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SS & SL
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You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness

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What are the pros/cons for doing SL or SS?
Most /fit/izens promote SS for beginners,others call it a troll
If you are a beginner,are you currently doing SS or SL or something completely different?
What were your reasons for choosing your routine and how is it going for you?
For advanced weightlifters,what did you start with,and if you could would you start with something different than what you did?
>>
>>35562581
Started with SS and ended up t-res af
I even bought the gay ass book
>>
>>35562581
Doesnt matter, pick ! and stick with it for a year
>>
>>35562581
>inb4 thats not Rip on the right
>>
>>35562581
>SS
>making it
b-but /fit/ is always right
>>
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>>35562581

Trappy and strongtoast have answered this multiple times

>>35535857
>>35535868
>>
>>35562633
were you fat to begin with? How tall are you? Needs more info on this.
>>
>>35562780

He's baiting, dude.
>>
>>35562780
He's fucking trolling.
>>
>>35562749
>Reg Park
>zero coaching experience
What the fuckkk
>>
>>35562581
I was doing SL but after a while 5x5 became too much so I change to 5x5 in a Reg Park scheme.

Never really try SS
>>
Let me guess, you want big arms and chest right? Do you think benching 6 times a month and overhead pressing 6 fucking times a month are going to do that for you?
>>
>>35562793
SL wasn't written by reg park. SL isn't even copied from reg park, no matter what mehdi tries to claim. it's much closer to SS than reg park's is.
>>
>>35562581
Do SS, it's better.

If you are really that concerned about being t-rex, do one of the SS + arms programs
>>
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>>35562785
>>35562790
>>
>>35562581
t-rex here

SL is SS with more volume, that's it

did SL for a year btw
>>
>>35562793
>Reg Park made SL
The guy's first name is Mehdi; he's a sandy, IIRC. Roy "Reg" Park is a White man.
If you're ripping on the 5x5 part, Reg actually advocates the first two sets to be warm ups, making the SetxRepetitions actually to be 3x5.
>>
>>35562581
it depends a lot of what you want.
If you want to get fit slow and steady do SL
if you want to become a trex freak with mutant legs do SS
>>
>>35562785
>>35562790
nice try Mark
>>
>>35562749
What I don't understand is, why Trappy is such an expert on things like that?

(S)he is training for ass, the pics posted there attest to that.

Just trying to understand this, not to shit on Trappy.
>>
>>35562581
>people bitch they get juicy legs on ss and sl
>forget that legs are harder to build than upper so
>if you have the lower body but not the upper body its easier to buikd the upper, no wait if you have the upper body and the lower body, wait no no, if you have the lower body but not rhe upper body
>>
>>35562949
Or how the fuck a little being like him/her is a strength coach or even interested about strength training, when (s)he doesn't even do that stuff.

Its much more likely that (s)he is a beginner/intermediate trainer who has obsessively read about that stuff on the internet and pretends to be something else. Its not that hard even to get a timestamp pick of a pretty ass
>>
SL sucked balls, was a total stallfest. Switched to SS after 4 months of SL, my lifts are rocketing up, the workouts are more fun and I have more time for accessories, so have a better balanced body.

SL is a massive fucking pile of shit and is just an objectively worse version of SS.
>>
>>35563030
>Thinks that difference of 2 sets and rows --> power cleans makes that much a difference

lel, changing the routine must have been the reason
>>
>>35563072

>160% extra volume makes no difference

wanna know how I know you dont lift?
>>
>>35563111
And where did you get that 160%

You clearly don't even know how the SL program works. You are supposed to change it to 3x5 when you begin to stall.

You also could even do 5x5 with 90% of your 5RM and keep deloading and getting back up, it would work as long as you eat and recover properly

Its a dyel mistake to think that a routine is more important than a program / nutrition
>>
>>35563177
Yeah, and Medhi also tells everyone to change everything to 3x3 and 1x3 when they can't progress linearly on 3x5, before switching to madcows. There's no reason to do 5x5 at all when you may as well just do 3x5 and not have to deload as many times.
>>
>>35563177

>hey guys my program is great
>as long as you effectively just switch to SS at a vaguely defined and poorly explained point

Fuck off Medivh, you cant lift shit and your program is garbage. Might as well just do SS from the start.
>>
>>35562793

SL has ZERO similarities to Reg Park's. Not even the 5x5 is the same.

>>35562949
>>35563024

She works as a coach. She was born a boy, so it's not weird that she has interests in things most women don't care about.

Besides, coaches are always either dyels or fat fucks. As Rip once said, "the worse athletes make the best coaches".

But it's normal for newfriends who haven't met trappy before she started tripping to suspect she's not who she says she is. She's too awesome to be real. But she is.
>>
>>35563274
>samefagging
He also doesn't expect a 30 y.o. male weighing 200lbs to reach a 3 plate squat on his program (2nd paragraph here http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/)
>>
>>35563274
You don't have to deload more times with 5x5, you just switch to 3x5 when you are beginning to fail your last set. Also, learning pendlay row is easier for beginners who don't even care about learning power clean. It is not essential for getting stronger and more muscular, only if you want to get into oly lifting, and then you should just do oly lifting, not SS.

SL also has all the information on its site, so you don't have to buy a book.

It doesn't matter which one you pick, but its a rookie mistake to think that SS is sooo much better and you just make a fool of yourself
>>
>>35563072

That's not the only difference between the SL and the SS program, though
The routine is similar but the PROGRAM is very different, and SL is objectively complete shit.
Just take a look at how the two programs deal with starting weights and how much weight to add on every workout and you will see they are utterly different.

See >>35535857
>>
It's no wonder people who do SL get stuck at below 50kg OHP, while people who do SS get to 60+ easily.

The SL program is just written by a retard with no experience. It tells you to add stupid amounts of weight, whether too much or too little, and it tells you to deload at the slightest sign of failing reps.

SS is superior in every single way.
>>
>>35563301
>Besides, coaches are always either dyels or fat fucks. As Rip once said, "the worse athletes make the best coaches".

Kill yourself. They maybe are, but it doesn't mean that they always were.
>>
>>35563342

No shit son. I was being hyperbolic just to be funny, it's obvious that I wasn't serious since I can't know every coach in the world.
>>
>>35563325
>SL is objectively complete shit.

Yeah right. If every beginner did even something close to it, we'd had so much more stronger and muscular people at the gym.

>Just take a look at how the two programs deal with starting weights and how much weight to add on every workout and you will see they are utterly different.

I actually like SL's idea to be the tortoise, slow and steady. There's no rush like rippletits wants to. You don't have to hit that 3pl8 squat in few months no matter what (or you're a pussy). You will hit it sooner or later, so safety first and take time to learn the form etc. If you lack the patience, then rush it.
>>
>>35562581
The problem here is that all of these "fitness gurus" who recommend SS or SL didn't actually do SS or SL themselves yet they are very keen to recommend it because 99% of them don't know what they're talking about but have seen other gurus recommend it so think they should do the same.
>>
Dinosaur training is superior
>>
>>35563371
better rippletits who wants you to chase 3pl8 squatz than medhi who doesn't think a 200lb male will get to them on stronglifts.
The routine is basically the same between both but the way SS handles starting weight, learning the exercises, and deload/resetting is way better. Also, SS includes chinups which are better than BB rows anyway.
>>
>>35562581
Did machine workout like a PT in my gym told me to do and never made much gains. Now I got myself a decent power rack and equipment at home and after a month of 5x5 SL I made more gains, than in a year with machines.
As for t-rex mode i guess you need to not only stick with the program, but incorporate some other lifts after the routine.
Basically I'm doing:

>A
>5x5 squats
>5x5 bench
>5x5 row
>3x10 dumbbell flyes
>push ups until I'm satisfied

>B
>5x5 squats
>5x5 ohp
>1x5 deadlift
>5x5 pull ups (going to get a weight belt for them soon)
>3x10 barbell curls (just for doing them in the power rack)

>when warming up and after finishing I'm also doing some abs and lower back work like this superman kind of stuff

Is there something I'm missing out?
I just have the barbell and the i do the flyes with the plates alone.
I really would like to add dips to A, but my power rack doesn't allow them, anybody got an idea?
>>
>>35563434
Dude, its time to stop. Do you even know how stupid it is to compare SS and SL to the point where you think that the other is great and other one is pure shit?

This is not fucking rocket science. For beginners, just hit compound lifts and eat. There are pple who get better results using something like PPL who just recover better and put more work into it. Some elite powerlifters would laugh at your face after saying something like that, because it affects so little.
>>
did SL for 5 mos learned fprm/technique. switched to coolcicadas PPL afterwards.

im glad i did it as a noob because it forces the basic compound movements on you and keeps your form honest. i might go back to it later on if my lifts stall for a cpl mos. i wont lie tho, im a much happier man squatting 1 day a week rather than 3 even tho i switched from a 3 day workout to a 4.
>>
>>35563475

Found the guy who did SL and doesn't know how SS works, but thinks they are similar.
>>
>>35563513
Im the guy who thinks you don't even have to know about SS / SL to get through beginner stage

Do you know how many succesful bodybuilderrs / oly lifters / powerlifters did SS?
>>
>>35563532

I know how many used roids, and with roids you don't need to worry about these details.
>>
>>35563532

Arnold and many other bodybuilders did Reg Park's, and SS is just a modern version of Park's.
>>
>>35563559
>beginner phase
>roids
+the fact that everyone who is succesful is on roids

Im dying
>>
>>35563572
Once again somebody thinks that it was routine, not dedication, hard work, genetics and nutrition (roids hehe)
>>
Power cleans are really hard to learn. I feel like a retard doing them, and doing them really light so I don't fuck up and drop iron plates on the floor.
>>
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>>35563623

What? Power Cleans are incredibly easy to learn. It took me one or two workouts to figure out most of it.

Now Cleans, on the other hand...
>>
>implying chinup isn't a retarded bodyweight exercise
>implying like all bodyweight exercises progression isn't insanely inconvenient
h-here let me awkwardly strap those weights around my waist
I guess I d-don't look that s-stupid
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>>35563716

Hold a DB between your tighs.
If you add 2kg per workout you will be doing +20kg chinups for 3x5 in no time, and if it starts getting hard just add 1kg instead.

Only people who should do rows instead of chinups are overweight trainees, to be honest. (and fot more advanced trainees who should do both, but it's not the case for someone who just started lifting)
>>
I'm having trouble maintaining +5lb/session... I've failed 105x5 (lbs) bench on two separate days. I'm also 10 pounds heavier right now than I was a month ago.
>>
>>35563908

Read this picture.
You are not supposed to be adding 5 pounds to your bench on every session at the point you are in.
>>
>>35563908

Also, eat more and sleep more. :P
>>
>>35563301
>sucking a tripfags cock

Gass urself
>>
>>35562581
I do SS but I added chin ups and I do front squat one day and back squat on the other. Dunno if this is good but I'm making gains.
>>
>>35564531

You're literally doing the actual program.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
And front squats are suggest as a substitution for one of the back squat workouts on the advanced novice routine.
>>
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>>35564033
Hey trappy, I got a quick question:

I'm doing SS with rows instead of cleans because I don't want to risk fucking up and looking like an idiot. Problem is, I hate rows. Can I replace those with weighted chins, or nah?
>>
>>35564549
Oh right, cool. I also do rows instead of power cleans.
>>
>>35562701
<le not rip meme
>>
>>35565028
<greentext
>>
@35565349
<le 4chan greentext
>>
>>35565371
fuck you dude
>>
>>35563024
>>35563024
>>35563024
This

Trappy doesn't know shit about the actual mechanics of lifting
Great advice for getting beginners started
Never ever go to him for form/technique advice
>>
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>>35563301
>she
> she
> she

you got me
>>
>>35562811
As opposed to doing it 8 times a month under PPL?
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>>35564016
Useful pic, but
>the deadlift should not be trained using sets across
I'm probably being incredibly stupid, can someone please explain this to me?
>>
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>>35565561
>Being a shitlord.
Gender and Sex are seperate. Most choose to align the two, but it is not necessary. It is not your business to decide who she is. If you must be a contrarian try to do it without referring to meme buzzwords such as 'mental illness'. Thank you.
>>
>>35562694
noone wants to hear that elliot hippie shit
>>
>>35564016
Fuck off delusionalchan you don't know dick about lifting and you obsessively samefag when ever people challenge you.

You're probably not even a fucking tranny, just some weird roleplaying teen.

You've never ever proven that you even lift.
>>
>>35566689
Wanna know how I know you're new here? Trappy's pics have been posted w/ timestamps.
>>
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>>35566561
didn't get me that time
>>
>>35566294
Why only one set of deadlifts?
>>
I've been doing SL, but want to start doing something more like SS.
Really like doing Pendlay Rows though, where should I put them if I keep them as an accessory?
Diddy-day or with the Cleans.
>>
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>>35564560

While it's hard to learn how to Clean, Power Cleans are very easy to learn. You basically deadlift the bar to a certain point, then explode upwards without using your arms and catch the bar on your shoulders. It's pretty easy and doesn't require much ability at all. Sure you probably won't get it 100% in the first workout, but a couple of days practising you'll see it's pretty easy and very fun.

Anyways, the thing is, power cleans are a floor pull, like the deadlift. Floor pulls train your legs, posterior chain, forearms (grip strength) and traps (the deadlift is so heavy that it also trains the entire back, but it's not the point here). It's pretty much a leg exercise, just like the squat.

The barbell row, on the other hand, is an horizontal pull. The horizontal pull is a complete different kind of exercise. Instead of working the legs, it works the lats, the back, and the arms.

So switching the power cleans for the barbell row doesn't make sense at all. The point of the power cleans is to strengthen your deadlift while not doing heavy deadlifts every day (since heavy deadlifts are pretty hard to recover and to progress if you do it 3 times per week), besides the benefits of increasing your power generation of course.
A proper substitution to the power clean would be doing Deadlifts at higher volume but way lighter weights. So I suggest you do 3x5 at 80% instead of doing barbell rows.

Here's how your SS routine should look like:

A
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
(many people add dips to this day. it's not official, but it's a fine addition)

B
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Power Clean 3-5/3 or Deadlift 3x5 at 80%
Chinups 3xF or Weighted Chinups 3x5

The chinup, by the way, is a vertical pull. It's very similar to the barbell row (they work the same muscles), but superior in many ways. It works the arms and the lats a lot more than a row because of the longer range of motion.

>>35570534

See the post above. You can substitute the chinups on day B for rows.
>>
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>>35564560
>>35570534

This pic might help with the power cleans. >>35563680
>>
>>35570680
Thanks for the reply.

I'm struggling really hard not to go too hard on assistance exercises. Added Dips and Chins to my SL routine pretty quickly, then Skullcrushers and Cable Crossovers, then Facepulls and Lateral Raises.

All of this on top of 5x5 heavy compounds with long rests takes so long that I have neglected cardio.

Am I hurting my gains with too much extra shit? Definitely worry that my push is weak compared to my pull (95lbs OHP, 150lbs Bench, 315lbs DL; a little over 2 months). Changing to SS what should I keep, what should go, and what to add?
>>
>>35562749
>taking advise from some transgender delusional faggot
haha you are kidding, right?
>>
I started SL like a month ago. I'm just happy to be working out and it's a simple program and the app is nice.
>>
>>35564560
> can I replace a horizontal pull with a vertical pull

I'd say no but I DEL so ask someone else
>>
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>>35571345

I'm not a fan of exrx since it's not 100% accurate, but here
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/WtUnderhandChinup.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html

As I said, it's not 100% accurate, but it gives a good idea.
>>
I've never seen anyone do a power clean at my gym. It probably has to do with many people seeming to drop the bar at the end of the movement and my gym not allowing weights to be dropped on the floor.
>>
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>>35570680
>>35570724
God damn Trappy you are so fucking helpful. I think I'll just do power cleans instead.

I love you
>>
>>35571520

You don't need to drop the bar though, just like you don't need to drop the bar after a back squat (and oly lifters do that all the time as well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drttm5r66A

>>35571540

Try it! They are really fun.

Here are a few cues that might help:

- Keep the elbows straight the entire pull, the only unlock when you're racking the bar, at the end of the movement

- Do not pull with your arms and do not throw the bar forwards. Your arms are just attachments that hold the bar, and the bar goes up. You use a "jump" to propel the bar upwards.

- Learn the rack position before starting to learn the clean. You need to make sure you know where the bar is supposed to be on your shoulders (on top of your front delts, google olympic weightlifters images so you get an idea)

- You want to break contact with the floor with both feet, not with just one (thinking about jumping helps having a mental cue of this)

- The bar must be in contact with your thighs for the jumping position (it will naturally occur if you start at the right position and thinking about jumping)

There is a video on how to powerclean with Alan Thrall and another one with Rip himself, they are great for you to visualise and learn how to do it.

It's not difficult, you will get it after one or two workouts.
>>
What about ICF vs SL/SS?
>>
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>>35571749

ICF is shit. It's written by autism Blaha...
>>
SS/SL are both perfectly fine beginner programs. I did SL for about 10 months. I never squatted or deadlifted before, just kind of messed around in the gym with no direction. I finished at 3x5 390 Squat, 3x5 255 Bench, 1x5 395 Deadlift. For the purposes of getting stronger and becoming a lifter, you will achieve both. After you have a strength base you can do whatever you want, including deciding your ultimate fitness goal is taking pictures of yourself in your underwear to post on 4chan
>>
>>35569564
Deadlifts are hard to do and recover from. You only need one set. A lot of volume and you risk not being able to recover by the next workout.
>>
>>35563341
>slightest sign
>Fail 3 times
K
>>
>>35563495
You're supposed to work 6 days in coolcicadas ppl
It's supposed to be either pplxppl or pplpplx
>>
>>35571749
>taking anything blahahahaha says seriously
COME ON!
>>
Do any barbell routine that has you pulling off the floor, squatting, and doing upper body presses and pulls two to three times a week and add weight regularly.

It's hard to fuck up as far as routine writing goes.

Here is what I'm doing to get my strength back after being an almost-junkie shit stain and losing all muh gains


A: Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 GHR 2x10-15
Pull Up 3x5-8


B: Front Squat 3x5
Push Press 5x3
Hang Clean 5x3
Chin Up 3xF

C: Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
Pendlay Row 5x3
>>
>>35571664
trappy do you swallow or spit?
>>
>>35571966
Reminder to Trappy that spitters are quitters
>>
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>>35571966

Swallow, I like the taste. Used to swallow my own when I was younger (I was able to cum before reaching orgasm), but since HRT I cum less and it's just transparent and mostly tasteless, so it got boring.
>>
>>35571842
Those two schedules are the same, you tuberous root.
>>
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>>35572029
Helpful yes. Oddly Disturbing. Also yes.
>>
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>>35572044
Don't forget erection inducing http://imgur.com/a/SKR7F
>>
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>>35572029
>>35572069

>trappy will never slurp on your dick with your cum in her mouth

What is even the point in lifting brehs?
>>
>>35572069
You know it really sucks. trapy is probably a good person who just wants to help. I just don't get turned on by penis and believe me ive tried.
>>
>>35572069
pls stop posting those
maybe trappy will notice me defending her!
>>
>>35572160
>>35572181

She likes being sexually playful too, don't worry about it.
She helps everyone a fuckton, and that's way more than anyone else in this dyel board does. Plus she's hot, and /fit/ loves dicks. So people are horny and friendly towards her, so 2+2=noice

She does get bullied sometimes by a few newfriends, but I don't think she cares since she never replies or takes baits.
>>
>>35572241
>She likes being sexually playful too
Doesn't mean you have to keep reposting her pics...
>>
>>35572262
>implying she doesn't like the attention
>implying I wouldn't waifu her ass regardless
>>
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>>35572033
>>
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>>35572241

>tfw people talk about you in front of you as if you're not in the room

>>35572262

It's okay bby, I think I'm mostly over it at this point. People were always reposting them anyways.
It does feels awkward when people keep posting them in crowded threads, but this one barely has anyone here anyways.

Let's all hug and cuddle and snuggle and then bukkake.~

>>35572316

PPLxPPLPPLxPPLPPLxPPL
It's the same routine regardless when you add in the following weeks.
>>
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>>35572331
Little too hug-boxy for me. familia
>>
>>35572331
p-p pls response ;_;
>>
>>35572331
The way I understood it is pplxpplxpplx vs pplpplxpplpplx
>>
>>35572390
Well that's clearly wrong.
>>
>>35570680
A bunch of anons say Pendlay Row is a decent substitute for Power Clean since its an "explosive" lift like it, what are your thoughts on that?
>>
>>35570680
Then why not sub power cleans with rack pulls?
>>
>>35566728
Trappy's pics were in no way impressive enough to suggest it'd know shit about lifting.

It's lack of knowledge is also demonstrated by how it constantly goes off over how shit SL compared to SS, when they're essentially the same damn program, and there's been documented proof showing the results you get from both are incredibly similar.
>>
>>35562581

The main con of SS for me was that eventually the intensity to gains ratio gets too high, but at the same time the volume in the routine is too low. Doing 3x5 and struggling reps never felt like enough for me especially since I want to grow. I need more sets, more reps, more volume but it's hard fitting it in a program that has you squat 3 times a week and burn time on shit like cleans.
>>
>>35562811
>bench
>ohp

Where do biceps come in?

in b4 "chinups", fuck you fag, chins aren't as effective as curls and there's no reason not to curl
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>>35573115
>chins aren't as effective as curls
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>>35573140

Even Rippetoe admitted this at least when it comes to training biceps.

http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/16740-chin-ups-curls.html#post127211
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>>35573153
Rip is a dumb curlfag what else is new
>>
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I did SS then Bill Stars Intermediate.

Probably already been said, but the problem with people starting out look at the SS progress pics and think that their upper halves look shit.

No matter what routine you do, unless you are on a course of steroids your upper half is not going to look great until a few years in.

What SS does is hit every muscle group, heavy and often. You will grow so much quicker and more effectively than doing a bro split.
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>>35573169

Impressive progress, you look pretty big while still looking natty.

>>35573153

Rip is a curlbro in denial.

But to be real now, I do think Rip needs to update the SS book with information about how to program accessories. He does write a LOT about them (and about the curls he pretty much says "I know you're gonna do them anyways, so here's how"), but he doesn't explain how to add them to your routine.

I know this is because he was mad as fuark at how novices keep adding random stuff to the program that will tamper their progress, and he's blunt af when talking about shit (probably a result of all the time he spends on the internet dealing with retards kek) - but he needs to catch up and address the criticism to his program properly. If he teaches people how to add one or two accessories to the program in order to increase volume after the first few couples of months, its popularity will skyrocket while still not affecting the main culprit of it.

>>35573023

SL and SS are completely different programs. The ROUTINE is similar, but the PROGRAM is completely different.
It's not just me, strongtoast has been doing the same thing for years before I even started posting here for reals.

But you shouldn't listen to what we say because of who we are, you should read the why's and take your own conclusions from it.

>>35572498

The main thing with the Power Clean is that it's an ancillary lift to train the deadlift without affecting the recovery. The Barbell Row is a different type of exercise that trains different muscle groups. A substitution of the power clean would be a lighter deadlift variation, the barbell row does not fit this role.

The thing with the barbell row is that while it is supposed explosive, it can be completed slowly, so it ends up not being as good of a "power" exercise.

Barbell Rows are good to substitute the chinups for trainees who can't do bodyweight chinups (or trainees who just like barbell rows a lot more)
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>>35572498

But it's funny that you mention how the barbell row is also an explosive lift.

The main criticism of people who don't wanna do power cleans is that it's explosive, and thus "doesn't make you stronger and doesn't build you muscle".

But those same people do Barbell Rows instead, which is also explosive.

Go figure kek
I guess people are just really scared of learning to power clean because they think it's hard or something.

>>35572616

You can. The thing is, rack pulls are supposed to be heavier than the deadlift itself - and the point of doing the power clean is that it's lighter and allows for recovery while still training the muscles in the same movement.
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>>35571906

Your routine looks great, really.
>>
>>35573580
Dear trappy,

I'm being obsessive.

Love,

Hime
Thread replies: 125
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