[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
Structure issues?
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /diy/ - Do It yourself

Thread replies: 33
Thread images: 12
File: 20160201_182806.jpg (3 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20160201_182806.jpg
3 MB, 4128x2322
1944 house, was advised that I could remove a wall that ran perpendicular to the ceiling joists. Twenty foot stick roof span, wall was two feet off center 15' across 30' span running east west. Removed wall and patched with no immediate issue. However now that it has snowed quite a bit the plaster (plaster over plasterboard, not lath, not drywall) is now cracking in five places and getting worse and an old hairline foundation crack close to where I removed the wall appears to be expanding. I believe its caused by the load transfer from the removed central wall to the exterior walls. The wall I removed was fifteen feet long running half way across the 30' span crawl space underneath. The logic in my advisor was that the structure of the side without the wall is identical to the side from which I removed the wall.

My question is, what cracking in the plaster is normal/acceptable. If I add a beam with a post in the center, just as a partial support to the roof joists where the wall was is that a good idea? The foundation is getting a little water nearby too which I will be fixing with raingutters soon.

And, if professional advice is recommended, where do I go without being taken for a ride?

Attached pictures of the cracks, attic and the crawlspace.
>>
File: 20160201_182508.jpg (2 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20160201_182508.jpg
2 MB, 4128x2322
>>
File: 20160201_181925.jpg (3 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20160201_181925.jpg
3 MB, 4128x2322
>>
File: 20151215_200406.jpg (3 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20151215_200406.jpg
3 MB, 4128x2322
In this picture you can see the outline of the old wall
>>
Here is the wall before removal
>>
Here you can see the stick roof
>>
>>940010
So the tldr version is your redneck friend said that you can take out a wall, in the process you removed a support, and now the hose is starting to slowly cave in on itself?
>>
File: Beamstructure.png (17 KB, 1120x719) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Beamstructure.png
17 KB, 1120x719
>>940010
... this is all kinds of herpa derpa. but since the pictures seem legit im gonna give you a legit response...

was your friend an engineer? or even an architect? what about someone who has experience [real 5+ years] in framing and general home construction?

No? why'd you listen to him..

How big was this wall? Was it just basically 2x4s?

Assuming you want to keep the space as open as possible.. Ur gonna need to push the load off somewhere else.. Ur gonna need to tear up some more sheetrock/plaster but we'll worry about fixing that AFTER your home doesn't wanna fall in on itself.

you're gonna need some 2x6 boards of 16 feet in length, assuming you can not fuck up any more, you need a span of 30 feet, so you're gonna need 5 pieces of 2x6

Now you can either use lag bolts with washers/counter sunk every 12 inches, or you can hammer and nail with 6-Gauge 4-inch long steel nails.

Use construction adhesive between all the boards too. LOTS of it, you're gonna need like 10 tubes of the stuff, lucky for you its like 2 dollars a tube...

cont.
>>
>>940097
Actually. as I was reading more.. I noticed you said your house is splitting apart. is the cracks in the middle of the house? If so. broski you've legit got foundation issues. because then you are having the weight that once was spread evenly across the house, now going to the outside edges.. and the foundation there cannot support it.

now if the cracks are happening on one side of the house.. that's a little better. means you've got differential settlement and that's a tad easier to fix, you would have to pour some new footings, and rent a house jack. but im also assuming your house is off the ground. IE: has a crawl space under it.
>>
File: 20160201_182736.jpg (3 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20160201_182736.jpg
3 MB, 4128x2322
The foundation crack was there before the removal. But I believe it is growing slightly. The plaster cracks are along the side walls and the end wall, and the foundation crack is on the side.

My plan to fix it was to put a large beam in the attic, tied to the ceiling joists somehow, with one or two 6x6 posts supporting from footings in the crawl space. I was planning on the beam being an lvl, with a contiguous span of 30'
>>
File: 20160201_181845.jpg (2 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20160201_181845.jpg
2 MB, 4128x2322
And the guy who told me it would be fine specifically does wall changes and remodels, and he's licenses and he has more than 5 years experience. However, he's not a structural engineer and yup, I should have gotten one.
>>
>>940188

Nigger I know licensed people in my trades with 15 years experience that shouldn't be given advice much less doing actual work.

Reviews and portfolios trump any license, certification, and years on the job. Experience means nothing. It just means you've been doing a job for X years. It doesn't guarantee proficiency. Not one bit.

I've had to fix fuck ups of guys that have had more years in my trade than I've had revolutions around the sun.
>>
You basically removed a load bearing wall with out supporting it. Like the other posters I've said. In 1940's homes a lot of the time the rafter joists are over lapped and nailed 2X4s maybe you can sew in the attic. Once they wall is out you get sagging at the joints. An lvl beam will probably be better than the suggestion of 2X6s but I recommend looking up a load table for a 30ft space. You're going to need something pretty sizeable. I recommend replacing that beam in the basement with one as well. That looks super cheesy. Is the wall you removed right above that crawl space beam? Dig a couple 2ftx 1ft areas under where your beam supports will go. Use some short rebar and mesh for reinforcement. I recommend a couple Jack posts to hold beam since they are adjustable. If your ceiling beam is above the crawl space beam then you cause your 4X6 or whatever to support the roof just make sure they are over a floor joist.
>>
I took down walls in my 1940s remodel and put in 14"x10" glue lams, spanning the entire width of the house, supported by 12"x12" footings independent of the foundation. And where I live it rarely snows.
If you have shit piling on your roof and you see cracks forming, support it before your roof caves in and you die.
>>
>>940010
Loos like your roof is going to fall on top of you while you sleep mate. I would get a professional contractor in for safety reasons dude. Just to make sure. It might be not such a huge deal as we are making it out to be but would you want to have a huge cost later or even hurt yourself or family because you didn't call for extra help?
>>
>>940355

And to add to this, you need to get this done ASAP because if that house collapses, fully or partially, and your remodeling is, and it will be, the reason behind that then the insurance company isn't going to cover shit.
>>
File: 20160202_200459.jpg (3 MB, 4128x2322) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
20160202_200459.jpg
3 MB, 4128x2322
Thanks for your advice guys. I just finished putting up a temporary beam on floor jacks today so I don't die. I'll get a real professional in there for the permanent fix.

You guys rock
>>
>>940504
there is an episode of this old house I think last season where they do this with some composite boards. I don't even think it was really a diy operation for those know it alls. They had some weird jacks and when the beams lined up they bolted them together. it was rather interesting but not like a one man job. I don't remember all the details. but its one of those things you will probably see eventually.

on a side note why does ever single diy show have people taking down walls. soon everything is going to look like an open gym.
>>
>>940010
Looks like Jupiter
>>
>>942072

They made a few flitch beams. That's what you're thinking of.
>>
>>940010
is that jupiter?
>>
>>942072
>on a side note why does ever single diy show have people taking down walls. soon everything is going to look like an open gym.
I often think the same thing. wide open floor plans are all the rage but noise and kitchen smells can become an problem. EVERYONE on DIY shows says they 'like to entertain' and 'if I'm in the kitchen I still feel like I'm part of the action'. yeah whatever...
and if I hear 'open and airy' one more time...
>>
Structural engineer reporting.

People need to fucking remember that houses don't just support vertical load, but also lateral load from the ground, wind, snow, forces generated from eccentricity of construction, etc.
I get into arguments with architects all the time when they cry about replacing a timber stud wall with a moment resisting steel frame.

What they don't understand is that crosswalls within houses act as shear walls to absorb lateral loading....line a really deep beam spanning between walls and floors.

Op do you have plans of the house? I could tell you what the fuck happened maybe. But my explanation above seems likely.
>>
>>942754
>EVERYONE on DIY shows says they 'like to entertain' and 'if I'm in the kitchen I still feel like I'm part of the action'. yeah whatever...

>when I'm in the bathroom dropping off a hot load of fresh turds I like to be able to still wave and say hi to those in the living room. Its so open and airy in this bathroom that the whole house can smell it. Let knock down this wall.
>>
>>942173
>flitch beams
Thanks for having a better memory than I do. I'm going to look it up again.
>>
>>942884
Holy shit yes, there's lots of wooden villas where I live that people just love to renovate. "Oh let's just tear off all this sarking" seems to be their first thought, every time. Used to work with this really sour old builder who would say that people shouldn't be able to buy plasterboard without a licence.

Most hilarious example of dumb shit done was probably the house I lived in during my second year of university. It was a really grand old building, huge. Had been cut into three and placed one beside the other no longer touching each other and holding each other up. My flat up on the second floor was leaning in three different directions. No footings, no reinforcement, just a disaster waiting to happen.
>>
>>940504
is that where the old wall was?
have you checked that there are beams under that floor?
god help you if its just floor boards and air under that
>>
>>942884
OP has a simple house. Not a McMansion. His shear walls are external. Is floor/curling diaphragms are flexible. The interior wall was not a shear wall.
>>
>>943496
Ceiling...not the stupid Canadian ice sweeping activity
>>
>>943497
>curling
>stupid
>canadian
faggot desu
>>
>>943496
Timber shear walls exist. Most internal partitions at high level and many even at ground level in the uk are structural. Timbers can also act as windposts to external masonry walls.

If he doesn't have internal shear walls, the the floors should not be flexible, but should be acting as a rigid diaphragm to buttress masonry subject to out of plane bending, and transfer lateral forces into the return walls.
>>
File: Untitled.png (196 KB, 529x893) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Untitled.png
196 KB, 529x893
>>944173
Hrmm...

In the US, residential wood diaphrams can automatically be taken as flexible.

I was assuming OP has 2x floor joists with wood sheathing. The photos appear to support this assumption.

Regardless, maybe things are done differently in the UK. I have never taken an internal wall as a shear wall. I just don't know what I would do with the shear reaction at the bottom of the wall, because I would never send it through a wood joist floor. I much prefer anchors into a concrete stem wall.
>>
File: 120963096.jpg (8 KB, 212x238) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
120963096.jpg
8 KB, 212x238
I have no fucking clue what you people are talking about, and google is getting raped as a result, but watching people who know their shit discuss their shit gets me wet.

This board is awesome.
Thread replies: 33
Thread images: 12
Thread DB ID: 508582



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.