Daily reminder that the ONLY people who recommend veganism as

>>42733173
Wtf I never knew this. Thanks for letting me know OP

>>42733173
so if i roid it's okay to be vegan?

>>42733173
>>42733189
>wtf i hate vegans now

>>42733173
>2 lines later
>FREE test didn't change though
really got my noggin joggin

>>42733227
yes only if you roid
look at clarence0

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>>42733173
>tfw pretend to be vegan as a meat eating lifter because I look buffer than 98% of soybois
>instant alpha status with their circle when I'm just average in normal society
>still get to eat meat on the dl

It's the perfect scam lads.

>>42733173
>total t higher, but total t is meaningless
>free t is what counts, and it's the same
>still this paper supports my moronic bias somehow
/fit/

>>42733233
>>42733347
>there is no long term effects on having an overall lower total testosterone
kys

>>42733415
OK BUDDY
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2400756

>>42733459
>the vegans had 7% higher total T (P = 0.250), 23% higher SHBG (P = 0.001), 3% lower free T (P = 0.580), and 11% higher E2 (P = 0.194)

>the only one that has p < 0.01 is the bad one
Top kek. Has being vegan literally brain damaged you?

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>>42733173
>>42733347
>>42733459
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529694/#!po=57.9365
>>42733173
>Plasma levels of testosterone and estradiol-17 beta were significantly lower in the SV than in the omnivores.
>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127
>Blood concentrations of sex hormones did not differ after the two diets, but the mean testosterone:oestradiol value was 10% higher (P = 0.06) after the meat diet.
>http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11103227
>Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone.
>http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/0022473184902541
>A lower nocturnal release of prolactin and testosterone occurred in men fed a vegetarian diet...
>http://www.cancerletters.info/article/S0304-3835(79)80054-3/pdf
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html
>https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

>>42733233
>(((FREE)))
Falling for the hormonal Jew

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>>42733535
This. Male vegans are literally killing their hormones

>>42734019
what helps omnivores make more test, like what's the mechanism? is it just eating more fat? is it cheese? bacon? mcnuggets?

>>42733173
I respect people who recognize an ethical problem and are willing to change their lifestyles to mitigate it. That takes gumption.

But I don't think the ethical problem really exists, or if it does it is more complex then they believe it is.

Human suffering is always more important than animal suffering, I would always rather be cruel to an animal than let a human starve.

Also the people who can stay healthy while switching to a vegan diet are doing it from a place of extreme privilege, you cant stop eating meat if you aren't able to get b12 supps and buy all sorts of plant based vitamins and supplements from Whole Foods or whatever.

Still there's something to be said for someone who's willing to sacrifice their own happiness for their idea of the greater good.

>>42734067
Probably
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6538617
>Serum testosterone and 4-androstenedione decreased from 22.7 +/- 1.1 nmol/l to 19.3 +/- 1.2 nmol/l, (SEM, P less than 0.001) and from 4.6 +/- 0.2 nmol/l to 4.3 +/- 0.2 nmol/l (SEM, P less than 0.01), respectively. These changes were paralleled by a reduction in serum free (non-protein bound) testosterone (P less than 0.01)

>>42733305
stop posting this, no one cares
here's your (you)

>>42734270
what about vegans who eat a normal amount of fat (like a normal, non-meme, healthy diet) from nuts seeds etc? would they have the same level of free test as omnivores? a study like this really needs to be done

>>42733173
Peta
>We want to help animals
>We kill nearly all animals people give us to care about

Why do people even listen to those hypocrites?

>>42734067
Lower fat and probably the fact that the majority of vegans don't lift

>>42734414
>>42734067
This
I'll eat a 2 foot long gyro the second a study comes out that says "vegans have lower free test EVEN WHEN adjusted for BMI, bf%, activity level, macro intace ratio, covering of all micros" etc, and it has a respectable (>10000) sample size
Until then it's all clickbait, speculation and shitposting

>>42733305
>lie about your life to impress some shitty attitude snobs
why would you do this? have you no integrity, lad?

>>42734806
>Until then it's all clickbait, speculation and shitposting
No you're just retarded

>>42734806
yeah results are definitely skewed by the popular low fat vegan meme. i seriously doubt there's a difference in test if we're comparing non-meme diets

>>42735493
>you're retarded for not taking anons' claims on the internet for granted but rather questioning research
ok

>>42735893
>mountains of consistent and well done research
>well done
Not at all
>>42734806
>EVEN WHEN adjusted for BMI, bf%, activity level, macro intace ratio, covering of all micros" etc, and it has a respectable (>10000) sample size
But feel free to correct me
It's been 4 months since I last had a fat greasy gyro anon, I'm really craving it. Please do your best.

>>42735856
>you're retarded for not taking anons' claims on the internet
Backed by mountains of consistent and well done research
>but rather questioning research
Yes, this is exactly why they are retarded. Oh wait, there are a few more reasons.
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html

>>42735950
>well done research
>co.uk/opinion
lol
also >>42735925

>>42735925
>Not at all
>Even further proof of being retarded
>>42735925
>But feel free to correct me
I want to believe that you're capable of reading, but you're not really convincing me
>It's been 4 months since I last had a fat greasy gyro anon, I'm really craving it. Please do your best.
Maybe if you ate a few you wouldn't not read and shitpost so much
>>42735970
>well done research
>lol
>More shitposting and not reading

>>42736017
I read all of the studies referenced and there is not a single one in which the researchers made sure to meet this >>42734806
>adjusted for BMI, bf%, activity level, macro intace ratio, covering of all micros" etc, and it has a respectable (>10000) sample size
So you have been humiliated once again

>>42734806
>EVEN WHEN adjusted for BMI, bf%, activity level, macro intace ratio, covering of all micros" etc, and it has a respectable (>10000) sample size
Fuck dude, if you ONLY relied on studies with >10000 sample sizes, there'll be basically no study worth reading.
Only studies that are that large are from pharmaceuticals testing their drugs

>actually know a girl irl who is a vegen and non-obnoxious
Granted she is in my graduate cohort so maybe the intelligence factor causes that but it is nice to know someone who does not fit the stereotype.

>>42736062
>So you have been humiliated once again
By what, more not reading and shitposting

>>42736972
The sample size is not the only thing missing from the studies shitposters like >>42737110 paste every thread

>>42733173
>Veganism is NOT meant for humans who want to keep their health intact
FTFY

>>42737145
The only thing that's missing is your usage of your brain

>>42738334
desu this

>>42733173
why the fuck was it necessary for them to put a gay pride ribbon on that shit? fuck i hate leftists

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The only thing to be concerned about on a vegan diet is soy consumption and lack of B vitamins.

Anything else is just trash

>b-but muh saturated fat and cholesterol increase test
Gee I guess I better clog my artheries in hopes for a 5% boost in testosterone(according to research funded by the poultry and american dairy associations) that would grant me an absolute grand total gain of 0.1kg in lean body mass at my absolute peak down the road.
Totally worth it.
>>42733535
>This shit copy pasta

>a pic that literally does not even fucking compare whey to other types of proteins, just shows the results of a smaller and a bigger dose of whey protein post workout supplementation in muscle protein synthesis(which is not even correlated with actual muscle gain)
>second study shared is literally comparing diets where "all protein"(you cannot actually avoid protein from plant sources at all, unless you're eating pure fucking sugar as your only carb source) comes from either meat or soybeans. Surprise surprise the diet that had all the protein coming from fucking soybeans had lower test, because soybeans are teh second natural highest estrogenic food in the world second only to hops. Doesn't even mention the fact that small intakes of phytoestrogens have estrogen blocking effects in humans.
>links a study that doesn't even compare a vegan or a vegetarian or a plant based diet to a normal one AT ALL, just that lower fat intakes CAN decrease androgen secretion and concentration in males, holy shit who could've guessed.
>A FUCKING STUDY SHOWING MEN ON A VEGETARIAN DIET HAVE LOWER PROLACTIN, A LITERAL HORMONE THAT PROMOTES MILK SECRETION IN MAMMALS AND GYNO GROWTH IN HUMAN MALES while ADMINISTRATING DEXAMETHASONE(a drug that literally disrupts male reproduction organ function in mammals). Also doesn't even take macro nutrient or caloric intake into account.
>A FUCKING CHAOS AND PAIN ARTICLE
>A FUCKING BREAKINGMUSCLE ARTICLE WITH CITATIONS WHO CANNOT LINK MEAT WITH HEALTH

>>42734865
>telling women the truth

I bet you pee sitting down too

>>42741453
I fucking dare you to post your body. Show all us sad omnivores the power of veganism. We all know you wont. Because we all know you look like a pathetic low test nu-male.

Stay mad bitch boy.

>>42742063
>i'm too dumb to deal with actual arguments
>SHOW ME YOUR HALF-NAKED BODY

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This guy is a vegan. There's a good chance he could punch your face in AND be fucking your girlfriend while he's doing it.

>>42742443
Whut? This manlet is about 5'-8" tall, with no back, and take a look at that non-existent bicep on his right chicken-bone. His mouth looks ready for his regular exercise mode though.

>>42733173
I'm an asthamtic. I heard it reduces the fucking flem storm inside my lungs and makes them better over all. Going to try it and see how it works.

Shit thread nigger

>>42742443
Is there a chance he's fucking lying?

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Yea, a plant based diet will make you weak and frail.

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John Joseph. Lead singer of the punk band The Cro Mags, triathlete and a vegan.

>>42742552
>triathlete
>aesthetic

pick one and only one

>>42742543
>lives in a zoo and has to survive in the wild thanks to the pity of another species
Plant based diet for life

>>42734019
>calling your son Crown Shakur
child abuse started before they began feeding him vegan

>>42741453
>Gee I guess I better clog my artheries
>Contrary to popular belief, consuming a higher amount of fat (about 35 per cent of energy) is associated with a lower risk of death compared to lower intakes. However, a diet high in carbohydrates (of more than 60 per cent of energy) is related to higher mortality, although not with the risk of cardiovascular disease.
>The research on dietary fats found that they are not associated with major cardiovascular disease, but higher fat consumption was associated with lower mortality; this was seen for all major types of fats (saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats and mono unsaturated fats), with saturated fats being associated with lower stroke risk. The researchers point out that, while this may appear surprising to some, these new results are consistent with several observational studies and randomized controlled trials conducted in Western countries during the last two decades.
>The large new study, when viewed in the context of most previous studies, questions the conventional beliefs about dietary fats and clinical outcomes, says Mahshid Dehghan, the lead author for the study and an investigator at PHRI.
>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170829091027.htm
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>http://www.uib.no/en/node/103172
>http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

I m disappointed there s not more pics of les vegan roid guys to show how ripped you can get just eating plants brahhhh

>>42742098
This is a fitness board you dumb ledditor. Why do you off website fags not even bother to learn board culture anymore? Quit being a self conscious homophobic little bitch.

>>42742552
Manlets! When will they learn?

>>42742543
Lmao it's funny that a vegcuck would be dumb enough to post a gorilla.

You know the reason human brains were able to grow is because our jaws shrank due to being able to eat cooked meat. Plant based diets literally cucked gorillas into being stupid.

>>42745174
>calling other people a dumb ledditor
>is vegan
pick one, anon

>>42745129
see >>42742443 >>42742552 >>42742543

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Mainly vegan eater here. I do binge on cheese (mainly on pizza) on the weekends though.

I think I look alright. Obviously I'm not huge or shredded but that has less to do with my diet being vegan and more with it being shit in general.

Thinking that a pig or cow is somehow above you or even on the same level as humans is pathetic. Vegans were always beta bitches

>>42737084
Hetro girls get protein from Chad

>>42745557
We know this pic already but nice try

>>42745736
well, I have posted it before

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>>42745736
in fact, here is another one. bit fatter in this one.

>>42733173
Every single vegan/vegetarian I've met is pudgy as fuck and lives off of cheese bread

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>>42745618
>he does not see how the meat industry hurts the planet, thus hurting humans

>>42745268

>still believing the evolution meme

>>42745929
>http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
>https://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
>https://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
>People who read books know a fact that vegetarians do not- that at one point in history, the Earth's total population of humans dropped to between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals, due to the eruption of Mt. Toba in Sumatra, which killed off most of the available plant and animal life on Earth in 71,000 BC. During this period of time, humans were confined to an
>extraordinarily small area of Africa that escaped glaciation, where they subsisted on a diet that was "approximately 50-70% meat and 50-30% plants, respectively." This diet was necessitated by the die-off of plants and animals, and the lack of a varied diet that could have been otherwise obtained though plant gathering. It was at this time that the Neanderthal diet came to consist of naught but meat, due to the complete lack of availability of edible vegetation, which likely lasted for at least 1000 years.(Plants/climate)
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html?zx=19c1d9e7ae7f06a5

>>42733173
>n=8

I hope there is special place in hell for people publishing articles about noise.

>>42745829
>Vegan
>Cheese bread
Lmao.

>>42747570
>implying modern 'cheese' is an animal product

Vegetable oil and stabilizers man.

>>42747581
Actually believing cheese isn't a dairy product LMAO. Of course there is filler in cheese nowadays but there is still dairy in it you dumb dumb.

>>42747608
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-recipe/10-vegan-cheeses-that-will-knock-your-socks-off/
https://www.thespruce.com/best-dairy-free-cheeses-1001581

kys.

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>>42747521
>a picture with no source
>mattering at all
also
>signs of low t
>include mood swings, decrease in bone density or muscle mass, increase in body fat, hair loss, depression, irritability
All things vegans have

>>42747639
None of that is real cheese though buddy. And it's not very great, I like how you assume I'm not vegan.

>>42734019
a dumb bitch refused to breast feed her child and soymilk actually says on the box don't feed to babies. idiots come in all forms this isn't about veganism.

>>42748230
>Full head of hair, like 14% BF, happier than I've ever been, more stable emotionally than any of my friends and family.
Veganism helped curb my depression DESU, never would've started eating right/giving a shit about fitness had it not been for this diet.

>>42748230
how is its head so big

>>42748266
>never would've started eating right/giving a shit about fitness had it not been for this diet.
>needing a diet to care about fitness
>needing a diet to do what hundreds of thousands of people do daily
Just pathetic, anon. Simply pathetic

>>42742543
>Spends all day eating plants to meet his caloric needs

That's why humans started eating meat dumbass

>>42748303
Neotany.
He's a poorly developed male

>>42748375
Clearly you never grew up in a poor household. Mcdonalds and other fast food garbage 24/7. You never realize how shitty you feel until you start eating right and I never would've done so if I didn't care about animals.

>>42748477
m8 what you call shitty I call bulking food

>>42748477
Clearly you don't realise you can choose what you want to eat since you're a fucking adult now

>>42748498
Oh shit Riff Raff posts here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dhNGdO8CvI

>>42748515
Yes but why change if you don't realize there is a problem? When you eat trash all the time you don't know what feeling "normal" or good feels like. So there was no reason for me to eat better until I started to thanks to my diet switch.

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>>42748526
No bullshit this is what first got me into lifting in the first place. The follow up a few years later where he is on tour and he's just fat hits too close man

>>42748575
You seem to think that the only other choice other than eating mcdonalds is being vegan.

>Yes but why change if you don't realize there is a problem
The type of people who don't already know eating mcdonalds everyday is bad for you are people who deserve to leave the gene pool anyway
Shit man. I don't know how many times I was forced to watch supersize me

>>42748661
Canuck land is much different friend. I knew it was bad for me you just don't grasp how bad until you make the switch. And you just don't seem to get it, I had 0 interest in eating healthy until I started to realize it's dishonest for me to love cats, dogs etc but eat meat. I'm not saying you HAVE to be vegan to be healthy I'm telling you MY personal experience.

>>42748757
>I had 0 interest in eating healthy
Well that's your own fault and you still deserve to leave the gene pool
>I'm telling you MY personal experience
which is shit, anon

You also can't exactly say that a vegan diet is the best you'll ever feel without switching to a normal diet

>>42748856
No reason to really switch anymore, I feel good about my life choices now.

>>42748887
But anon. You said the same thing before

>>42749004
Honestly even if eating meat was healthier I wouldn't do it. There is no way I'm eating worse than I was previously and I feel better about not bringing harm to my animal buddies. If there was some sort of issue and I HAD to eat meat I'd simply start eating insects or perhaps bi valves.

>>42734019
>Crown Shakur
Shit went south before they started feeding him vegan shit.

>>42749039
m8 you really need to get some protein in you seem to be braindamaged or something
I'm not suggesting you go back to eating mcdonalds every day
There's a difference between having a normal diet and eating like a slob

>>42749078
Read what I said; "There is no way I'm eating worse than I was previously". As in even if eating meat was healthier it would only be by a slight amount (A balanced omni diet vs strictly plant based).

>>42742543
except apes gorillas and chimps will eat meat. they just dont usually.

>>42745174
>this is a fitness board, reason and evidence not allowed, only naked men