>>35634696 'Healthy' has a different definition in different contexts.
If your definition of 'healthy' amounts to 'not diseased', then it's a very broad definition, because that does not in any way imply 'stronger than average' or 'above average fitness' in any way.
If however your definition of 'healthy' is 'stronger than average', or 'legitimately an athlete in a competitive sport', then just getting by on a plant-based diet is generally not going to get you what you need or want.
Most people are average or below average fitness and overall strength, and DGAF, they're more focused on surviving as long as possible -- regardless of their overall Quality of Life, or their idea of Quality of Life is far below what an athletic or above-average fitness person calls Quality of Life.
Therefore if all you care about is hanging on as long as possible before dying, then go right ahead and eat whatever low-density foods you want, and move around as little as you can get away with, and take no risks whatsoever. Maybe you'll stay deluded enough to die without actually acknowledging your regrets for the things you never did or even considered doing.
Or you can live your life to the fullest, eat what gives your body the best fuel and building blocks it needs to be strong, fast, and truly fit and healthy, take risks, reap amazing rewards, and die knowing that you actually *lived* instead of just 'surviving'.
Humans have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years with no widespread negative health effects, in fact quite the opposite. Meanwhile even strict vegetarians become diseased, cancerous, and die before their time. There are many many more factors involved in longevity than just what you eat, and you can control only a small fraction of them. So you can worry your actual lifetime away about all of them and huddle in your house, afraid of your own shadow, or you can forget all the things you can't control and JUST LIVE.
>>35634696 It's literally just based on a false assumption and non-controlled association of meat eating and obesity related disease. Meat is available in places where there is an abundance of food. In places where there is an abundance of food, people are likely to overeat and develop obesity related diseases.
It's that simple, and every pro-plant based activist out there wants to ignore this fact. They just glaze over the hundreds of millions of exceptionally healthy people who consume animal products on a weekly (or higher) basis.
For those too lazy to read what these fags are talking about
>china study - outrageous claims made by cherry picking data and ignoring contradicting facts >refute - >implying >ignoring xyz >choosing stats to support your hypothesis instead of using facts to create proof >colins refute of refute - >fuck off tard >i bet you dont even science you pencil dick faggot
>>35635114 I don't recall ever seeing one addressed to Willett and Hu. The one he wrote Minger, i.e.
is mostly bitching about the correlations she made not not being controlled for confounding factors. But if you actually read her critique you would see she did in fact do this. The rest is just an ad hominem attack with no actual critique of arguments or methodology.
>>35635239 >is mostly bitching about the correlations she made not not being controlled for confounding factors.
Come on, you know this isn't true. Give his argument some credit at least.
>>35635197 The book contains more than 1000 citations of other studies. The main content of the book, is actually not what most of the book is about, it is only 1 out of 17 chapters in content. This is something you have neglected to account for.
>>35635388 Stu Phillips never has published any research in his life. Colin Cambell is one of the most prestigious figures in nutritional science. He has done research with MIT and Cornell and has released some of the most critical work in nutritional science.
>>35635658 >>35635641 Vegans are generally arguing for the life-extending benefits of plant based diets through analyzing broad swaths of populations. They are looking at average folks who don't exercise or pay attention to their nutrition.
When you have countries like UK, US and Australia, where vast amounts of calories and meat are available for a low price, the masses tend to overindulge, which leads to the health problems that are falsely attributed to meat and dairy consumption and should really be attributed to the ignorance and utter disregard of the masses.
>>35634805 Associating the consumption of certain foods with living, happiness, excitement etc is what fat cunts do. You can't assume that a vegetarian does not enjoy life any more than a 350lb hambeast can assume that a fit person must be miserable because they deny themselves cake occasionally.
>>over 1000 additional research articles to support its claims ...just like every other fad diet book. You realize there are millions of papers published on nutrition and biochemistry and a million more ways of cherry picking and interpreting the data?
>>35636033 >...just like every other fad diet book. You realize there are millions of papers published on nutrition and biochemistry and a million more ways of cherry picking and interpreting the data?
Dude who the fuck are you kidding? Are you really trying to argue that the average fad diet book contains this level of scientific background? You know that is not true. Everyone in this thread knows that is not true. Quit kidding yourself and accept that the term "cherry picking" doesn't apply here.
>>35636241 >I read that someone analyzed raw data and realized that it doesn't support thesis presented in this book
Why don't you fucking read the book yourself and come to your own conclusions? Because I guarantee you will not reach that conclusion. Anyone who actually has read the book knows it goes into way more detail than 99% of other nutrition books. Also, the person who famously debunked the book is an english major, doesn't know statistics and biology, let alone biological statistics. She interpenetrates everything in the book wrong, and makes the most juvenile of statistical errors in her rebuttal.
Do you really think Cornell University would just let some asshole take the most comprehensive study ever done and make a shitload of wild claims that have no merit and ruin their integrity? Read the fucking book yourself and come to your own conclusions stop listening to what other people tell you to think.
Wow dude, you really convinced me with those empty rhetorics. If you honestly think pop sci garbage for high schoolers = scientific background, your IQ must be very low and you should fuck off back to reddit.
>>35636342 >which were already hyper-simplified themselves
What the fuck are you even talking about? What are you even trying to imply? This literally has nothing to do with anything. You are just making up words to try to argue against something you don't have a clue about.
>and later retracted What are you even talking about? Cornell still boasts about the project, it is one of their great efforts in medicine. Stop making up random crap that you heard from someone.
>>35636332 the observational data was published and not the wild speculation by campbell (that he promotes as scientific fact in this book, other books, quirky alternative medicine websites, documentaries, and various internet blogs he runs) that an 8% protein low fat high carbohydrate vegan diet is the ultimate panacea free of adverse effects
this is contrary to mainstream scientific consensus on diet and no official medical organization in existence (and no pcrm and peta don't count) thinks an epidemiological study riddled with confounders and methodological limitations is strong evidence or sufficient to satisfy the hill criteria.
and before you appeal to his credentials let me remind you that there are people with even bigger ones who are aids denialists, anti-vax, homeopaths, etc
Because being a vegan is fucking boring and no long life living, annoying ass vegan who wants to spend their 'extra 20 years' on the Internet arguing will ever change that. In fact they will further prove my point.
No, he's right if you think about it. Assume that the total population is divided up into thirds-below average, average and above average strength-then 2 thirds of the population are of average or below strength.
>>35636535 There is so much wrong with this post that I refuse to address it. I'm going to bed. The fact that you want to come off as scientifically minded, yet would not hold your own diet to the same scientific rigor as the one you are criticizing, and at the same time committing a logical fallacy in your own very post, is outrageously ironic.
>>35636535 You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. For a scientific experiment, you would always like to reduce any factors you are not analyzing or cannot take into consideration. Focusing on a single country would be one way to do so. The outcome of the experiment is then however only under those conditions: in China this seems to be true and it does not need to be true for other countries. Assuming of course that the science itself is done correctly.
Evolution never selected for any trait appearing after the age of 20 or so because after you have produced offspring it does not care about you anymore. The diseases they address in their study only usually appear at higher ages. But you would like to make it far past 20, right?
there is a pretty easy read called The big fat surprise that explains, with a very biased perspective why the china study isnt great. you can read the book or listen to her and vinnie yap about it http://vinnietortorich.com/2016/01/nina-teicholz-big-fat-surprise/
You can also read gary taubes books, which are a more difficult read, but also have more data.
the bottom line is that nutritional anthropology has many confounding factors, and is not to be trusted beyond being interesting. There will never be a "great" study on what diet works best, because its too expensive and prohibitive to actually do good science on that topic.
for me (and my family), I have chosen a LCHF diet. I stay lean, my bloods are good, and i feel great. I do not stay in ketosis, but am in it 50-70% of the time. It does not hurt to consider it and see how you respond.
You know why Bulletproof (tm) coffee with the MCT oil is so fucking popular? its because when you have pure mct oil, it bypasses your normal metabolism and makes ketones that go right to your brain within 60 minutes. you literally feel it hit, and its great! i chose to live in that state 24x7 and ill let my body tell me if its not good.
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