ruby discussion thread

>>52621835
imo Ruby is dying. I switched from to Java to Ruby like 1 year ago because of a good offer and now i regret it. Ruby is also full of magic "goodies" which sometimes (often for me) can kill you hours debugging and trying to understand wtf is going on. Better Ruby devs maybe don't feel the same way...

>>52621908
Op here, the code looks overly complicated and the way you write expressions seems arbitrary. Like they put alot into making the language readable, but by doing so they make the code more complicated to write.

I dont even know how they managed that.

>>52621908
This t︂b︂︂h be honest faⅿ
It seems cool at first because you can condense like 20 lines of code to 5, but then it just become unreadable and a pain to debug. You can mitigate these problems by writing in a more C or Python style, but at that point, why not just use Python which gets about the same performance, has more packages available, and has more career opportunities?

only if you plan to learn Rails.

>>52623300
but is it even worth it?
or is phython and php more viable?

>>52621835
Learned ruby because red is my favorite color. If you like red, keep reading?

>>52621835
One good thing about Ruby is that it's run by nips so it will never be overtaken by SJWs. That's pretty much the only advantage it has over python though. The way it tries to put syntatic sugar on everything makes things extremely unintuitive to newcomers the same way Haskell and Coffeescript does.

Don't learn ruby. Learn a decent language like c, c++, c#, or Java. If you want a interpreted language for some stupid reason then learn python if you are a retarded baby, otherwise learn perl6 or pike. Possibly php7 if your a web fag and like the CoC shoved in your face.

ruby is a fun language
I use it for small utilities and web servers

>>52623583
>by the way I use arch

Hey, /g/. New to the board.

I went to school for IT back in 2009-2012, couldn't get a job with it, and retained nothing. Looking to brush up with the hopes of getting in somewhere as a generic code monkey, or do freelance work until I get a portfolio built up. I retain a little Java, but I was wondering where would be the best (read: most lucrative) place to start language-wise?

Probably unrelated to the topic at hand, but I thought this was a question that didn't really deserve its own thread.

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>>52623583
>learn all these shitty languages only used by pajeets on h1b visas so you're unemployable

no thanks ackmed

>>52623619
>I'm always wrong.
Sucks to be you. I'm just trying to keep the pup from making mistakes like you father did by not pulling out.

>>52623640
here yo
>>52622420
we have a programming general
you'll probably get good advice there

might as well learn perl or python

at least they have other uses than rails

>>52623735
Thank you very much.

>>52623583
op here, I already know php. should I just stick with it then?

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Ruby 3.0: Will it be a hit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48iKjUcENRE

>>52621908
simply wrong

>>52623725

>implying he didn't just list the most common languages that give a person the most marketability

>>52623807
Forget PHP and learn anything else

>>52623725
Its a list of languages to choose from. I know everyone of those languages besides perl6 and php7, but I do know perl5, php5, visual basic+.net, bash, powershell, basic, scheme a little, and several shell ad DSL languages. OP probably want to make money that doesn't involve begging for welfare from his mum so I suggested some.

If you're worried about Pajeet Shitdik the your a shitty or lazy dev.

Just pick a language and stick with it.

You can't go wrong as long as you keep learning. There is always a use for any language and /g/ is the worst place to ask for advice as it is full of people who can't see past their own language.

learn node/js. you're welcome

>>52623807
If you only want to make websites, why not. Just start focusing on technique and correct practices. I have no idealet me look. Here I found this http://www.phptherightway.com/ it looks alright from a cursory inspection. That should get you started.

>>52623807
PHP is extremely backwards by 2016 standards. If you do any kind of web-work, do yourself a favour and learn Ruby+Rails, or Node.js+Express. You can seriously get a 5-10x productivity multiplier with more modern technology

>>52623347
>or is phython and php more viable?
Ruby, Python and PHP? Viable? What are you even asking for? All three of them run hundreds of major websites and thousands of smaller ones. Serious question: what does viability mean to you? Is your goal employment? A personal project? Meeting your Programmer Waifu/Husbando at a conference or users group?

If you were talking about something older-but-uncommon like OCaml, Erlang or Haskell, or something new/promising-yet-immature like Nim, Julia or Elixir, you could slice the pie and squint at it and make a claim it's not "viable to learn". None of the three you mentioned are going away any time soon.

>>52623846
That's exactly what I was going for.

>>52624077
>Ruby+Rails
>Node.js+Express
For anyone else reading, please realize that "Rails or Express" is a very apples-to-oranges comparison. Express is a fairly terse library that doesn't make too many prescriptions whereas Rails is an opinionated framework. The equivalent of Express in Ruby-land is something like Rack (or Sinatra on top of Rack). The equivalent of Rails for Node is Sails (and depending on our definition, maybe Meteor).

I don't disagree with >>52624077, btw. PHP a shit, but just want to point out that the recommendations are a little mismatched.

>>52624211
Thanks for the clarification, I'm actually heavily invested in Rails and don't know a lot about Node.js, so I was guessing what the equivalent might be for Node.

My recommendation still stands for Rails over PHP though, the judicious use of ruby gems is enough to turn a project that might usually take me weeks into an afternoon project.

>>52624077
>PHP is extremely backwards by 2016 standards.
This is true but it doesn't matter. There are alot of jobs. Slightly lower pay, but you'll never be unemployed.

>If you do any kind of web-work, do yourself a favour and learn Ruby+Rails, or Node.js+Express.
This is a bad idea.
RoR is DOA, node is not a good fit for the vast majority of projects, and JavaScript isn't that good.

>>52624275
>Slightly lower pay
In my experience substantially lower, plus my personal happiness factors into my equation of what job to pick, and being forced to use PHP is detrimental to my happiness and job satisfaction.

>RoR is DOA
Absolutely ridiculous, RoR is maybe no longer 'cool' but it's just as productive a platform to work with as ever. RoR has so many advantages over any PHP framework it's not funny - between gems, generators, migrations, pre-compiled assets, mailers, massive amount of community support (every web service under the sun has a gem and a quickstart guide), it's probably the sanest place to do web development currently.

>>52624275
>RoR is DOA, node is not a good fit for the vast majority of projects, and JavaScript isn't that good.
Rails has entered the "middle age" of frameworks, also know as the years of quiet productivity. They're not breaking any new boundaries, and there's little to rave about, but there are thousands of companies hiring Senior Rails devs and people starting new projects in it because it's a dependable, known quantity for producing API backends and simple CRUD-applications. The bleeding edge web hipsters will move on, but there are still thousands of companies who have line-of-business needs and would kill for a no-frills solution built in something predictable as Rails.

JavaScript as a language has its warts, but it's got nothing on C++, and yet that language is an undead bitch that will never die. I agree with you that it's not a good fit for some projects, but the same is true of Rails. In fact, I'd argue that they compliment each other quite well for now, and projects whose requirements would make Rails difficult to work with are decent suited to Node-and-friends, and projects that take needless extra legwork in Node are a cinch in Rails.

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Worked as a ruby dev for a web startup a few years back. It was pretty fun until they hired a bunch of autists who kept trying to reinvent everything to match the new hip fandangled tool of the month. Constantly chasing things and putting out resultant fires burned me out so much I eventually left.

Also done a few other things with ruby, but generally the big problem I find is this: unless you write everything yourself, shit is going to probably break within the first year you write it unless you tie everything down using gem bundles and ruby environments (and even then it'll still break if you need to introduce new gems). Consistency and stability are words every ruby dev ignores.

For me the floor sort of fell out of the whole ruby thing when a guy was doing a presentation at euruko about some cocoa thing in the most flamboyant over the top way possible with backing singers. Then I realized I had inadvertently fooled myself into joining a clown circus.

Ruby itself isn't inherently bad, but the community surrounding it... is toxic. Ignore everything outside the standard library or which you cant easily include (without introducing dependency hell), and you might make it out alive.

>>52624275
>RoR is DOA
>Dead On Arrival
>A project that has been around for 10 years and powers hundred-million-dollar companies is dead on "arrival".
You sound a little foolish.

>>52624443
The real lesson is bigger than Ruby: at a job the environment is more important than the language, and the wrong environment/team can make your life suck, no matter what technologies are involved. I've worked a company where none of us were in the "Ruby community" and it was awesome, because we just got shit done in a language that we all thought matched the way we think about problems.
>Consistency and stability are words every ruby dev ignores.
So have some standards be the Ruby dev who doesn't. The problem is more likely because you were at a startup. Those places, almost by definition, sacrifice engineering fundamentals for "iteration speed" and growth.

>>52624517
>I've worked a company where none of us were in the "Ruby community"
Sorry, I should have made that more clear:
>I worked at a company *that used Ruby* where none of us were in the "Ruby community"

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>>52624443
>a presentation at euruko about some cocoa thing in the most flamboyant over the top way possible with backing singers
You got a video link?

>>52624549
>at euruko about some cocoa thing in the most flamboyant over the top way possible with backing singers
>You got a vid
Agree'd. I would love to see this.

>>52624312
>In my experience substantially lower,
In my experience slightly lower. Its almost like were different people who've had different jobs. Last time I worked with PHP was 2008ish so maybe its changed or maybe..
> and being forced to use PHP
...your just a baby.

>is detrimental to my happiness and job satisfaction.
Which is important, but grow up buttercup.

>Absolutely ridiculous, RoR is maybe no longer 'cool' but it's just as productive a platform to work with as ever.
Yet barely anyone uses it and the market is flooded with devs.

>RoR has so many advantages over any PHP framework
Then prove it Sally.

> between gems, generators, migrations, pre-compiled assets, mailers, massive amount of community support (every web service under the sun has a gem and a quickstart guide),
So literally nothing special over something like larvel(sp?) except a jewelry box full of gems.

>it's probably the sanest place to do web development currently.
Its not even a place. Your just regurgitating marketing drivel aren't you. Promoting forward synergy?

>>52624549
>>52624574
I misremembered slightly, it was more like "guy talks about cocoapods then suddenly everyone starts singing then wtf".

http://vimeo.com/43852163 [starts at 17:40]

>>52624602
>Last time I worked with PHP was 2008ish so maybe its changed or maybe..
It has absolutely changed, and RoR devs generally get paid extremely generous salaries. A friend of mine contracts RoR for 200-250k p/a. The only PHP jobs available are usually entry level.

>Which is important, but grow up buttercup.
Life's too short to work with shit technologies where the original author literally admits that it's a shitpile.

>I'm not a real programmer. I throw together things until it works then I move on. The real programmers will say "yeah it works but you're leaking memory everywhere. Perhaps we should fix that." I'll just restart apache every 10 requests.
>Rasmus Lerdorf - creator of PHP

>Yet barely anyone uses it
Just factually wrong, it's the 10th most popular language on the planet http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

>Then prove it Sally.
>Every other aggressive idiot thing you wrote
I actually can't be bothered. If you're so determined to use PHP, a language which was outdated in 2009, then I have no interest in stopping you.

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>>52624640
>http://vimeo.com/43852163
>26:05
>suddenly balloons
>DOOT DO DOO DOOT DOOT DOO DO DOOT

Now that the ruby on rails marketing team is here. Why defend ROR? If you were defending javascript or php at least I would know you're retarded. Why, legacy code base, I get it. Why defend a shit framework for shit language?

>>52624740
Here's your (you)

I like it, it sure beats Python. God Python gives me aids.

I use it for small scripts mostly

>>52624685
Ruby is popular according to specifically crafted search terms that aren't indicative of actual usage. Just look at the graph, php is more popular than ruby.

Its annoying that your comparing the language php to the framework ruby on rails. That's why I brought larvel into the discussion. I've never used it, but a quick google and that what most are using. So either compare ruby to php, or ruby on rails to larvel.

What does RoR do better than Larvel?

>>52624640
>womyn in tech

wew

>>52624995
For one, not use PHP.

>>52624995
>Ruby is popular according to specifically crafted search terms that aren't indicative of actual usage. Just look at the graph, php is more popular than ruby.

I'm not sure why you're trying to argue this, Ruby is extremely popular by any measure - see http://githut.info/ for analysis on public github repos.

PHP is popular because there's millions of legacy applications out there that need to be maintained. Doesn't mean you should take any of these jobs if you can avoid them, or heaven forbid, start a new PHP project in 2016.

>Its annoying that your comparing the language php to the framework ruby on rails
My experience with PHP is with Zend, Symfony and Code Igniter, which are shitpiles of over-engineering and user-unfriendliness compared to Rails.

>What does RoR do better than Larvel?
I have no idea, and I don't care, not being associated with PHP is good enough for me. Whatever framework you use, you're eventually going to have to deal with PHP standard library functions which are all basically c functions except with weird parameter ordering, stupid quirks that you have to remember or flat-out don't work like they should. I left that behind years ago and so should you, and stop being contrarian for the sake of it.

>>52625091
Duh, but ruby is not much better. http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ruby/

>>52621835
>the more I read the more unintuitive the language is

They say it makes programming enjoyable. Is it true?
I haven't looked at the language yet because I'm heterosexual.

>>52625195
op here, I think the books just shit cause it just gets worse and worse.

>>52624123
Im actually doing a personal project. Im still in school so im dicking around. Im probably going to focus more on languages like c# or java because i want to focus more on apps than web design. My first venture into programming was php so i really only know web design

>>52625172
This is Java and Perl programmers talking shit about Ruby. Talk about a classic case of 'those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones'.

>>52625272
Personally I don't like ORLY's Ruby book. The traditional "Intro to Ruby" book is by Dave Thomas, known as "The Pickaxe Book".

>>52625154
>or heaven forbid,
Sorry darling, I didn't mean to upset you.

>I have no idea, and I don't care,
So your just a shit talker, who pulls facts out of their ass.

>Whatever framework you use
I haven't used php in almost 10 years.


>you're eventually going to have to deal with PHP standard library functions which are all basically c functions
PHP is written in c yes, but so is you beloved ruby which you defend so proudly.

>except with weird parameter ordering, stupid quirks that you have to remember or flat-out don't work like they should.
Yeah its PHP, I never said it was good. You probably have me confused with your dad.

> I left that behind years ago
We have so much in common.

>and so should you, and stop being contrarian for the sake of it.
And your feisty.

>>52625272
>more on apps than web design
By "apps" do you mean desktop applications or mobile apps?

FYI the "design" part of web design is normally more associated with learning UX, usability and all of the CSS quirks, along with loads and loads of JavaScript. In most cases very little of the PHP or Ruby you write should relate to "design", and should instead be reserved for the application logic (also referred to as "business logic") and managing interactions with other systems (automated email, database, payment systems, automated SMS, etc.).

>>52625348
yeah oreilly's been real hit and miss. Their perl, php, and javascript books are great but everything else is just ass. Big giant brick books with too much info for a novice to even bit a piece off.

>>52625396
>"apps"
probably both

and I do know a fair amount of javascript, css, and html. I want to know how to do everything for websites.