJW/Feminist women. That's the plot.
It's a racket.

>>59322473
systemd
I'd rather they keep their d out of my system, if you know what i mean.

Reminder that there is no valid reason to use systemd.

>>59322473
It's really good

You should use it

t. CIA

>>59336143
If it comes by default and you can't give an valid criticism against it, then I see no reason why I should go out of my way to avoid it.

Systemd = botnet.

>>59336193
Provide evidence

>>59336205
No one can, either way, which is exactly the flaw with systemd

It's too big to audit

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

CIA niggers be all like
>yeah there is. I'm just too busy shitposting to tell you what they are
>hurr... prove there isn't (asking someone to prove a negative is a rational thing to do!)

>>59324263

>forced

how?

Evidence that systemd sucks:

http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd

Is it worth it to use openrc in Arch? Does it werk?

>>59336218
>No one can
If you cannot provide evidence of your claims then you should fuck off until you have evidence.

>too big to audit
No it isn't. It's only about 300k lines of code. How much of a fucking retard can you be?
https://github.com/systemd
Knock yourself out CIA niggers

A myriad of valid criticisms of systemd:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

>>59336252
Those are all very subjective. Give me a technical reason why I should not be using systemd or shut the fuck up

File: poettering.png (210KB, 512x384px) Image search: [Google]

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Just last week:

>for reasons known only to poettering, systemd loads shared libraries when something is started or stopped
>apt-get upgrade
>reboot
>apparently execve(argv[0]) too of a mythical concept for systemd
>systemd loads updated .so, segfaults, kernel panic
>disk cache didn't get fully flushed so I end up with corrupted mid-system tree filesystem and it wont boot again

Thanks systemd!

Seriously tho: Too much spooky action at a distance in a subsystem too important to accomodate fancy abstractions. While configuration may be simpler for end user, the internal system grew tremendenously. Overall, a lot of Win32 feel - systemd violates unix principle of do one thing and do it well. it does many things, poorly.

The most annoying part is the post mortems troubleshooting *why* it fails so spectacularly now and then, because debugging systemd internals on live system is extremely awkward (gdb pid 1, I dare you).

>>59336258
>moving the goalposts
how about you shut the fuck up lennart?

>>59336269
Literally made up bullshit

>>59336251
>evidence
People post evidence that systemd sucks and is a botnet all the time, as well as 100% valid criticisms of it. The systemd shills just scream in autistic rage when this happens, and because systemd shills can't respond to criticism, they just repeat the mantra that "there is no evidence" and "there is not one valid criticism" which is funny but also a bit sad.

>>59336276
That's not moving goalposts. I've been demanding evidence of something objectively wrong with systemd from the beginning. You are very intent on avoiding any kind of evidence of your claims that it is a botnet or in any way technically flawed.

>>59336282
>People post evidence that systemd sucks and is a botnet all the time, as well as 100% valid criticisms of it.
Great! Then you shouldn't have any problems providing an example. Go on... I'm waiting

>>59336277
Should you be putting more government backdoors into your shitware Lennart? Stop bothering us on /g/ and get back to your STASI job.

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

CIA niggers be all like
>yeah there is. I'm just too busy shitposting to tell you what they are
>hurr... prove there isn't (asking someone to prove a negative is a rational thing to do!)
>No you're a CIA nigger!

>>59336291
>>59336252
>>59336233
You simply ignore everything you don't like.

I hope you know your attitude is redpilling other people on systemd - why does such great software need to be constantly shilled by angry retards with middling English skills if it stands on its own merit?

>>59336314
Yes, I looked at those links, but I still don't see any valid criticism. Why don't you copy and paste the parts that you think are valid criticism and I will demonstrate how much of a fucking retard you are.

>>59334270
Good

>>59336269
It didn't happen for the first time either.

Last segfault was this: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=780675 caused by self-dependent unit.

It's just the same story over and over - something breaks spectacularly, and it's neigh impossible to debug unless you're a programmer. At best some services don't launch and its nowhere seen why. At worst, the system panics.

>>59336379
>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=780675
That's a 2 year old bug report which has been marked as "fixed upstream"

>>59322978
>not calle

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

CIA niggers be all like
>yeah there is. I'm just too busy shitposting to tell you what they are
>hurr... prove there isn't (asking someone to prove a negative is a rational thing to do!)
>No you're a CIA nigger!

>>59325108
>I support choice.
Choices only make software development and maintenance harder.

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>>59336417
The dlopen segfault isn't technically systemd problem, but consequence of being mid-update. pid 1 is supposed to be self-contained with *no* external dependencies once running - and ton of shit still subtly assumes that is still the case.

But why I'm sperging? You're just another baiting archfag, who reinstalls the box whenever it breaks, never really trying to figure out what went wrong.

>>59326429
install gentoo
really

File: varg.jpg (132KB, 762x464px) Image search: [Google]

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Stop using SystemD.

>>59336561
>You're just another baiting archfag, who reinstalls the box whenever it breaks, never really trying to figure out what went wrong.
I have never had to reinstall Arch (other than when setting up dmcrypt+luks)

Look, if you're really that buttmad about systemd running on PID 1, you can do what I've already told you multiple times in previous posts and run sysvinit on PID 1. RTFM

For compatibility with SysV, if systemd is called as init and a PID that is not 1, it will execute telinit and pass all command line arguments unmodified.

That way you can still leverage the rest of what systemd does and this "problem" you percieve ceases to exist.

pozhole for the NSA and CIA

>>59325639
They are actually easy if you use 9P and notify.

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>>59330383
sorry for a fuckton degree of dumb question which exceeds the levels of monads of stupidity

but what's the deal with system_d?

Tails has it. So should one change the core to gentoo level shit or take the openbsd as an option?

this is type journal level of security not a major serverhost one

sys VI init when?

Reminder that this thread does not contain a single valid criticism against systemd.

CIA niggers be all like
>yeah there is. I'm just too busy shitposting to tell you what they are
>hurr... prove there isn't (asking someone to prove a negative is a rational thing to do!)
>No you're a CIA nigger!

Every time one of the criticisms of systemd is refuted, the anti-systemd shills just ignore it, wait until the comment has less visibility, and then make the same bullshit argument again.

>>59336818
http://skarnet.org/software/s6/

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>mfw using systemd on Gentoo
love it

>>59336324
You think they're paying you to shill but they're just paying you to get all made and look like a fool.

Keep redpilling people on how systemd is a botnet with your inept autism though.

>>59336952
Well how the fuck you explain the startup routing to Google's DNS servers?

It certainly doesn't exactly cover the whole control of your .deb/pacman/rpm packages, but has as great indication that some level of your data is transsferred to the atlantic security services that is NSA,CIA,FBI, and all the other places that deal with the data provided by FB,Google and MS etc

>>59334270
> these people act as retards so it's okay for me to act as a retard
> me acting as a retard is actually good for humanity
Sure thing buddy.

>>59325127
I can tell from your post that you're new. That's not what OP means. try to lurk moar

File: TerryCIANigger.jpg (193KB, 802x854px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59336977
>love it
WTF is wrong with you dickloving CIA cucks?!

>>59337035
This has been addressed several times already. This is specifically part of the systemd-networkd.service which most people do not use to begin with. If you do notice that it is enabled and you would prefer not to use Google's DNS servers (protip: most people actually do prefer their DNS) then you can follow the extremely simple instructions here >>59331713
>systemctl stop systemd-networkd
>systemctl start NetworkManager
>systemctl disable systemd-networkd
>systemctl enable NetworkManager

>>59337265
The shilling they do is so obvious, don't they understand that such low-grade astroturfing is actually redpilling the masses?

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>>59336952
We will never stop fighting the b0rg. Our cry will continue forever in your ear. We cannot be squelched, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!ing from our OpenRC caverns in the mountains.

>>59337284
Oh yeah, and the DNS server can be easily configured by editing the configure.ac file.
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/configure.ac#L1256

>>59337308
the fact that they're hiding the google botnet in there in the first place is worrysome

File: eviljew.png (80KB, 662x858px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59337298
No, they don't. That's what's so great! All we have to do is prod and they go to work for us!
They demonstrate to anybody who just had their day fucked up by it, that maybe what the systemJew is serving isn't really all that kosher...

>>59337332
>hiding
>in a configure file
How retarded can you possibly be? Like I already said, the vast majority of people would prefer Google's DNS over other options. You are free to change it to whatever you want, or simply choose not to use the networkd service at all (I don't, personally)

>>59337284
>systemd-networkd.service
>which most people do not use to begin with.
What? Isn't it exactly what in most pc's establish the connection.

The question is why is even implemented so that there might be a serious leakage is the question

Of course it can be circumnavigated by an external program likewise by installing a another option which doesn't have that property to begin with.

Such a core application in most of the computers for personal and enterprise work seems to indeed have tha MS tier unexplained way of transferring bits to some "see if somebody is out there"-level of watching which is clearly enforced by certain agencies for numerous of reasons.

It's very hard now to seeit otherwise honestly. It's sad how the whole modern culture is compromised by the great levels of big bugging brother.

>>59337370
>No, they don't. That's what's so great! All we have to do is prod and they go to work for us!
Yeah I think they constantly check every thread for mention of Poettering and systemd and then go on the attack. They are so easily baited.

>They demonstrate to anybody who just had their day fucked up by it, that maybe what the systemJew is serving isn't really all that kosher...
THIS

>>59337396
>the vast majority of people would prefer
typical systemd shill, telling everybody that what's forced upon them is what they want anyway

no we don't want google botnet hard-wired into our init system, if dns fails you fucking print a useful message, you don't secretly hook the poor users up to the botnet for their convenience

this is why systemd is doomed to fail in the long run, hubris

The systemd developers are making it harder and harder to not run on systemd. Even if Debian supports not using systemd, the rest of the Linux ecosystem is moving to systemd so it will become increasingly infeasible as time runs on.

By merging in other crucial projects and taking over certain functionality, they are making it more difficult for other init systems to exist. For example, udev is part of systemd now. People are worried that in a little while, udev won’t work without systemd. Kinda hard to sell other init systems that don’t have dynamic device detection.

The concern isn’t that systemd itself isn’t following the UNIX philosophy. What’s troubling is that the systemd team is dragging in other projects or functionality, and aggressively integrating them. When those projects or functions become only available through systemd, it doesn’t matter if you can install other init systems, because they will be trash without those features.

An example, suppose a project ships with systemd timer files to handle some periodic activity. You now need systemd or some shim, or to port those periodic events to cron. Insert any other systemd unit file in this example, and it’s a problem.

>in b4 a CIA shill replies with "no one will post a single valid criticism of systemd"

>>59336282
>People post evidence that systemd sucks and is a botnet all the time, as well as 100% valid criticisms of it.
There's literally no possible valid criticism of systemd. It's perfect.

Poettering is a coding GOD.

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>>59337475
>Debian supports not using systemd
I'm a Debian fag running without systemd (I use sysv init) and they are making this harder and harder. There is a small note in the Debian install docs on how to install it without systemd, but many applications require it and you'll have to manually prevent systemd from being resolved as a dependency.

At this time there is a systemd shim program which helps systemd-dependent applications run on non-systemd systems, but as systemd is under such heavy development it's an arms race to keep it working.

I just installed FreeBSD on my spare Thinkpad, everything works out of box. Linux had its time in the sun.

>>59337463
>The question is why is even implemented so that there might be a serious leakage is the question
It's implemented because it's fast and isn't as shitty as the DNS your ISP probably wants you to hit. Only a tiny fraction of users will give any shits about this. You are an edge case. Get over it.

>What? Isn't it exactly what in most pc's establish the connection.
No. Most distros use NetworkManager, and most people who don't use NetworkManager use Wicd.

>>59337466
>forced upon them
>hurr I'm too retarded to edit a config file or turn off a service that has nothing to do with systemd's core functionality

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>>59337396
Holee shit!
You are making our arguments for us now!
>It's not a bug, goy!
>It's a feature, we swear! :^D

>>59337551
>I just installed FreeBSD on my spare Thinkpad, everything works out of box. Linux had its time in the sun.

Is there some iso that comes with a DE and some essentials?

>>59337564
>doesn't know how to use a text editor to change a config file to support his special snowflake demands
Why are you even on /g/?

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>>59337587
Because I was too edgy for 8/pol/.

anti-system'd shill's entire argument boils down to
>but I shouldn't have to change a config file to get the behavior I want
>the default behavior should be the way I want it, not the way the majority want it

>>59337559
This very well might be that case.

Raises some worries though, for every cycle of better transistors and networking systems there is the same degree of work to the ways to actually have some level of control for normal citizens. In extreme cases the absolute ability to control and see what you seek and look for. In milder cases just the vast personal information and the advertisements tailored for that.

>>59336664
Your suggestion is akin "dont like windows? just run linux in vmware, mang!

When running with sysv init, there's no point of using systemd in the first place.

I hope it's obvious that I'm forced into using systemd (as in, init=/usr/lib/systemd) because jerb. It is trivial to simply remove systemd completely (on debian, at this time), which is what I do whenever possible.

However sysv compat or pure sysv it is now considered non-standard legacy configuration.

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>>59337582
>Is there some iso that comes with a DE and some essentials?
Yeah PCBSD is just FreeBSD with a normie-friendly installer and it comes all set up with X, your browsers, office stuff, etc. like any Linux distro.

It also has a friendly graphical update utility and package manager.

>>59337626
No it boils down to one component exerting too much control over the entire system and offering nothing but opaqueness and a large attack surface in return.

>>59337559
>>hurr I'm too retarded to edit a config file or turn off a service that has nothing to do with systemd's core functionality
Who even expects their init system to be doing shit like this?

Do I have to read the config file to turn off the data exfiltration and root shell backdoor features too? Why's this shit in there in the first place?

An init system should report that DNS isn't working, it shouldn't just slip the Google DNS in through the back door.

The only people the systemd developers had to convince to get it widely adopted were the distro maintainers and the developers of a few key software projects. The distro maintainers made systemd at least an optional (if not outright default) init system, since it (1) promised to eliminate a series of init-related problems, and (2) other critical pieces of low-level userspace functionality like udev were getting merged into systemd's codebase anyway. In theory, systemd would reduce their maintenance burden, giving them an incentive to encourage their users to adopt it.

Making it an optional or default init system wasn't enough to spur its rapid adoption, however. What helped solidify systemd's hold was a few key developers making their software depend on it to work. For example, you can't run GNOME without systemd these days, and KDE is not far behind. Other previously-unrelated daemons like upower now require systemd to work correctly. So, users who want a working desktop pretty much have to use systemd now, even if they don't have an opinion on it, or even if they want a desktop more than they want to steer clear of it.

This has created a lot of frustration within the user community. There are plenty of users who do not want systemd, but now have to either (1) go without a working desktop to do so, or (2) fork the relevant parts of the ecosystem that depend on systemd and make them so that they don't. This is exacerbated by author of systemd openly advocating that GNOME depend on it (helping to create this dilemma), having a reputation for breaking the Linux sound system (making people wonder if the same will happen to init), having a reputation for not taking criticism well, and increasingly having a reputation of being deceitful about his intentions for systemd's role in the ecosystem.

>>59337702
contd.

Systemd's design has also created a lot of frustration with power users and developers. While it is all well and good that every developer should maintain his/her code in the way he/she sees fit, there are two important design decisions in systemd that have questionable technical merit but have non-trivial social and political consequences for the ecosystem. First, the author of systemd has repeatedly stated that systemd will not be portable, and will reject patches from those who would make it work. This effectively locks people into Linux if they need to use software that depends on systemd, even if the software doesn't otherwise require Linux-specific features. Second, the author of systemd has publicly stated that the interfaces between the systemd components will remain unstable and undocumented for the foreseeable future. This makes the creation of alternatives to systemd components difficult, since developers have to first study the large systemd codebase to even figure out how to begin, and will need to ensure their alternatives are compatible with every version of systemd if they are to gain adoption.

>>59337719
contd.

Combined, these two design decisions ensure that it will be very costly and time-consuming for developers to implement alternatives, short of rewriting the whole systemd from scratch. Any work they do to address their problems with systemd can be easily undermined by the systemd author (who doesn't particularly care for alternatives). What is particularly demoralizing about this situation is that there isn't a clear technical reason why systemd had to be designed this way--it could have been written in a portable fashion (or, people would step up and make it portable if the author would accept their work), and its components could have been designed to have stable internal interfaces, so replacing parts of systemd piecemeal would be feasible. The only perceived gains from these design decisions is that the systemd author can artificially make it too costly to compete against it, leading to frustration and controversy.

File: debian-ian-murdock-died.png (238KB, 728x380px) Image search: [Google]

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Daily reminder that the only way systemd got into Debian was by murder.

>>59337750
runit's pretty good

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>>59337626
It boils down to safety/security first.
When things are misconfigured or have an error, they need to break and not continue silently with user-unintended functi...
... oh who am I kidding. Brad McNormie doesn't give a shit and types every URL into the Google search box anyway to browse the net. We're all fucking doomed because Brad McNormie has become the target audience.

It's time for /tech/-masterrace to detach from /g/NU and get drivers working in the *BSDs and illumos. Let Brad McNormie have the Bazaar-model garbage, I WANT MY FINELY ENGINEERED SOLARIS CATHEDRAL!

>>59337702
>init-related problems
Am I the only one who never had these problems? Init ticked away for me for many years in the background, doing what it did and on minimal resources as well.

My suspicion is that this systemd garbage all comes from phone companies who want their phones and tablets and Chromebooks to boot faster. The spyware is a nice feature too.

>>59337680
It's not called PC-BSD anymore, but TrueOS.

>>59337814
>slowaris
Nigguh, you had just mentioned the correct option in the same line

                ,        ,         
               /(        )`        
               \ \___   / |        
               /- _  `-/  '        
              (/\/ \ \   /\        
              / /   | `    \       
              O O   ) /    |       
              `-^--'`<     '       
             (_.)  _  )   /        
              `.___/`    /         
FreeBSD         `-----' /          
   <----.     __ / __   \          
   <----|====O)))==) \) /====|      
   <----'    `--' `.__,' \         
                |        |         
                 \       /       /\
            ______( (_  / \______/ 
          ,'  ,-----'   |          
          `--{__________)          

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>>59337856
Oh, thanks anon. I like installing FreeBSD and building up my DE from scratch but the pre-made normie friendly desktop distro idea for FreeBSD is great and should have been made in the 90s.

There are 3 main groups of systemd haters, and they all have valid critcisms:

People who don't like the fact that systemd has massive scope creep. Specifically that it tries to reimplement many existing services instead of improving / integrating existing ones. For example user switching, network management, logging, etc.

People who don't like the idea of everything relying on systemd interfaces to work at all. For example gnome started to rely on logind and other services even though it technically didn't need to.

People who don't like the management of the project. Lennart can be a dick to people with different opinions. He also created many interesting projects which were both a bit complex and pushed before they were ready. (like pulseaudio, packagekit) Since they were forced on people via popular distros, pulseaudio became "the thing that's always broken" for a year or so. And since Lennart was the author, he became a person who breaks the system.

>in b4 a CIA shill replies with "no one will post a single valid criticism of systemd"

>>59337666
>When running with sysv init, there's no point of using systemd in the first place.
That's not true. If you read the first fucking line of the description of systemd in the man page you would know that.
>systemd is a system and service manager
>system and service manager
So you don't like the service manager part of it? Fine. Don't use it. Use the system manager part of it by itself. This isn't complicated.

>>59337695
>Who even expects their init system to be doing shit like this?
That isn't part of the init system you fucking retard. That's the network service.

>>59337814
Most people don't feel the need to walk around with a full suit of tin foil on. Google is what most people prefer for their DNS, whether you like it or not.
>hurr I can't use a web browser because the default search engine is google

>>59337914
>scope creep
That's a completely subjective point. Most people would rather learn to use one tool than a multiple different pieces of software for each of the components that systemd replaces (you had to learn different versions of software for each of those components due to widely varying differences between distros)

>People who don't like the idea of everything relying on systemd interfaces to work at all. For example gnome started to rely on logind and other services even though it technically didn't need to.
Sounds like you have a problem with Gnome. Maybe you shouldn't use Gnome. You also haven't demonstrated how that behavior is bad.

>Lennart can be a dick to people with different opinions
>muh poettering maymay
>pulseaudio is bad maymay

>>59337777
nice false flag systemd nigger

Ian Murdock was no longer on the project after his wife divorced him and debian "wymen" took over the project

His "suicide" is suspicious though.

http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/

For the CIAniggers who keep claiming "no technical arguments against sytemd exists."

http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/

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>>59337957
>>hurr I can't use a web browser because the default search engine is google
No you dumbnigger, I mean
>go to google.com
>type crazyshit.com
>click search
>click returned result
Do you realize how common Brad McNormie is?

>>59338018
Also http://ewontfix.com/14/

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>>59337777
Yes, they Murdocked Ian in order to get Debian to take the -d.

>>59337957
>That isn't part of the init system you fucking retard. That's the network service.
Yet

>>59337914
>pulseaudio
Oh shit that faggot made pulseaudio too?

Holy crap, it's all falling into place now.

>>59337957
>the network service
who gives a shit, you're splitting hairs now

>>59338107
>yet
You are a retard. The init system only runs services. The systemd-networkd.service is one of the services which you can run with the init system built in to systemd. You do not have to, but you can. Most distros do not utilize it.
>>59338131
>you're splitting hairs now
Not really. You have full control over what services files are executed by the init system. You are just too fucking autistic to admit that you made a big stink over literally nothing.

>>59338050
You completely misunderstood what I was communicating you idiot. The argument that it is bad that the network service defaults to Google for DNS is just as bad as the argument that web browsers are bad if they default to Google as the default search engine. It's something you have full ability to configure and we all know that the average person has preferences which do not line up with yours. Edit the config file or disable the service and then shut the fuck up already

>>59338164
>You completely misunderstood what I was communicating you idiot
He even types like Lennart.

Fucking hell, they sent Lennart himself to damage control for his tortured creation.

>>59338178
so what you are saying is that you don't have any valid criticism, so you have to resort to baseless accusations.

>hurr... someone was mean to me on the four chenz. obviously it's poettering

>>59329842
BSD

>>59338018
I'm not going to read your pages of propaganda. Why don't you summarize the key points so that I can demonstrate how much of a fucking retard you are?

>>59338077
This has already been addressed multiple times within this thread. Just because you ignored my rebuttal, that doesn't make your bullshit argument a good one.

>>59338245
>read the articles for me and spoon-feed me the points

This is the problem with /g/ today and why retards happily slurp up Poettering's cum and stick a CIA backdoor up their anus.

>>59338292
If you care strongly enough about this issue to sit here shitposting for hours every day, then yes; it is your responsibility to spoonfeed the information to others if you want them to give any shits or take you seriously at all.

>>59337582
1. log on as root
pkg install
- x system (google freebsd desktop for whatever dependencies)
- gnome / i3 / kde / whatever u want
- profit?

>>59338164
>You have full control over what services files are executed by the init system.
It's a hairy mess and when it fails it fails way harder than init.

Sorry, why add such an enormous complicated piece of shitware to what is intended to be a reliable functional system?

Systemd doesn't make sense unless you want to spy on people.

>>59338178
He fucking hangs out here all the time actually, and has complained about /g/ on mailing lists and shit before.

You can recognize his ass-hurt signature instantly in the posts he makes.

It's really quite sad.

He's obviously from STASI stock, the sneaky little shit.

>>59338305
This.

It's not our responsibility to read multiple pages of text just because you insist that we should. If you have a legitimate point to bring up, then do it. If not, then fuck off with your shitty links. If you can't even summarize what the issue is, that tells me you haven't even read your own link.

Very real disadvantages of systemd:

1. systemd is tied to a specific kernel and a specific libc and specific device manager and specific journaling daemon, basically, having systemd means you're locked in to a whole lot of other things.
2. systemd is renowned for locking up during startup and boot when you have network filesystems.
3. systemd hardcodes quite a lot of the booting and shutdown process in C which other systems place in easily editable scripts.
4. systemd in practice requires quite a lot of things: ACLs, PAM, dbus, polkit, these are not hard requirements but without this the above advantages are lost so all distributions enable them at compile time.
5. logind starting to do retarded shit like user sessions and having retarded power management, in theory you can disable logind, but no distribution again does this.
6. systemd is very monolithic and comes in one configuration compared to being able to piece your system together yourself.

>in b4 i don't care, lennart's dick just tastes soooo good. plz lennart, cum on my face

>>59322473

Its a nightmare considering the cia revelations. This cluster fuck is exactly the kind of thing they would exploit. No reason to group all this shit together making it harder to maintain. Hard to keep bugs and exploits out of.

>>59338355
>when it fails it fails way harder than init
[citation needed]

>enormous complicated piece of shit software
purely subjective poin. literally meaningless to anyone other than you.

>Systemd doesn't make sense unless you want to spy on people
Great. Then you should be able to explain exactly how systemd can be used to spy on people. I'm waiting.

>>59338374
Those are only disadvantages if you want to use incompabitlbe kernel/libc/journaling daemon, etc.. The vast majority of Linux users do not

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>>59338388

>>59322900
Trigger word does trigger word to said trigger entity to create trigger condition.

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"SystemD is an "Init" "Program""

>>59338374
7. systemd appropriates the cgroup tree and takes control of it and completely messes with any other user of the cgroup tree and really wants them all to go through systemd, systemd was wirtten basically on the assumption that nothing but systemd would be using cgroups and they even tried to lobby to make cgroups a private prioperty of systemd in the kernel but that went no-where.

8. systemd's usage of cgroups for process tracking is a fundamentally broken concept, cgroups were never meant for this and it's a good way to fuck resource usage up.

9. systemd has a hard dependency on glibc for really no good reason.

10. systemd relies on DBus for IPC, as the name 'Desktop bus' implies DBus was never written with this in mind and it shows. DBus was written to facilitate IPC within a single desktop session, not as a transport during early boot. This is why systemd wanted to push kdbus heavily beause kdbus solved some of the problems inherent to DBus being used as IPC during early boot.

11. systemd's security and general code quality practices are less than stellar, a lot of security bugs pop up in systemd due to its insistence of putting quite a bit of code in pid1 and quickly adding new features and quickly changing things.

>in be4 "not one single valid criticism" please let me jack you off lennart

>>59338435
>"SystemD is an "Init" "Program""
except that's wrong you retard. The first sentence in the man page description clearly states that it is more than that.

>>59338423
>I fucked up my installation
>it must be systemd's fault
Show me the bug report or get the fuck out

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

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if systemd is so bad why don't you autists fork it and keep it as an init system

oh yeah, because you're too retarded

>>59338445


13. systemd creates dependencies and is a dependency of things for political reasons in order to encourage people to pick these things. This is not conjecture, Lennart has admitted multiple times that he creates dependencies to 'gently push' everyone to the same configuration

14. systemd is monolithic for its own sake. It's basically product tying to encourage people to pick an all-or-none deal to again gently push towards this consistency.

15. Lennart Poettering, the face of systemd and its lead dev is the biggest primadonna FOSS has ever known who continues to shift blame and demand that entire world adapt to his designs.

>in b4 "not one single valid criticism has been listed in this entire thread" and "lennart's is dick is sooo comfy in my ass"

>>59338485
Why the fuck would you want to fork that peice of shit?
openrc works flawlessly

>>59338473
Nobody is going to read your dozens of pages worth of propaganda. Either tell us what specifically you have a problem with or fuck off

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>>59338497
retard spotted

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>>59338435
See this is the problem. Systemd will eventually be the whole OS, a big opaque mess of databases, binary configuration files which are auto-maintained by a giant bunch of tools, and nobody will have any fucking clue how it all works except the technical whizzes at the three letter agencies.

It's a long game to subvert Linux and open-source Unix in general. With the main desktop environments (running on gov-corp shekels) and possibly the kernel itself all moving toward tighter and tighter integration with systemd, non-systemd environments will have more trouble. Want to run Gnome or KDE or that video or audio player on BSD? Maybe you can't because it (((needs))) systemd. This is their plan.

>>59338502
I have given you reasons and a source in which i derived those reasons.

Your reading comprehension is not my problem

>>59338485
>why don't you autists fork it and keep it as an init system
if it's bad why fork it or use it at all?

this is a fucking idiotic argument

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>>59338457
>Show me the bug report or get the fuck out
Why bother filing bug reports when they're just going to an autistic STASI operative who doesn't care anyway?

The smart thing to do is to remove systemd.

>>59338537
because if you don't, you'll be left behind like every other bitter stinkbeard in the linux world

you either fork it or you lose (or install bsd lol)

>>59337608
>BrownPill
lad...

>>59338564
>left behind
So Linux becomes something that is only used on Chromebooks and phones.

Many people moved to Linux in the first place because of software choice and freedom. If you take that away from them, they will simply focus their autism elsewhere. Linux will just become another product with some lip service to Open Source every once in a while.

This is already happening, these CIA leaks are going to cause a LOT of infrastructure changes as people switch over to other options.

>>59338518
systemd = Linux registry

It even has binary logs.

>>59338370
1.Logical fallacy.
2.Burden of Proof.

Nice try

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>>59324784
>Linus is compromised
He's been compromised since the NSA bought out his VLIW processor, if not before then.

>>59328769
It's unauditable because it's constantly expanding and changing. It's really beta software which has been foisted on us one piece at a time.

>>59329809
The only thing that sucks is that it has a relatively small community and not a huge amount of attention is paid to packages, but you get all the basics and can compile shit easily yourself if you need to.

What's the deal with Illumos and OpenIndiana? I thought OpenIndiana was where it's at?

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>>59329838
STOP USING SYSVINIT

>>59338824
You don't even know what those mean. You are just making up bullshit reasons not to have to summarize the supposed problems that you are so insistent are real but won't talk about directly.

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>>59338164
I fucking triggered the Potty-Ring himself Jej

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>>59338164
You are a fucking cancer on the community you massive faggot. You should have been outed as shit with your PussAudio crapware, but instead you were embraced for some Kek-known reason.

Take a deep breath, I have a present for you mein brudder.