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Let's talk Desktop Environments (NO...
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Let's talk Desktop Environments (NO WMs PLEASE). I'm looking for a desktop environment for Linux, and sadly, it seems that the older generation desktop environments were more functional and feature-filled than Gnome Shell and Unity. Now I'm trying to decide between Linux Mint MATE and Xubuntu. So what do you guys use and why?

TL;DR
What DE (NO WM'S) do you guys use and why?
>>
dwm
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>>42566687
This is bait
>>
>>42566687
i3
>>
dskthrdwm
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>>42566702
Why bait? It's a serious question. Many of the new DE's have regressed and have no functionality, missing features that the previous generations included. The new generation of De's have replaced the features with some animations and require tweak tools to gain just some of the functionality you had OOTB with the previous generation.
>>
whats the difference between DE and WM
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>>42566742
DE means a pile of shit bundled together so that you have no idea what it does.
WM means something that's simple to grasp and you can make it the way you want.
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>>42566742
A DE comes fully functional with programs, software to change settings, etc. out of the box whereas a WM usually requires separate installs of programs, editing text files for change options, etc.
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>>42566766
>>42566774
okay i got it, thank
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bspwm
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>>42566687
KDE.
I love the standard fedora20 version.
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>>42566687

Xubuntu, because xfce delivers a full featured desktop environment, looks good out of the box and can be easily styled and controlled to the users liking over GUI. Almost no terminal work necessary.
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>>42566698
>>42566703
>>42566710
>>42566806

You are wrong ITT, guys.
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What's the difference between a window manager and a desktop environment? Aren't they both almost the same?
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>>42567506
>_>
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>>42567506
Nevermind, didn't read the whole thread.
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>>42567506

A window manager is usually part of a desktop environment:

>A window manager is system software that controls the placement and appearance of windows within a windowing system in a graphical user interface.[1] Most window managers are designed to help provide a desktop environment.
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KDE.
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>>42566703
mah nigga
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>>42566687
What features is gnome missing that shitfce has?
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>>42567537
>KDE

This. A lot of people say it looks shitty out of the box, but you can customize everything.

>inb4, muh bloat
>>
>>42567576
I got openSUSE, and everything I did to make it better was change the window colours to Krita 50%, window decisions to some dark one, and the icon pack to Evolvere.
Oh yes, and add two more virtual desktops.
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>>42567612
>decisions
how even
*decorations
>>
>>42567576

>but you can customize everything.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154535
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>>42567541

Everything,
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>>42567629

Also; you can't just use the super key to start launching apps in KDE (unlike any other modern desktop) without the add-on hack ksuperkey.

What a joke.
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>>42566687

I use GNOME 3, pic related.

Maybe it isn't as customizable and full featured as KDE, but I find it nice to use. Besides, I rarely use DEs that are not GNOME based, so it's a habit as well.

So far it runs well, I like the dynamic workspace thing, and the interface that pops up when you press super combines something like mission control, a universal search and a launcher on the side which is a great idea. I can set a keyboard shortcut for everything else and I really haven't found any features that I need that are missing in GNOME.
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>>42567396
I don't know, the project looks dead with no updates in two years, whereas MATE is in active development. Plus you need to install and configure compton, unless you want video tearing.
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>>42566687
KDE everything else is shit
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>>42567859
What sucks is that you literally have to hope that there's an extension for every single thing you want to change. If you look in your settings, you realize that there's no options to change anything. Your only hope is if some random person made an extension, but even then it may break on the next update.
>>
I know what you mean in regards to how the environments are shit now. I remember using GNOME 2 and I could change the color of the window and the text to anything I wanted by just clicking on that color wheel that it had. Now I am stuck with a shitty green color for all my windows - I used to be able to change that shit to blue, too! What happened?

Then there's the dumbed-down system settings - not nearly as good as when Compiz was around, nowhere near as intuitive. Now all the stuff that was with Compiz got split apart into all the different settings. It just felt like I could do more in the GNOME 2 environment - I never really liked the look of KDE, or how every application began with a K - once KDE 4 came out with the annoying foot in the corner, I knew I was never going to switch to it. GNOME 3 did similar shit, and I was thinking "Fuck this"

I applied some fixes to my Desktop Environment - mainly the color of windows so it wouldn't use as much battery and so I could browse at night and not wake my lady as she's asleep next to me. Pic related (I might receive some hate for how I themed it, but fuck the police, right?)
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Is there a difference between installing Xubuntu rather than installing Ubuntu minimal and xfce-desktop?
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>>42568051
Is that Mate or Cinnamon? Not really my type of theme, but that's the great thing about Linux and desktop environments that allow customization, you can theme it how you like.
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>>42567396
Has anyone tried playing steam games in XFCE? Does it work well and do you need to turn off compositing first?
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>>42567927

Tweak Tool exposes many things not included in core settings.
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>>42568146
Cinnamon, I believe. It took me 20 to 30 minutes of messing with hex codes and restarting the desktop environment before I got it down. In GNOME 2, it would have taken maybe a couple of minutes.

At least I can still customize it, but it's a way bigger hassle than it used to be.
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>>42568183
Yeah, a few things like the dark mode, but not as much as it should. You still need to rely on extensions to add features and options that should be included as default, and were actually included as default in Gnome 2.
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>>42568250
Yeah, Gnome 2 had a damn color picker even, if my memory serves me correctly. They removed features and called it the newest and greatest.
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>>42568372

>should be included

Such as?
>>
I've been forcing myself to stick with cinnamon and not use my usual i3 since a few weeks ago and I like it over. One thing I don't like about it is that you can't easily hide the titlebars on windows. Used openbox for a while and got really used to having that.
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Is there a difference between installing Xubuntu rather than installing Ubuntu minimal and xfce-desktop, panel adjustment, settings for the launcher on the left side, settings for the workspaces, etc.
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>>42566687
I use Xubuntu because I love Xfce (for me, especially with the Compton compositor and a nice cohesive Numix theme, it strikes a perfect balance between visual appeal / eye candy and functionality), and Ubuntu has great font rendering OOTB, and a huge support community. With Xubuntu, you get a wonderfully snappy Lignux distro with all the benefits of Ubuntu, and none of the laggy botnet nonsense of the Unity DE. It's a great, stable, lightweight and efficient environment, and I plan on sticking with it until LXDE goes full LXQt (unless Xfce starts working on wayland support, in which case I'll be sticking with Xfce forever).
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>>42568449

Well for one, how about the fact that you need to do the following just to create a folder in the activities view. The folders are an option they implement and then force you to play with dconf to create folders, are they as autistic as most of /g/?

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/05/add-categories-to-gnome-shell-dashboard
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GTK is deprecated so that leaves you only with Qt and KDE
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>>42569716
Yea bro, show me your desktop. Here's mine now.
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>>42566687
MATE is in active development and is well supported. XFCE is dead in the water.

If you have a modern computer choose Cinnamon.
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>>42569770
hah! mine is actually really similar. i wish there were more better designed themes for xfce than all the numix variations, but nothing seems to tie the environment together like those types of themes, yet at-least. and holy shit, we're using the same wallpaper.
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i build cinnamon from the head of master every month or two. it's great.
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>>42570021
Xfce is by no means dead, it still receives fixes and stability updates on the reg. If they don't move towards full Gtk3 support and start working on wayland shit though, then yeah, the situation will definitely change for the worse.
>>
Cinnamon because it's sane, traditional and mostly up-to-date. Still young, but pretty solid.
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>>42570076
>If they don't move
Free software projects are notoriously slow. If they haven't started it's already too late IMO.
>>
openSUSE with KDE is beautiful, easy, and customizable.
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If you have a working GPU, KDE is the way to go.
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KDE is best.
It's the most featureful and therefore best
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>>42570076

what you described is a project that's out to pasture. xfce is in a state where you can keep using it if you're already on it, but it is not a project with a future. it's not something you move onto.
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I use Xfce because it's lightweight compared to DEs like KDE and it allows more time out of a charge.
It's also very rice-able which I initially thought it wasn't
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>>42566687
Cinnamon.
Looks delicious and works fine.
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>>42568156
I've played some games. It's a little buggy (Rust kept crashing, chalk it up to what you will, Garry's mod is like lol, resources are capitalized? Nope.png) but most of the problems stem from the fact that
>linux got no game


>inb4 windows shill
I fucking love linux take that back fggt
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>>42570109
KDE is shit by default but openSUSE makes it alright, not good, but alright.
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>>42569770
Does the xfce button look like that by default or did you customize it? Considering jumping to xfce soon.
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Not sure why anyone would choose something other than KDE
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use fuking kde, anyone who disagrees is an autist or gtk brain damage victim
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>>42570293
KDE is too bloated.
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>>42570249
That's the default in Xubuntu.
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>>42570249
That's the default look on the xfce whisker menu. The normal application menu looks like gnome 2. Whisker menu is sex
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>unity
rudypoo please..
>gnome
im not suprised if it continues to get worse
>xfce
good stuff, like old gnome
>kde
im gonna test this next
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>>42570317
>>42570330
Kinda hoping it'll look that if I install it on Ubuntu. Not sure though.
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>>42570316
/g/ claims to be power users yet calls any software that caters to power users bloated
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>>42570352
DEs don't cater to power users. That's what WM are for
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>>42570351
If it doesn't just right click the panel and add it through the settings.
>>
Enlightenment - Beauty at your fingertips
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>>42570377
Yeah I'll install it a bit later, let's see how it goes. I'll whisker menu that shit instantly.
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>>42570366
False. Autism wms make everything take extra work for the sake of it.

Name a feature in your tarded wm that kwin does not also have.
Tagging? kwin can do it with window rules - and it doesn't require niggering about in text files and running scripts manually to grab window class names to define rules.
Tiling? not sure if there's a new plugin for kwin out yet for it, but it supports it
tabbed windows? Oh right, your autism wm doesn't support this feature

Just because a DE can make complicated tasks easily accessible does not mean it's not for power users. In fact it makes the features AVAILABLE so that you can USE your computer rather than sit around configuring it
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>>42570436
>tabbed windows? Oh right, your autism wm doesn't support this feature
What do you mean
i3 has this
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>>42566687
XFCE, specifically Xubuntu
It was my first, and then my replacement for the God-tier all hail the king benevolent overlord of them all Gnome 2 when they drank paint and shat out gnome 3.
Plus, is comfy.
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I use XFCE primarily and it's great.
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>>42570586
i3 and fluxbox have it, but does i3 have a built-in compositor?
Does i3 have a settings module to download scripts to alter how it works?

Hell does it even have a scripting framework or do you have to hack it all in like a trad if you want to change its behavior?
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OP, don't confuse MATE and Cinnamon. A lot of people do so.
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>>42570645
You're looking at it at the wrong way. WMs don't come with all those features because people who use them don't want them, and if they do, they want to be able to install their feature of choice themselves. It's a feature.

>i3 and fluxbox have it, but does i3 have a built-in compositor?
You can install your favorite one yourself, the most popular one is compton.

>Does i3 have a settings module to download scripts to alter how it works?
Again, people want to do this themselves from their repository of choice, or alter it themselves. dotshare.it is a good place for this.

>Hell does it even have a scripting framework
Wait what? What for? WMs already use working languages like XML (Openbox) or bash (herbtsluftwm).

I like KDE myself but, again, people who use WMs aren't looking for all those things by default.
>>
>GNOME3
Personally it's like Windows 8, great yet has a few minor annoyances which can be removed via customization.
>KDE
I really want to try out 5, i'd rather not try 4 again.
>XFCE
meh, it works and is lightweight. like Windows XP.
>LXDE
Read above
>MATE
read above...
>Cinnamon
Read above...
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>>42570862
>You can install your favorite one yourself, the most popular one is compton.
I could use compton alongside kwin if I chose, but kwin has a far superior one built in.

>Again, people want to do this themselves from their repository of choice, or alter it themselves. dotshare.it is a good place for this.
kwin can do this - there's an import script button as well as getting it from the main online repository

>Wait what? What for? WMs already use working languages like XML (Openbox) or bash (herbtsluftwm).
>What for?
For altering the core functionality and behavior of the window manager. xml does not count - openbox is ewmh compatible so I suppose it can be scripted, but please never consider xml to be a ``language'' It's akin to saying you program in html
>or bash (hashkdjsahdwm)
Yeah I suppose you can script any ewmh compliant wm, but not change its core functionality.

Wms you can do this on would be things like dwm or awesome or their brethren. You have to write actual code though instead of using a nice handy API provided by the wm like kwin has

>WMs don't come with all those features because people who use them don't want them
terrible autist-tier reason there, though I understand in their mind it's legitimate.
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>>42570970
>Wms you can do this on would be things like dwm or awesome or their brethren. You have to write actual code though instead of using a nice handy API provided by the wm like kwin has
What. Every WM out there is open source, you can do the same thing you do on dwm on any of them. KDE needs a scripting language to change its core functionality because it's so fucking bloated no one would ever want to look into its code like you can with WMs.
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>>42571015
It's not the same. You'd have a nigger of a time writing modifications for window managers that were not designed with plugins/additions in mind.

kwin and compiz, for example were designed from the ground up to have user-addable features

dwm has been kept small to allow for users to add features

awesome has a framework that's a lot lower level than plugins from kwin or compiz, but still largely ``user friendly''

The point I'm ultimately trying to make is this: autist tier window managers really don't offer anything to users that something like kwin does not offer.

Each may have one thing it focuses on but kwin manages to touch that one thing from each wm and encompass it all under one house.
>>
kde
all else is gay as shit and might as well be for macfags or crusty old neckbears
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>>42571074
tl;dr

stop belittling DE users - they can do everything you do but easier
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>>42571114
>stop belittling DE users
Wait what? You're the victim now? After he just comes here to write huge posts about how WMs are for autists and shit?
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>>42570316
DE users belittled and accused of using bloat here >>42571162
First signs of shots being fired in this discussion
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>>42570076
>Xfce is by no means dead, it still receives fixes and stability updates on the reg.

the fuck? not it doesn't... it only gets translations these days.
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>>42566687
DWM for single monitor setup
Xfce for multi monitor setup.

For some reason, I can't get DWM's 'unified tag' diff to work with all of my other modifications.
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>>42566687
If you really are stupid and need some bloat, install Lubuntu-desktop. It comes with Lxpanel and openbox.
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>>42566687
Got a gaymen computer? Use GNOME. It's the best desktop, despite its retarded devs. It's also the heavy as shit and bloated, but the UX is second to none.
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>>42571660
>dwm
>Not using bspwm
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>>42571719
>bspwm
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Bspwm has no ready plugins. I would have to write all modifications for it myself.
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>>42570645
What theme?
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>>42571561
>it only gets translations these days.
dead wrong: http://git.xfce.org/?s=idle

yes, it gets a shit ton of translation updates, but you can see a good deal of bug fixes and sensible feature additions in the past year alone.
>>
KDE.
I've tried everything that exists (even ROX) and nothing satisfies me.
KDE isn't perfect, but much better than GNOME or XFCE.
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>>42569770
Mine looked really shitty earlier. Posted it up in a Desktop Thread, and someone pointed me to Conky stylizing and the /g/Wiki for Ricing.
Finally got it looking SOMEWHAT decent.
Just can find a wall paper I like.
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>>42571930
fusion
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>>42572246
it's beautiful
>>
Xfce. It has its issues (similar settings all spread across different dialogs), but it's nice (especially Xfce's panels -- MATE panels a shit) and works well. Nicer configuration than KDE too.

it's not that light though, KDE4 uses 300 or so MB from cold boot, XFCE is about 250 -- kubuntu vs xubuntu default desktop
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>>42572314
t-t-thanks... you too /g/chan ;_;
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>>42566687
>it seems that the older generation desktop environments were more functional and feature-filled
Yup. Gnome 2 and KDE 3 were fantastic. Then KDE 4 happened and it was awful until 4.10 (it's still not as good as KDE 3 was for its time), and gnome happened and it was worse than hitler, and then unity happened and it was about as bad as hitler.

Mate is a buggy piece of shit that's incompatible with most modern technology. Not very surprising since they have fuckall devs, though.
XFCE is a buggy piece of shit that's compatible with most modern technology. Surprising considering how many devs they have. Also shit.
LXDE actually works well enough for low-end machines, KDE in its current state is actually very good though there's a bunch of features (such as activities) that you have to ignore because they're incomplete and shitty. The rest of the features are really, really good (krunner, kate, konsole, ksnapshot, notifications and dolphins are truly fantastic, but dragon player, activities gwenview are fucking awful).

Neither linux mint nor xubuntu are DE's.
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>>42570205
It's got civ5 and wakfu and will have TW3. That's all you need this decade.
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>>42572059
My sentiment (and experience) exactly.
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>>42573404
lmfao
you have to be trolling, xfeces was basically gnome 2 - no options edition
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>>42566687
i use kde and i love it

don't know why people hate it
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>>42573644
I think it's mostly plasma that's hated
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>>42572799
>and KDE 3 were fantastic.
wtf have you been smoking 10 years ago ?
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>>42573773
Something that didn't give me as much cancer as you, clearly.
>>
The thing about Unity is that it's great if you don't want to change much about it, and the things I do want to change are mostly possible so the functionality of the system meshes very well with my preferences, and I honestly don't want to change much else about it
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>>42572799
Can I remove these features such as activities and such, or are they built into it. Part of the reason I won't even consider KDE is because of the activities, cashew, nepomuk, etc. All just really useless garbage.
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>>42574149
I've actually found that Unity is easier to customize than Gnome, ironically enough.
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>>42574608
Unity Tweak Tool and CCSM are very nice in this regard, but certain aspects of Unity are still impossible/painful to alter. Which annoys the shit out of me from time to time.
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>>42574640
get a mac, no reason to customize
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>>42574580
You never have to use a fucking activity. You can't remove the cashew but you can hide it behind something else which is what I do.

nepomuk can be disabled with difficulty but it's really not that bad.
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>>42574687
You can also use pycashew or stealthcashew to hide the cashew. Nepomuk is a single click to disable it.
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