>Reluctance to give Mabel development resulting in lack of adversity and criticism she faces >Poor plotting overall >Bill is shit villain >Only two good characters and everyone else being a stereotype >Abandoning what was good about the show after Ford showed up
it was an actual good kids' show that crazy fans managed to convince themselves was a revolutionary masterpiece, then when their ridiculously high expectations weren't fulfilled and some of the weaker aspects of the show became more obvious (because they were forced to accept that said aspects were not, in fact, leading up to something spectacular and that some things about it just weren't that great), some of those same fans went in the extreme other direction and convinced themselves that it was all total shit.
>>79659491 >>79659428 They thought they had a quality mystery/action story behind it. This despite the fact that three of the five main characters were comic relief and the other one was the one with the less screen time.
Nothing. The show never really decayed in quality until the last two or three episodes, it was just never amazing.
People like to go on about the "deep lore" (read: one-off "we have continuty!" jokes), "subversiveness" (read: "isn't this cliché we just used such a cliché?" jokes) and "mystery aspect" (the big twist of the series was literally "it was my twin brother") but none of that was ever there. It was just a funny, entertaining, monster-of-the-week show. Fans thought it was something more, well, Weirdmageddon is your something more. "Happy now, bitch?"
>>79659719 >the big twist of the series was literally "it was my twin brother" That was the good twist, to be honest. But I agree.
Still, it really somehow derailed after ATOTS and not in a way that can be explained by approaching finale. Non-stop stream of episodes ranging from "just bad" to "decent, but not really Gravity Falls" (Like the election one)
>>79660046 I was complaining here of one particular thing, that is they literally made an episode effectively inside Mabel's head, and they wasted it on some stupid shit. This seems crappy even by cartoon standards.
>>79660761 I'm glad someone else shares this opinion, I actually thought about this the other day and realized just how shit it was. The plot of the episode was forgettable as hell, and the "jokes" were just trying to poke fun at the fanbase for guessing the Ford twist fucking years in advance and other issues with the series in general. DD&D was easily one of the weakest episodes in the series, if only because it tried to make fun of it's issues, instead of actually addressing them in a way that could have made the last few episodes better.
No, the expectations weren't that high. From day one Alex knew what he was doing as far as planting clues and doing callbacks and having a clear idea of what the beginning, middle, and end would be.
It's just that, he decided he was done with the show sooner than expected, so the middle became rushed to try and explain the end.
Which is why Ford got introduced and just stood around explaining nothing while they got plots they wanted to do out of the way (such as Roadside Attraction, which was more of an excuse to do a tourist trap episode.) I'm convinced Bill wasn't supposed to be the big bad, or at least not such a generic one that he ended up being.
Really could have benefited from season 3, flesh out the relationship between Ford and Stan, cause more of a rift between Dipper and Mabel, explore what exactly Bill is and why he wants to escape to our world, etc.
But Alex is tired of fighting Disney tooth and nail about everything, especially in the face of Roiland's freedom with Rick & Morty, so he's ready to move on, and that's why everything ended up the way it did.
>>79661044 He did though, I remember the character exploded across the Internet after Dreamscapers which was a creepy Silent Hill episode. I mean he is literally a talking Illuminati symbol in a top hat and tie, people expected really weird shit. Then you got Sock Opera and the grostesque weird Bipper animation and Bill making a twelve year old stab himself in the arm with forks and people went even more nuts, and finally the end of Dipper and Mabel vs. the Future with all the screaming and helicopters and silent end credits, people were so hype.
Then he just turns into a 1980s cartoon villain especially in the last episode, I mean "Fearamid" and "Henchmaniacs" even sound like toy playsets. As for what people expected, something weirder I guess, or the same thing but better executed and more surreal. They wasted a villain who was incredibly well received by a lot of the audience.
The same thing happened with Mabel, but that was even worse because she's a main character. I remember /co/ loved her at first. Look at her now.
And while they at least had the good sense not to run Pacifica into the ground they completely dropped her from the show the instant she became interesting. She just dissapeared.
>>79659892 Because it comes out of nowhere. Mabel just wanted summer to last forever, so it would've made sense for Bill to give her exactly that, a replica of Gravity Falls, but an idealized, perfect version so that she can enjoy herself; a safe space, if you will. It would've also been a much easier way to coninvce people that she was hypnitized, since the reality of the situation would've been much less blatant.
>>79661370 It's the ending of Roadside Attraction that triggers me. Like what, is Dipper not allowed to flex his wings? I mean, he was himself and all those girls liked him, and he was not the boyfriend of any of them, yet he was somehow being evil. I don't get it.
>>79658870 Not What He Seems was literally the most hype thing, and it really did pay off, so much so that people had unrealistic expectations for the rest of the season. But it's not really the fault of the fans entirely, because most of S2B has actually been pretty uninteresting. I can barely give a fuck about Ford even though I really want to, and most of the episodes are about dumb shit that doesn't really even fit with the tone of the show, it just feels like something else entirely. Plus Soos and Wendy were pretty much shafted for no reason and Bill is a shit villain now. Maybe the finale will fix all this, but probably not.
>>79661875 >But Alex is tired of fighting Disney tooth and nail about everything, especially in the face of Roiland's freedom with Rick & Morty, so he's ready to move on, and that's why everything ended up the way it did. This is, IMO, the only thing wrong with Gravity Falls.
It was said that Alex could do anything on GF because he has one of the most popular shows, but neither of those 2 things is true. Alex just had a very popular show that he was trying to keep afloat, despite Disney trying to keep him in line.
But then again, what did they expect? The show is pretty much SCP Foundation for kids. Good shows are already hard to pull off with executive meddling on top, but a good horror-mystery-driven show with a difficult concept to pull off simply didn't belong on a prude channel like Disney.
Now let's see what happens with Alex on Fox. My guess is that the executive meddling will go to the other extreme and Alex will still be jaded about not being on Adult Swim with his buddy Justin.
>>79668746 Wendy, Soos, and Stan are meant to act as a main character trio, but secondary to the twins. Ford is the one who would've upset this balance, but the show needed a full season to explore Ford's interactions with the rest of the cast.
>>79668710 The thing about that episode was that Dipper should've known better than to follow Stan's advice about women. As for the ending with him being rejected 4 times, well, he had it coming. He was just stringing girls along selfishly.
In the case of Candy, he didn't do anything wrong per se, but his apology to her was something Dipper genuinely did, thus maintaining their friendship (besides, Dipper wasn't interested in Candy anyway, so the result was more satisfactory than the awkward 'just friends?' that was the alternative).
>>79668746 He was certainly that in season 1 but he actually grew out if that mold season 2 and became a good character that was actually useful, like protecting the kids or fixing the computer. Wendy was stagnant since day one however. They never had any intention on exploring her character beyond being a teenage prop.
And that's the problem. It implies that in the end, she doesn't give a shit about her brother and is willing to replace him like you would a goldfish at the drop of a hat. The entire episode was basically saying that she doesn't give two shits about anyone but herself, and while granted it's nothing new for Mabel, she never grows from it. Dippy is the walking personification of everything wrong with Mabel.
>>79670890 This. I wanted to hear stories and tales about cryptids, mystical creautures, and urban legends. I got a group of silly, lazy children who somehow stumbled upon the truth and ended up fucking up the world.
>>79671073 I assumed an non-climatic ending. Dipper and Mabel would leave on a bus. Waving goodbye to Gruncle Stan.
They could return every summer until they go off the college (if they really wanted to), but high school is good.
One day, perhaps after college, they will reminisce and hope they aren't crazy, which will make them visit Gravity Falls again. They could film the return years later, so children now feel more nostalgic
>>79670990 Honestly, for Mabel being a scared, hyper 13 year old I understand why she didn't want to leave her bubble. I understand why she made everything out of rainbows. I understand why she recreated her brother. She was being selfish, but not a cunt. More like a ignorant child. .
>>79671194 No, she didn't, seeing as she kept Dippyfresh around when Dipper and company came through >Ugghh. I figured you might say something like that, Dipper. That's why I prepared a backup Dipper with a more supportive attitude.
>>79671194 And she thought nothing of it. She wasn't worried about him, she never wondered where he was, she didn't even give it a second thought because why would you when you can wish up a cooler version of him! Who needs that lame-o anyway, amirite?
I find it hilarious in hindsight though. In most interviews and Q&A's, Alex loved to state how the number one rule was how much Dipper and Mabel care for each other, when in reality the relationship is so one-sided it's ridiculous. It says a lot about him if he considers what Mabel does throughout the series as caring family.
First, the jokes earlier in season one were really perfect. They were funny. But season 2 isn't funny. Lots of the jokes are the characters staring off into the distance, saying something, than an immediate cut, or someone ignoring it. I think this is my biggest gripe, it's not funny.
They wrote Bill much differently than his initial appearance. He had more charm, and was scarier. In season 2, he's... different, I dunno.
Ford wasn't developed. At all. He walked into the basement, and that was it.
And Mabel. Christ, she was actually funny in season 1. Season 2, an unapologetic asshole who, for some reason, is nearly always shown as the beacon of light.
>>79670487 >He was just stringing girls along selfishly.
Flirting and exchanging numbers/e-mails is not stringing along selfishly. It's entirely harmless. You're not obligated to date anyone just because you exchange digits.
Dipper gets legitimate advice from Stan and gets some self-confidence. This somehow makes him awful and requires him to regress, grovelling to Candy to redeem himself for the crime of doing literally nothing wrong.
>>79671394 >She was being selfish, but not a cunt. More like a ignorant child. You make the best case for the "SHE'S TWELVE/THIRTEEN GUYS!" crowd I have ever seen. I wish the show would have at the very least acknowledged she was being selfish and make her choose to leave the bubble without first getting something she wanted (Dipper turning down the apprenticeship), because at this point it is just reinforcing bad behavior.
>>79658870 It really could have benefited from have at least one more full season. It took awhile to get its groove in season 1 but it found it, then the first half of seasok 2 was excellent, then the second half of season 2 was a rushed mess. I don't think it needed more than 3 seasons, but it really could have at least used one more to progress the plot more naturally.
>>79671528 Unfortunately, people can be self-absorbed in personality, and stilll care about others and show it by whatever weird means they express their feelings. Doesn't make 'em any more self-absorbed, or mean they care less. The things Dipper did to show he cares were big deals for him, likewise for Mabel. I always thought that was the point of them being different but complimentary, and part of what contrasted them with the Stans.
>>79681608 I don't disagree that Dipper should turn down apprenticeship, but this issue revolved around Mabel entirely. It's never about what Dipper wants and needs, even if Mabel's happened to be right.
I wanted SCP for kids then it become increasingly clear I wasn't going to get SCP for kids and instead of darker and deeper it decided to go softer and lighter as it went on.
Except now they kinda want to go back to the darker and deeper but no one will fucking take them seriously because Bill is a joke, half of the recent episodes have been lol-Mabel-is-so-quirky and no one has developed in any way you'd expect a pair of 12 year olds who almost die on a weekly basis to do.
>>79682514 >gravity falls uses the portal twice >animates objects/person going through it >rick and morty has them going through portals all the damn >the animation is just literally them stepping through with a shitty wobble effect, no ripples
>>79671073 As soon as the portal was introduced, and the symbols on it were connected to Bill, I knew that Bill wanted to get through. I wasn't sure if he would ever manage to FULLY get through, but I knew that was his endgame.
I pictured something a bit more like a Billpocalypse. Bill didn't need henchmen. If he had managed to get to Blendin, he had all the muscle he needed by just getting different instances of himself in time. He could wheel and deal until the entire town was under his control.
I expected the government agencies to play a much bigger role, after the shadowy figure in Irrational History. That plot thread probably pisses me off the most. The agents peppered throughout the show didn't lead to much.
I figured, whatever happened, there'd be no way containing it. Bill would've lost, but Stan would probably be dead. The government would cover it up, and Dipper and Mabel would've been sent home.
I also expected the civil war and a dark Dipper storyline, but life is full of little disappointments.
>>79671394 >Honestly, for Mabel being a scared, hyper 13 year old I understand why she didn't want to leave her bubble. I understand why she made everything out of rainbows. I understand why she recreated her brother. She was being selfish, but not a cunt. More like a ignorant child. The problem is not really Mabel, she's believable and ultimately symathatic kid, it's that very rarely she doesn't get what she wants. And when it happens it's never really lead to her character growth.
She need to get smacked with reality hard, but instead she spent entire summer getting what she wants.
The more I think about this show, the more I think there might be something wrong with Hirsch.
Look at how he values family above all else. Dipper only goes back to the party to save Mabel, not to save anyone else innocent who might be there. Dipper is a vengeful, spiteful, vindicitive little fuck, but he's never portrayed as being in the wrong because he cares about his family. It's a very clan-based mentality.
And that's to say nothing of his rabid classcism. I'm about as liberal as a granola bar at woodstock, but how militant to you have to be to hate people based purely on how much money they have?
>>79684974 He's not portrayed as wrong because he's victimized and wronged by those against whom he's vindicative. That said, he's often punished for his antics.
What's weird in this clan structure, is that Mabel is clearly his superior in this setup. She's the one calling the shots and not Dipper is the one with obligations. They do not help each other in need mutually, Mabel is free to enter and leave action as she pleases while Dipper is always supposed to be on duty.
>>79658870 They screwed the pooch by wasting an entire episode of a four part series finale. So now we're left with 45 minutes of show time to wrap up all the character arcs, plot points, and unanswered questio ns.
>mfw when I still really like Gravity Falls >mfw when I still really like Mabel >mfw I like Ford and the impact he's had on the show >mfw 2b, the Weirdmageddon in particular isn't great, but the show has already given us more than enough good stuff to make up for it
>>79686332 Although I see the mascot quality I disagree he wasn't good before the last episode or so.
A big theme in the show is trust. Bill works as a villain in this context because he sows distrust, dissention, and paranoia.
Bill's strengths as a villain lay in manipulation and sowing more subtle fear. They should have done more of,that and utilized the possession more so you literally didn't know who to trust. Remember how tense the scene in The Last Mabelcorn was when Dipper thought Ford was possessed? I think I might have also liked some other character to turn out to have been possessed all along or at least long term, they should have done more with that.
Doing more with the Lovecraftian elements of Bill's character would have been good too.
>>79686659 How Gideon discovered the second journal? Whatever happened to the two Dipper clones who rode off with Robbie's bike? Why Stanford built the cloning printer and the mind swapping carpet? What has McGucket been up to since we saw him in Not What He Seems?
>>79687819 Going from being a wimpy little kid with an above average sense of curiosity to a full-on fearless paranormal investigator, also strengthening his relationship with his sister and gradually coming to terms with unrequited love if you give a shit about either of those.
>B-b-but muh apprenticeship!
He never needed it. He was doing just fine before he knew that Ford even existed.
>>79689390 Stan has had plenty, arguably the most out of anyone on the show, and I expect him and Ford will will get some more development in the finale to close out their arc. McGucket, Pacifica, Soos and even Robbie have changed a fair bit too.
I really like Mabel as a character but it is a shame that she's still pretty much the same person that she was a the beginning of the show.
>The thing about that episode was that Dipper should've known better than to follow Stan's advice about women. As for the ending with him being rejected 4 times, well, he had it coming. He was just stringing girls along selfishly.
This is the wrongest line of text I've ever read.
Dipper did nothing wrong. He talked to some girls and got their emails, that is not what "stringing along" means.
>>79691113 >girl that accepts you 100 percent with no compromise
I'm not seeing it. We only glimpsed the very begging of their relationship during which it's customary to be as nice and accepting as possible to each other and Melody was a (wo)manchild with far below 10/10 looks just like Soos.
>>79691113 >>79691340 I'd also like to add that autistic viewers are getting way too hung up on their perceived "moral" of every episode and immediately flinging shit if it doesn't sync with their personal outlook on life.
What made that episode great were it's jokes, many of which were about a subject matter that you would never expect a Disney show or mainstream US television in general to tackle, fantastic looking Paul Robinson pixel art and some genuinely heartwarming character development for Soos, not it's fucking moral.
>>79692218 Are you retarded? The entire point was that Soos' preconceived fears of women, which Giffany was fueling the flames of, were unfounded and overblown. Also Soos was being judged by the women he attempted to flirt with at the mall. Melody didn't judge him because they had a lot in common and were about on the same level of desirableness as each other.
>>79661875 >Really could have benefited from season 3, flesh out the relationship between Ford and Stan, cause more of a rift between Dipper and Mabel, explore what exactly Bill is and why he wants to escape to our world, etc.
Literally fucking this. I understand and respect that the show is coming to an end (which will make it die a legend rather than having to suffer through seasonal rot) but two seasons just seems just too tight to fit everything in. So many things could've been elaborated on and explored but Alex and the writers really rushed the second half of Season 2 just to pop the conclusion out as fast as possible. Just one more season would've tied it all together incredibly and give the audience a deeper attachment to these characters. Consider this: Ford was revealed less than a year ago (in March), backstory finally explained in July, and the show is departing from us next week. We've only had this major character around (which the whole entire mystery of the show was built upon) for less than a year, and that's including the hiatuses. I'd love to know more about Ford and what his experiences in other dimensions for 30 years was like. We got to see what Stan did during those decades, so it really frustrates me. Alex claims the show won't answer everything because of the 'mystery' aspect, but to me that just seems like a lazy excuse for him to move on to his next show.
basically I think the INTENSE BURNING HATRED OF MABEL BECAUSE SHE'S A MARY SUE AND NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENS TO HER AND I'LL ONLY BE SATISFIED IF ALEX HIRSCH SHOWS HER GRAPHICALLY BEING GANG RAPED BY GNOMES attitude is silly
>>79693392 God can you avatarfaggotry star fags fuck off and stop shilling your horribly mediocre show? Just because you like jacking off to underage demon girls and writing cringe fanfics about retarded ships does not make your show amazing.
I just finished watching my first Gravity Falls marathon. Had never watched it before, but had some friends recommend it. I was immediately disappointed, the first couple of episode, hell almost the entire first season was pretty meh in my opinion. However as the second season was approaching it started getting better, and then the second season hit and I was hooked.
I did notice some quirky 4th wall jabs at the fans, which I assume was just people being disapointed about the direction of the show. I didn't feel the same way, but hell I hadn't been obsessing over the show on tumblr and in /co/, theory crafting and all that shit that usually happens in between episodes and seasons. I was watching the whole thing in one go with no background noise, and I was enjoying it.
And then I got to the latest episode, and my heart broke. I cried, not because the show is any special kind of emotional or because I'm a huge fag, but because it hit home, right in the feels. You see I have a sister, she's not my twin, but we're only one year apart. We've been through a lot of shit together, my dad being in prison for most of my life, my mom attempting suicide once, being molested by my older step brother. But in a way we survived it all unscathed for the most part, together. Once we finished highschool though things started going wrong, we didn't spent time together anymore or talked that much, she found different friends and started drinking and doing drugs. It started spiraling out of control until one day I found her in her room with her wrists slit. My heart was broken, I couldn't believe that my sister had reached this point, and I somehow felt responsible as her older brother. I should have protected her. She survived thankfully but up until a couple of months ago she's been a heroin addict and been through a lot of shit.
That's why this show is now engraved into my soul, this last episode in a sense showed me what could have been if I had tried harder to save her.
I understand why everyone is irked by how little is explained about the stuff going on in Gravity Fall and with Ford, but the show isn't about all that. The show is about Dipper and Mable, and the summer that changed their lives.
>>79696351 Me too. I thought they were going make some jabs at Gruncle Ford for not being accustomed to earth. Then later, Dipper and Mabel or Zeus get curious. They accidentally activate the portal and get to explore a whole new dimension for a month, or at least a day.
>>79698936 So /r9k/ people hate Mabel with a burning passion?
>>79692546 >Do not substitute real relationship with fictitious idealized one >And you will find unrealistically harmonic relationship with woman who will accept you 100% and will never require you to compromise
It was a stupid episode. Maybe they didn't actually aim for profound, but they made it stupid.
>>79702147 m8 we saw literally less than the first 24 hours of their relationship. I don't know if you've ever been in a relationship before but complaining about and critiquing each other is something that comes later on.
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