I have been casually using Xubuntu for a while, and I really

>>52415301
that is not how freetard mind works. Making it mainstream for casual users is what they hate most.

Because there isn't 100% free support for most WiFi cards and graphics. That's what Ubuntu is for; to provide those non-free components and further usability enhancements.

>>52415338
Making things easier for everyone was the original idea behind debian in the 1st place. It just got stuck at some point.

>>52415355
And what is the non-free repo for Debian, which pretty much contains most, if not all of said drivers? What stopping Debian as a foundation that presents these as an option during install as Ubuntu does?

>>52415389
Well then it's not 100% free then retard.

It's called Ubantu and Mint

>>52415432
Except it can be, by default, while giving you the option for not to be. Ubuntu does give you the option to ditch some non-free stuff but it includes stuff like kernel blobs that really can't be opted out.

Debian is a pain to get used to. So many little things that have to be tweaked in XFCE. Like something with the middle click and sorting out the wifi bullshit.

You can choose Xfce instead of the default GNOME during installation, you know.

Because Xdebian would be hard to say

>>52415560
s/XFCE/Xfce/
http://xfce.org/

>>52415372
Why don't people just release debian with their own de like Ubuntu?
Xebian, lebian, Debian mate?

>>52415301
Well there is LMDE http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

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>>52415636
Because it's pointless, see pic. Everything is already maintained at Debian - there's no need for separation.

>>52415658
Then just install Debian with Cinnamon.

>>52415682
Then what's stopping it from taking off?

I've never used it, I'm mainly on Fedora and sometimes mint, but I've been meaning to try it out on my old laptop.

>>52415560
>>52415636
It's more than that. It's not just providing default desktop options (which Debian already does). It's also about providing a sensible choice of pre-installed software and configurations. This is what the -buntu derivates do so well (better than Ubuntu itself, actually), and what I feel Debian is really missing. The problem is that default Debian so barebones it doesn't even come with simple frontends for very basic stuff (software updater, file searching, etc).

So essentially, what I'd like to see here would be a Debian testing based distro fully supported by the foundation that comes with a fully prepared DE and fully configured for desktop use. That gives you the option at install to opt between non-free drivers and to link to the non-free repo for updates. That looks stylish and good by default.

>>52415682
I've never understood why Ubuntu can't do something like this, because frankly the *buntu thing is stupid.
It makes a lot of newbies ask, "what's the difference between Xubuntu and Lubuntu" or whatever. Then I have to explain to them the whole shebang about desktop environments.
(it's not hard, but I shouldn't have to)

>>52415701
Like I said, there's no need. If you prefer one DE over the other you can just install it during installation. This is what Ubuntu could do as well, but they just like to market their flavours as different operating systems, but it's just a different default DE with the same Ubuntu repository anyway.

>>52415738
This. Thank you.

>>52415691
This is whre you're wrong. "Just installing Debian with Cinnamon" still means you have to configure a whole bunch of stuff by hand, which is not friendly for casual users at all. For this I take my hat off to LMDE for at least trying to do this. My problem with LMDE though, is that it was very poorly supported last time I tried it.

>>52415682
>graphical installer

File: DebianVsUbuntu_final.jpg (929KB, 1000x5192px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52415766
That beside the point. Debian is not a beginner's distribution, you know that. People that struggle should move get familiarised with the like of Ubuntu first. This discussion is about separating the DEs over unnecessary multiple Debian spin offs.

>>52415738
To be fair it's best the way it is. Maintaining a bunch of DEs simultaneously is a pain which forces you to always go with the default choices. If you want a distro that is useable by regular people, you want to focus on a single DE and it do it well. This is why distros like Xubuntu look so great and are so responsive out-of-the-box.

>>52415777
It was the fastest picture I could find, give me a break.

Debian strikes me as really rigid in a weird, clunky way. For example, after trying a dozen methods on how to enable numlock on the login screen (XFCE) I'm still left in the dark. No other distro gave me so much trouble with such simple shit as Debian does.

>>52415726
Yet it still comes with a bloated office suite. I don't mind about updating because apt-get upgrade can be run every now and then. I find myself removing half the applications in Xubuntu.

>>52415786
That is precisely MY point. The issue is that Debian could very well have a beginners distro flavor that is supported by the Debian Foundation itself, much like DebianEdu was supported in the past. I feel this would be highly beneficial to Debian as a community.

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Just use Arch.

>>52415861
Agree my fedora tipping fellow.

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You should give deepin a try. It's based on Debian now (formerly Ubuntu) and it's very smooth to use overall. The deepin DE is pleasant, any common applications you may need are in the "software center", and it has an alert system that warns you if you are about to install a repo that contains non-free software. I've had it running on my test laptop (hp elitebook 840) and even on that relatively weak system it's silky smooth.

>>52415701
>Then what's stopping it from taking off?
lack of marketing

>>52415828
I do not mind doing stuff like using the command like frequently myself (mind you, I used Debian for a whole year before), but I tend to share a sympathy for casual users who intend a more out-of-the-box experience, since improving this end could really bring Debian a lot more popularity and unify more effort around it.

>>52415897
>Chinese botnet
No thanks I'll just stick to Debian

>>52415897
>chinese botnet

>>52415897
Custom DE and China based aren't really attractive for me. I've been interested in Siduction, since they're going all out with lxqt, which is, for me, the greatest promise of Linux DEs at the moment. However, they still seem to be at infant stages.

>>52415849
That's Ubuntu for all I care. We don't need it, but if you really want this, please start it and develop it, or pitch your idea in one of their mailing lists.

>>52415988
Ubuntu is simulatenously more and less than that. Like I said before, it comes with kernel blobs, and is less stable than a testing distro. since it's based on Sid. It is also less swift than Debian.

>We don't need it
This, I feel, is a very haughty attitude. I do think that Debian, for its own sake, needs to get more in what a user-end product feels like in order to improve their own functioning as a community and even standard Debian itself. Making Linux more accessible and easy to use was precisely the philosophy behind Debian. The problem was that it never took this view further ahead and needed Ubuntu to carry this torch to an overdependence on proprietary stuff.

>>52416155
That's not entirely true. The LTS is based on Testing.

>[Debian] needed Ubuntu to carry this torch to an overdependence on proprietary stuff.
Debian never needed Ubuntu because it was lacking something. Mark felt he was missing something and started Ubuntu. And that's fine, because there are a lot of people that feel the same way and now use Ubuntu, instead of reinventing the wheel over and over again. Or would you also suggest a beginner's Gentoo distribution?

>>52415682
the debian netinstall expert installer is one of the best installers ever made.

>>52416441
Can confirm.

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>>52415301
THE ENTIRE UBUNTU PROJECT IS DEBIAN FOR NORMIES

The first Ubuntu versions cared about not including non-free stuff but eventually they gave up in favor of easy-of-use.

http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php


LMDE is the closest thing to what you want.