>>35694032 oh and for the dips and rows do 5x5 or 3xf or whatever.leave a few reps room though especially if you start feeling like youre not recovering well enough. face pulls and calves preferably higher reps like 3-5x10-20 reps, curls p much whatever you want. i recommend trying myoreps for the dips and curls when you exhaust other methods. >>35694053 dips generally use more of the same musculature as benching than ohp so it makes more sense to do it after ohp.depends on how you do it though but since OHPing is easier to recover from anyway, id put dips on ohp day. face pulls doesnt really matter, id just pair them with chins rather than rows. rows would be better on the squat day since its a bit of a DL accessory but then youd have to chin on bench day which i think isnt as good as chinning with ohp as chins use some pecs. curls on the day with rows since they use less biceps than chins
>>35694232 pushups are definitely not necessary and shrugs aren't super important but if you want you could do them in the power clean workout, just cause a heavy deadlift would leave you pretty tired for the shrugs
when will people learn that fucking with programs is a bad idea. dudes with 1-2 years of lifting experience have no place fucking with a well established program to fit the needs of the OP who wants to add not one not two but five exercises into a strength routine.
OP, do SS properly and add the accessory exercises rippetoe recommends as planned. substitute power cleans for pendlay rows. forget face pulls, deads and rows are enough for your upper back. forget calves for now.
>>35694355 >do SS properly and add the accessory exercises rippetoe recommends as planned >substitute power cleans for pendlay rows oh the irony
chins >>>>>>> rows for upper back if you can only do one exercise. i agree, i wouldnt do calves and face pulls either but that stuff isnt heavy enough to harm anything either, really. but the dips and curls are fucking important, i did SS past 1/2/3/4 for reps and i regret not doing more arm work. if they start being a problem, its not that hard to start leaving more reps room or something
>>35694523 >don't fuck with the program. spoken like someone who hasn't done it. i did it by the book and i regret doing it that way. do fuck with the program. not a lot, but a couple of sets of chins and curls a week wont be a problem. >>35694525 why wouldnt it matter? >>35694546 disregard everything this guy says.
OP, who are you gonna believe? me, who says to do what it says in the book, the tried and true strength routine that makes newbs strong very quickly, or >>35694553 who seems interested in doing the opposite of that?
ripptetoe himself has said it is ok to add in the accessory lifts. listen to him, don't just throw them in as you like, do what he suggests. people who whine about not growing enough in the upper body on SS have probably misunderstood that SS is a STRENGTH routine and if they are interested in getting big muscles then they should be doing something else.
i'm advising you assuming that you have picked SS for strength, you know, since that's what the routine is for. others ITT seem to be coming from a bodybuilding perspective, but what they really should be saying is that if you want muscles over strength then SS is not for you.
>>35694646 im not interested in doing the opposite of that. ive done SS and im 100% sure my strength progress would not have been diminished if added chins and curls. i know because i did them occasionally and noticed no bad side effects. what i did notice however was that after LP, my lifts were decent but my arms are still fucking 13.5".
rippetoe has never said its ok to add accessories. the only "accessory" you add is chins. pic related. and your argument is stupid since rippetoe also claims that doing SS is the best way to start bodybuilding.
sure, op, if you want to become a strong t-rex, add nothing. but if you want to have some arms with just about 0 downsides, add dips and curls.
>>35694693 nice strawman. no one ever said ss is the best thing for BBing. just that if you want a somewhat balanced physique while prioritizing strength gains, you should add dips and curls cause they wont hurt a thing anyway.
>>35694692 in terms of strength, rip is to be listened to.
in terms of bodybuilding, he's not.
>>35694713 I only think that OP could be doing something better (IF he even wants to bodybuild, i dunno what the fuck he wants he's abandoned thread)
>>35694718 >what is natural bodybuilding do you believe that SS with a bunch of accessory lifts added is the best thing for aesthetics/mass? if you you probably haven't read much outside of /fit/ for info. pick up a book once in a while.
>>35694692 >rippetoe has never said its ok to add accessories oh look, someone else who hasn't read the book
seriously i swear /fit/ doesn't even know what SS is.. it is literally just the type of programming where you do full bod, 3 sets across of a handful of exercises. there are like 5+ different different versions of SS written out explicitly in SS and PP, all with varying accessories
>>35694948 well you talked about not fucking with the program and adding the accessories rip recommends. adding the exercises op mentions is not 'fucking with the program' by any sensible definition of the program (except perhaps for the calf raises, fuck calf raises). and there are 101 different ways of adding in accessories, not just 1
>>35694959 >oh look, someone else who hasn't read the book feel free show me where tells you to add accessories _to the novice program_. the book is about basic barbell training, not just the novice program.
and i dont understand how you can say stuff like that when my pic has a quote from SS saying chins are the only ancillary exercise in the novice program.
>>35695024 point is that there are 101 ways to add in accessories. some are better than others in different contexts etc. etc. but its not 'fucking with the program' to do one variation rather than another
>>35695040 this >>35695045 >well if you look in the book you can see, written down explicitly, novice programs that have ancillaries aside from chins half of those are just different phases of the SS program. "the following novice workout" is phase 2 of SS, the one below it is phase 3 and "a good example" is kind of phase 4. i think thats the onus wunsler version. the one below that is phase 5 or advanced novice. basically, those are all the SS program since it has different phases.
he's talking about the official "starting strength routine" in the context of my picture's quote. he is talking about general novice programming in the random quotes >>35694061. if you want to do SS, you do the workouts according to these phases http://www.fitocracy.com/knowledge/official-starting-strength-guide-for-fitocrats/
if you are a smart novice, you do that and possibly add dips and curls
>>35695188 >half of those are just different phases of the SS program i think you have just invented that. or rather, i think you have got it second or third hand from some website or other rather than going back to what is actually said in the book.
as Rip says in the book, SS is not a single workout or program but a methodology.
>>35695256 the author of that article is a fucking starting strength coach. and a famous one. there are like 50 SSCs in the world. that shit is very rippetoe approved. read the programming section in SS:BBT and you'll understand the phases. i dont remember seeing Rip saying anything about SS being a methodology, thats just made up by the author of that one pic.
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