The hodge twins are going to be next. Those faggots spitting their shit about how much better they feel after a month of not eating meat when they are old as fuck and have eaten meat every day for the last 45 years.
>>35548199 >video in comments >Talking about difference in digestive system >animals that hunt eat in large amounts because they are built to eat intermittently >mfw all the health benefits humans get from intermittent fasting.
I may not be able to eat a 45lb meal in one sitting like carnivore, but I know people who spend all day "grazing" on carbs, and they are fat.
>>35549557 You also need glucose for a number of things. Like healthy hair growth. https://youtu.be/zbdbLx-NHAU?t=9m6s
Our brains evolved better thanks to glucose. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3189454/The-secret-man-s-intelligence-POTATOES-Humans-evolved-large-brains-ancestors-ate-starchy-carbohydrates.html
I prefer higher carbs(400-600g) and fats moderately low. Like 35-60g. Carbs mainly from sweet potatoes, beans, and other veggies. Fats from seeds, tempeh, and coconut oil mainly. My glycogen stores are almost always full and I feel best mentally.
Keto is just fine and healthy. Just not year round. I think it's best saved for short term dieting. When you need that appetite suppression. And you also get some water loss. But flatness, too.
Here's what my endo/bodybuilder friend says about HCLF vs. LCHF.
>Keeping inflammation markers in the low to medium ranges is what all of us need to do . You dont want to have high ranges of LDL, VLDL and Total Cholesterol along with High Insulin , High Glucose and High Triglycerides . If this occurs you will trigger your C-Reactive Protein to set off bells and whistles triggering tons of toxins that spread out from your gut and systemically roam everywhere in your circulating blood causing destruction . Either eat higher carb lower fat or higher fat lower carb , then periodically switch it up
By the way, OP. Vegan whole food diets the best for low inflammation. I don't need to post studies, just googly goo it.
>>35549812 you sound like most veggies who don't know what they are doing. A vegan who knows his stuff and can properly track his diet, like I do on cronometer, can get everything they need and then some whilst avoiding a lot of the shit in animal based diets.
I enjoy the widespread veganism tbqh familia Veganism means less guys are going to make it, which means less competition for me. I look like a Greek God among vegans, and I only started lifting 2 years ago. It's like skinny hipsters all over again.
>>35549825 or one of the many other deficiencies. >you did something wrong. like trying to suddenly replace a hundreds of thousands year-long evolutionary behaviour using provisional nutritional "science"?
>>35550022 Our brains did not evolve thanks to meat. And our digestive system is not designed for it either. If you look at our teeth we are frugivores. And the article I posted explains that our brains evolved thanks to glucose intake.
>>35550049 No, modern attention spans are just shit lol. And I'm guilty, too. It's a better use of time to get a deeper perspective on something as relevant as veganism seems to be becoming, rather than dicking around on /fit/.
>>35550069 I was thinking the same thing. What if vegans made their children eat this way? Imagine how unhealthy and malnourished your son/daughter could be eating nothing but carrots/lettuce each day. Pisses me off just thinking about it.
>>35550057 chimpanzees ambush howler monkeys, tearing them limb from limb and eating them raw - "frugivore" means mostly fruit, not entirely.
>Our brains did not evolve thanks to meat so you think having access to the most nutritionally rich food in abundance isn't related to the increase in size and activity of one of our most complex organs? If you have any evidence then share it by all means.
>>35550112 Yes it does. Look at the other facts(fact check it if you want) other than teeth. Digestive system, requiring more fiber, lower HCl.
>>35550092 There are books on doing it optimally. Vegans obviously eat more than carrots and lettuce. You getting pissed off at it is just a primal instinct. Because you're envisioning an all carrots and lettuce diet, which is retarded.
>>35550207 why don't you share your evidence for the assertion that meat is the reason we have big brains. As I understand it it was the act of learning to hunt and communicate with one another during the hunt that caused to development of a more sophisticated brain, not the nutrition gained from that hunting. I don't have a source for this, I remember reading it a long time ago. Then again I am not the one making claims here.
>>35550057 the article you posted says the main theory is that meat is responsible, and starchy foods is a new viewpoint among a handful of researchers who aren't even saying it was "instead" they're saying "as well as". >up until now everyone thinks it's meat >now they think starchy foods are vital, too vital, too - as in meat is vital.
>>35550078 >attention spans it's not a lack of attention-span but I don't believe there's enough on that video to warrant me spending an hour on it. >something as relevant as veganism I only see it as a trap for the uneducated so I spend a little time warning people off and trying to explain why it looks like such a risky undertaking. I don't think it's the next "movement of humanity" or anything.
>>35550292 breakfast >oats >peanut butter >blueberries lunch was a shake >myprotein chocolate soy isolate >fortified coconut milk >flaxseed >spinach (can't taste it, shakes are a great way to get a lot of raw spinach) dinner >bowl of rice, beans and chickpeas >bowl of stir fried veggies snack >small bowl of peanuts
>>35550340 it's in the coconut milk, I mentioned that the coconut milk is fortified. Only thing that would be considered a supplement other than my protein shake. I could just as easily have a meal with tofu, seitan, tempeh etc but I like the shake for conveniences sake. Make it in 2 mins in the morning then have a couple shakers worth in my bag.
>>35550234 That's how having a larger brain helped us, but I mean needing the nutrients to run the brain. If you lack oily fish you're at higher risk of dementia. Also if I remember rightly, supplementing creatine supposedly helps brain function - creatine being found in large quantities in meat.
>>35550251 >brains run better on glucose sure, as an energy source. Much more happens in the brain than simple bulk energy usage - we need to make new neuronal connections, as well as I'm sure a multitude of other things.
>>35550404 our body produces creatine and our body can convert EPA which is available in nuts and seeds into DHA. Conversion isn't great and it is true that vegans can be deficient in DHA. If that is a concern then there are algae supplements that contain high levels of DHA. A lot of people don't eat oily fish regularly and supplement with fish oil tablets for this reason, this is no different to a vegan supplementing with algae tablets.
>>35550387 >Although it is clear that vegetarians have lower iron stores, adverse health effects from lower iron and zinc absorption have not been demonstrated with varied vegetarian diets in developed countries, and moderately lower iron stores have even been hypothesized to reduce the risk of chronic diseases.
>The iron and zinc from vegetarian diets are generally less bioavailable than from nonvegetarian diets because of reduced meat intake as well as the tendency to consume more phytic acid and other plant-based inhibitors of iron and zinc absorption. However, in Western countries with varied and abundant food supplies, it is not clear that this reduced bioavailability has any functional consequences. Although vegetarians tend to have lower iron stores than omnivores, they appear to have no greater incidence of iron deficiency anemia. With current methods, it is not possible to effectively evaluate the influence of vegetarian diets on zinc nutrition because there are no reliable and sensitive criteria to identify marginal zinc nutriture in humans. The effectiveness of trace element supplementation of vegetarian diets has not been demonstrated, and any recommendations for supplementation should consider potential adverse effects, including possible competitive interactions between minerals. Research to further define the functional consequences of low iron stores without anemia and to sensitively detect marginal zinc status is needed to detect and prevent any possible problems associated with lower iron and zinc absorption from vegetarian diets.
>>35550392 >some meat-eaters are less healthy than me I'm not saying you should eat like a typical meat-eater, I'm saying your diet is most likely incomplete through a lack of meat. I think healthiest would be 90% plant foods and meat one or two days, seafood more often.
It's undoubtedly true that a lot of meat-eaters are unhealthy, but I haven't seen them trying to hold up their unhealthy habits as ideal.
it seems like you're trying to reassure me your diet is complete and has "everything", but that list isn't everything so for me it may as well be no evidence. I'm sure that 90%+ of nutrition is available in plant for - it's the odd little non-essential nutrients which I think we need meat and seafood for.
When you eat meat, you take a part of that animal into yourself, transferring their energy into your own. Essentially, you're taking a bit of their soul and using it to strengthen your own. However, the animal itself is made up of the energy it got from eating plants or other animals, essentially creating a domino effect of energy.
It's why cannibals usually turn into wendigos. They can't handle all the energy and taking in the soul of a sentient creature.
>>35550459 I do soak them. I like the protein powder for convenience but I don't have it every day. My diet is very varied.
Why are you replying to me as if I said I was tired or something? I have never felt better since going vegan 6 months ago and my diet is fine. I am starting a degree in Dietetics next year at a top UK university, I know what I am doing when it comes to nutrition. Studying it is my hobby. Unfortunately I am very busy these days so I am not able to eat perfectly every day but generally speaking my diet is on point. My sodium is a little high but that is because I input that I ate canned beans and chickpeas out of convenience but I in fact ate a canned amount (240 grams) from dried legumes I soaked myself. My sodium wasn't actually that high. I find I perform better with higher fat also, for me I feel tired and weak if I drop fats below 65 grams. This was a higher day than usual as I snacked on some peanuts.
>>35550443 I don't recommend supplementing at all. There are multiple supplements I take already, some of which like enzymes I would recommend to anyone.
Supplementing should be an absolute last resort and a lot of it should be the admission of failure of a diet as "ideal".
>our body produces creatine and can convert DHEA That it -can- do that isn't the same as saying it 100% -will-. If the system of self-production evolved supplementing meat and seafood intake, for example when availability was low in winter etc. then it won't necessarily be up to the task of taking over entirely. Without evidence that is entirely wish-fulifilment. There isn't even a way of assessing whether internal production makes enough until we know how much someone needs, and working out where optimal human functioning is seems like a potentially contentious issue.
>algae sure, the fish are only a mechanism to bring the algae to us - but we've been using that mechanism for a while and suddenly by-passing it isn't necessarily going to produce the same result.
>>35549802 >I am taller, fitter and healthier than both of them.
meaning what? Too many variables.
Show me a 40 year old guy with normal BMI and blood pressure and this automatically puts him in 95% threshold where I live.
Behind every lazy fat ass around here is inactivity, poor diet high in animal protein fat salt etc., nogains, never exercise, never cardio, multiple prescription drugs and etc.
The worst though is when it comes time to chow down, any normal lunchtime / dinnertime, let alone holiday feast, these hamplanets are guilt-stricken, nofun, picky, can'tchow, morons so conflicted they can't indulge any pleasure.
For a release they stuff themselves at every opportunity. No one desires them sexually and they have no other avenue for pleasure but to eat.
As for most meat eaters, the practice of constant meat eating means the meat isn't valued, isn't appreciated, isn't really felt. Its just inhaled and shat out, with most of the protein wasted.
Its lifting and exercise, muscle cells which stimuate GH which stimulate IGF-1. We only need 0.9-1.6g/kg bodywieght in protein and you will get it from the scientifically validated diet of diverse colorful vegetables.
>>35550546 I don't supplement either and my bloods always come back fine, I was just showing that there is an option to get DHA IF you are deficient and want to supplement whilst still doing so as a vegan.
>>35550477 my point is not, that low iron levels have negative effects, but that the portrayed data in the graphic is misleading. the amounts of nutrients shown there are only the ones contained in the food, not the ones that are bioavailable.
that's even moreso relevant for people who are genetically prone to have low plasma levels of a certain nutrient, as i've stated.
>>35550573 it's possible to supplement everything there is in meat and seafood, I don't think that's a sensible course of action, though. As for blood-work, I doubt they're testing for all your non-essential nutrient levels.
There's also a broader question of whether you are "healthy enough" to make it through the medical system without them wanting to invest resources in you, and on the other hand functioning at an optimal level. The former is defined by what it takes to live a normal life, make it to the cubicle on time every day not too depressed able to make calculations etc. - it's determined by economic pressures, not the demands of the human body let alone ideal and optimal functioning.
In short I think the standards of health and vitality we expect of each other are too low.
I love how in these threads vegan diets get picked apart piece by piece, looking at the bio-availability of specific nutrients when even the American Dietetic Association has come out saying that a properly planned vegan diet can be healthy.
Why are you not looking so in depth into your own diets? Why do I not see threads talking about the bio-availability of iron and zinc in a standard omnivorous diet? I put it to you that it can be easily proven that the animal agriculture business is disgusting and vile, that the environmental impact and the untold suffering it causes to billions of animals is reprehensible. The health implications of an animal based diet are well documented and the evidence is out there for all to see but instead of facing reality and making some changes, you simply don't want to because "muh bacon tastes good" you spend your time and energy picking at every minuscule detail of the vegan diet, an undertaking you would never do with your own diet. It's amusing and sad at the same time.
You are desperately looking for any tiny little reason why a vegan diet is lacking in some way, and it isn't. It is exhausting having the same argument again and again about B12, iron, zinc etc. These arguments are trivial as all of these things are easy to get without animal products.
>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
I would like some of you meat eaters to plug any typical day into cronometer and show me that your diet is better than mine in terms of the full range of vitamins and minerals you are getting. >>35550145
>>35550656 this idea of healthy enough does not apply. I live in the UK but do not use the NHS. I am fortunate enough to have a very wealthy father so any health care and medical work I get is privately done and much more extensive than the "get em in get em out" style you would see in most hospitals.
>>35550843 you only need 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight at a maximum. I weigh 165 pounds at the moment so 165 x 0.8 = 132 which I clearly surpass.
Legumes and all my other protein sources are complete, look at my amino acid break down retard. Fats and carbs are great for you, given that your only focus was on my protein intake I can only assume you know very little about nutrition other than what you read in the sticky and what you have read other retards spouting on /fit/
>>35550057 Nigger are you fucking retarded >omnivore teeth structure >omnivore teeth positioning >omnivore teeth development >jaws comparable to other omnivores; share some features with carnivores, very few with herbivores such as cows, sheep, horses, rhinos or elephants
Even considering only that is enough to discard the rest of the bullshit there. The guy who made it is completely retarded since he considers humans are perfectly adapted to consume an omnivorous diet, which is not true, which is also the reason why you get a mish-mash of both herbivore and carnivore features, just like every other fucking omnivore, such as pigs, bears and hippos.
Have fun waving your cult around famiglia and keep eating however you want, nobody will stop you, but don't attempt to promote it as a science when you're fucking incapable of doing so and the very nature of our bodies contradicts you.
>>35550874 holy shit you're stupid. ALL proteins are broken down into amino acids by the stomach and in the small intestine where they are absorbed and enter the blood stream. Our body then produces proteins in the cells where they are needed. Eating collagen has nothing to do with how much collagen a person has. Take a high school level biology class dumbass.
>>35550843 You're taking in way too much protein. 1g/lb is the most anyone who isn't on steroids will need, even a growing teenage boy who lifts weights doesn't need more than a gram per pound. And you apply the gram/lb or 2.2g/kg to your LEAN body mass, which ends up resulting in something like 0.8 grams per pound for most people. Inactive or maintaining people need even less protein, something like 0.5-1 gram per kg or 0.3 grams per pound.
>>35550754 >the American Dietetic Association has come out saying then they're wrong. The standards of human health aren't about whether you're functioning at the top of your range of abilities, as long as you're not significantly less healthy than the average you are "healthy" but it isn't much to aspire to. >Why are you not looking so in depth into your own diets? implying we don't. >business is vile this is not specific to meat-eating >environmental impact every time you do something it has an environmental impact, if you wanted to reduce it 100% then you would suicide. I think we will solve our issues more effectively with a well-fed and highly-functioning society than we will with a herd/horde of malnourished and confused early-dementia risks. >health implications that's about eating more plant foods which everyone should, not about making an arbitrary dichotomy of -either- plant -or- meat. The ideal healthy diet is still most likely 90%+ plant foods (with a lot of variety) AND some meat (red especially) and seafood.
I understand the miniscule failings of the vegan diet because I'm concerned about my own diet. I don't do it out of blind hatred. I understand -wanting- to be vegan, but I don't believe it's safe. >any tiny little reason little tiny "micro"-nutrients are important, and it IS lacking in micro-nutrient density. >B12, iron, zinc I hope you don't think this is all that is missing from the vegan diet. You need to look at non-essential nutrients as well. >easy to get without animal products but it isn't AS easy to get them, and if the RDA is too low (which I think is likely) then you might need some help in reaching the amounts. >American Dietetic Association I think they're wrong, I don't see why they're saying diets deficient in micro-nutrients are "nutritionally adequate" unless as I say the standards are too low. >cronometer it doesn't have all the micro-nutrients.
>>35551952 anti psychotics are horrific for weight gain. I had to be on them for about 4 months in 2011 and in that time I gained 25 pounds. I was eating almost exactly as I was before, moving less sure but not 5 plus pounds a month worth.
>>35547377 because 99% of them are either hippies or just plain autistic and they don't take care of themselves which means: >no skin care whatsover (sometimes not even sunscreen which wouldn't be that bad if they didn't love the outdoors) >dress like shit >pay less than a buck for their haircuts >not showering etc. etc.
Almost all of them look like nutrient deficient retards. I grew up in USSR, they literally remind me of pictures of Gulag prisoners. There's something about their lips and eye sockets that's very similar.
And those that don't probably lie about being kool trendy vegans and secretly eat animal food.
>Dietary advanced glycation end products (dAGEs) are known to contribute to increased oxidant stress and inflammation, which are linked to the recent epidemics of diabetes and cardiovascular disease. >Animal-derived foods that are high in fat and protein are generally AGE-rich and prone to new AGE formation during cooking. In contrast, carbohydrate-rich foods such as vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and milk contain relatively few AGEs, even after cooking.
the most illuminating studies in terms of fiber/saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat/saturated fat ratios, which is extremely relevant when discussing the average vegan diet which shuns even plant-based saturated fats http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9029197 >(negative correlation between post exercise testosterone concentration and intake of polyunsaturates)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11525593 >Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone
>>35557820 This. I'm a vegan and I'm sick to death of people like Freefreak promoting highcarb because the sugar doesn't turn into fat. Technically they are right. It turns into glucagen. But that turns into fat is unused. Fucking idiots.
all of this is fucking bullshit. you wont die if you go vegan (unless you are really really really retarded), and you wont die if you eat meat. if you dont go into a competitive sport where you want to compete on international level, it does not matter. if you want to do well at world level, it might matter, but some athletes claim to perform better vegan while others dont.
>>35559328 veganism is your average anorexic girls excuse for anorexia.
>>35549802 Actually this is common. Most people switching to a vegan diet feel fucking great for somewhat differing periods of time, this is the proof that they use to get people in on it, and what they fool themselves with. Its the long term that fucks with them, ESPECIALLY the raw food vegans. After a year or some the body starts to break down, start to age, start going a bit batshit insane.
There are basically close to no instance of a person going raw food vegan long term successfully without cheating. Offtimes they say they are healthy DESPITE the occasional steak of burger, and that is because their diet is so good. The ones that do ok long term basically live on pizza and protein shakes and aren't really what you would call health freaks. If you do it how its supposed to be done, you will fail. And the people in the vegan community will tell you that it is because you didn't vegan hard enough. It's a cult, get out before your body runs out of reserves and your mind goes.
>>35559629 been vegan for 6 years now, when does the insanity set in?
on a more serious note, the effect you are seeing is because veganism is probably the biggest retard magnet there is. hipsters start it because "its 2016" and they just cut out meat, eggs and milk out of their normal omni diet and just eat more of whatever is left (which is normally mostly bread, rice and potatoes, because nobody eats any vegetables at all).
add to that that they probably drink half of their calories as beer or other alcohol at hipster parties, chainsmoke, smoke weed, never sleep and lead extremely unstable (therefore stressfull) lifes.
thats how you get unhealthy.
on a related note, does the guy in the OP literally eat mainly bananas?
and does it really suprise you that this may be unhealthy
>>35559804 Don't worry anon, it's possible it may never happen, but if you feel the need to convert people to veganism, begin to worry.
When we insult vegans, we are not insulting your choice to eat plants, but an entire mindset which makes some people insufferable pricks. Hopefully this mindset will eventually one day lead to a rich vegan buying an island and setting up a vegan refuge and pay for them to all relocate, where they can all live out their lives without protesting in busy resteraunts, or screaming at normal people.
I hope you haven't turned by then, so you too can enjoy the benefit of a "vegan"less society.
>>35557820 Yes but whole plant food sources of carbohydrate come along with anti-glycation agents. The only way for AGEs to form in any significant quantity, then, is if glycolytic intermediates build up, which only happens if you're insulin resistant. So partially restricting carbohydrates will make matters worse.
If you eat a zero carbohydrate diet, ketones form AGEs even more readily than carbohydrates. You'll have more AGEs than someone on the standard american diet.
And don't forget about that protein. Unless you co-ingest a carbonyl scavenger, the kind of hyperaminoacidemia you would get from eating a piece of chicken or steak will cause as much endogenous AGE formation as pure glucose. Protein supplements like whey would be even worse.
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