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Venom Retrospective - Part 1: Pre-Venom 2017-04-25 12:12:33 Post No. 91833603
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Venom Retrospective - Part 1: Pre-Venom 2017-04-25 12:12:33 Post No. 91833603
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At C2E2, the following was said:
>Chris D'Lando said Venom is very much about the symbiote, more than who is bonded with it.
>Mike Costa called the relationship between Venom and Eddie Brock "a twisted love story." Venom will be a "dysfunctional love story" about two beings deeply connected but bad for each other.
>He compared the reunion of Eddie Brock and Venom to Mary Jane and Peter Parker - but they're not getting back together, are they? No one on the panel addressed the comparison. That was the second mention of Peter and MJ in the panel.
Now that Brock and the symbiote are back together and Venom #150's previous highlight their history, thought it might be fun to take a look back at their relationship over the years and see if what Costa describes is actually true.
So lets start with some of the earliest appearances of the symbiote and how it and Brock met each other.
Who knows, maybe Mike Costa will find this thread and learn a thing or two about symbiotes.
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For reference, here are the preview pages from #150.
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>>91833611
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>>91833611
Black and white, but clearer.
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Our story begins back in the original Secret Wars, when a second Spider-Woman appears and sports a now iconic emblem on our her suit.
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>>91833657
Shortly after the Avengers and other heroes meet Julia Carpenter, Spider-Man fights Titania and has his own costume get torn up.
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>>91833674
Hulk informs Spidey that there is a machine that can manufacture new clothing.
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>>91833687
The whole reason that the symbiote takes on the shape it does, is because Spider-Man had been checking out Julia Carpenter.
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>>91833696
As Spider-Man explores the abilities of his new costume, we learn that the webbing it manufactures is stronger than the webbing Peter makes himself.
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>>91833718
When Peter comes back to Earth, he continues to learn about the costume's abilities. Here, we see he learns he can store items in it.
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>>91833738
Or that the costume can shape shift into clothing, as needed.
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>>91833754
Or hand him the items he needs on a mental command. Before Peter even realizes he needs it, even.
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>>91833776
It makes suiting up easy!
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>>91833786
Sometimes, even when Peter doesn't tell it to while he's sleeping.
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>>91833800
Leaving Peter feeling like he didn't get any sleep. So far, this is the only downside to having the suit.
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>>91833821
But its convenient to have when out with Black Cat.
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>>91833841
Peter goes several days without any issues at all. No heightened aggression like in other media.
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>>91833855
Just the alien fighting crime at night, with Peter still asleep.
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>>91833882
Aside from being tired occasionally in the morning, feeling like he doesn't get any sleep, Peter is none the wiser that his costume is alive.
His first sign, though, is after a fight with Puma where he gets his arm broken, he retreats back to his apartment and tries to command the costume to leave him. For the first time, it doesn't immediately listen to his mental commands.
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>>91833906
But before Peter has much time to think about it, Puma tracks him back to his apartment. Where the costume helps Peter conceal his identity.
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>>91833916
As Puma tears through his costume with a swipe during their fight, Peter learns that he doesn't have to worry about repairing his costume.
But Puma seems a little spooked. Does he detect that the suit is more than alien cloth?
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>>91833940
Puma is defeated, but Peter has to handle some of his own personal issues. This whole time he's been trying to decide between Mary Jane or Black Cat. His suit thinks its helping him out.
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>>91833961
Exhausted, Peter retires for the night.
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>>91833969
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>>91833977
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>>91833987
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>>91833992
Off to the Baxter Building!
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>>91834005
Reed throws a whole slew of tests at the costume.
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>>91834024
To which, as we all know, Spidey learns that he's wearing more than just a fancy costume.
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>>91834041
But contrary to popular belief, the symbiote hasn't actually done anything sinister to Spider-Man. In fact, the only reason he tries to take it off is because Reed tells him to.
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>>91834055
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>>91834067
The symbiote spends several weeks caged in the Baxter Building, where Reed can study it.
Naturally, it gets ticked. Because who wants to be locked up? What crime did it even commit?
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>>91833603
>He compared the reunion of Eddie Brock and Venom to Mary Jane and Peter Parker
Is there a single character in the Marvel universe that Costa actually understands?
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>>91834115
Eventually, the symbiote is able to free itself!
>>91834123
Maybe Kaine and Ultimate Jessica Drew?
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>>91834149
The alien makes its way through the city, seeking out its host.
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>>91834158
It even uses temporary hosts to help expedite its travels and I'd imagine to help it survive (though, it spent quite a while locked up with seemingly no issues).
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>>91834193
Eventually, it finds its way to Peter's home.
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>>91834218
Which leads us into Peter Parker's final encounter with the alien for a while: Web of Spider-Man #1, which I will present in its entirety.
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I know very little about Venom, so this thread is pretty nice. Thanks. I do have a question though, didn't Marvel reveal that the Venom symbiotes are some kind of galactic police force recently? is Venom now going to go back to what he was before?
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>>91834609
>>91834599
>I know very little about Venom, so this thread is pretty nice. Thanks.
Sure! Comment along and let me know what you think.
>didn't Marvel reveal that the Venom symbiotes are some kind of galactic police force recently?
That was a retcon that happened pretty recently. Won't touch that until we get into recent comics. As we go through the symbiote's history, you'll see how much writers have fucked with it.
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>>91834747
Even after Peter tried to kill it, the symbiote still cares about him.
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>>91834781
We shift our attention now to Eddie Brock.
Before he met the symbiote, his history is a little tricky to follow, as there are a lot of conflicting stories. So we'll start by showing the flashback Ann Weying (his ex-wife) has recounting their relationship in Amazing Spider-Man #375 and dissect that.
Here she talks about her early relationship with Eddie and Eddie's relationship with his father.
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>>91834819
Eddie's big break, though, was when the Sin Eater first showed up and killed detective Jean DeWolff (pic related is the police finding DeWolff's corpse, which kicks off the "Death of Jean DeWolff" story arc shown in the pages of Spectacular Spider-Man).
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>>91834842
The miniseries has a few issues of its own, but Zeb Wells' Venom: Dark Origin did a great job recounting Eddie's big break with the Sin Eater story.
While working for the Daily Globe, we see he here he gets a letter from the Sin Eater.
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>>91834910
Moving back to Spectacular Spider-Man, Spider-Man is able to capture Emil Gregg, who we learn is not the true SIn Eater.
Note: for anyone confused, Spider-Man is wearing a cloth version of his black suit that Black Cat made for him.
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>>91834957
Spider-Man is able to track down the -true- Sin Eater, Stanley Carter.
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>>91835027
We move back to Venom: Dark Origin, where we see that Carter's capture doesn't spell well for Eddie's career.
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>>91835072
We learn from Ann's flashback, that losing his job at the Daily Globe caused lots of problems in Eddie's personal life.
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>>91835089
It even drove him a little mad, it seems. Which forced a divorce between Eddie and Ann.
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>>91835111
We next see Eddie in the "First Kill" backup stories split in the Amazing, Spectacular and Web of Spider-Man annuals released in 1992.
This church may look familiar.
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>>91835301
Bump. This is good shit.
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Keep up the good work OP
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>>91835413
>>91835394
Thanks. How do you like this format? Skimming over the general timeline and highlighting/sharing full key stories.
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>>91833603
>He compared the reunion of Eddie Brock and Venom to Mary Jane and Peter Parker
Is this the same faggot who made the shitty Venom series with Lee Coldsteele? This guy cannot write for shit, especially if he thinks Pete and MJ are "a twisted love story" and "bad for each other". Like you could only miss the point further if you rounded it off.
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>>91835443
>>91835438
>Is this the same faggot who made the shitty Venom series with Lee Coldsteele?
Yup! One in the same!
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>>91834937
Emil Greg winds up being sin-eater for real in Axis:Carnage, if I rememebr right.
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>>91835517
>>91835519
I believe you are correct.
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>>91835559
And there we have it: the birth of Venom!
That's all for now. When we continue, we'll see the first encounter between Spider-Man and Venom along with their other early battles.
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>>91835596
I like the birth of Venom, it's like if Spidey went too far and killed the guy who rubbed out uncle ben.
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>>91835735
>killed the guy who rubbed out uncle ben.
>rubbed out
Lel
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>>91835735
Yeah, I think the similarities are very intentional. Remember that Venom was originally supposed to be a dark reflection of Spider-Man.
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>>91833708
>James Rhodes is Iron Man - - Now and forever!
Kek, sounds like something Slott would write to make fans mad.
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>>91833776
I wonder how Peter was going to say when he got asked how he got pictures of a fucking alien adventure with the Avengers, FF, the X-Men, etc.
Probably:
>Spidey gave them to me and we split the profit.
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>>91834055
Damnit, Reed. The symbiote being pissed and wanting revenge is all your fault.
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>>91836062
I don't think Peter even tries to sell them.
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>>91836065
Reed treats symbiotes like shit. Remember, he was The Last guy, Who was messing with antivenom suit
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>>91836148
Well, technically Morbius was.
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>>91834842
For the longest time I thought Eddie Brock was actually a part of the original Sin Eater storyline, and I was shocked to find him missing there. Turns out they just half-assedly retconned him into the story when he became Venom. This seemed so stupid for me, and it still does.
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>>91836311
>This seemed so stupid for me
Why do you say that?
Also, don't forget that Eddie wasn't even supposed to be Venom, originally. Some pregnant chick who loses her baby and has her husband get killed in a car accident was. Eddie was created at the last second when editorial told David Michelinie he couldn't do his original idea.
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>>91836264
This. Reed asks Eddie if its OK to use all the antibodies and he agrees. But while he is resting, Morbius comes in and activates the machine finishing off the deed.
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>>91836684
why would Mobius do that? He's not a prick like that, sounds like editorial mandate fuckery.
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>>91837131
It was a Slott story. What do you expect? Slott turns everyone into douchebags.
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>>91836264
>>91837131
>>91837604
Here is the scene.
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>>91833611
>>91833619
This looks nice honestly but my expectations are terribly low. The last issue was hands down the worse comic I've read in at least the last year.
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>>91835596
Thanks, OP! How far down the rabbit hole do you plan to go? This is good stuff.
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>>91838068
>in at least the last year.
You and I know it was much worse than that. Probably worst thing I've read in the last five or so years.
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>>91838188
Planning to go through Brock's whole history. Not going to storytime every issue. Just skim through it and highlight moments that specifically talk about his relationship with the symbiote. Would storytime complete issues that play a big impact on the character (i.e. doing all of ASM #300, Seperation Anxiety and Planet of the Symbiotes stuff, for example). Otherwise, just post the relevant pages that talk about the characters.
Was planning on skipping Gargan and Flash's time with the symbiote unless it specifically intersect with Brock.
Thoughts?
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>>91833603
I think the comparison between Eddie and Venom and Peter and MJ is actually quite good, they're a twisted reflection of one another, while Peter and MJ are literally perfect together we know that Venom kills Eddie slowly and they're toxic for each other. With Renew Your Vows bringing Pete and MJ back together being something that I'm overly excited about, Venom does the exact opposite with getting Eddie and the symbiote back together, it's something I didn't want to happen and am worried about, but I can't deny that I'm looking forward to this book.
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>>91838289
You should do that, but you should also do remender's Flash venom and Gargan's sinisster spiderman, because that was glorious,
Flash and the symbiote bond as well, and it was quite a long run together, most of which was top tier.
>>
Venom has always been my favorite super power
>Can shapeshift into any clothes
>Highly mobile
>Strength matches that of hulk
>Healing
>Projecticles and tentacles
Only downside is it makes you crazy
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>>91835042
>>91835052
>>91835072
I always thought this was pretty fucking stupid and unrealistic. Journalists make mistakes all the time without getting fired.
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>>91838343
>but you should also do remender's Flash venom and Gargan's sinisster spiderman
Was planning on including the Spider-Island stuff and Brock as Toxin.
Sinister Spider-Man was a blast. But it isn't really relevant to either Brock or the symbiote's development. Great book on its own, though.
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>>91838382
Oh and it can shapeshift into people (sort of)
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>>91838382
>Only downside is it makes you crazy
As we see in the panels above... it doesn't. At all. That was first shown in the 90s animated series.
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>>91838398
Its unrealistic, yes. But you can understand why it would make a guy who's already mentally unsound go a little nuts.
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>>91838406
I only suggested it because it's the best snapshot of MAcgargan as spideyvenom, and really the only thing worth reading outside of how the initial bonding went with hhim and how it made him feel awful.
Spiderisland, yeah, that was weird as shit.
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>>91838513
I never understood why Venom/Eddie didn't blame his bosses at the Daily Globe, or Emil Gregg or the real Sin-Eater. It seems arbitrary that he solely blames Spider-Man for being "evil" and ruining his life by stopping a murderer.
He would have been even scarier if he had gone on a killing spree of everyone that wronged him and Spider-Man was the last one on his list.
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>>91838571
My guess is it's because those all provided him with the means to survive. Spidey did't provide him with anything, and actually fucked him over without realizing it.
I imagine the symbiote influenced that to be worse. But it could've been handled better. No idea how you could though.
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>>91838550
>and really the only thing worth reading outside of how the initial bonding went with hhim and how it made him feel awful.
It didn't, though. He bonds with the symbiote in Millar's Marvel Knights book and loves it. Which is followed up in Civil War: Choosing Sides, when he is recruited for the Thunderbolts, where again, its shown that Gargan gets along with the symbiote really well.
He starts going nuts when the Thunderbolts capture a bunch of telepaths. The big reveal is that they got captured intentionally, specifically so they could make all the Thunderbolts (Gargan included) go crazy and kill each other. That's when Gargan starts hallucinating the symbiote yelling at him.
Gargan never really recovered from that until he was completely separated from the symbiote. But with Osborn's help, he mellowed out a lot while on the Dark Avengers team.
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>>91838571
That's the point. Brock isn't exactly sane. He twisted the facts and has this ideas that Spider-Man specifically and intentionally tried to destroy his Sin Eater story. He isn't using rational thought at all.
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>>91838289
>>91838343
I'm keen for an Eddie history lesson. The other hosts aren't necessary at all and besides Flash was already storytimed this year.
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>>91838926
>The other hosts aren't necessary at all
Well, there is a little overlap. But I'll only focus on the stuff that specifically related back to Brock (i.e. when Gargan encounters Brock in New Ways to Die or when Brock becomes Toxin and goes after Flash, etc).
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>>91839088
what about when Flash goes to kill anti-venom?
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How about storytiming "Hunger" from Spectacular Spider-Man by Jenkins and Ramos? It's one of the best Venom stories imo,
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>>91839136
If it intersects with Brock, it'll get included. Was just using those as examples.
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>>91839206
>It's one of the best Venom stories imo
So you don't actually like Venom, then? That story took a gargantuan shit on all symbiote lore before it and was when the Venom symbiote just became a generic monster that was an adrenaline parasite.
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>>91839236
Its an abysmal story, but it'll get included to show how writers completely fucked the symbiote and Brock.
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>>91839236
>taking a shit at 90s Venom books
>bad
...
>when the Venom symbiote just became a generic monster that was an adrenaline parasite.
I don't think the symbiote was any less generic before that.
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>>91839280
>>taking a shit at 90s Venom books
No. There are two "Hunger" Stories. The first was in a Venom mini and was great.
The second was in the Spectacular Spider-Man relaunch in the early 2000s, which is what >>91839206 is talking about. Its fucking awful. Its almost as bad as Costa's Venom.
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>>91834762
>>91834781tfw there's more peter/venom content in the official cartoons and comics than in fanworks :(
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>>91833969
This is pretty relatable, desu.
Aside from the supervillain thing.
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>>91839352
I thought it was a fresh and much-needed at the time take on an old villain, like most of Jenkins' run. Plus he's always great with character development.
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>>91833674
man spidy can really dish it out
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>>91834041
>>91834055
>"This costume is pretty cool."
>"Actually, it's alive."
>"FUCK THIS COSTUME"
Poor symbiote.
>>
Comics newbie here:
Is 150 a new arc? Will I be able to jump in there?
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>>91838680
>>91838733
I'm just saying, they should have come up with a motivation for Eddie Brock hating Spider-Man that can be attributed solely to Spider-Man more directly.
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>>91833708
>The REAL Iron-Man
wow i guess that kind of thing isn't nothing new is it
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>>91839505
That's basically what happens. He might not even had taken it off if Reed didn't tell him to, though. Reed indirectly created Venom.
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>>91839506
Pretty much, all you need to know is that Eddie Brock got the Symbiote back from some edgelord that looks like Sasuke Uchiha.
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>>91834762
Sybmiote is best girl.
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>>91839506
Mike Costa's Venom #1 is the beginning of the story. #150 is actually issue #7, they are just going back to legacy numbering to celebrate 150 issues of Venom comics.
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>>91839678
There are a few times that the symbiote was suggested to be female (specifically in MC2), but it's usually described as being asexual and genderless.
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>>91839466
Yeah, anon. Spidey isn't someone you want to fuck with.
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>>91834024
I never really thought about it but could the symbiote suit run out of webbing? there has to be a limit to how much of itself it can throw out
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>>91838289
This is really great. I've been planning to do a big write up on Eddie's character after #150 comes out since they're messing it up so bad, and this will be a good way to have pages to back up my points.
One thing I would've added is a page of when the symbiote is still locked up, and Reed and She Hulk are talking about it, not even thinking it could ever learn emotions like hate or love. Couldn't tell you what issue it was.
You'll be storytiming Sensational Spider-Man 38 and 39, right? After he auctions off the symbiote?
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>>91840198
>I never really thought about it but could the symbiote suit run out of webbing?
Yes, this is actually talked about in ASM #300, Venom's first full appearances. You'll see it when that issue gets storytimed.
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>>91835240
Spider-Man's such an asshole. What kind of douche stops serial murderers from hurting people?
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>>91833961
>The symbiote ships Peter and Felecia
I can't help but find this funny
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>>91840275
Another reason it's fucking stupid is that even if Spider-Man hadn't interfered, Brock's story would have still been proven false since the Sin-Eater would have kept killing people even after Emil Gregg was behind bars.
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>>91840219
>One thing I would've added is a page of when the symbiote is still locked up, and Reed and She Hulk are talking about it, not even thinking it could ever learn emotions like hate or love. Couldn't tell you what issue it was.
Oh shit. Forgot about that. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I'm probably going to skip a lot of the 90s minis entirely, since they are basically just "Watch Venom fight _____" and don't actually develop the character at all.
I'll just summarize the skipped ones in a paragraph or two and focus on the following:
>Lethal Protector
>The Madness
>Separation Anxiety
>Sinner Takes All
>Rune vs. Venom (since it picks up from Planet of the Symbiotes)
>Along Came A Spider (since it relates back to The Exile Returns story)
>The Hunger
>On Trial
>License to Kill
>The Finale
Think its worth including the others?
>You'll be storytiming Sensational Spider-Man 38 and 39, right?
Absolutely. That's a huge character moment for Eddie. Can't leave that out.
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>>91840379
>Think its worth including the others?
I admittedly haven't read a ton of the 90's mini series, so I can't really comment on that.
It's probably worth mentioning that the whole "symbiote makes you evil" thing was first introduced in the 90s cartoon though.
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>>91835735
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>>91840510
>It's probably worth mentioning that the whole "symbiote makes you evil" thing was first introduced in the 90s cartoon though.
Well, anyone who reads the pages above can see that it doesn't cause Peter to be any more aggressive or make him evil/crazy/whatever.
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>>91835413
If the suit had talked to spidy when he first got it you think it would have worked out?
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>>91840219
>>91840379
>One thing I would've added is a page of when the symbiote is still locked up, and Reed and She Hulk are talking about it, not even thinking it could ever learn emotions like hate or love. Couldn't tell you what issue it was.
Is pic related the page you're thinking of?
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>>91840379
>Oh shit. Forgot about that. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I believe that's FF 274?
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>>91842702
Close, and still a worthy page to include, but it's a row at the bottom of the page where Reed and She Hulk are walking away from the cage into the background, backs turned to us, and She Hulk specifically mentions how she doubts it could feel emotion like love or something.
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>>91842702
>>91842737
>>91842784
Found it. From ASM #259
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>>91843007
Nice. Just checked Fantastic Four #274, like >>91842737 suggested. Just a recap of the symbiote breaking free as shown here: >>91834149
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>>91843079
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>>91840554
Noir was a differnt thing entirely. He didn't go far enough, also his aunt may was shit.
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>>91839518
They do later, when the symbiote leaving him for spidey becomes a very real threat, it's later retconned in that Brock was also diagnosed with cancer when he wen to the church. So losing the suit meant death.
I'm mostly cool with him being irrational and unstable and the symbiote validating it, because the guy lost fucking everything. I'm surprised he didn't blame more people.
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>>91843110
You all might also be interested in Spider-Man/Fantastic Four #2, where the Symbiote escapes from its confinement in the Baxter Building and tries to bond with Franklin Richards.
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>>91843247
>Spider-Man/Fantastic Four #2
That is a continuity cluster fuck. It doesn't work well anywhere you put it and it completely changes the whole reason as to why the symbiote wants revenge (something about it absorbing all the negative emotions from the Fantastic Four). I'd prefer to forget about it entirely.
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>>91843402
Read the "Chronological Placement Consideration" section here: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/spider-manfantastic_four_2.shtml
Talks about why this issue should be ignored entirely.
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>>91843402
>something about it absorbing all the negative emotions from the Fantastic Four
Nah, its because Franklin tells the symbiote during their short time being bonded, that no one likes the alien and that no one wants to be its friend.
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>>91843565
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>>91843595
>>
A Marvel book getting past issue 100? In this era of comics? Truly unbelievable.
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>>91843628
nah negro. the just added all the million mini series issues they put out in the 90s together. They will probably put out Punisher 500 in a few years
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>>91843595
I'm stating to wonder if the symbiote hates the ff more than spiderman
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>>91843628
>being this casual
>>91843832
Just ignore the issue. It doesn't make any sense. See: >>91843439
We already know how the symbiote escapes the Baxter Building for example. But this issue basically says, "Nu-uh! That was wrong, the symbiote escaped off panel!" and it retconned the aliens entire reason for wanting revenge.
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>>91843595
Being the symbiote is suffering.
>tries to be Peter's friend
>only asks for a little adrenaline in return
>willingly chooses to be cucked by Black Cat since she makes Peter happy
>Peter tries to kill it
>while it's dying, it still tries to save Peter
>he still hates it
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>>91843887
Yeah, it really makes no sense, especially >>91843623
that page. They're talking about the symbiote's emotional state, while everyone had already assumed in the original comics that it had no emotions.
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>>91833603
>Chris D'Lando said Venom is very much about the symbiote, more than who is bonded with it.
Right off the bat. Why is it that the people working on Venom do not at all get the character.
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>>91843713
Venom was weird because the minis were published back to back to back nonstop. For all intents and purposes Venom had a 4 or 5 year ongoing where each arc was it's own series instead.
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>>91843987
>>willingly chooses to be cucked by Black Cat since she makes Peter happy
Is it really cucking if the symbiote is involved in the sexual act?
That's more like a threesome, isn't it?
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>>91843887
Anon, it's not casual. Marvel relaunched every other week with all new all different 2.0 AU etc etc titles. Number 1s happen more than number 100s. Silk got relaunched after, like, 1 issue.
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>>91844068
>the Symbiote is Peter's freaky ex-girlfriend who likes fucking his other girlfriends
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>>91840286
IT's another reason why Flash venom was so greaat. He and Felicia had a relationship and he just broke up with Betty Brant.
>>
i feel sorry for the symbiote. in retrospect do you think peter should have seperated from it really? like reed does say this whole shit about it grafting to his body because of how long they've been together but consider Eddie and Flash and others in contact with symbiotes for extended periods of time. none of them ever became a shell of the symbiote. Another thing is ultimately Peter is responsible for all of Venoms offspring who have killed sooo many people.
>>
bump
thanks op
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>>91844582
This
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>>91833640
What hapened to Jessica Drew dueing the 80's and 90's while Julia was Spider Woman?
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>>91843987
Peter is absolutely the dick in this relationship.
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>>91844467
>in retrospect do you think peter should have seperated from it really?
No. The symbiote just wanted to be his buddy. It wasn't doing anything malicious or sinister. See: >>91843987
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>>91833611
>>91833619
I know it's divisive but I fucking love Tradd Moore's art
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>>91850049
Trad Moore is great. But he likely cannot save Mike Costa's writing.
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>>91833611
Mirin' that Toxin, his redesign in the Agent Venom run really worked wonders to make him more than "literally Carnage but with black pants"
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At ease soldier. You'll always have a place in my heart.
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>>91850636
Not really a fan of the spikes, but the way the spider legs go to the pauldrons and tights is pretty sweet.
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>>91839665
It's worse. Lee Price literally has Zack Fair's haircut, down to the idiot hair.
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>>91833611
>Venom: smooth and oily texture with black color and blue/grey shades makes him look like a dark poison
>Carnage: red color and multiple veins across the body clearly sell the bood them, all the edgy and pointy parts representing tools of murder
>Toxin: tendrils dancing like he's covered in flames, like a burning fever caused by a toxin in the body
>Scream/Riot/Agony/Lasher/Phage/Hybrid/Scorn/Mania: ???
I wish Marvel had put more effort on the rest of the symbiotes' designs.
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