Welcomed: DOS, Windows 3.x/9x/NT/2000, Amiga
Tolerated: Mac OS 1-9
Not allowed: XP, Mac OS X
Really depends on the hardware.
Pentium-75 = 8W
Pentium II-300 = 40W
Pentium III-500 = 16W
Pentium Pro-200 = 235W (lel)
Of course power is drawn from other components as well, it doesn't add up to significantly much more.
Guess the second next thing that draws the most power would be those old-ass harddisks.
CF-to-IDE adapter comes into play there.
Also might be a good idea to replace the old AT power supply with an new ATX one and get an ATX-to-AT cable set.
I think this one was a bit cooler imo.
If you read Usenet posts from the 90s, there were quite a few Luddite programmers who still insisted DOS was the shit and Windows 95 was inferior for game development. Mainly because they assumed it had the same limitations as Windows 3.x. Like I remember one thread where a guy asks "Hurr why can't I use this kewl undocumented 320x220 VGA mode under Windoze. It's totally l33t hax0r." and they tell him "WTF you be wanting to use some shitty unsupported, incompatible mode like that for when you're supposed to be using 640x480."
The downside is that CF-IDE adapters are almost invariably broken and don't do DMA properly. I ended up spending 40 bucks for a 1TB IDE WD Blue on Amazon for my Sun Ultra 5. I'm gonna put OpenBSD on it when it gets here.
So finally some guy posts that "Y'know, I thought so first too, but there's just so much more that Windows 95 has to offer software devs especially in terms of supporting newer hardware, more memory, etc. Let's be honest, DOS was designed for the 8086."
Cool shit on videotex.exe, lets you use a AVI file on textures. Maybe I'll put gay porn on it.
Older than me at least.
EWB is from 1987 so only CGA and EGA are supported (CGA recommended for machines under 12Mhz). If you run it on a VGA card (VGA was just brand-new at the time), it can use the palette registers to set colors other than the puke-tastic CGA aqua/pink/white nonsense, but actual VGA modes are not supported.
A sequel EWB II followed in 1991, but interestingly enough still does not support VGA.
Gonna be dumping some pictures from a CD found at the back of this book about the IBM PalmTop PC110.
Windows 3.x had a lot of actually decent edutainment titles.
Oregon Trail, Math Workshop, JumpStart, Math Blasters, Super Solvers, etc.
Wiring for overclocking the 33MHz 486SX to 40MHz.
16-bit Windows port of Doom, the only one.
>yfw Doom was ported to Linux, Solaris, and 68k NeXTSTEP in 1994 by Dave D. Taylor, one year before any Windows version
Did #DEFINE NAME_OF_THE_APP actually do shit?
>The term "app" being used
There is actually an earlier build from June 14, 1994, but it crashes when I run it. Might need an earlier version of the WAD (1.9 a.k.a Ultimate DOOM, was released alongside Doom 95)
I'm trying to install Windows 98 SE on a Compaq nc4000 from a USB stick but the installer is assuming the USB stick as the C-drive and even after I make install the OS on the D-drive (which I'm assuming is the HDD) it won't boot.
I wish Intel would make DOS gaming PCs the size of an RPi or similar. A 22nm Soc with a 200 MHz PPro with MMX, various PC support chipsets, SB16, 32MB RAM, full size or micro SD card emulating an IDE drive, onboard Intel NIC, VGA, PS/2, couple of COM ports, parallel port... the entire thing could be about the size of a NUC, even with a small ATX PSU. Maybe make it a round case and call it a PUC (Previous Unit of Computing), knowing full well everyone's gonna call it a hockey puck.
I love this idea but can't you just run DOSBox on whichever Linux you're using on the RPi and call it a day? DOSBox's SB16 emulation isn't as good as the real thing but it's close enough IMO. I almost want to buy one and mess with it now that I think about the convenient size.
Wii does DOSBox pretty good with the games it can play also.
What did I do to you, nigger? I have like 4 other 8088 clones with MCGA/VGA cards and a fuckton of 386/486 systems, I don't need to trash a fucking mint XT because some autist on /g/ can't stand the idea of it.
I know this relates to a newer version of Windows, but is there a way to replace the Start button in Windows 7 so it looks like the one from 98?
Its actually not the whole button you need to replace, just the Windows flag.
With XN Resource Editor, open up C:\Windows\branding\shellbrd\shellbrd.dll (back it up first in case you fuck up).
Replace bitmaps 1041 (16x16), 2041 (20x20), and 3014 (24x24) with a bitmaps of the old windows flag with their respective sizes. Save that dll, set it to read-only. Reboot.
Change from Aero to Classic Mode, and its done.
I'm curious if the IPX/SPX protocol has any benefits over TCP or UDP.
Also, fucking NetWars.
>tfw OSes are no longer bundled with games that actually kickass. Like Hover, Full Tilt Pinball, or pic related.
And Caldera updated it (as "Advanced NetWars") for DR-DOS when they had the license for it, made it even better.
If you don't know what NetWars is, its a 3D first-person space shooter that came with Novell Personal NetWare. Single-player or multiplayer deathmatch over an IPX network.
It is pretty damn sweet.
I recommend playing with a mouse, actually.
Keyboard isn't natural-feeling and joystick support is finicky (at least in Advanced Netwars).
No music. PC Speaker bleeps, but also Sound Blaster support in Advanced Netwars.
But the visual aesthetic is fucking neato. You can choose between wireframe and flat-shaded-polygons. Also, Advanced Netwars has this cool ass motion blur effect (not jarring at all, and can be turned on/off)
Goddamn, I could go on. Dunno why, but I just really like this game.
Runs fine in DOSBox, or even under Windows9x.
Fucking amazing for a 77KB executable.
Some of your own music playing, friends over connected in a LAN, fun time.
So the IPX protocol is implemented over standard Ethernet? Does NetWare come with drivers?
Sorry, I've never used NetWare before but this sounds like it would be fun to set up with some friends or even as a museum/public display
Network cards usually come with netware drivers. I bought a gigabit card recently, and it had drivers linux, windows from 98 to 7 and netware. The default netware CDs have a crapload of network drivers.
WebM of it.
Excuse my piss-poor playing.
Bandicam screwed with my mouse input and I've been awake for two and a half days.
>So the IPX protocol is implemented over standard Ethernet?
Can be (and generally is), but also over Token Ring and 10BASE2 (BNC connectors), as well.
>Does NetWare come with drivers?
Depends on what version of Netware and what card.
NIC manufacturers almost always have NetWare drivers. Netware drivers are "ODI," as opposed to LanMan/LANtastic/Windows/etc., which are NDIS.
There are also 16-bit and 32-bit ODIs.
I'm gonna have to figure out how to back up my shit and then I'll have to try running an install.
Holy shit, that's based.
Also, I should have specified, I have a couple random NE2000 compatibles, some Etherlink III ISAs, NatSemi AT/Lantics, and even some old Novell-branded AUI/Token Ring cards that I might be able to run in this system.
>I have a couple random NE2000 compatibles, some Etherlink III ISAs, NatSemi AT/Lantics, and even some old Novell-branded AUI/Token Ring cards that I might be able to run in this system.
You should be set then.
Be careful with NE2000 "compatibles." Although the NE2000 drivers may work, there are often issues, so you should go with manufacturer drivers if you can.
>first computer was a old C64 because my parents didn't want me to break anything expensive
>next was an XP machine
>can't stop feeling I really missed out on a lot of cool stuff since by the time I was online and properly self-aware, we were already in the smartphone-facebook-tablet-macs-use-intel age, which seems much more boring and centralized.
On the plus side, I can retroactively buy old systems for a fraction of what they cost when they were new. Still not the same as having a chance to experience them 'fresh' though.
>first computer was a win 95 hand-on
>default screensaver was starfield
>even now it makes me feel things
I miss the maze and pipes as well..
Also all those geocities sites...Yeah, they sucked, but it made the internet feel so much more personal than what it is now.
That's what was really lost on the internet in recent years.
So, I'm thinking about buying a Radeon 9800 Pro for a Windows 98 retro gaming rig. I know it's pretty overkill but it has drivers for 98, and it would be used in an old Pentium 4/half gig of RAM shitbox that I have.
Good idea/bad idea?
This is still one of my favourite looking apple hardware designs.
Is a Pentium-133 with 64 MB of RAM and a Trio64 acceptable for running a minimal Debian install?
I mostly want to run textmode stuff like Lynx and maybe IRC so I can get on the internet with DOS boxes without struggling with Ethernet.
Anyway, continued from the last thread. Earl Weaver Baseball. This game had an extremely advanced engine for its time (1987) and in fact (graphics aside) is still quite sophisticated. The animations are highly detailed and it takes into account various environmental factors like wind and natural/Astroturf. You can customize stadiums, teams, players, etc, and even play an entire 162-game season (there are no playoffs unfortunately)
CGA, EGA, Tandy, and AT&T/Olivetti (!)* graphics are supported. VGA had just come out when the game was released, and it does throw in some token support for that by using the palette registers to select nicer colors than the default CGA palette, which you'd get if the game were run on a real CGA/EGA card. The EGA graphics are comparatively performance-demanding, which is why the game includes two options for it (write directly to the registers on the card or use the BIOS, which ensures compatibility on all machines but is considerably slower). This also explains the palette swap feature added for CGA mode (if you were forced to use CGA on a slower machine, it should at least look nice)
*sadly, there's no way to run this mode on emulation
The programmer of EWB (Eddie Brombauer - funny, he even sounds like a baseball player) made a whole string of computer baseball games for 10 years before moving on to other projects. He apparently works for Etrade now and owns the rights to all his games (thankfully not Electronic Farts)
This is another classic from near the end of the DOS era, Old-Time Baseball. Pit players from the 1890s to 1981 against each other. The most interesting part about OTB is that they got Mel Allen himself to record the in-game commentary. One of the programmers described it as follows:
"Mel was an absolute pleasure to work with. He amazed us with how sharp he was at his age (83), even catching mistakes we didn't notice. For example, when he was reading off a list of players' names, he realized that he was starting to sound too sing-songy, paused, and said 'No, no, no, that's not right.'"
I'm older than Windows 95 by almost a year, which makes me the tripfag elder. I did use it when I was little because the neighbors gave us a Compaq Presario as our first real computer. I played Magic Carpet on it and it had the MS EasyBall. My family's first new computer was bought in 2002, a HP Pavilion from walmart with a Celeron "Tualatin"
You don't necessarily need an actual monitor because it also has NTSC output, although 80-column text will be too fuzzy unless you have a monochrome composite monitor like the Apple Monitor ///. Graphics also have loads of NTSC artifacts which games sometimes use for color (one of the unique properties of CGA)
There's any number of games that are not compatible with VGA because they do low-level register access on the CGA card, mostly early stuff from before 1986. The 70Hz refresh of VGA also throws off some games.
Seeing all these 9x threads made me want to build an "old" computer again.
I managed to assemble 2 computers: one with an unknown Pentium D and another with one with an Athlon XP 2000+. The Pentium has a shitty GF6200 LE on PCI-E, the Athlon has an onboard S3 Unichrome. I can't use the GF6200 on the athlon because there's no PCI-E on the motherboard.
Which one to pick and why? I tried installing 98SE it seems to be working.
Did anyone actually tried WIN98 with an dual core processor?
>Did anyone actually tried WIN98 with an dual core processor?
On some systems, but not all, you may need to use the undocumented switches for Windows Setup to be able to complete properly (not because of the multiple cores, but because of speed/microarchitectural differences.)
Once the OS is installed, it works, but the CPU will be at full load due to 9x's lack of HALT states.
You can add support for halt instructions by installing DOSIDLE in AUTOEXEC, then Rain or CpuIdle Extreme in Windows Startup.
System won't detect or make use of second core. DOS/9x can't into symmetric multiprocessing.
I think that Athlon XP will be a better match. A lot of people clung to Win98 still during that era. I knew several who refused to move to 2k/xp.
It should be easy to find a new graphics card for your system. Lots of cheap PCI and AGP cards on ebay. Got mine for 7.50 pounds, with free international postage.
Don't you have a desktop/battlestation critique thread to go back to?
Can you guys leave it the fuck alone for once? Who cares if his last name was Israel? He wasn't even a Jew. The second anyone hears anything remotely Jewish sounding or any mention of Israel, and the stormfags come out in full force.
DAE remember the glorious RISC OS on Acorn computers. I used these in school before they upgraded to win05
Are you from the UK? I have never had the privilege of using an Acorn computer before. The GUI is excellent for the time it was made. It looks better than Windows 95 by quite a stretch.
Linux supports that. I assume Debian built their kernel to support it as well.
Dammit, haha, replied before I saw that. I just thought that though. That's interesting that you used them at school. My school used Macs exclusively, but in my high school years we had Intel Macs that had Windows XP on them with bootcamp.
The reason some of those games take that much CPU usage is because the programmers were incompetent and never thought to put any delays in the game loop to future-proof their games for newer, faster CPUs.
It's actually not that difficult to disassemble those games (a la OllyDbg) and figure out where to inject ASM code that's the equivalent of Sleep (1) in C. Yes, even a 1 ms delay would drop CPU usage from full load all the way down to the 1-5% range on a modern CPU.
Only the media students had macs at the highschool I went to. They had those G3 iMacs. It wasn't until after highschool that I experienced something other than Windows myself.
Everyone around me told me macs sucked, and that I should avoid them, but I've always wanted to get my hands on one. Never been the "this isn't windows, this sucks" kind of guy. This is why I think things usually don't suck as much as people say they do. Never though Vista and Me was that bad. They're pretty much the same as any other version of Windows.
What? No actual retro shit like Commodore Basic, CP/M?
And retro computers isn't 'retro software'. Show me the TRS-80 you're using and I'll say you have a retro computer thread.
BTW: I have sealed boxed copies of OS/2 3.0 - any idea what they would go for, /g/?
Not expecting much... just wondering.
The fact that he included "DOS" when he clearly meant "MS-DOS" in particular tells you all you need to know. Twentysomething normalfags who think the entire history of personal computing is Windows and Macintosh.
No love for Norwegian home computers? I don't think I've ever seen one myself. Everyone had Amigas or PC clones when I grew up.
You forgot MSX
I guess it's KIND OF a japanese computer, but it was also big in brazil and scandanavian countries in europe. Also the soviet union.
I have a tandy 1400LT laptop - runs DOS 3.10. And I got all of the stuff in this image for $15 at a HAMfest - it all works.
Commodore 64, 811 printer, OS/2 3.0 CD-ROM's - sealed in original plastic wrap, and an apple //e composite monitor - I use it for playing my old game systems since I still can't find an apple II. It's nice that I can calibrate it so easily with color bars, and it's colors are REALLY good for a composite connection and consumer set. I cracked it open and there are even unused contact points for component video signals! YpBpr mod will hopefully be done soon.
We actually had G3 Macs up through middle school (my district was poor). We were actually using Netscape in the mid-2000s. Even in high school, some of the labs had the 700mhz G4 eMacs (like an iMac but shittier). Shit sucked.
WAR OF THE GENERATIONS
I am 19 years old. I am almost young enough to consider XP to be retro. Older versions of Windows (especially NT/2000) are still relevant since Windows is still the predominant desktop OS. We can actually learn from them. I didn't think to take advantage of many of the great administrative tools and features, such as Performance Monitor, in Windows XP/Vista/7/8 before I saw them in Windows NT.
I'm not OP, but I am 19 and I did all these posts:
don't judge people by age - OP is still fucking stupid though. Being <20 just isn't the reason why. He's just stupid.
Shit, they still had those in my old (high)school in 2010. I saw one in the back of a science room. I assume it had some tool attached for monitoring that wasn't compatible with newer machines.
Before that, computing teacher was using the Acorn as an example of system with a ROM-based OS, if I remember right. I assume the ones the school still had in their science department were ex-computing department.
I was... let's see... NEGATIVE 13 years old when the IBM PC was introduced. I don't even remember commodores, really, and my first computer was a pentium III dell. BUT, I am still nostalgic for the stuff from before I was even born, not when I was 6.
I am especially nostalgic for old television broadcasting equipment (VPR-2's, 70's ampex tech)
Nostalgia helps you to keep you grounded. Its what helps you remember where you came from and where you are now. And none of that might have happened if it were for this shitty thing we thought was good when we were 6.
Thinking windows 2000 is 'retro'. it's not retro for at least another ten years. And anyway, I think 'retro' really means just 60's thru early 80's - definitely not an OS made in 1999.
I used win2k as an example, troll. 98, 95 etc are still not retro, but i was making a point about 1990's stuff not being retro. And anyway, how is something released in 1999 (win2k) retro, while XP (released 2 years after win2k) is NOT? With that narrow of a gap between allowed and not allowed, I think that OP is simply a fucking moron.
Now go back to /b/, troll.
oh, so now we're calling stuff that support dropped for in mid-2000's retro. Whatever. let's call last year's roxio products (which it already probably dropped support for) 'retro' by that tag.
What about an early prototype of XP?
NT (2000) kernel, Millenium shell.
Retro is fuzzy. That's why early OSX is "Tolerated" but XP is not. Especially since people still use XP daily, while Win-2000 is not used as such in the home in any great numbers.
The failure to note the classic 8-bit systems like the C64 is problematic, but we can just take note and list it in the next thread.
Just leave it. Arguing contributes nothing.
I would personally like to see it (since it's uncommon to see and could be interesting).
I excluded them to keep the thread from being too cluttered. There's only so much discussion you can get into 300 posts particularly when 40% of them are wasted on troll posts and flaming.
My gamecube and playstation are almost 20 years old - but that's not retro yet.
My Game Boy Advance is 3 years shy of 20 - but that's not retro yet.
MIDI is about 40 years old - it's not retro yet. People still use it - possibly the only place where real DIN plugs are used today.
nostalgic = longing for something you experienced in the past
you cannot have nostalgic for something you never experienced.
longing for a past you never experienced is called rose tinted glasses syndrome.
I thought Whistler looked pretty nice.
There's no problem of clutter with those systems, but not being mentioned in the OP doesn't seem to discourage posting them.
This thread is already pretty slow compared to many other recurring threads on other boards.
It supported multiprocessor systems, and that's Firefox 12 you see running in the background.
It actually does a damn decent job at browsing the web, all things considered.
Flash support is a bit spotty, though.
I have a Tandberg Data terminal with that same keyboard.
Windows 2000 isn't really retro but there's really no other place to post about it. I'm not OP but I really don't mind him including that kind of stuff, it doesn't really shit up the thread because the userbase is really small.
The thing is that considering the very short life of computers in the hands of consumers and how quickly the hardware ages, Retrocomputing is more 1995 and before. I can't really guarantee you that anyone here is running hardware from the '60s, '70s, even the early '80s aside from muh Commodore 64 isn't really common outside of specific communities.
Windows XP doesn't belong here because the userbase is still so much larger than 2000, that a few 2000 users running on late '90s and early 2000s rigs aren't going to shit up the thread like opening this up to XP users probably would, that and XP is still discussed on /g/ elsewhere while it's pretty hard to find a place to talk about shit like this without being mired in shitposting from /v/ refugees.
This screenshot shows the window border decorations a bit better.
It was less than thrilled about doing Windows updates after 15 years.
Why doesn't Redmond ever plan ahead!?
Damn that looks good.
Brings back memories of using Trillian, they had a 'Whistler' theme for the longest time.
That implies I think that the past was necessarily better. In many ways, technology wasn't better - certainly it wasn't simpler from a user perspective. I'm more interested in older stuff because it's got two things:
a) A more 'open box' approach (easily user-serviceable, no surface mount components)
b) a lot of learning potential - with all the ugly internals hidden in modern hardware and software, proprietary screws used to hide things from the user, and a general hostility towards tinkerers, I have to learn on the older stuff. I certainly know more about how a computer actually works than any of my classmates with better grades in math classes/programming classes, because I don't follow the beaten path of using the language the instructor recommends, or doing the same thing everyone else does. I try to dig deeper and see WHY python works, or HOW a CPU's registers work. I'm not even in calculus and I am the only one in my H.S. graduating class who already knew x86 assembly. I learn for knowledge's sake.
I think anything that isn't contemporary can be considered retro, but I usually just say "old". Don't have to deal with people who follow a different definition of what retro means.
I walked into GAME earlier this year. They have this poster with the words "Retro" on top. The picture was of a PS2.
>retro 1 |?r?tr??|
imitative of a style or fashion from the recent past: retro 60s fashions.
noun [ mass noun ]
retro clothes, music, or style: a look which mixes Italian casual wear and American retro.
ORIGIN 1960s: from French rétro, abbreviation of rétrograde ‘retrograde’.
>retro 2 |?r?tr??|
short for retrorocket.
1 denoting action that is directed backwards or is reciprocal: retrocede | retroject.
2 denoting location behind: retrosternal | retrochoir.
ORIGIN from Latin retro ‘backwards’.
This as well, but a lot of stuff we consider retrocomputing was supported for a long time after it had fallen out of common use.
I have a pair of TRS-80s, two PETs, even some really early (1976) Z80 computers made by Zilog for sales demos and development. It's just not really as common to find people who do this kind of stuff on /g/ compared to other communities, nor is there really a reason to divide it when you can just lump it all into one.
valid point - OP is simply as idiotic as the people who claim the PS2 is retro. Hell, the IBM PS/2 isn't retro yet, either - the keyboard is, though, because it was introduced about 10 years before the PS/2 was, and simply adapted to fit the PS/2 when it came out.
It's understandable for brits because their Amigas were nothing more than 500 models with maybe 1MB of RAM and only 2 disk drives (only one external, why buy a third? That cost monies!). So I think for them it's just another console.
I have a Thinkpad 380D with Windows 95. I can use DEBUG or QBASIC to do simple programming on it.
My HP laptop with Windows 8...how the heck do I do that? There's no way to even write a console mode program in asm that displays "Hello World!".
That community makes me somewhat afraid of owning an Amiga. People like that Dan Wood character seems pretty decent, but there are so many creeps and numbnuts.
I used to hang out in one of the many IRC channels. One guy there used to send me pictures of himself , while the rest would argue that everything new happening to PCs now was done by the Amiga 20 years earlier. Like when dual-core CPUs became a thing. They'd argue that the Amiga had that since it had a CPU and dedicated processors for audio and video.
I just don't want to deal with that kind of bullshit. I can't say Windows gamer types and macfags are that great either tho. At least I've never gotten creepy msgs from a random northerner on IRC.
Many window managers for xorg have themes that tries to replicate that look. I think the theme is usually called "crux". I used it myself long before I knew it tried to clone the Windows look.
I will admit that I've never seen people that autistic among C64 or retro PC guys.
Of course 90% of retro PC guys are interested in 90s-era VGA DOS games; only a few weirdos are into the CGA/EGA stuff from the 80s.
>They'd argue that the Amiga had that since it had a CPU and dedicated processors for audio and video
So then the Atari 400/800 should get that honor since they predated the Amiga by 6 years.
i'm not sure why you're bringing up calculus and then talking about "knowing x86 assembly" (i'm doubting this knowledge is beyond elementary) in the same sentence.
calculus in programming is applicable in very specific cases such as velocity and acceleration in input device drivers or graphics programming. knowing calculus has little to no correlation to your programming ability beyond those examples.
also, i know you're only 19, but don't compare yourself to former high school students, or even your college classmates. it's not a reasonable metric, and it'll become more obvious when you get older.