I once told a friend of mine "my intelligence is far superior than their effort" when I said I was planning on changing careers to maths she scolded me because I took up the place of someone who could finish the career and would put a lot more effort into it. However, when I presented the introduction of my thesis I was heavily praised on something I spent 3 hours working on the day before. What would you say, I'm not talented in sciences? Am I obsessed and put a shit ton of effort? No. On the other hand, the only people I lift more than in my gym are the girls that have been going as long as I (~1 year), every single male there lifts more than I or eventually lifts more than I. Let's talk about things the way they are. Some people have far superior capabilities than others, that's how life is. Horrible, degrading, demeaning, but it's how it is.
>>35501229 I mean it 100% depends on what you mean by "talent". Sure nobody's gonna be a master at playing guitar if they've never played it, but when it comes to sports such as powerlifting, MMA or sprinting genetics or "talent" play a HUGE roll.
Yeah because we could all be record breaking sprinters, international Rugby players etc if we tried hard enough. I'm sorry but somebody with down syndrome can be obsessed as they want but they will never break an Olympic record
>>35501229 Absolute nonsense, strictly speaking. You can be born with a bent up spine or any number of minor deformities that will make it dramatically harder to be good at sports than someone without those deformities. Things like neural structure and hormone levels vary even more than that, and those are what we call talent when it comes to sports.
I have a long torso and short legs. Never will I ever be an elite runner. I will, however, have an edge in swimming. It's just as simple as that but with a million variables.
>>35501558 No his 50% skill is superior to the others. Upsets happen all the time in fighting. The more skilled, talented, obsessed fighter who gets all the hype, ends up knocked out because of that lucky shot thrown wildly with no skill.
Kek. At his elite level of physical achievements (or anyone in any other field for that matter) all the non-talented have been filtered out. Every single one of his peers are talented and it's dedication and hard work that sets one apart from the rest.
>>35501551 Nah see, it's just obsession like McGregor said. When you are absolutely OBSESSED with something, as long as you have no mental or physical deficiency there's nothing stopping you from becoming a star. People who are OBSESSED with a skill/sport/craft will analyze every minute detail and strive for absolute perfection. It doesn't take an intellectual genius to break down fighting or basketball into its pieces, it just takes someone who is observant and highly highly motivated.
>>35501229 I kind of agree, so long as you're not crippled, dedication and time can get you far. But there will always be someone who can hypothetically take that same dedication and time and get further with it.
>>35502525 That has to do with who grows/develops first. They are kids. The biggest kid on the baseball team general throws harder and swings with more power. Football , kids team they put biggest kid in as RB and he plows over everyone. Children develop at different speeds.
>>35501229 Bull. Talen exists. And in some cases, its unfair. I box, and I have a genetic weakness, my jaw is weak. Its loose, and if I take a shot to it, I always risk it shattering. I could lose just because of that, so I have to spend a lot of time training around it.
Inspiring to say, a lot like Will Smith saying I might be a dumb nigger but i work harder than you. There is no sense in being a narcissistic loser crybaby. If you are one, youre just lazy and afraid of hard work
>>35501252 Not what he means familia. The world is full of gifted people. The world is also filled with wasted talent. It's not necessarily the guy who starts off better that goes the farthest. But it is always the guy who dedicated himself, pushed himself, and stuck with it.
For sports >why are positions determined heavily by body type? >why are there weight classes? >why is there an effect where the whole pro team has similar birthday months through a compounded advantage of having several months physical development on other kids and getting coaches attention for being "better" since grade school >what is different bone structure? What are scottish hips? Wait there are three different types of shoulders and only one of them is present in athletes who need good shoulders?
For your brains >what is critical learning period hypothesis? >why is it so crucial to language and math early? >why is IQ so genetic?
But lettuce bee cereal. There is zero reason to have limiting beliefs and not put your all into something. Just don't be a dumbass and put your efforts into something you are a shitlord at.
>>35505026 this desu i'd go even further - dedication and hard work will get you into the top 1% of whatever it is you choose to dedicate yourself to. but top 1% doesn't cut it - top 1% still means thousands of people, and all of them are working just as hard as you did, and which one of them becomes a champion will come down to factors beyond your control - genetics, talent, giftedness, call it whatever you want.
still, even reaching this point means you've surpassed 99% of the population. you've already made it at this point.
It's really accurate hard work does the job. Literally takes decades though.
I remember when I first starting training my sport 10 years ago this fat tub of douchey shit was sucking our coaches dick at every opportunity but always always always pushed as hard as anyone else and worked as hard as anyone else if not harder.
It's been 10 years and now he's a leading athlete, lost a bunch of the weight walks about year round at 10-15% bf and is strong/explosive/athletic as fuck.
He's literally passed every single one of us because of his hard work.
Its hard to hear but it's true. It does take a long time and that's what people can't deal with.
The say someone is more talented but really what they're saying is they don't want to accept the truth and the fact that they're not willing to put in that much work consistently and don't deal with reality.
Hard work will take you further than practically everyone.
The only one is the naturally talented genetically gifted that also puts in that much work too which you'd be surprised doesn't happen often.
I know a bunch of guys that were naturally talented and didn't know what hard work was because they never had to push themselves to achieve.
>>35505523 >and which one of them becomes a champion will come down to factors beyond your control
it's also timing.. look at how many different people or teams could have NBA rings if Jordan had never gone into the NBA. Same for if certain QB played for this or that team.
it's why I'm never impressed by "State champ" sort of shit for high school sports. You're not the best of the best. You are the best of the random kids who happen to be born around the time you where who were allowed by their parents to play some given sport. Most of the time the entire team is anchored by ONE truly gifted player who goes on to pro level. That how little the team part maters at such a low level of competition.
>>35501272 You may think this punch is just a lucky shot, but you're an idiot. People who don't know fighting can't appreciate all the hours, training and skill that goes into not only this one punch, but what gave him the opportunity to throw the punch in the first place. (And, yes, I know Jose is the only that made the crucial mistake, but that's not luck either, that's McGregor getting in his head before the fight)
I think he's right about talent though. Some might have genetic advantages but it's still the dedication that gets them to the top.
>>35502420 As long as your arms are long enough, your neck is wide enough, your bones are strong enough, your frame is thick enough, your nerve endings are quick enough, your sight is good enough, your legs are long enough, you don't have asthma/heart disease/any bone genetic defect, you were raised with wholesome foods, you can do anything you want! Only YOU hold you back!
>>35507619 as with many things the truth is probably in the grey. being that this is "fit" we are inclined to be "physical" so yes a person in a wheelchair probably won't make the NFL.
HOWEVER, at the same time most people's abilities are much more malleable than they think and are often discouraged from trying simply because of initial failure. the sentiment remains valuable I think. you can poke holes in any quote, its more the gist behind it...........set your mind to something and pursue it passionately
>>35501364 >pay for university tuition >expect to not be praised for even the pittiest performance >you did it little guy, wow UR such an academic now, pls pay us :^]
When I presented my MSc thesis (lol who the fuck presents the INTRODUCTION) I got absolutely roasted by an array of 4 professors minus the one I did it under. Nonstop criticism for 2 and a half hours, unrelentlessly making me prove and validate my methods.
As a note, the thesis got published twice in the two best EU journals in offshore engineering.
What you perceive as "talent and strength" is just American academia being absolute shit tier. All men are equal.
>>35506611 He may have surpassed all his team mates, but is he a world-class athlete already? Nobody says you need talent to get really good at anything, but to be the best, you'll definitely need talent.
>>35501229 No matter what you want to do (lifting, studying, having a career), it can be expressed by a logarithmic function of results(effort) From my experience, about 2x the effort gives you about x.2 the results. This is true for anyone.
However, the actual function looks like results=a*log[base](effort)*(1+c)+b, where a (how fast the curve rises) and b (curve starting point) are parameters out of your control (external factors, talent, genetics etc) and obviously not functions of effort. I also added a c parameter, which is representative of cheating. Morals of the story: Effort (x axis) WILL take you higher on the results axis (y) but you WILL hit a plateau at some point. Someone with a marginally better a or b factor than you will have to put way less effort for the same results. Cheating can get you there faster and higher.
TLDR a man with one leg can only run so far. However, he can try.
10,000 hours of purposeful practice and all that. The only reason people are deemed to have talent in something is because they got the 10,000 hours in early. There is also luck involved; you usually need someone to spot tthe talent early and help develop it.
not even him but he clearly meant that if you take any one with similar characteristics as jordan/lebron/any of the greats, and made them work as hard as they did then they still wouldn't succeed. it's ridiculous to assume that all these other NBA pros who were 1/50th as good just weren't trying as hard or weren't "obsessed with being the best"
That's obviously what he meant, but that's just a claim, without any argument to support it. That's why I said he didn't have any point.
And honestly >similar characteristics >work as hard >they still wouldn't succeed Why wouldn't they? What makes jordan/lebron/any of the greats such special snowflakes?
Do you really think it is more ridiculous to assume that they worked harder, than it is to assume that they were just born intrinsically better at basketball? They just had a basketball gene, or were they blessed by the basketball fairy?
>>35509775 They were blessed by the genetic fairy to start. Lebron is something else because he makes no sense, someone that big should do 37 minutes+ per game and do every fast break / defend as hard, he's just a genetic freak.
But look at other NBA players, average size for: pg: 6'4" sg: 6'6" sf: 6'8" pf: 6'10" c: as high as you can go.
Sure there are exceptions everytime, like nate robinson, or even chris paul, but those dudes are anormally athletic.
The 20/80 rule apply to everything and sports are no exception.
You can reach 80% of the performance of any athlethe in any field if you work hard enough, granted neither of you are genetic anomalities, but the remaining 20% performance are just genetics.
First time I heard that so had to google, but if that's this:
>for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes
Then I don't think that's what it means.
Anyway, the OP is obviously an overstatement because just like you're fucked at being an NBA pro if you're a manlet, you won't have much luck with gymnastics as a lanklet, or quantum physics if you're mentally retarded. But the inverse - you won't ever be as good as jordan because >muh genetics - is also a completely pointless point of view.
>>35507625 because basketball isn't based on height right? its impossible for you to reach nba being 5'5, even if you a 100% accuracy, if you never miss a shot, it wouldn't matter because all the others are lot taller and would block all your shots
>>35501229 This is PC Autism at it's finest. You can be obsessed and train intensely forever. It will only get you so far, some will become better than "good". You need talent and genetics to push you to the next level and become great. Willpower alone does not make a champion.
>>35509992 It's just an incorrect definition of talent. I can be obsessed with ice dancing, but I will never be more than good no matter how hard I train. Hard work makes you good and even great, talent wins you gold medals. Hard work and dedication only get you 99% of the way there.
>>35509999 what are you trying to say? he was a manlet that trained a lot to get where he was, his greatest achievement was to block a tall guy... he is not even close to being a champion, or the best of his team, he is just a guy that stands out for being a midget among the giants
>>35509917 It's a shitty reformulation of the pareto principle. Like the pareto principle is just if you fix a few things it can have a massive effect because those few things are so important/get used so often. Most people hear it and it's p self evident so they get it and look out for it. Then you get the odd legit retard go through management and the 80 20 rule is born because the pareto principle is just too hard.
If there is no luck in fighting how does Matt Serra beat GSP? Evans ko's Liddell? Crocop gets ko'ed? Williams ko's Coleman?
There is luck, you could train, prepare for everything. .. then the other guy throws a wild hay maker that gets you off balance and throws another that knocks you out. You can work to minimize the luck factor but its always there.
>>35507662 You are so absolutely right. I was considered a prodigy as a kid, as i several times got my IQ measured to the 150's, and were years ahead of anyone at my age.
Because of that i never put ANY effort into math and the like at an early age.
When I got to high school and still didn't put any effort into it i suddenly noticed people surpassing me, who I generally wouldn't regard as being more intelligent, but they ended up better at it than me.
It probably doesn't help that I'm really bored by math.
No matter how hard you work, you will never be an elite sprinter unless you have the genetics
No matter how hard you work, you will never be an elite high jumper unless you have the genetics
No matter how strong you are, you will at a severe disadvantage against headhunted Chinese weightlifters who were selected when they were 4-5 yo based on lim length, body proprotions eg. Litteraly only picked the genetic elite.
No matter how hard you work, you will never be an elite marathon runner.
Some sports are just dictated by genetics and there's nothing you can do about it. No matter how hard anyone works, if you are 5'7, you will never get in the NBA unless you are a freak on court. Your hard work will EASILY be negated by genetics. Now, when you have genetics and hard work (and sterons), you are unstoppable.
This is why sports like MMA, football, hockey etc appeals more to the general public since there's no apparant genetic advantage that can't be negated by skill eg. Iniest, Messi, manlets in MMA.
>>35501428 >but somebody with down syndrome can be obsessed as they want but they will never break an Olympic record chances are you aren't nearly as restricted as someone afflicted with down syndrome. But alas that will the down fall of most men, a lack of trying at all. You'll continue to refuse the chance that you just might be great at something all because you want to be lazy and claim "muh genetics" are limiting me.
>>35510453 >Mastered a valid boxing technique to the point where he was unbeatable >Anyone who has ever boxed knows it about getting in, throw a punch, and get out as fast as possible, ie to be hit yourself a minimum amount of time >floyd is a shit boxer
>>35510432 >This is why sports like MMA, football, hockey etc appeals more to the general public since there's no apparant genetic advantage that can't be negated by skill eg. Iniest, Messi, manlets in MMA.
>hockey was THE example of not one on the all star teams are born outside the same month. >MMA puts the manlets into different classes, there are actually set "this height = this weight" or you will never be good splits. There's actually contention that height:weight is the most important attribute of pros. >soccer is the most body diverse with the rule of almost no one weighs over 200lbs regardless of height.
>>35507580 Problem is, what you just said and what he said are different. You're saying that natural talent or genetics give someone an advantage over the competition, but hard work is necessary.
In that quote McGregor says that talent is irrelevant, and that only the hard work matters. I think up to a certain skill level this is true, but when you're world-class you have to have both. It's kind of a silly argument because I don't disagree with his main idea, but it's naive to think that every human is as capable of being the best at something as every other.
No he's not world class but he's smart enough to no that he won't be an Olympian and now makes rougly £30K-£40K a year from his sport which isn't a lot compared to other jobs but the fact he's an athlete earning anything when he's not elite level.
Bare in mind there are A LOT of elites in this sport that aren't making much more than him.
It's hard for me to estimate earnings but we're talking about 10-20 elites earning a range from £50-£100 a year
He doesn't have a job he hates. He gets paid to train, teach and do media jobs. He's got sponsors. He's been in the media AND he doesn't compete despite there being a competition circuit.
My point is hard work will take you really reaaaally far.
He was on the negative side of scales and has surpassed everyone.
Again people don't like to hear this shit because it attacks their lazy asses and really makes them address why they arent sucessful or going after things they want and it always comes down to not being patient enough to wait 10,15 maybe 20 years and not being able to consistently show up and grind.
A prime example of this is Brendan Schaub in the UFC.
Average football player that outworked everyone but never quite made it in foot ball. Average UFC fighter that never quite made it in UFC.
Compared to elites he's not good enough to stand out.
Compared to average population he immensely surpasses everyone because only a slim few will do what it actually takes.
Still wasn't good enough to surpass the elites but was good enough to stand with them.
>>35501252 I agree. I first realized this when I was first working with peers on a project. There's guys who are a LOT better than me at what I'm doing. But then I realized those guys do nothing but work, work, work. They don't have a gf or don't have time for their gfs. They don't do a lot of sports on the side. They're always about work, they're in the office at 8°° and leave it on 7°°. Every day. But sometimes, I just take one day's time and write something that's way better than what they're doing. Just like that. Still, in the long run they'll beat my ass because corporations want a reliable workforce and not a person who is gifted but lazy and unreliable. So I just keep playin vidya and post shit on 4chan.
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