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Man of Steel might have been dumb, loud,...
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You are currently reading a thread in /co/ - Comics & Cartoons

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Man of Steel might have been dumb, loud, and generally mediocre, and everything MAN OF MURDER, but the Smallville fight scene with Faora and Kal is far and away the greatest fight scene of any cape movie.

Zack Snyder can do one thing right - fight choreography. 300 and Watchmen and Sucker Punch showcase this, even if they showcase Zack's other failings...like character development and "things what make sense". That Smallville scene is the high point of the movie for me. It is the one instance in all the movies I've ever seen where the shaky cam isn't a huge distraction and instead adds to the intensity of a two vs one brawl between invincible super humans with normal-ass humans trying to help. The way Zack directs the camera and your vision so you effortlessly take in everything about the fight despite the shaky cam. Everything about Faora. Their punches feel heavy and the sound design is just great. There is no other cape fight scene that comes close to the "realistic" spectacle of this fight.

You literally can't disagree with me.
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Zach Snyder is one of my favorite directors visually. He needs to be reigned in otherwise.
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>>79816123

huge waste of an antje traue
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>Batfleck would kick MCU cap's ass
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>>79816123
You'll probably get a few assholes in here that will say different, but it's objectively right. MoS has the most visually pleasing cgi fights, and it looks like BvS will have the most visually pleasing practical fights with Batman.
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>>79816123
I didn't like how after Smallville, we get less than 5 minutes to catch our breath before we're thrown into the World Engine business. And then, maybe 30 seconds before the Zod fight. If they had cut down on Krypton, there would have been more time to space out that 3rd act.

>>79816346
All because Gal Gadot got pregnant.
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I did like the Superman 2 vibe with the Non knockoff
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>>79816824
>12yo posting on 4chins
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>>79816982
Deadpool would kill superman.
All he needs is maximum effort.
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I agree actually. great visual director who knows how to compose shots to make it feel like a movie, and an epic one at that. He just needs to not be involved with writing or something. JUST stick with visuals.

Also yes his action is great too.
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>>79816123
>"realistic" spectacle
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>>79816123
Would've been fantastic if they didn't keep distracting the audience with ads for IHOP, Sears, and 7-11.
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>>79818953
>there are actually plebs who prefer fake brands in fiction, like wacdonalds and depsi, to real ones
>this is the real reason this shit continues to appear
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>>79816123
>fight choreography
sped up weightless CGI and obvious prequel trilogy-tier green screen acting from the kryptonians, how amazing

everytime i watch those man of steel fights i'm amazing at how awful they look
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>>79819374
*amazed
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>>79816123
Spectacular action but it seems too bombastic for Superman IMO

Imagine that type of action in a live action DBZ movie though
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>>79818953

Yeah Superman should have just smashed Zod with a Malboro Truck and then thrown him into a massive neon Coca Cola sign instead
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>>79816123
Im not a fan of that style of fights, and I'm pretty it's not called "choreography" when it's entirely CGI.
But yes it was well done
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>>79819087
The product placement was blatant to the point of parody.
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>>79819405
>>79819405
>Spectacular action but it seems too bombastic for Superman IMO

I have to disagree. Superman fights are usually frustratingly slow and dull since we all know what he's really capable of.
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I wasn't impressed, but grabbing,and flinging, smashing does make sense, it's not like they would need martial arts. I'm not exactly sure what I'd expect from the fighting of such beings, always felt good and impacting in the cartoons.
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>>79819475
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>>79819530
Sins of the past don't justify sins of the present.
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>>79819530
are you really defending this shit? did too many man of murder friends make you overly defensive?

i liked man of steel but the product placement was abhorrent. it's fine to admit a movie has a flaw. you can still like a flawed movie.
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>>79819678

>Are you really defending this shit

No, but I've only heard product placement be a problem in MoS when I've seen is glaringly obvious in a lot of movies. Some that are hugely popular
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>>79819678

Superman 2 had a Malboro placement 20 times. It was worse than MoS
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>>79819848
Superman is espoused to be a true hero but he's teaching kids to smoke up? Fuck DC.
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>>79816774
Those are some thick bumper plates.
Anyone know what he's lifting?
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>>79816123
>the greatest fight scene
https://youtu.be/qXPOl6EjbWg
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>>79816123
>Watchmen

I am literally disagreeing with you.
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>>79816123
Yes I can because it was pointless and Faora was a stupid character.
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>not this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0cFOz1AxuQ

I can't fucking come to this board anymore. You people are shit.
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>>79820482
>I can't fucking come to this board anymore. You people are shit.
Goodbye. See you tomorrow.
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>>79820361
I like they used CGI for the shield so they could have a fist fight, it would have sucked and been so awkward if they used a real shield. This allows for maximum intensity in the choreography; cool trick
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Not even half as good as the TWS fights.
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Yeah i don't care what anyone says, MOS did the fights perfectly

It felt exactly like how kryptonian power should be. The weight of strikes, the speed, the damage they did (and didn't do to other kryptonians)

Couldn't have been done better
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>>79820356
Assuming the thickest plates are 45s and not 50s, It looks like 395 total.
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>>79819518
I actually felt like they conveyed pretty well that Faora was a more proficient fighter than Clark, but not quite as physically strong, whereas the other henchman (forget the name) was physically stronger but not as proficient a fighter.
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>>79816123
COMPLETELY agree 100%. I regularly watch that scene. It's so freaking cool.

>>79816346
Actually agree. As much as I love Faora, it's really a shame that she's not playing WW or that we'll never see Faora again. She was legit more memorable and more threatening than most MCU villains.
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>Smallville fight scene with Faora and Kal is far and away the greatest fight scene of any cape movie.

KEK, there is a TV show who does 100% better fighting scenes every week
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>>79816123

Faora was literally perfect. Hopefully they'll bring her back at some point.
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>>79822854
>the soldier that comes from literally nowhere behind her at five seconds in
Still a great scene but man. That continuity.
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>>79816123
>>79822433
>>79822706
>>79822854
Just fyi, THIS is how they should make a Superman video game. Just watch the hell out of this scene, really analyze it, then use this as an inspiration for how to make a Superman game work. I think you can really watch this shit and then tell how a Superman game could work.
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>>79820361
This is the best practical effects driven fight scene in a superhero film so far
>>79816123
This is the best CG'd fight scene thus far

What's the worst?

I'd say this one, to be honest; for a clash between two gods it just comes off as a shit wrestling match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqZQWuuaF8
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As generic as Hans Zimmer usually is, the soundtrack was great too. Especially Superman's leitmotif. It was far and away from the Richard Donner film's version but still felt majestic, mystical and full of hope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joQWMecJmDk
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>>79820387
Watchmen's fights were well done but honestly Snyder was misplaced as a director. Watchmen was the one superhero film that didn't need his bombastic, over the top style. Still an enjoyable film, but would have worked better with a director who places a greater emphasis on realistic naturalism.
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>>79822991
>>79816123

>Not Hulk vs Iron Man as best fight scene.
Nah man, nah.
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>>79822991
You're saying that was a CGI fight scene? It's all real
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>>79820361
>speedup fight
>good
Kill yourself.
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>>79823040
When did that happen?
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>>79823133
I think he's referring to the AoU fight, which would make sense.

It was a pretty good fight...
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>>79822894
The problem with a Superman game is how you make Superman feel powerful and invincible while still giving the player a challenge.
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>>79823284
Other games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta do it well.

Shit, just have Platinum Games do it. Honestly I feel like you people overcomplicate things way too much, regarding a hypothetical Superman game. I think at its core, it just needs to be a really good action game.
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>>79822812
>KEK, there is a TV show who does 100% better fighting scenes every week

oh really? post an example pls
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Superman was always an OP character, the comics could never do his abilities justice but there are fucking sonic booms on his punches in MoS.

>TL;DR MoS made me like Superman
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Faora is the only good thing about the movie period.
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Snyder was so proud of that fight scene that he decided to shove another one down our throats before the movie was over.
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>>79823304
I think the main problem is how would you translate Superman's capabilities to a video game without making your players feel arbitrarily restricted.

You're also forgetting that Dante and Bayonetta are not invincible, just massively overpowered compared to the mook enemies. A better comparison to DMC or Bayonetta would be a Flash game. A non-flight capable Wonder Woman game would also work well in this format.
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>>79816123
Man of Steel is like the second best Superman film out there.
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The real struggle is how you do a flash game. I can imagine it as a timer-puzzle-action game but not much else.
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The fights in MoS were cool looking but not particularly mind blowing. They lacked tension but that's arguably more a fault of them sticking their guns with the whole "Kryptonians are so invincible they can't even hurt each other" thing.

(Which still doesn't make sense. How can you be strong enough to break someone's neck, but not bruise them?)

Either way, Matrix Revolutions had a final fight of a similar scale to a Superman fight like what? 10 years prior? This just had more contemporary CGI behind it. How long until it ages like milk?
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Terrible CGI, too short, nothing really outstanding
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>>79824103
>How long until it ages like milk?

It looked underwhelming in 2013. It looks straight up bad already.
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>>79820361
>those terrible quick cuts and zooms
>that sped up fight

Thats awful and vomit inducing. Its like being on a roller coaster.
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>>79823917
>second

I'm hard pressed to name a movie that's aged as poorly as any of the old Superman ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0

>>79823893
>invincible
Holy shit. Why do casuals still think this after Man of Steel, or after Doomsday was revealed for BvS? You'd think they'd see the later character, at least, and google that time Superman was beaten to death.

>>79823918
Open World Sonic the Hedgehog
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>>79824211
Good movies don't age, anon. The special effects maybe, but if a movie was good once it will always be good

Swear, you never hear anyone say that movies like Chaplin's or, i dunno, Metropolis aged poorly. This arguments always comes in when fanboys try make their more recent movies look better than the old, see for example Raimi's Spiderman that from one day to the other became "too cringey and old-timey"
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>>79823893

It's a matter of scale. Dante and Bayonetta are Superman-tier invincible, they just typically fight things on their level that can hurt them. Even Devil May Cry mooks are eldritch horrors wielding darkness or hellfire infused blades as big as people. DMC/Bayonetta bosses are eldritch horrors and great demons.

Superman game vs Thugs might get stupid. Superman vs Darkseid's forces invading Earth with fighting a few of his foes on the side and pushing into Apokalyps makes things more believable and engaging.
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>>79824413
>Good movies don't age, anon
You're right; they don't. You can watch something like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, and have no idea that it was made in the 60s; I didn't when I first watched it. Or watch films and television shows like Casablanca, the Wizard of Oz, Seven Samurai, Laurence of Arabia, the Twilight Zone serials, It's a Wonderful Life, or the Godfather, I and II, and enjoy them to the same extent as you would have when they were released.

There's nothing to justify how cringey the older Superman movies were (world spin and S symbol throwing and all) or everything portrayed in that clip, outside of the fact that it was never really that great of a movie in the first place. This movie came out at the same time as Raiders of the Lost Arc, yet if you compare the climax of Superman II and Man of Steel, the former looks like a parody.
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>>79825136
But if those movies were never good how come they were praised at the time? Did the nostalgia factor kick in a minute after the first screening or something?
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>>79825256
>how come they were praised at the time

Because Superman was the only superhero movie at the time. The Godfather was praised, legitimately, because it was well written, well acted, and had a God tier soundtrack. This is why the old Superman movies aged like milk, while something like The Godfather aged like fine wine.
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>>79816123

>the Smallville fight scene with Faora and Kal is far and away the greatest fight scene of any cape movie.

I cannot disagree with this.
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>>79825338
So what's your argument, were Donnner's Supermans cringey and bad movies period or are they just not among the best cape movies because the genre progressed since then? Because I don't see how else the "it was the first superhero movie" argument would work, the average movie-goer wasn't a comic reader highly anticipating his hobby to be recognized by Hollywood
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>>79825745
>So what's your argument, were Donnner's Supermans cringey and bad movies period

By the standards of its still famous contemporaries, and by that of modern superhero films such as Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins, Iron Man, or Man of Steel? Yes. But at the time novelty factor was still present, so it was more than enough simply to make an audience "believe a man can fly." Character development and tension was optional. You don't need to read comics for the wonder and escapism superhero stories provide to appeal to you, and even these movies weren't well written, they still had that when nothing that offered it had the later.
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>>79816123
>Man of Steel might have been dumb, loud, and generally mediocre
Except it's none of those things. Well loud perhaps. There were plenty of explosions. But that's typical of an action movie.
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>>79825971
Now you're saying there was no character development or tension? Not even the conflict Clark felt during 2 because of the duality of his life? If there was nothing really likable about the movies, what made those audiences believe a man can fly, just the fact that he had a suit?
Dude, it sounds like you're throwing words around to make your "old Superman is boring" argument feel more sophisticated than it is
I mean, it's ok not to like those movies, i didn't give them a real chance myself until 2-3 years ago, but to say that people only liked it because "they didn't know any better!" is just silly
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>>79826075
>If there was nothing really likable about the movies, what made those audiences believe a man can fly

Because he did so. After the flashback ended his character became perfect, both morally and physically, free of conflict, and paper thin.

>tension
Superman the Movie is why we get annoying questions from casuals in the nature of, "Why doesn't Superman just spin the Earth around?" It birthed the Superman is overpowered meme.
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>>79820361
>the knife slice through the van
Pure fucking sex
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>some shit Marvel movie is released
>company wars threads increase
The funniest part is that shills think this works at all.
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>>79826562
Also, as worried as I've previously been about Eisenberg's portrayal of Luthor, the one thing I've been confident about is that he'll still be a better villain, and a better Luthor, than Hackman's. It'd be difficult for the character to be portrayed any worse; Silver Age Superman, who fought an incarnation of Lex who could build time machines from toothpicks, put against a real estate mogul more bumbling and incompetent than his depowered modern incarnation. I don't understand why this was thought to be a good idea.
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>>79816185
>Zach Snyder is one of my favorite directors visually.

Its not so hard when the movies he makes are based off of comics which basically are premade cutscene storyboards.
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>>79826562
>Because he did so. After the flashback ended his character became perfect, both morally and physically, free of conflict, and paper thin.

And Man of Steel Clark gets pushed around by ghost dads and stupid dads and is passive all around, not that much of a progression. But let's ignore that, i don't want to start another MoS argument.
You're not much wrong, but that was the first movie concentrating on his fairly simple origin story, what about 2 and the conflict i just mentioned?

>Superman the Movie is why we get annoying questions from casuals in the nature of, "Why doesn't Superman just spin the Earth around?"
Except i never heard that question, casuals either don't remember or don't like Donner's Supes, generally

>It birthed the Superman is overpowered meme.
You sure it was the movie?
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It's only 1 of like 8 DVDs I own solely to watch from smallville until kal and zod enter thevt train station

It's my favorite. Hands down.
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>>79816123
>MAN OF MURDER

This forced ass meme needs to die.
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>>79826021
Its horrible
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