storytime

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>>91863317

>>91863317
fuck yeah

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>>91863325

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>>91863341

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>>91863353
>inside me
lewd

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>>91863369

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>>91863383

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>>91863396
I assure you this was all planned ahead of time and not made on the fly. Bendis was in on it.

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>>91863418

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>>91863436

>>91863418

Do I remember correctly that this Dosstvow guy is involved with Nextwave's Beyond Corporation?

>>91863396
>I don't need a jetpack, all I need is hate!

>>91863459
carol bout to go binary even further beyond

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>>91863459
Alright then

>>91863396
Still a bit confused as to why not just use Oblivion, but this guy works okay.

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>>91863497
Aw shit its on now

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>>91863520
What can phil do?

>>91863497
L-lewd as fuck
Spoiler this shit

>omega symbols
Need I even say it?

>>91863497
>omega symbols
did they just combine into one of the servitors mentioned here?
>>91863383

>>91863383
oh, so one of the multiverses was a female? the Waifu-verse?

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>>91863548
I have a few questions

>>91863574

stick to cartoons waifufag

>>91863574
I want to fuck it

>>91863574
if that is the case, maybe the lesbian Utopia Demiurge created which America Chavez came from was his attempt to recreate it in a bottle

>>91863590
Is this referencing something?

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>>91863590
>>91863574
giant sized singularity

>>91863607
Jojo?

>>91863607
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Psi-Hawk

>>91863607
>is this Psi-Hawk created by the Psi-force referencing something?
Yes, the Psi-hawk that the Psi-force from the New Universe was able to create
Only they were teenagers

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>>91863628
>>91863607
It's a another new universal thing

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Emmett_Proudhawk_(Earth-148611)

>>91863520
I love this kind of chain reaction teamwork.

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>>91863647

>>91863678
Please don't die

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>>91863678
Rise my Galactus

>>91863700
DAMN IT

>>91863700
what the fuck conner
you better bring him back galactus

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>>91863700
MMMMMMMMM vore

Simon seemed fun but he really only stood around and tanked hits

>>91863700
now go forth, galactus, and zap to the extreme

>>91863700
You died well, Anti-Man, thanks for making sure that stone hasn't rolled to the bottom of the hill just yet.

>>91863700
is this the shortest career of any herald?

>>91863700
F
Also this felt totally rushed but satisfactory nonetheless

>>91863748
>I will! Thank you, herald

>>91863678
>I give you Cosmic Absolution!
fucking awesome!

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>>91863744
>Not even a metaphor
>remember when everybody thought it was metaphor

It's like Ewing was in the threads. I get the feeling he wanted to drag this out more.

>>91863744
Non-vorefags will never understand this

>>91863765
I think the Asian lady who used to be an Iron Man supporting character who turned into a herald in that mini drawn by Tolibao where she made out with the Silver Surfer was one for an even shorter time

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>>91863798

>>91863744
how did he taste /co/? Yellow Jelly Bean

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>>91863823

>>91863823
Did the First Firmament take over Eternity?

>>91863830
A juicy meatball

>>91863798
alright everybody, form pairs. carol and monica, into the hyperbolic time chamber. panther and blue, you're training with mr popo

>>91863823
So let's see, the FF's initial gambit of using Galactus to just siphon all of Eternity's energy failed, as did his attempt to stall the Ultimates, but he still has Logos as his top enforcer, and I'm not really sure he needs anything else.

I guess Ewing is saving the three-way marvel fusion for sweeps

>>91863798
>>91863823
>I'm getting in TRAINING. Heading to COLLEGE

yeah that'll put the kibosh on the embodiment of metaphysics. just hit up DeVry Technical School of Multiverse Theory and Custodial Arts.

>>91863904
there's one out there somewhere in the multiverse

>>91863904
she's taking basket weaving anon and Women and Gender Studies

>>91863606
>>91863574
Wasn't Satanic Cthulu from 3rd Multiverse?

>>91864143
fifth

>>91863904
look at it this way: in one word bubble Ewing explained why America's going to college, something whatshername couldn't in two entire issues.

>Monica is inside Adam, but he lets her drive
so he's a sub in the bedroom. good to know. and poor Carol didn't get to merge with anyone....except to zap the pair with excess energy. threeway metaphor? eh, I prefer it to the Rhodey romance.
what should we call Monica + Adam? Adamica? Mondam? Wait......Madam?

>>91864205
Blue Photon

>>91864205
Blue-Shift? Blue Marvel shifting the colour Spectrum.

>>91863904
That actually explains why America's college is so full of bullshit science, she picked some school in another reality where she hopes to comprehend what they're up against actually.
Ewing is a genius.

>>91863823
So if this is canceled and Eternity shows up somewhere, we can just assume it's this guy pretending to be him?

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>>91864205

>>91864261
>>91864235
those are both pretty good. I vote for "Blue Shift" cause it references science and has clever wordplay involved.
I think we should reserve "Madam" for insults.....

>>91863341
>>91863353
>>91863383
>>91863396
>>91863418
>>91863436
>>91863459
I love Cosmic arcs but I think this is not the team for this kind of story. It feels strange.

>>91863574
Yes. It's actually canon that the Marvel and DC universe started banging and had a child.

>>91863590
>>91863628
I thought this team was a bit under powered to fight the ultimates, but i guess this is what Phil had planned

>>91864263
you know, it'd be the best comics logic.

>>91864889
>not the team for this
you think? other than BP they're a bunch of characters basically built for cosmic stories, just rarely used for them.

Hell, Carol used to roll with the Starjammers. it was a very character defining period for her

>>91864981
Maybe you are right, hope it gets better.

>>91863798
lol, Ewing still has to acknowledge the stupid college thing

Is there an omnibus or a collected edition of the New Universe inprint?

>>91863418
Finally SOMEONE explains this.

>>91863798
>"Fuck this gay earth"
> - Erwing, 2017, while writing this page

Galactus should ask Owen for some help.

He probably won't like the multiverse he made get blown up

>>91863497
>Ewing goes SMT and DBZ in the same book

How is he not the #1 writer at Marvel yet?

>>91865682
Owen palmed the job off to The Maker

>>91865698
bendis still hasn't died and taken his blackmail with him

>>91863846
>one old favorite to help out the Ultimates
Who's that going to be?
Captain Britain, maybe? Vogt had a picture of him and he has extended multiversal knowledge
Or maybe Stellaris, to fight the Dark Celestials?

>>91863700
Damn, the pottery hit me right in the feels

>>91863798
If she went to college in order to train to defeat the first firmament, then why did she go to a phony school for brown people?

>>91863353
>Multicolored rebels
RACE WAR

>>91863418
So that explains what that Dark Celestial was, but not what the hell it was doing.

>>91863497
FUSION HA

>>91863548
Naturally Emmet Proudhawk is yet another New Universe reference.

>>91863517

The problem with Oblivion is that if he acts, he goes against his own nature.

>>91863555

Should we start looking for mentions of the number 52 in these issues?

>>91864890

When? I know they made out in JLA/Avengers, but when did that kid pop up?

>>91865941
At the end. Krona took the "egg", remember? At least ithink it was him but there was definite impregnation.

>>91863765
Nope, Johnny Storm has him beat. And Deadpool if you consider that story canon.

>>91864889
I agree, i never read the non cosmic parts of this comic.

>>91865941
I'm one of the people who expected Oblivion to be the Jailer so I'm probably biased, but I really do hope that it gets some focus eventually. It's always struck me as the be-all and end-all of cosmic villains since those pages from that Thor Annual.

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>>91865843

Easy to understand once you get Aspirants = Gentry.

The Aspirants mentioned before in Kieron Gillen's Iron Man... also fighting the Celestials. I am guessing that was an earlier attempt to destroy them prior to an invasion.

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>>91865970

I think you mean the 'Cosmic Egg'. But that was no product of Kismet and Eternity doing the nasty, that was Krona himself. The egg was observed by Metron.

>>91865993
>I'm one of the people who expected Oblivion to be the Jailer

I am another one of those people, actually.

And I agree. I made this. It's inept, but it does indicate how I view Oblivion.

>>91866097
man, I need one of those hypercrisis play-by-plays that covers all the continuity ewing is drawing from for this. I still need to get around to reading marvel boy this weekend

>>91866198

...That could be a good thread. With Ultimates, Marvel is finally doing something which is at least like Hypercrisis-worthy material.

>>91866227
As much as I appreciate Ewing's respect and usage of extremely niche characters and concepts, I can't help but wonder how much better his stuff would sell if he were willing to 'toe the line' a little more and do a more classic run with popular characters that still showed off his love for the old lore and stranger cosmic stuff. If he reined in the crazy shit for a bit, I think he could get really big and have more free rein to do his own really abstract stuff in the long run.

>>91866147
I like it-can't claim to be well-versed enough in how the abstracts currently function (especially now with everything in flux) to critique accuracy, but your view of Oblivion fits mine pretty well. Something outside of hierarchies and realities utterly, simultaneously more powerful than any standard evil multiversal threat and infinitely more limited in opportunities to actually act upon the world.

>>91866314
>do a more classic run with popular characters
isn't that basically his run on Mighty Avengers?

>>91866358
Did Mighty Avengers have a classic lineup? IIRC most of the characters were pretty niche.

Then again, I guess it could just be that Marvel hasn't really given him a good chance. I'd kill to have him on Thor.

>>91865682
it's where he keeps his things!

>>91863497
We Darksied now!

>>91866147
Nice, this is how I pictured it as well (Althought it is missing the neutral zone at the edge of the multiverse). I guess that in this graph the first firmament would fill the opposite page.

>>91863418
So this is how they're gonna explain Hydracap, right? The new Madam Hydra is a host to one of these things.

>>91865843
>So that explains what that Dark Celestial was, but not what the hell it was doing.

It provoked Civil War 2. Truly a crime against the cosmos.

>>91867012
>>91867025

Kek, if Ewing is actually secretly using the Dark Celestials to unify all of the Marvel events into the Eternity War, my respect for Marvel's current writing will increase substantially.

>>91867074
>my respect for Marvel's current writing
lets not give credit where its not due
Ewing's writing is the only thing earning respect here. Bendis doesn't get to coast off someone else making the most of the mess he made

>>91867074
Okay, but also consider they're bringing a bunch of cosmic beings into the mix.
Which they made Ulysses into by way of Poochy-ing at the end.

Ulysses is gonna come back at the end of the story and deal the decisive blow against TFF.

>>91863418
>tieing the First Firmament/Astro-Gods from Morrison's Marvel Boy, Aspirants/Celestial War from Gillen's Iron Man, the Death Celestials from Fraction's Defenders and the Celestial Destructor from Bendis CWII together effortlessly
Ewing is the greatest continuity wizard that Marvel has had since Gruenwald died.

>>91865698
He writes good comics and good comics don't sell.

>>91863341
INTELLECTRON!!! YOU BITCH!

>>91867412
YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD I READ YOUR BOOK

>>91867012

Daaamn. Now THAT is hypercrisis level thinking.

>>91867238

Frankly, I hope we never ever see him again.

The event was as pointless as 'Fear Itself'.

>>91867169
Fair enough, that was too generously worded. Better expressed as 'I'll look much more fondly on this wave of Marvel stories if Ewing gets to patch them all together into something actually good'.

>>91867238
I really don't think that will happen, but it will suck if it does.

>>91863520
>Proudhawk
EWING YOU MAD MAN

No one has given this much of a shit about the New Universe since Shooter left. Thank you Based Ewing.

>>91863700
F.

You went from a throwaway villain in a mini no one cared about and worked your way up to being the most compelling character in my favorite current Marvel book.

>>91863880
He also has whatever Astro-Gods are still left whereas Eternity only has one celestial left.

>>91865682
That's what MM created the Council of Makers for.

>>91865595
I fucking wish. They did a very brief and incomplete run of trades in the 00s, then started to put out new editions for the trades when Starbrand and Nightmask got announced and was getting released, but after that bombed in sales, they presumably scrapped their plans for releasing the rest.

Help send letters though. Hopefully Ewing has raised enough interest in the New Universe with this book that they'll release the rest.

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>this whole issue
>this whole series

Based Ewing giving a reason for why America even exist as a comic.

>>91868478
Its like how he made Civil War II slightly more understandable

Liking the series, disliking the fact that they have to keep breaking up the flow of the story arc because America has to go to a silly college in a poorly written book.

>>91863798
Hah! He went from CW damage control to America Damage control. Marvel really doesnt deserve him.

Also, I highly doubt that Ribera will ever acknowledge the real reason why América is going to college

>>91863880
>>91867886
Incase the flashbacks at the beginning of the comic weren't clue enough. The thing they were having so much trouble beating, and only won against it because of Galactus, is a servant creation of the Aspirants.

FF created the Aspirants that the Celestials came from. Aspirants created the energy fetus things to serve them.

The Ultimates had to pull some serious power plays to beat one of those servants...

Btw, just saying. Anyone want to bet the Celestial TOAA has been preparing for this since the beginning? What if he is waiting outside of reality in order to spring his master plan surprise attack to destroy the FF? What if that plan has a chance of destroying everything and the Ultimates end up having to fight against TOAA to save Eternity while Galactus and Eternity have to fight against the FF?

I am actually excited to see where this goes.

>>91863700
No

>>91863846
>Ewing answers the Shin Megami Tensei question
Kek

>>91866097
On how many fucking levels of hypercrisis fuckery is Ewing into?

>>91868787
>we might see TOAA actually doing something in our lifetimes

Oh boi

>>91867346
Truth. He even explained why Thanos had that fucking gun in the CWII preview.

>>91863590
The New Universe fans are fucking crying right now, right? Who EVER thought we were gonna get it tapped like this?

>>91870170

Wait, how is that explained?

>>91863700
F

>>91863798
It's so stupid that America is the bull-headed cosmic badass in this book and the fucking hyper-rican teenage girl in her own. And now Ewing has to give up Good MAC for the Bad, fuck.

>>91870278
He attacks a Kree ship before hitting Earth, which is shown in Ultimates and is where he picks up the gun.

>>91870429
Shi'ar, not Kree. He got the guns from the Shi'ar because he was still partially depowered from his re-entry into the omniverse.

>Adam Warlock tribunal still dead
Dammit Adam, you're supposed to come back in a cocoon.

>>91870452
Whoops, my bad.

Honestly, Ewing deserved to be working at the same time as Gru or Busiek were at their heights. He's a continuity madman and (well, Rebirth is getting there a bit) comics mostly don't give a fuck for continuity anymore.

>>91870452
>>91870466

Ah, okay.

Man, Ewing is working hard to salvage the mess Bendis/etc. made.

God, the incursion storyline and Secret Wars were so bad.

He does Cosmic Marvel better than anyone since Giffen (who did the best Thanos since Infinity Gauntlet Thanos).

>>91863383
OH LORD FOR YOU SHALL RETURN RETURN RETURN
AND WE SHALL BURN BURN BURN
FOR WE ARE THE LOW, THE CURSED, THE BEGGAR
AND YOU ARE THE END, THE CURTAIN, THE OMEGA

>>91870507
>Rebirth is getting there a bit
It is? Because this whole Superman: Reborn storyline is an absolutely goddamn clusterfuck and Jurgens is nowhere near competent enough to make it work.

>>91870718
I just mean that people actually seem to give a shit what happens in one book or another. Which you don't have in Marvel right now, mostly.

>>91870828
Oh, yeah, that's fair. I thought you meant more the tight interweaving of continuity to patch up loose ends and create a cohesive whole. Rebirth is doing a good job of making the universe feel like a universe again instead of various patches of people telling their own stories like current Marvel or DCYou.

>>91870828
It always utterly confounds me that they seem to find it so difficult to co-ordinate their narratives. Is communication between writers that hard to manage?

>>91870718
>this whole Superman: Reborn storyline is an absolutely goddamn clusterfuck

It was certainly confusing.

>>91863880
>Logos as his enforcer

Didn't Logos rebel against it in the last chapter? I thought the First Firmament only pushed Order and Chaos into creating Logos to hurt the universe, not that he was controlling them.

>>91870911
When you're putting out like 70 books and have an understaffed and underpaid editorial department, yes.

>>91870932
Only if you care about chronology. Continuity is ok for the most part.

>>91870962
Fucking Marvel, man.

>>91870952
>Didn't Logos rebel against it in the last chapter?

No.

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>>91863418
>>91863823
Guys, what if the "Eternity" that took Ulysses away was actually the First Firmament posing as Eternity?

>>91870911
Not if editorial is good.

>>91867238
Ulysses was taken by the first firmament.

He's a cosmic bitch now.

>>91868787
>FF
Fantastic Four?

>>91863548
My gods. Is this is the best Marvel book for story and art or WHAT?!

>>91871407
First firmament.

>>91871592
thats TFF not FF

>>91863548
If the powers are the same then Phil can absorb others' powers and use them at a vastly amplified level.

>>91867346
Definetly, and the best part is that he does it in such a way that you don't even need to know that these things are references to understand the story, but if you do get them the experience is enhanced. Ewing sees continuity as a tool and knows how to use its full potential without confusing casual readers too much like Busiek did.

>>91863548
So the Beast-Men are the High Evolutionary's soldiers (we know that the HE will team up with the Maker in later issues) and the Demonic entity is related to Chthon, right?

>>91867346
>>91869653
The only way Ewing could possibly go more Hypercrisis would be by acknowleding that the 6th multiverse is the X-Men Animated Universe as shown in the final issue of the comic adaptation of the X-Men Animated Series, or by referencing the Brothers from DC vs Marvel and/or Access.

>>91871639
Then that's a problem for whoever wrote the that post, but as per this issue which is story timed in this thread the first firmament created the aspirants.

another good chapter

>>91863823
>W-well, if you're gonna eat my Rodsvow ... I'LL EAT YOUR ETERNITY, YOU JERK.

>>91872381
>as shown in the final issue of the comic adaptation of the X-Men Animated Series

Whoa, what?

>>91873000

Adventures of the X-Men #12

Universe ends due to the Phoenix or something, Living Tribunal is shown overseeing the formation of a new one (complete with Galan cameo) and brings up both the Brothers and the Spectre.

>>91870623
>God, the incursion storyline and Secret Wars were so bad.

I respectfully disagree, fag.

>>91873274

I don't. It was pretty crap. Not the concept, but the execution.

>>91873274
>respectfully
>fag
4chan

>>91873338
>Not the concept, but the execution.
Seconded. Hickman took a cool idea but didn't have his characters act the way they should have acted and didn't use characters that should have logically been used. All he cared about was the SMALL GROUP OF BIG MEN MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS.

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>>91863383

That cosmos kinda looks like nemesis, the being that created the universe and the infinity gems by killing herself at the dawn of time.

>>91873274
The incursions had an interesting premise but nothing actually came from it. The Illuminati got to play god, cost them the universe, and murdered billions to trillions of humans and nothing ever came of it. The most we got to see was Namor and T'challa hissing at each other.

Secret Wars was interesting at first, but you knew a lot of the things that were going to happen and it was basically like watching a water bottle slowly roll down a hill as it gains momentum.

>>91872085
Yeah, High Evolutionary vs. Chton.

>>91863396
Those cosmic arms and mouth look amazing. I'm surprised at how much foreman has improved since the series started.

>>91873523
Maybe a reimagining of her? The tiara is shaped wrong, she is wearing robes instead of pants, and she doesn't have the coattails.

That said I am not a fan of Eternity ever being female. One of the big things was that DC was always a feminine universe while Marvel was always a masculine one. That said meh I have gained enough faith in Ewing that if it gets brought back up again I am sure he will do something interesting with it.

Captcha sucks right now, asked me to click on all the squares with a vehicle in them and showed me a freakin car dealership lot...

>>91873640
he's not coloring himself anymore, that's probably why

>>91863562
oh, good catch

>>91873218

Read it. Fascinating stuff.

Didn't particularly care for the swipe at the Brothers. But eh.

>>91863590
>Indigo is still knocked the fuck out

>>91873640
The problem was never the pencils, it was the coloring. There's a new colorist on here that isn't absolute dog shit like the one they had at the beginning.

>>91872381
It's not. He was already asked (I don't remember if via twitter or in the backpages) but his answer was "categorically not"

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>>91872381
>>91873000

Here it is

>>91873539
> nothing actually came from it

The Richards disappeared from the multiverse after having had enough of everything in there, the Maker became the guardian of the multiverse, Doom reconsidered his life choices, Namor apparently had PTSD and so he fucked off somewhere too, and we got ANAD. Also, the current storyline from this very comic, due to the multiverse still being weak, in a way.

I don't really know what else did you expect, the only thing I can take out from your line of thought is the civilians distrusting the heroes after what the Illuminati did(not like it was public knowledge, and everyone but Doom, Richards, and Molecule Man got their memory of the event wiped), and it's not like the Marvel Citizens trust their heroes anyway, since now we basically got into Dark Reign 2.0.

On a fundamental level, the only actual flaw I can see with the story is that they escalated the stakes so much, that going to regular hero vs hero brawls afterward seem like a massive step down, thus not seeing any tension in what might happen to them(outside of the deal with TFF, that is). But I guess that has more to do with the very nature of comics and them having to keep rolling stories until the day they're no more.

>>91873907

>Categorically no

...Too bad.

>>91873957
>Namor apparently had PTSD and so he fucked off somewhere too

Well... the Squadron Supreme killed him. And then they spent the rest of their series un-killing him.

Frankly, Marvel NOW! was kind of like a weaker version of the New 52.

>>91873539
>>91873957
Also, Marvel currently lacks writers anywhere near Ewing's scale to bring good stories, with the only good ones I can think of right now being Lemire and Spencer, and they're very hit and miss.

>>91863383
Are those the guys that had the concordance engine from Fraction's defenders?

>>91874142
yup

that's even part of the recommended reading on the letters page

We can all agree that Marvel doesn't deserve Ewing

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>>91874182
I'm very happy he's having fun and kicking ass, but I do wish he'd come back to 2000AD and do more Zombo or Dredd soon.

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>>91874182
>Ewing won't write Legion
truly the darkest timeline

>>91874228
How many 2000AD guys come back from the US, though?

>>91863590
>>91863628
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzAQu23t19A

>>91874424
Dan Abnett has like three different series intermittently going on right now. And Ewing did come back for a Zombo one-shot recently in the 40th anni special. Rob Williams is kinda half and half right now.

>>91873907
>>91873825
Understandable really, that comic is pretty obscure, it's a TV adaptation and the idea was pretty stupid. Especially since the 90s Marvel Animated universe already exists in the multiverse.

>>91873957
Surprisingly the whole Incursion-Secret Wars is currently being followed up on in Jessica Jones of all places.

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Man I've not been feelin' Ultimates hype since Oblivion got cucked. Let's just get this shit out of the w-
>>91863353
>CELESTIALS ORIGIN
>ON THE SECOND PAGE
>TYING IN ALL VARIANTS
I'M SORRY I EVER DOUBTED HIM
HERO WE NEED NOT THE ONE WE DESERVE

>>91863590
>>91863628
This is some Captain Planet shit

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>>91863383
>>91873523
>>91873647
IT'S FUCKING HER
FIRST APPEARANCE SINCE HER DEBUT
HE FOUND A WAY TO PERFECTLY SLOT HET INTO CONTINUITY
WHILST SIMULTANEOUSLY MANEUVERING AROUND THE COPYRIGHT BULLSHIT
NOT EVEN STARLIN COULD PULL THIS OFF LET THAT SINK IN

SOMEBODY GET ME A CIGARETTE FFS

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>>91863517
This issue's given me complete faith.
It's not even about nature. Oblivion's nothing. This guy's something. That's why he's got initiative, and resources, and agents.
I still really hope Big O shows to illustrate the difference but gosh darn it all it makes sense. I 'member an anon suggesting Ewing might make sense of something else and I didn't think he had it in him but here I am getting Hypercrisis'd on.

>>91863353
Given that the first firmament seems to hate any sort of alteration of the status quo, as well as evolution and free will, It seems like he might be the force pushing the rock down in the myth of sysiphus/Galactus.

>>91863517
Oblivion is part of the wheel of time. He's death in the life and death cycle of the multiverse, the isn't to eternity's is. The first firmament is just an absolute everything, he exists outside of the cycle. He's more like a biblical God, he even refers to eternity as his child, and was refered to as "skyfather" in last issue.

>>91863369
>He moves from the front of the panels to deep inside
>The universes spilling out of him fall into the multiverse under the panels

Nice.

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>>91872381
>>91873000
>>91873218
>>91873778
>>91873825
>>91873907
I asked him about the general topic once upon a time (reality resetting in Dr Strange, Man-Thing, PAD Captain Marvel, etc..) and his answer was that universe rebirth =/= mulitverse rebirth.
Seems to me that Galan was a bit of a meme (in the literal sense). The core essence of his being is a holdover from the 6th Multiverse, but his "origin" is strained through a 7th cosmos concept of space-time and fractalized across the branching multiversal, each of which have their own constant self-contained reboots.
Also I've had that X-Men issue sitting on my harddrive for months. Haven't been in a storytime mood for ages either, but this fuckin' issue man...

>>91876161
Bullshit until addressed. I have every reason to believe Oblivion predates even the Firmament. What you're suggesting puts FF on tier with Above-All-OtherrrrrrrRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GUYS

FF

F FUCKING F

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>>91863459
aint that some shit

>>91876452
I mentioned this when the preview was out, but it was thought TOAA might not play a role in the storyline.

Also, if TFF was the first being to ever exist, how come he doesn't mention him? Someone should ask Ewing on Twitter.

>>91876503
WHAT

>>91876503
The Dreaming/Black Celestial isn't the First Firmament, if that's what you're thinking.

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>>91876038
Way ahead of you anonfam. Already planning the thread.
There's some proper Hypercrisis shit afoot.

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>>91876627
I know it's not.
Still, the timelines match up a little too well. Coincidences inside coincidences, plans within plans, etc..

The storyline took place in a time bubble "20 years in the future and 15 years long" that could only be travelled through the slow way; living through it.
1990+20=2010
15/2=7
It's 2017. We are literally slap-bang in the middle of the time bubble right now.

>>91863700
Well, that was pointless.

>>91876861
*7.5

>>91876503
>>91876861
EWING YOU ABSOLUTE MADMAN

>>91876587
I'd direct you to the storytime in desuarchive but I think something fucked up that weekend and it all went kaput. Give it a try I guess. Friday Fantastic Fourytime.
I've been putting off Part 3 for months because of it. Plus I never get around to reading the issues myself.If I had incentive however I'm open to feedback...

>>91865990
I read them, but I kinda just roll my eyes. I just can't bring myself to like The Ultimates.

>>91876452
>Bullshit until addressed

See >>91863341
>>91863353

>At the dawn of everything that is or was
>They wanted the universe to evolve with them, to know change and growth and mortality

He's older than the act of creation, and probably spend several aeons as pure substance, without anything happening inside. He and oblivion are probably equally ageless, the difference being that one is, and the other is not.

>>91876503
>>91876861

Now that is really interesting

>>91876571
Of course he won't, he's the storyteller stand-in.
As hierarchy goes however you're basically putting First Firmament on his level by implying he predates the literal embodiment of nothingness. Which is, like I said, bullshit. Because Firmament's essentially an OC, not a metatextual representation of the system putting pen to paper.
UNLESS

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>>91876371
wait
waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait
did ewing just solve every jilted unnerfed literally-god oc ever
Adam K'ad-Mon, Nemesis, Scrier/The Other, Warlock's one true origin, Thanos' ever-vague "divorced from fate" status...

>>91863744
>>91863798
Jesus. I get that it's a pain to halt your story for tie-in's, but this just feels half-assed.

>>91863548
>Battle at Wundagore? These guys? Never heard of it. Must be something new...
>>91863846
What the fuck I've read that issue!
I don't remember this!

Am I just stupid or is he operating on that high a level?

>>91876371
>and his answer was that universe rebirth =/= mulitverse rebirth.

Multiverse 7 has been made and remade like 5 times before secret wars: Sise neg, Genis vell, the alien entity, the ultimate nullifier in the abraxas saga, Nemesis, heart of the universe, yada yada yada.

>>91877190
Honestly, I think I've got the appropiate analogy: Eternity is a painting, TOAA is the painter, Oblivion is the canvas, and the first firmament is the buckets of paint before being applied.

>>91877560
I think these guys just happen to be on wundagore but they weren featured. Dark celestial was though it was the main antag of that defenders run, it had no explination. The omega marks are the same ones the guy protecting the wishing machine had and it had a very complicated explanation better read comic than i could explain.

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>>91877598
more sensible than mine desu
Also I thought Sise Neg was a closed-time loop, not a reset. And I don't remember Abraxas or Nemesis ending in wipeout. Shit IIRC Nemesis took place on some other plane entirely.
What's "the alien entity"? Mikaboshi?

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>>91877797
This guy

>>91878023
I read that just a few weeks ago.
Again, Sise Neg clause. He went back in time and caused things to start, bit different from destroying everything and xeroxing it.

>>91878133
I wonder if they ever encountered each other, there's been more than two time traveling gods in marvel, after all.

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>>91863353
That middle panel is so uncannily relevant to my posting experiences on another board this past fortnight that I might just have to shitpost the fuck out of it. Memes (are) Magic.

>>91866451
besides Spider-Man it was literately who-tiers

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>>91866314
You just don't GET it, do you.

>>91867025
>91863353
No joke, issue 1 showed that the cosmic jailer indirectly caused the incursions and civil war II

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First look at next issue

If anyone is interested the guy doing the fraction dump happens to be doing the defenders part now that has the dark celetial and the omega marks

>>91821959
>>91877958

>>91865737
He said on twitter that Cap Britain probably wont be in Ultimates but there's a chance of him appearing on USAvengers

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>>91879256

>>91879295
thank fuck that's a load off my plate

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>>91879297

End

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>>91865737
>Stellaris
w-wew

>>91879297
>>91879337
I expected more from Aud Koch.

>>91879295
that's convenient

HYPERCRISIS

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>>91879256
>>91879297
>>91879337

you fux better make sure this thread survives the night I SWEAR TO TOAA

>>91879491
Damn I think you killed the thread anon

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>>91863678
>>91863700

>>91879371
yeah that's...okay i guess

>>91881027
It's pretty ugly, it reminds me of squirrel girl

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>>91863317
Bumping this thread

>>91863418
Love that corruption effect on the edges.

>>91863341
>PREVIOUSLY! THERE WAS MONITOR ONLY!

If someone told me that Al Ewing has read every single comic that Marvel has ever published, I would absolutely believe them.

>>91885462
Oh wow, the Complete Marvel Reading Order is up to 2010 now.

21091 comics.

>>91863765
Aunt May.

>>91876452
I don't think Oblivion can exist without creation as a counter. A negative that can't exist without a positive. Abstracts represent an idea and ideas can't exist without existence.

>>91885462
Not just read them, but regularly consults them.

Seriously, the man is an absolute genius.

>>91879371
Huh, she's the artist? Some of her B&W stuff is great.

>>91886256
Look at him, my fellow idealists, and laugh

>>91863628
Fucking T'challa is just worthless at this level

>>91874177

That must be the only time that series was declared 'recommended reading'.

>>91875493

Technically speaking, we still don't know the Celestials' origin.

>>91876861

You could retcon it into "The First Firmament corrupted the Black Celestial".

>>91876890

I don't know about that. It utilized nearly-useless character Anti-Man as a wonderful Chekhov's Gun, while answering the obvious "Will Galactus return to his former incarnation" with a "No, he won't - not on my watch",

>>91886256
Oblivion doesn't want to exist, he wants everything to end and go back to nothingness.

>>91876452
>F FUCKING F
fantastic four?
freedom fries?
fallacy fallacy?

>>91888835
fucking fucker

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>>91888835
Fantastic Four.
The well-spring of the Marvel Universe, that all else sprung out from.
The spirit of change and creativity and wonder that lead the way, even when they stopped moving forward.
THE COMIC THAT GOT CANCELLED AFTER 50 YEARS FOR BEING TOO OLD AND IRRELEVANT AND MEANINGLESS

Clearly, he's not literally the Fantastic Four. But symbolically? The ground zero for the fictional universe, once-champion of change now-paragon of stagnation, represented by the initials FF? Shit everyone's already said it; this itself is essentially a Fantastic Four book BUT WITH A NEW MODERNIZED CAST. AND THE VILLAIN IS THE OG FF.

That First Firmament is a throwaway Morrisonian concept is icing on the cake.We Hypercrisis now.

>>91889189
>that all else sprung out from.
I thought Cap, Namor, and John Hammond all predated the F4

>>91886256
Oblivion only gained self awareness when creation came into being, as a perverse mirror image. The nothingness he represents was still already there (insomuch as it can "be") by definition.
>>91863628
>>91888574
>AND TIMELY
IT
JUST
KEEPS
HAPPENING

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>>91889200
Timely Comics. I said well-spring of the Marvel Universe.
The distinction's not mere semantics. There wasn't much to distinguish Golden Age publishers besides hat characters they used, because they were all just turning out banal kiddie shit to make a buck. By 1961 Stan & Jack were sick of it, they made Fantastic Four to be the comic they would want to read, with layered characters and believable drama and realistic points of reference. The company was rebranded Marvel, it became their flagship title, dynamism became the norm across their whole publishing line. That the Timely Trinity came back at all was down to Stan's boss' fanboyism.

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>>91888585
>Technically speaking, we still don't know the Celestials' origin.
Explain yoself.
Firmament made the first Celestials. Who made Celestials who made Celestials etc. until we explicitly arrive at "multicolored rebels". All whilst it's still just him, no self-perpetuating multiverse cycle has begun yet.
First there weren't The Host, then there were. Between one thing existing and one thing not existing. Seems pretty cut & dry. After all these fuckin' years of ambiguity, too.

>>91863823
So is he planning to do a reunion of all the multiverse versions? I kind of want to see the 5th incarnation

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>>91889314
considering wizard cthulu was from the 5th iteration, I imagine its basically Azathoth

>>91889314
I'd imagine/hope that he'd leave that well alone as to maximize future freedom of creativity.
And if that bitch IS meant to be Nemesis he wouldn't legally be allowed to say. Best to keep things implicit & footloose.

>>91889346
>if that bitch IS meant to be Nemesis
que?

>>91889353
>>91863383 & its replies.

>>91889362
oh right. sorry, its been a long day

>>91873647
No wonder Marvel's having such bad luck in [current year].

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>>91888585
>You could retcon it into "The First Firmament corrupted the Black Celestial".
Your thinking's too exact senpai.
Multiverse. Perspective. Concepts. That the two are as similar as they already are might as well make them the same thing from different viewpoints.

>>91889346
Why he wouldn't? Btw i think that even if its the case, i think he'll say that she was just a part of the multiverse, much lire 616 Eternity is part of the multiverse Eternity

>>91889524
I thought there technically was no 616 eternity.
He can project a hologram of himself into 616, but that only persists as long as he wants it to and unless one happens to be around you have to go completely out of 616 to get in contact with eternity

I skipped U2 because of Chavez and U1 being downright bad, but... holy sheeeeeit, I've been missing some Top Tier Wizardry by Ewing.

>>91889551
Eternity may have avatars in every universe, but i dont remember seeing other version of It beside the 616 one

>>91889308

I don't see evidence that the First Firmament made the colored Celestials. There's nothing 'explicit' about it.

>>91863353

"There were others". Not "Others I made..."

Maybe we'll hear more later when everybody has to fight these 'Dark Celestials' / Aspirants.

>>91889551

...I always thought each universe was its own Eternity. Wasn't it stated by Ewing that the chained Eternity is the summa of all of them, the multiversal Eternity?

Of course, that contradicts Hickman's suggestion that the summa of all Eternities is the Living Tribunal, a concept I have hated since it was published.

>>91889614
>>91889634
the impression I got is that there is just the Eternity of the multiverse, and while he can place into any specific universe within himself an avatar, there is not one in every universe by default. he has to go out of his way to put one there

>>91889524
Why WOULD he? He's just made a sandbox for future content creators of incomprehensible scope & scale. What reason does he have to start labelling what each section should have? It's unnecessary and limiting, born merely of the autistic need to fill up empty space. "Osbourne & Sandman are cousins" all over again.
>i think he'll say that she was just a part of the multiverse, much lire 616 Eternity is part of the multiverse Eternity
Same thing desu. Ewing uses the terms interchangeably, universal Eternities are multiversal Eternity's mini-mes. Plus Infinity Gems are a constant across the multiverse, it makes a lot more sense that Nemesis was the prior multiverse entire.
Either way, I highly doubt he's going to "say" anything. She's a corporate co-creation like Amalgam characters. Marvel aren't legally allowed to reference her. Hell I ain't even gonna Tweet him about it because acknowledging the possibility might land him in shit.

>>91889942
Actually no, Sandman & Osbourne was super-insignificant. This is cosmic metaphysical lore. Better analogy.
Earth X sequels.
FUCK the Earth X sequels.

>>91889942
Explain. I have no idea about the legality of Nemesis.

>>91889634
Notice how it's prefaced with "soon they made servants of their own".
You're splitting hairs DESU. "FF made Celestials" isn't significantly different from "FF made G1 Celestials that made Gn+1 Celestials". Especially when he's literally everything.

>>91889966
>Earth X sequels.
>FUCK the Earth X sequels.

Amen.

"Let them look at this, our Human Torch" was a fucking perfect ending.

>>91890026

Again, I hope we get more info later. Did TFF create the Celestials, or did they form inside him spontaneously, like crystals in a solution? (To use one of Morrison's favorite metaphors).

What makes TFF compelling is its simplicity in combination with it being a person. It is greedy, arrogant and cruel. Did losing Eternity make this worse?

>>91890065
Earth X itself is quite overrated imo, but the sequels were just bad.

>>91889609
Chavez is a decent character when written by Ewing, you don't take that cunt Ribera's writing at face value.

>>91871317
It's clear that Bendis isn't going to do anything with him since he isn't writing any books where he could show up. Ewing on the other hand is writing this and Royals, so he could easily use Ulysses.

>>91866147
What's the source on Gardeners being Infinites, anyway?

>>91889609
Ultimates is best appreciated alongside New Avengers/USAvengers
Ewing likes to use his more straightforward cape stuff to set up and foreshadow things that'll be important in his cosmic stuff

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>>91889994
Starlin wrote one page in his 90s return that established the origin of the Infinity Gems. There was an omnipotent godbeing. It got sad and killed itself, resulting in reality. The Gems are remnants of its aimless will.
As the 90s push on the industry goes crazy. Debuts, events, crossovers, media deals, money money & more money. A literally-who comic company called Malibu shoots up, gets exposure, flounders, and IIRC makes a deal with Marvel to stay afloat. They do a big multi-title universe crossover, and to make it grand & epic enough they base it around Malibu's Rune the Vampire sauntering into 616 and stealing the Infinity Gems.
Stakes steadily rise and dontcha know, someone eventually remembers that one page Starlin wrote about the Gems' origin and decides it'd make a great plot twist. A 7th Gem is discovered: Ego. The godbeing's concentrated sense of self. When joined with the others she is reborn and starts fucking shit up. A young wide-eyed Warren Ellis hackneys together a 22-page resolution, everything goes back to normal, and the Gems don't get mentioned for a few years.
At some point legal shit happens. I don't know the details,my vague understanding goes something like this: Malibu goes under & its IP rights revert to someone other than Marvel. Marvel are never allowed to reference any of their content under threat of lawsuit, even though that content's now established Marvel Universe continuity. Anything introduced in the crossover is grey area that neither can use. When Starlin next writes for Marvel, he wants to use the Infinity Gems. He wants to address where they've been this whole time in case people ask, so writes Galactus recovering Rune's corpse into the script. Editorial shits itself at the 11th hour and demands that it be redrawn to look less like who it's supposed to be, so that they can claim plausible deniability. Notice how the figure we're all calling Nemesis ITT looks slightly different from Nemesis?

>>91890333
I'm no doctor but I'm pretty sure that skeleton has more ribs than it should

>>91890358
It's an alien

>>91890065
Again, splitting hairs. This time over the definition of "made". But fair's fair, I have no specific preference.

>>91890358
It looked even more distinct originally.
There mmmmmmmmmmmmmmay be pencils of the original online somewhere. I feel like it should have bigger forearms & wing protrusions.

>>91890409
if someone can dig it up I'd appreciate it

>>91890242

Gillen soured me on her in general, so even when reading Ultimates I was going "ugh" when she appeared. She's a hawt latina though, so, it kinda evens out...

>>91890263

My problem with Ultimates was that at some point it got dragged into CWII and became a mess. I also kept up with NA due to Ult!Reed, but U2 seems to be a major step-up. I'd start pulling it now, but it'll probably be cancelled come LEGACY, so I'll wait a couple of months and read the whole thing.

>>91873805
this

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>>91890333
Also, funny story
>reading issue whilst sitting next to brother
>he looks over during the first few pages and asks "so did he make the Infinity Stones?"
>Turn the page as I start to reply
>"nah, they'll NEVER bring up that character again. You see, Starlin wrote one pa-"

>>91890513
even though I have no reason to disbelieve you, and your story is no stretch of the imagination, I'm somehow filled with incredible doubt

>>91890259

That is purely me.

But the Infinites came from outside, and they were rearranging the structure of the universe to improve it.

So that fits.

(Gardeners and the rest were named in 'Mighty Avengers' by the Beyond Corporation.)

>>91890333

Geesh. Won't they make a push to reclaim that with the movie coming up?

>>91890358

You're wrong. Understandably wrong, but wrong. A human ribcage has 12 pairs of ribs.
In fact I'd say anatomy on that skeleton is unusually good for comics.

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Also I am going to post this now.
Because I am still pissed that we never got real answers.

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>>91890639

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>>91890647

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>>91863317
this entire series feels like the writer has this deep passion about the cosmic stuff but has to use a bunch of characters that are deep as a cardboard.

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>>91890659

>>91890639
I'm honestly surprised the OG Beyonder has been dead since 2006 and nobody has been interested in bringing him back.

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>>91890692

I should modify this one and add one new page.

To include all the amazing new information we got in 'New Avengers'.

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>>91890720

>>91890639
The High Evolutionary is gonna show up in Ultimates soon, wouldn't surprise me if Ewing brings up the Beyonders and tries to answer some of these questions.

>>91890715

There has been speculation that the Beyonder has reincarnated as the Sentry.

'Robert Reynolds' is an anagram of 'RR Lost Beyonder'.

>>91890736
what does RR stand for?

>>91890647
>>91890659
They also tried to retcon the Beyonder's power levels quite a bit, stating that those Celestials the Beyonder killed were just pretending to be dead and "playing along".

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>>91890756

>>91890720
The Beyonders were also brought up in Standoff when Selvig explained Kobik and the Cosmic Cube's origins.

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>>91890729

Yes please. I trust Ewing with this. Maybe he can clean up some of Hackman's mess.

After all...

>>91890805
>Glorian Gold and Good
that's a great fae name

>>91890790
And didn't Loki speculate that Those Who Sit Above in Shadow were Beyonders?

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>>91890747

Robert Reynolds. It's recursive. Read it as "RR = Lost Beyonder".

>>91890756

Yeah... and also a Cosmic Cube and an Inhuman mutant. But then Hickman said "He can be whatever he thinks he is". So it's both true. Still not much of an answer.

>>91890790

Thanks. I should include that. It does make me wonder how they learned about the Beyonders, because this is hardly general knowledge.

***
>>91890805

"The one who is one" is pretty obvious by now. But 'the others'? And he worries more about them. If nothing dies, does this mean the Beyonders might still exist?

The Beyonders are creatures of White Space and therefore, presumably, not part of the First Firmament.

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did Nemesis become the Neverqueen?

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>>91890837

If so, I would have to dismiss the notion. They-who-sit were not THAT powerful. Thor fucked their shit up when he had the power of the Runes.

>>91890840
>and an Inhuman mutant.
That was the Beyonder just fucking with them for no reason. The whole story was a waste of time.

>>91890840
>Thanks. I should include that. It does make me wonder how they learned about the Beyonders, because this is hardly general knowledge.
Maybe Hank Pym told him

>>91890837
They were probably beings from outside the multiverse like the Beyond Corporation, but not Beyonders.

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>>91890837
there's two relevent pages
the first, and most important I feel,
Loki suggests that in the same way the gods were created by the stories mortals told, those who shadow squat were created by the stories gods tell

and that was a scary enough notion they all fucked off because, as the last storyteller, that meant Loki was free to define them as he/she saw fit if that was true

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>>91890966
in the second, Loki makes an aside comment that 'maybe' they were the beyonders adopting a new guise to escape Doom's notice, but he rather snideley dismisses that as merely an explanation that would please the 'science' crowd. aka those who prefer to treat the events of comics as wholly literally and never just symbolic or allegorical or a case of metanarrative

>>91890849

Impossible. Nemesis can't exist without the other gems and they were shattered (except for the Time Gem).

Interesting. The Never Queen is like a third party to Eternity and Oblivion: what is and what is not - and what might be.

I need to read Captain Marvel. He had a lot of stuff about guys like this.

>>91890993
>Nemesis can't exist without the other gems and they were shattered
I'm playing devil's advocate here but
while nemesis can't exist without the other gems, could she transform/be transformed in the absence of the other gems into something that is not!nemesis but which used to be nemesis?

>>91890805
When asked about this issue, he said that the threat was even bigger than the beyonders. I guess the others are either the dark celestials or the dead eternities currently floating in oblivion

>>91890539
I tweaked it a little. Less "he looks over" more "I got him to read". We've been talking a lot lately about the same ideas the splash page brings up, I liked the coincidence.
Last bit's genuine though, if not ad verbatim.

I think this comic's sigil magic.

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>>91890869
>The whole story was a waste of time.

Who wrote that, anyway?

...Oh, of course. Who else.

>>91890892

So maybe they're the Normalizers, because they make the same thing happen over and over again?

>>91890966
>>91890990

Why can't all comics be written by people who know what the fuck they are doing?

>>91890840
Take in consideration that Owen currently contains almost the entirety of the power of the beyonders.

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>>91890993
Infinity is Oblivion's opposite. Eternity's is Death.
All space vs no space, endless time vs ended time.
Unless you go full Kirkbride and define it as space-time.

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>>91891014

The ego gem... I dunno. The complete gem being was described as desperately unhappy, and the Never Queen is a pure abstract.

>>91891056

The Dark Celestials, aka the Aspirants, are servants of The First Firmament. I don't think it's them.

>TFW TFF discovers he is neither the first cosmos nor unique

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>>91890715
>dead
*cough*

>>91890613
Why? They've no reason to insert Nemesis or an Ego Gem. If anything it'd 1) distract from the Thanos story and 2) look hokey as shit in a way only money-grubbing 90srific crossovers could.

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>>91891088

Yeah, and I am asking myself how that is even possible. He's just a bomb. That is all. How did Doom manage to pack all that raw power - not to mention all their ability to use it - into him?

It was a facile solution and I don't like it.

>>91891128

I don't know if I agree, and I never liked the whole 'Infinity' thing. What is it good for? Eternity is everything. Period. Time and space. Plus this series is showing emphatically that nothing about the Marvel multiverse is infinite, nor, indeed, eternal.

It also seems odd that Death would be Eternity's counterpart. Maybe Eternity wears multiple hats and one of them is Life. But in any version I have ever seen, Death's realm is still part of existence.

She's important. As the Molecule Man demonstrated during Secret Wars II, life is meaningless without Death.

In 'Sandman', Destruction argued that the Endless define their opposite by existing, so Death is also Life.
But Oblivion is nothing.