One issue is that MS Excel hasn't really added anything new in the last 10 years. There just isn't anything more to put into spreadsheet technology, its more or less "complete". At the rate things are going with other competitors it will still take them a looooong time to catch up though.
>>52334766 Apache OpenOffice and Libreoffice: Both forks of the OpenOffice.org project, which its self is a fork of the much older Star Office suite by Oracle. Probably the most popular competitors as they're both free software. Libreoffice gets more development and is usually recommended over Apache OO
Calc, libreoffice's excel clone, has gotten most of excel's functionality down but a lot of it is pretty choppy. For example it doesn't have VBA, instead it translates macros into its own Python-based engine. Its also butt ugly as you can see in the pic.
>>52337011 >For example it doesn't have VBA, instead it translates macros into its own Python-based engine. Well, that's great, because VBA is utter garbage. >Its also butt ugly as you can see in the pic. Um, ugly how? Maybe your problem is that you're using Windows. Under a proper OS, you can change themes.
>>52337029 Something just turns me on about how its laid out. Its codebase is also a disgusting mess of non-native code like Java and Python which results in an objectively slower UI on Windows/Mac than Office.
>>52337076 I will take Python over VBA every day of the week. Python has great set theory and string manipulation, you can do a lot of work with ease. But VBA is used for everything so you just have to play along, it sucks really.
>>52337101 The point is that if their translation from VBA to python messes something up, you're going to have to nose dive into a bunch of machine-generated spaghetti code to try to find whatever it fucked up. Not fun
This is the real problem with OpenOffice/LibreOffice being adopted. A great deal of Excel use revolves around having macros and shit set-up. As long as Microsoft keeps excel updates incremental and allows users to basically use the same VBA routines they've been using for the last decade, there is no real reason to update.
Also, the Excel API gives it serious points in its favor, at least in the enterprise area.
>>52337219 >>This is the real problem with OpenOffice/LibreOffice being adopted. A great deal of Excel use revolves around having macros and shit set-up. It extends to Word, etc too. I have an older friend who I tried to move over to LibreOffice, but in the end it didn't work because Writer botched the layout + formatting in one way or another on most of his Word documents.
>>52337230 >durr gurr hurr good UIs don't matter guys
Shut the fuck up anon-kun, having an intuitive UI where you can instantly know where everything is and what everything does is probably one of the most important parts of software design. Discrediting proper UI designing as "autism" is why loonix is still <1% in the desktop markets.
Yes, it is, however; it's got Microsoft backing it. Plus, it's been around for almost a decade and people have already learned it.
Remember, Office is an enterprise-funded software. In the enterprise world, they do NOT change shit unless the time/cost to change is heavily outweighed by it's benefits. Currently, nothing like that exists in the world of Office productivity software. The monopoly isn't helped by the fact that even Apple ultimately says "fuck it" to productivity software beyond High School essay writing, and just let's Microsoft develop the software they want.
In terms of basic office producity, sure, LibreOffice/OpenOffice COULD get you by, but when you're dealing with customers/clients who use exclusively Microsoft Offce (i.e. 99% of them) then you might run into some compatibility problems trying to share files between the suites. So enterprise says "Fuck it, just use Office."
As much as it sucks, Office is going to be here for a long ass time. You're better off getting friendly with that and just sucking it up, move your fight on to somewhere else.
>>52337278 >having an intuitive UI where you can instantly know where everything is and what everything does is probably one of the most important parts of software design And Microsoft is failing horribly at it. Microsoft GUIs are "hiding away the useful stuff behind useless crap and animations" - the paradigm.
Just look at any ribbon application. Before ribbons you could just click on the toolbar and use what you wanted to use, OR use the menu bar. Now you have to switch through multiple "sliders" to get to the functionality you want. The buttons aren't even in a grid anymore, they are arbitrarily sized icons mushed together to create a mess like >>52337156
Then there is that whole cramming "forward", "backward" and "save" buttons into the title bar, cause thanks to the innovative ribbon you don't have buttons that are always visible.
Don't forget the microsoft classic, menus with over 40 mostly ungrouped settings where every single setting is just a whole line of text, which makes it impossible to find anything without reading all that text.
The interface of LO is objectively more user-friendly and accessible than that crap.
Office 365 is basically the same shit, just with Cloud storage.
As much as I hate to say it, Steve Jobs is probably right when it comes to the traditional desktop PC. It's a lot like the pick-up truck. Once, it was everywhere, because if you used a automobile, you NEEDED the cargo to haul shit. Now, they're less common. They will always have a place, just not nearly as common as they once were.
This is true, design is a revolving door. I remember the era of Windows 95. At the time, minimalism was kind of a result of the limitations of hardware. You couldn't animate/show all those flashly/glossy graphics. Then once they were available, they were popular. Then, everyone grew tired of staring at hyper-gloss, so then we shifted back to minimalism. Give it a few more years and then we'll be back to incorporating hyper-gloss/flashy UI elements because the 'need for variety'.
I made my own, it uses picolisp and a file tree for data so you can embed stuff like other spreadsheets inside a cell since its just making a new directory in the db folder, though its pretty slow for >10k cells so am reworking that part.
>>52337471 >Don't forget the microsoft classic, menus with over 40 mostly ungrouped settings where every single setting is just a whole line of text, which makes it impossible to find anything without reading all that text. LO is literally the same fucking shitty cluttered and wasteful interface as the Office 97/2000 interface it copies
>>52337907 I disagree. I actually think that Flat design is the "end-game" to UI design, at least until newer technologies come out like VR.
Take for example, this, or the icons in >>52337076, compared to >>52337156. The flat icons are very simple and easy ways to convey information. The detailed icons have more color and design, but that means it takes a bit more brain power to understand what it does, just by looking at the icon.
Flat design boils down the information to its very essence with nothing unnecessary. I'd definitely say its the best design method to convey any sort of information through imagery.
>>52337922 Why a file tree and not sexprs? (Or, given the other comments in this thread, CSVs)
>>52337002 Those sound like the most boring magazines ever.
>>52340830 I find Google's almost-an-office-suite lacking in very particular but infuriating ways. That being said, I don't recall having any particular complaint about Sheets, other than that the whole concept of an in-browser spreadsheet editor is stupid.
I don't even understand what people do with Excel. It's apparently critically important for some, but all I actually see are middle management dudes twisting it in obscene directions to coerce it into outputting things that would have been trivial in more appropriate software.
I use Google spreadsheets for human data entry and csv/python for processing data on a large scale and I'm not sure if I'm missing something.
>>52343504 Financial students/people only learn to work with MS Excel and mostly suck at programming. It's like learning monkeys to work with typewriters and calculators, they work but don't ask them to build it themselves.
>>52337320 Office, specifically, also uses alot of custom controls. I don't have alot of experience with Mac development (XCode is just awful) but the Windows common controls are really barebones. The .NET layer on top in WinForms is even worse; features are missing, bugs aren't fixed, and sometimes it's done screwy enough to introduce new bugs. Seriously, take a look at the .NET 4 source sometime, it's a fucking trainwreck.
Just to understand where I'm coming from. I love minimalistic/clean user interface elements. Always have, but I honestly believe that in a few years once people 'get tired' of looking at flat/minimalistic UI elements, you'll see software companies shifting back to busier UI elements in a face-value attempt to 'renew' the software.
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