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Meat Eaters B T F O again
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You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness

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What is your excuse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczRzcqxoIo
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>>35668841
>dietary cholesterol raises serum cholesterol
No.
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>>35668902
>being this much of a shill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s25RaOZsFM
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>>35668974
Would you like to suggest how the egg board has anything to do with those study results?

Here's the page with source, btw.
http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-report/pdfs/scientific-report-of-the-2015-dietary-guidelines-advisory-committee.pdf
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>>35668974
>nutritionfacts.org
>youtube """proofs"""
top tippity kek
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>>35668974
>shucking and jiving for zog
>trying to weaken the white race through vecucking
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>>35669032
>Video length : 229 secs
>your comment - mine = 211 secs
Yea I believe you skipped the video. Also you missed the point.

>>35669050
He is showing you the paper he is citing from right in front of your nose. If you don't believe him you can look up those citations.
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>>35668841
>Implying lipid deposition hypothesis is true
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>>35669084
Not only is the official stance of health.gov that dietary cholesterol has no "appreciable" effect with serum, it's that of the sticky.

If you're trying to counter that, maybe being a little more contributing than "guys, the studies are probably rigged" would be beneficial. Have I checked the study sources for measurement accuracy as of this post? No.

Dietary cholesterol is still potentially helpful for a role with cell membranes though. Even more, if it increases serum cholesterol, then it potentially increases testosterone with lifting.

Is this OP saying that eggs are meat and/or that they shouldn't be eaten? That's why I'm here. The meat industry can get dunked.
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>>35669259
Guys, clogged atteries don't matter when you get more test!

Pro tip: There ain't no test when you're dead mate.
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>youtube is a peer-reviewed scientific journal
kek

meatlets, when will they learn?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20194883
>CONCLUSIONS:Two-year weight loss diets can induce a significant regression of measurable carotid VWV. The effect is similar in low-fat, Mediterranean, or low-carbohydrate strategies and appears to be mediated mainly by the weight loss
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>>35668841
Enjoy your estrogen laced soy products
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>>35668841
>First source, anitschkow
experimented using rabbits. Experiment was not repeatable using rats, dogs, or chimpanzees.
Conclusion, the herbivore nature of rabbits makes them unsuitable for this comparison to humans.
>Second source, Keys
Keys is a fucking cheat at everything he did. #1 untrusted scientist.
>First Statement, most modern research supports this
Very little research supports the lipid hypothesis, and if the research did support it he should mention it, IE citation needed.

baby crying. will watch rest later
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>>35669368
>oy gevalt my fellow white!
>let the lesser species like the negroes eat meat and get strong, er, heart disease
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>>35669368
Nice troll. You left out

>...-induced decline in blood pressure

CIMT is confounded by blood pressure, even the authors of that paper agree

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19679833

There's a reason it's not recommended for use in clinical practice

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18261694/
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>>35669460
Hypertension increases IMT, it doesn't confound it, you retarded shit-for-brains cunt
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>>35669556
If you're using it to look at atherosclerotic plaque, it does, fuck face nigger.
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95% of everything that goes in my face is chicken, vegetables, rice, olive oil and spices.

I pretty much only drink green tea and water.

COME AT ME FAGGOTS
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>>35669032

>Would you like to suggest how the egg board has anything to do with those study results?

You're not referring to a study though. That's the DGAC's cholesterol guidelines, based on a summary by the American Heart Association and American College of Cardiology who compiled data published only after 1998, and called for more research. The DGAC misinterpreted this to say there's no evidence, despite prior evidence showing that there is a clear effect, but that the effect can look weaker than it really is depending on how you design the study

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/55/6/1060.full.pdf

The Institute of Medicine/Academy of Sciences continue to say that there's a definite, linear relationship between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol

https://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/DRI/DRI_Energy/energy_full_report.pdf
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jesus fucking christ, vegancucks are trying really hard today don't they
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>>35669302
But we can and do have completely healthy cholesterol levels while eating meat.
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>>35668841
Lol his faggot again
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>>35668841
That's it. I think i'll go add vegan related shit to my 4chan filter. Bait or not this shit's fucking cringeworthy.
Can post the filter here if anyone wants it
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Can we ban all vegans yet?
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>>35669768

How do you filter that exactly? Would appreciate it.
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>>35669800
upper right corner of catalog
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>>35669800
The catalog has a Filter button now (it's next to search)
Just put shit in there and it'll be gone for good.
>tfw never having to read manlet/lanklet and vegan threads ever again
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>>35669608
Learn what "confound" means in the context of statistical analysis before opening your cunt mouth, retard.

Also, the SVM rec. you linked to (but clearly didn't read) cautioned against using CIMT as a proxy without also measuring VWV. Which is exactly what the authors of my cite used, in point of fact VWV, not CIMT, was the reported outcome metric.
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>>35668841
fuck you /fit/ for making me waste 20 minutes on google scholar to disprove this.

One thing to remember in all this crap is that these studies are done on normal(fat and sedentary) populations. If you work out 3 times a week, you could probably snort coke and be healthier.
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>>35669876
>>35669880

fuarkkk! Was not aware.

Thanks a lot guys. A pic for your time.
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>>35669930

>that guy who lifts weights and thinks it counts as exercise
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>>35669880
>>35669876

Oh fug I can't see it. Maybe cos im using 4chan x?
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>>35669084
>>35669700
>Egg
>Meat
pick one
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>>35669700
>the AHA/ACC report finds no dietary cholesterol correlations as of yet
OK.

The other:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23676423
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>>35669961
you're up late, Australia
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>>35669032
Because cereal companies had nothing to do with the "eggs are bad" meme.
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I honestly don't understand why people still eat meat.

If you're smart you can find non-meat alternatives that taste exactly the same but with much more nutrition and less fat. Studies have shown that vegetarians/vegans on average live longer and are healthier. Considering the amount of shit the FDA are allowed to put into your meat, it's not surprising. You can get high protein from (soya) milk, eggs, nuts, fruit, pasta, peanut butter, etc. etc.

When you eat meat you are getting second hand protein from that animal. Why not cut the fat (literally) and get it yourself?

>"B-but le epic bacon! XDD "
>"Meat is murder; le tasty, tasty murder!"

Meat eating is literally Reddit: the diet.
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>>35670127
I agree, although I don't see much wrong with eating meat maybe once a week, but you're better off having fish instead.
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>>35670048

>>the AHA/ACC report finds no dietary cholesterol correlations as of yet

And I explained why.

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23676423

Lots of things to say about this. For one,

>Comparison of the highest category (≥1 egg/d) of egg consumption with the lowest (<1 egg/wk or never

1 egg a day was considered a high level of egg consumption and the study tries to see if consumption at this level could show measurable effects. This doesn't speak for people eating 2-3+ eggs a day. Next we see

>Of the studies conducted in diabetic patients, the pooled HR (95% CI) was 1.69 (1.09, 2.62) for overall CVD.

So for diabetic patients, CVD dramatically increased even at the level of 1 egg a day. Diabetes is one risk factor for heart disease, so egg consumption in people at a higher risk for developing CVD, which would make them easier to find associations for, found noticeably higher rates of CVD at the level of 1 egg a day.

Now we look at the studies involved in the meta-analysis and see some conflicting information. Some say eggs were associated with increased risk, some say they weren't. Let's look at one where they weren't

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FBJN%2FBJN96_05%2FS0007114506003138a.pdf&code=4022e6ad419bbed0d563057d88374391

> the findings of the present study may be explained by the assumption that subjects with high total cholesterol concentration reduced their egg intake more than the others, and therefore we observed an inverse relationship between egg consumption and the frequency of hypercholesterolaemia. This assumption is supported by the trend among categories of egg consumption in the frequencies of intention to avoid taking a cholesterol rich diet. Therefore, a cause–effect reversal might have occurred between egg consumption and total cholesterol concentration.
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>>35670159
>I don't see much wrong with eating meat maybe once a week

Sounds about right. If we're going by the blueprint of pre-historic man, we used to hunt, kill, and eat our meat about once a week anyway, so it's probably a good balance. People eating meat every day is just crazy though. Our bodies aren't built to process meat to such a degree. Pescetarian is also a very healthy diet if you can avoid mercury.
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>>35670004
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>>35669896
>Learn what "confound" means in the context of statistical analysis before opening your cunt mouth, retard.
This thread is about atherosclerosis. Why would you link to that paper otherwise?
>Also, the SVM rec. you linked to (but clearly didn't read) cautioned against using CIMT as a proxy without also measuring VWV
What the fuck are you talking about, dimwit?
"Imaging should not be performed in patients with established atherosclerotic vascular disease or if the results would not be expected to alter therapy. Serial studies of CIMT to address progression or regression are not recommended for use in clinical practice."
> Which is exactly what the authors of my cite used, in point of fact VWV, not CIMT, was the reported outcome metric.
Your authors say the 3D technique they used can't differentiate atherosclerotic lesions from blood pressure changes. They reported on CIMT too, but don't discuss it, so isn't that your whole point?
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>>35670048
>>35670206

The authors also reference another study (used in the meta-analysis) that found a positive association between eggs and CVD, and theorized what else they thought explained the difference, which had to do with awareness of cholesterol in Japan at the time of the study, and cholesterol-lowering drugs hitting the market. (pic)

The most recent meta-analysis found that even less than an egg a day (4 a week) is positively associated with CVD, as well as diabetes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643053
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>>35669428
>lipid hypothesis
So next thing you are going to tell is that the science on human made climate change is false too?
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>>35670127
>taste exactly the same
>much more nutrition

Lol. Meat alternatives taste like shit and have no nutrition. Fake food.
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>>35670127
Price/protein
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>>35670127
>you can get high protein from (soya) milk
along with man tits
>eggs, nuts, peanut butter
along with an assload of fat by comparison
>fruit, pasta
lol

The reason "high protein" diets are considered bad by scientific studies is because high protein means something totally different to the scientists than to /fit/. /fit/ means lean meat and fish. scientists mean a typical fast food american diet, which is higher in protein than your daily needs, as well as high in lots of other shit. You're not wrong that we do put a lot of shit in our meat and it needs to stop, but we do it with more than just meat, and it all needs to stop. And vegetarians do not live notably longer than meat eaters, whereas pescetarians outlive both by a pretty large margin.
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>>35670264
This post doesn't make sense, human are neither herbivores nor carnivores. Humans are omnivores.
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>>35670410
Price/protein tends to be lower if your protein comes from a mix of Veggies and Whole Foods.
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>>35670404
You've tasted shit products.

>>35670410
Meat-free products cost half their meat counterparts and they don't run out in two days. My University flatmates broke the bank trying to eat meat that wasn't disgusting shit quality.

>>35670424
Where did I suggest they weren't? I'm just saying that we shouldn't eat as much meat as we do.

>>35670421
>eggs, nuts, peanut butter
>assload of fat in comparison to red meat

lmao alright faam
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>>35670291
Everybody has read enough history to know how intelligent people who promote censorship are.
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>>35670127

To then say that a plant based diet or meat alternatives are unquestionably better or more efficient / healthy than a grass fed organic steak, or fresh salmon or mackerel plucked from the rivers and oceans is fucking retarded.

Mollusk, offal, fresh oily fish, and grass fed live stock boast some of the most readily available, nutritionally dense foods per portion. without having to resort to consuming over 800 calories of nuts or seeds or over a kilo of broccoli.

How are people still using these loosely documented "vegans live longer" studies as irrefutable fact? Break it.

It's not hard to understand that the majority of the meat eaters in the western world are consuming meat feast pizzas and mc burgers at levels beyond recommendation.

Comparatively, those that are choosing an alternative dietary route (vegetarians or vegans) will mostly be doing so out of health conscious decisions (regardless of how effective it might be). As such they are actively avoiding some of the worst, commonly consumed foods by the average populous. This is where the benefits come from. Skipping fast foods or syrup coffees etc, not forgoing a fresh fish or steak from a grass fed, EU (non hormone injected) animal.
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>>35670553
Vegetables are healthier than meat. Give it up you fat amerifuck
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>>35670574
Did the immigrants take your meat as well as your white women eurocuck?
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>>35670553
Yeah those studies are exaggerated, but you can't deny that there is an increased risk of colon cancer from red meat. Plus, how many people here are buying god quality meat really?

There are also even stronger ethical and environmental reasons not to eat meat, but this is a fitness board...
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>>35670597
Nah we have plenty of energy from our vegetables so we can actually make it to the polls and elect far right parties.
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>>35668841
id fuck that
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>>35670206
>And I explained why.
No, you didn't. And good luck explaining a negative.

Pretty sure there's something more substantial to post, but I CBA right now.
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>>35670553
This. You could be vegetarian and eat poptarts all day. It isn't inherently healthier, it's just that vegetarians/vegans eat more vegetables and avoid fast food, and are more likely to be health conscious in general.
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>>35670553
>As such they are actively avoiding some of the worst, commonly consumed foods by the average populous. This is where the benefits come from. Skipping fast foods or syrup coffees etc, not forgoing a fresh fish or steak from a grass fed, EU (non hormone injected) animal.
Nice claim, but sadly with no foundation.

We would need studies that correct for fast food consumption to verify this.
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>>35670543
>Everybody has read enough history
Read history?
>to know how intelligent people who promote censorship are.
First of all, they are indeed intelligent, unquestionably. Secondly, the only thing that would even remotely resemble censorship in the context would be rallying people to report vegancuck threads. Claiming that showing someone (who fucking asked about it) how to hide cuck threads is "censorship" shows everyone how fucking intelligent you are, you stupid fucking cuck. Soy made your balls shrink and activated almonds turned your brain into manure.
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>>35670741
>Read history?
>mfw he is american
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>>35670574

>EU

>>35670616

No, people rarely buy good, quality meat. This is the point i was trying to outline in my post. Most studies done are around cured, processed or meat products. Not fresh meat.

Also yes, there are serious environmental reasons why not eating meat is a respectable choice. To do so out of nutritional value only... is misguided.
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>>35668841
I eat plenty of nuts/legumes/veggies/fruits to counter the pathetic amount of cholesterol in a few 100 grams of chicken breast and/or lean ground beef.

Not to mention cardio, staying lean and keeping your BP down decrease the risk even further.

I'd say I've a pretty good chance of not having a heart attack until my 80s, I've no desire to live longer than that.
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>>35670834
Now I would give you all my respect, but I know you smoke weed.
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>>35668841
>be me, eat grass all day
>visceral cholesterol sky rocket high
>>
Eh.

The only animal products I consume are egg whites and honey. Can any vegans suggest why I ought not to for health-exclusive reasons?

I agree with everything VG came up with in that video for what it's worth. Just wondering if there's a good reason to avoid the aforementioned.
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>>35670849
I have in the past but it usually ends up with me being a paranoid sweaty mess or I eat everything in the fridge, I barely even drink anymore.
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>>35670950
egg whites are still high in sodium. As long as you consume enough eggs to keep that low you are good.
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>>35671063
Eating more sodium will keep sodium low? What?

Surely you mean consume enough water (which I do)? If so, yep.
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>>35669800
>>tfw no bf
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>>35670362
No. Science sjpports that.
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>>35669638
Seriously come at me veganiggers. Try to explain why my diet is killing me. I dare you.
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>>35670543
>chosing what to read and what not to
>censorship
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>>35670950
Fat, saturated fat and cholesterol do not cause atherosclerosis/heart disease in the first place. Obesity, body fat percentage and lack of physical activity cause atherosclerosis/heart disease.
Sure, consumption of cholesterol, fats and saturated fat is linked to obesity and heart disease, but those two things are actually both secondary outcomes of living in a society where there is an overabundance of calorie-dense foods.

The fact is, for the majority of individuals, as long as they stay at a healthy body fat percentage and are physically active, fats saturated fats and cholesterol not only do not raise triglycerides and bad cholesterol, but they oftentimes LOWER bad cholesterol and triglycerides, which is OPTIMAL for cardiovascular health.

>This study examines a group of male distance runners, one group is put on an extremely high fat diet with plenty of saturated fats, the other on a high carbohydrate diet.
>the high fat group experienced an increase in the ratio of HDL, good cholesterol, to LDL, bad cholesterol, as well as a decrease in triglycerides
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6436637

This is not merely anecdotal evidence. I could point to nearly any professional or amateur athlete who eats a balanced omnivorous diet. These people are lean and physically active by nature. Examples that come to mind are Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps.

People who are lean and physically active do not and cannot experience heart disease. Do you ever hear of a man at 10 or 15% body fat or a woman at 22% body fat receiving open heart surgery or dying of heart disease without outside drug or genetic influences? It doesn't happen.

Finally, I will cite my own blood work- I am a 20 year old male and eat a diet of around 30% fat, 15% protein and 55% carbohydrate. My saturated fat intake is near 45 grams daily.

I am lean, around 11 percent body fat, do light cardio on occasion, and lift weights several times weekly.
my blood work:
>http://imgur.com/B1wuTfg
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>>35673144
>>35668841
I must note that as an omnivore who consumes 500 mg of cholesterol, nearly 50g of saturated fat and several servings of animal food daily, my cholesterol levels are not only excellent, but they are far better than most raw vegans can every strive to achieve.

My triglycerides are around 30-40% lower than the average vegan, my HDL is 10-20% higher, and my LDL around 10-20% lower.

Additonally my testosterone levels are in the 90%+ percentile for a 20 year old man.

Both sides of my family have had histories of heart disease and stroke. My great grandfather died of stroke, my uncles are both overweight and on cholesterol-lowering medication.

However, my sister, my father, my mother and I have all stayed optimally lean and at a healthy weight, and none of us have ever had to go on statins or any other medication for heart disease.
In fact, my father's cholesterol had gotten bad enough that he almost needed to go on medication, but upon dropping 20 pounds of fat, his cholesterol returned to the ideal range.
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I eat almost nothing but animal product and minimal carbs and my bloodwork is absolutely Godlike and my physique looks better than this vegan faggot.
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>>35670716
And basically no studies correct for lifestyle. Because it's extremely difficult to design a study which attempts to eliminate such variables without being inherently or arbitrarily biased.

The reality is this: Monitor your own health. Make changes if your health stands to suffer.
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Saturated fat and cholesterol are essential for optimal test production. Low test causes heart disease. Therefore, saturated fat and cholesterol protect against heart disease. QED virgin gains
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>>35674235
VG got extremely butthurt at a comment I left on his video right after it got posted.
I wrote that my LDL cholesterol was 66 and my HDL 61, to which he responded,
>What is 66 you fucking idiot? 66 be anything, it means nothing. I could say I'm 66 tall

He said this despite using graphics in his video where the units for measuring cholesterol are nanograms per deciliter, which is a standard for measuring cholesterol concentration.

The numbers 61 and 66 are blatantly meant to be ng/dl based on the context and nature of the situation.

I also told VG that I have better blood lipid and testosterone levels than DurianRider, which is in fact true, by a long shot.

He didn't respond again after calling me an idiot.

I'm this guy of course
>>35673243
>>35673144
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>>35674535
Lel what a moron. The dude uses Google Scholar to highlight a few abstract sentences and assumes everyone else, like him, will take it as religious fact just because it's on pub med.

I'm a biochemist/molecular biologist with a focus in biophysics. I comment often on his videos in a scholarly manner (in layman's terms), and continually stress the point that you could find peer reviewed research proving just about anything. He deletes my comments almost every time, usually after replying once and looking like a complete dumbass. The guy is a retard.
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>>35674604
>>35674535
I don't know why you guys even entertain that madman. You realize he's probably clinically insane? A likely psychopath with horrible genetics and a pathetic body and mind. All these horrendous vegan/vegetarian threads are full of ignoramuses like him too if not him himself.
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>>35674735
You're right... it just pains me so much to read the comments and see stuff like "amazing! so much reliable info... A+ content... wow you really did ur research!... etc." that I waste precious hours of my life to try and reach at least SOMEONE with logic. Doesn't work, I suppose I'll stop. Although I do get some sort of sick pleasure out of picturing him fuming and replying to hundreds of comments while sitting at his desk and staring at action figures in his mom's house kek.
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>>35674735
Most vegans are defective human beings. They are so wrapped up in the moral/emotional aspect of eating meat that their confirmation bias completely blinds them to actual science and anecdotal evidence that refutes their opinions.
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>>35673144
>>35673243
>>35674535
the exception doesn't disprove the rule
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>>35674828
Maybe, but I issued a task to all- find me someone who is lean (I now define as <18% for a male and <25% for a female) and physically active who has developed heart disease or type 2 diabetes without the influence of drugs or some rare genetic enigma
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>>35674859
This is going to be difficult, because physical activity, independent of your diet, tends to make you healthier.
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>>35668841
Listening to a vegan talking about diet is like listening to a Jehova Withness about religion.
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Jeff jeff
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I only eat meat i hunt.
I went trolling yesterday and got 6 80cm+ Kingfish. Thats literally 3 months of gains alone, and on top of that, i kill the kangaroos that hang around my back fence and eat them as well. In the last week ive gotten like $2000 worth of meat for myself. Game you hunt yourself is also higher in gains.

Vegans and plebs that buy meat btfo
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good meat is literally the healthiest thing you can eat
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>>35674799

>confirmation bias

this. a billion times this. It is why vegans are fucking moronic when it comes to science. It's why you will never hear more than one side from VG, etc.
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BEEF
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>>35668841
You are retards, as long as you have a healthy active lifestyle cholesterol won't just add up in your system. Cholesterol is produced naturally in your body, if you eat cholesterol, your body produces less. Cholesterol is dangerous only if you are a couch potato. if you don't trust me, eat a lot of eggs and after a month have yourself checked. If results are bad, just change diet. Unless this board is filled with 45 year old men and women who never exercised in their life i think this is a safe experiment.
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>>35677374
sanity in this shitlord thread? GTFO NORMIE
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>>35676429
WHAT A RELIEF
>>
Guys it's just like smoking; no matter how much you tell them it's killing them, they keep doing it because they are heavily addicted.
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>>35677947
Essentially this. But its worth the 1 or 2 guys that do convince themselves to stop.
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