Ok, so the should he/shouldn't he be white conversation is everywhere. No matter who is cast, people are gonna be upset. It looks like Scott Buck is keeping him white, like the comics. So, the question is how do you think him and/or K'un-Lun are going to be portrayed?
>Mostly NYC, K'un-Lun minimal?
>Make it like Asgard, and multiracial? Even though that ruins the whole 'visual outsider' thing.
>Pull a Dr. Strange, and change K'un-Lunians characters in the Iron Fist mythos into white or non-Asian races to try to avoid clichés.
I think this would be the worst idea if Davos and The Thunder weren't Asian. However, having the villain be Asian, after the campaign would cause a HUGE blowback. Meachum as main series villain, would probably be best. Davos could be a sub villain, later expanded on in season two.
>Show the past (Asian) Iron Fists prominently, in flash backs and individual episodes.
I think this would best, at least for the first season. As much as I want to see the Other Immortal Weapons, it's not a good idea to overload the first season with that much lore already.
Thoughts and ideas /co/?
>budget-wise that's not feasible.
Unfortunately, this maybe the case. We may just see the inside of rooms, but not much outside. However, a lot of the past fists stories take place in rural environments.I hope if anything some of the K'un-Lun flashback budget is kept to show off previous fists.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't previous Iron Fists more than just Asian? Well, that is West Asian.
I vaguely remember some Indian Iron Fists though I could be wrong. Honestly they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
>Make Iron Fist asian, make everyone asian aside from Misty etc
'What, so all asians know kung fu magic? Is that it? Racists!
>Keep Danny as he is
'White Saviour stereotype, beating up the poor backwards Orientals and showing them the error of their ways!'
Only option is to make Danny black
>Indian Iron Fists
I think you're talking about Bei Bang-Wen, he wore a turban, but was ethnically K'un-Lunian. IIRC he befriended and fought with an Indian guy that was the personification of an Indian God.
>He would lose all of his chemistry with Luke
>implying Luke doesn't get caught in an explosion, first day on the job and turn
That's the one, yes. It'll be interesting to see how they do K'un Lun though, in terms of ethnicity. I mean, will all K'un Lun born characters be of the same ethnicity, i.e all Chinese or will they be a mix? The latter could cause more issues
lol'd, seriously though even that would incur backlash, as you've now white-washed all (aesthetically) Asian character. No matter which direction you go, it's gonna get criticisms on race. It's pretty much inevitable at this point. Like other Anons have said:
>Damned if you do, damned if you don't
>'White Saviour stereotype, beating up the poor backwards Orientals and showing them the error of their ways!'
Since when has this ever freaking happened?! He's never been your arch typical "White Savior", he's not a tourist that passes by and frees that Asians of their bondage, using his superior 'white blood'. He may have been "Mighty Whitesque" at the beginning, I'll give you that, but he's never been a 'white saviour'. They saved him.
>Make it like Asgard, and multiracial? Even though that ruins the whole 'visual outsider' thing.
Oh man, I hate this so much.
You made me remember about the The Hobbit movies, where after a problem regarding not casting a black actress as a hobbit, they decided to make the Lake Town multiracial.
Which is stupid for a lot of reasons.
Middle Earth is our earth, and Laketown is localized on the norse countries, there is no way that that place would be full of black and chinese people.
I hope they dont make this.
Reminds me of that polish game based on polish folklore people didn't like, because it didn't include PoC. I think it would be cool if we got more multiracial games, some of the peoples arguments for more black people et al in the games kinda irked me though, because it sounded so US-centric. I read a really good article on this, but I can't remember what it was called unfortunately.
Well, they might as well. It's still under Netflix, if they did do that they'd have to modify them so it's not so obvious. Speaking of Marco Polo has that second season been scrapped?
It's filming. It was a huge investment of locations and sets, which are mainly an entry cost. It should be cheaper to maintain from now on. They also don't really lose money on it, since it's not taking a time slot away from a better rated show anyway. 1$ profit is still profit for them.
It's actually not. He's meant to be visually privileged while in America, so if you were to cast a mixed-Asian actor, they would have to be an extremely 'white-passing' one, a la Alexa Chung.
Kek, As opposed to Matt Murdock?
Heh, I didn't watch it, but I was in the room while my housemates did. The story seemed cookie cutter, but the sets and visuals in general were pretty as fuck. There's so much color, and we bought a new TV with pretty neat contrast. Fucking great to see it essentially benchmarked at 16:9.
Why yes, Matt does have "white privilege".
Difference is though Danny was raised in a place where he's an ethnic minority without riches, then when he comes back to NYC he on the opposite end. He's an ethnic majority and rich as fuck. On the outside he seems like any old WASP, but he doesn't conform to those expectations, because of how he was raised and what he experienced.
This contrast is also part and parcel of his relationship dynamic with Luke Cage.
Yes. Just like god intended. Blacks and Asians can create their own characters that stand on their own merits to warrant a TV show that shows enough financial credibility to be published by a studio. They can make their characters any color they want. It is a free country, and writing is one of the cheapest things to do. All you need is a pen, paper, and a pseudonym, is your name is too "street". I'd watch a good show about a chink any day of the week.
Heck, I already watch Agents of SHIELD that yellow-washed a reasonably well-known white(latina?) character and it's not even that good a show, so why not try doing something truly remarkable?
I don't know. Are you
>is keeping racist white character white
If you looked at the whole of his character you'd realise he's not half as "racist" or "problematic" as you say he is. In fact, quite the opposite.
Just make his father the Mandarin. Even if they had Fu Manchu rights, he wouldn't be used for obvious reason. People were pissed Mandarin wasn't Chinese, but the real one is still out there. He could easily fill the father role.
>If they had Fu Manchu rights
I think everyone does. Isn't it public domain?
Although eeing the Mandarin would be cool. They did mention giving Slattery plastic surgery to make him look more like him, so Ben Kingsley could still play him. I still think it's better to let that one die off for the current slew of phases though.
Marco polo is just a blatant "WE WANT THE GAME OF THRONES" audience, but I wish they put more thought into it, its just pretty boring
though it was funny since I watched some with my parents an they couldn't understand what was going on because all the chinese names sounded the same to them
The Rohmer estate still has the rights, I believe it's weird. I think that's why they haven't been able to bundle the Shang-Chi trades, until now. I guess something must have happen? Maybe, they struck a deal, his rights went back into PD? I have no idea.
From what I watched, 'The Last Kingdom' felt a bit more blatant like that (with Vikings woven in between). Marco Polo felt to me like them trying something new, to be completely honest. There aren't a lot of live action Asian period dramas. I feel like most Netflix productions are experimenting something new (from a market/technical standpoint) to test what works best and what they can get away with, financially.
They have very diverse shows, and most of them were high quality for a while, but they've started to try weirder and weirder things. Heck, their first two movies were an African War Drama and an Adam Sandler production. Couple that with weird things like the Marvel Shows (as in high[er] budget/quality super-hero shows, Marco Polo, Making a Murder). It really feels like they are testing their market share, and Marco Polo was them trying to see if they could recoupe a $100m investment in 2 or 3 years for the heck of it.
In just 3 or 4 years of own production they've become a juggernaut only rivaled by HBO and BBC in terms of critical acclaim. Very weird.
The special is pretty cool and independent from everything else. Felt a lot like a A:TLA universe one-shot to me, who hasn't seen the rest of it closely enough. It's also only 30 minutes.
I mean, its original in concept, but its still them trying to make a game of thrones type show for obvious reasons.
I do love a lot of netflix's programming, I just wish they gave us more bigger budget animations instead of whatever dreamworks is shitting out. And also they're causing every other service to up their game as well (amazon in particular) which is great.
first episode is just 40 minutes of VIOLENT VIOLENCE and SEXY SEX and ham handed intrigue to try and get people hooked, it gets much better afterwards, even though I still think it was slow and uninteresting to me, but I don't like period drama stuff.
It's one of the things I don't get. I always thought that after their agreement to produce the Marvel shows, they'd have the MCU and most of Marvel's ive action and animated shows on there for people to watch, even if just the non-US markets.
But it's cape-shit dry, and so it the US one with movies at least, from what I understand.
They might. I mean this campaign has been VERY loud, and you know Marvel are cognizant of it. Lexi Alexander, who is fully in favour and wants of an Asian-American Danny Rand said she recently had a "pleasant chat" with Marvel. It makes me wonder what it was.
they have the new marvel shows up (Avengers Assemble, SMASH) on netflix and occasionally MCU movies, but I think they want to get as much money from the movies as they can before putting them on netflix
Fuck no, I think it would be more of a "cultural appropriation" if you make Kun Lun multiracial than having Danny be a white guy.
Leave the Asian town Asian and leave the white guy white.
Also no one tell them about Orson Randall they might make him black.
Speaking of, who the heck should play Davos? Are there any 'well built' Asian dudes in their 40's that fit the Marvel tradition of getting rather important actors for their villains?
I heard Marvel already casted Danny before this AAIronFist shit started, which I am guessing why they are holding off the whole announcement as to not cause a shitstorm this early.
Eitheirway these people are going to watch the show just to complain and nitpick every little scene, but they will watch it.
How the fuck do these people even know who iron fist is.
IF is my favorite character, no one talks about him. All of the sudden I can't stop seeing posts about how he should be Asain or black or Mexican. There's been a shit ton of different Iron Fists, why do we have to fuck with Danny?
If this to be to believed.
>[DYLAN KENDALL] 25 - 28 yrs old, handsome and sophisticated, independent and a loner. SERIES REGULAR
>[HARRY MARSHALL] 45 - 50 yrs old. Caucasian, highly intelligent, merciless, confident and arrogant, physically active. SERIES REGULAR
Pinch of salt required, but an Anon said his sister-in law worked for the production costume department and Ryan Phillippe went in for a fitting. He was in talks with Marvel for a Netflix show, so who knows. I know he's a young looking 41 year old. I could see him passing as a person in their mid-thirties, but mid-twenties? Pushing it me thinks. And he doesn't look 'gruff' enough, to be Orson.
I said in the other thread that I could see Hunter Parrish (Silas from Weeds) or someone as obscure as him getting the gig. I don't know if he has the acting shops, but he has the look, sort of. Bit of a manlet.
Danny is a white kid that was taken in and raised by Orientals. I don't see what the big problem is. He was orphaned at a young age and trained rigorously.
For fuck's sake, having Danny be Oriental completely takes away everything about the character. And it's a guaranteed failure if they casted one.
He looks too baby faced for Danny and holy fuck he is 41.
And yeah no way he can pass as Orson, too young looking and not gruff enough.
I guess they didn’t specify race on what I think is Danny's casting.
Danny was casted, Marvel Entertainment loves synergy and they are already advertising Danny as a blonde white guy in their stuff.
Maybe if this was the Marvel Studios I would buy it but ME will keep Danny a white guy.
Loads of people think he was A) Went to K'un-Lun as an Adult, and was just a white tourist, who saved those inferior Asian with his superior white blood. See: All those "White Saviour/Mighty Whitey" accusations.
B) They think Marvel didn't believe an Asian lead for a Kung-Fu book would be successful, therefore slapped a 'white-face' on him to secure sales. See: See accusations of 'white-washing', and comparing him to Mickey Rooney in "Breakfast at Tiffany's", and John Wayne as "Genghis Khan".
Both of which are untrue. The lack of research, and ignoring context I've seen, has been Amazing.
>They think Marvel didn't believe an Asian lead for a Kung-Fu book would be successful
This is true though. An Asian lead would alienate American readers. Even Shang Chi is more of a cult favorite than a mainstream success. It's the nature of the business. White readers (who are the majority) don't care for Asians that much.
How are they going to do the Dragon?
>Iron Fist entering a fire-releasing dark cave?
>Full on live action?
>Sepia power-point still-frames?
>Killing a dude with a dragon tattoo?
>Off-screen, only mentioned through verbal exposition?
Not Quite. It may seem strange to believe now, but back in the day Shang-chi was MUCH more popular than Danny. His series lasted a total of 109 issues. Iron Fist had 26 altogether. (11 Marvel premier issues, plus 15 issues solo.) He was facing cancellation until, Marvel make him a duo with another Hero on his last legs. Luke Cage, Hero for Hire. A rich, white guy, and a street-wise black guy being friends/partners and teaching each other things was part of their success as a duo. An interracial friendship was new at that point. So, was a white character having a black woman as his primary love interest. I've heard PM+IF was boycotted in the South, because of this. People who say Danny's race is irrelevant are frankly lying to themselves.
One of reasons why Shang-Chi fell out of mainstream popularity was because, Marvel lost the rights "Fu Manchu". They had reverted back to the Rohmer estate. Most of Shang's supporting cast came from there. So he's pussy-footed around the Marvel Universe ever since. ( He was on the periphery, anyway.)
If they were to bring him it, they should make his father the real 'Mandarin'.
When you look at the whole context, Iron Fist isn't as insidious as people make him out to be. I will admit the white martial artist being the most popular (because, of his tight relationship with Luke, streetlevelverse as a whole) looks a little bit awkward.
He was a hit because of the kung fu craze in the 70's, but any Millenial (born in 1988 here) will give you a blank face if you ask about Shang-Chi. Hence why I said he was a cult favorite and not an A-Lister like Spider-Man, the X-Men, etc.
It's been proven time and time again that Asians are not marketable to the everyday person.
>but any Millenial (born in 1988 here) will give you a blank face if you ask about Shang-Chi
TBF, they'd do the same if you asked about Iron Fist. The only reason why that would change is because he's got a show. The same would be for Shang, if he ended up getting a property.
Up until 1960, Irish weren't quite considered "white" by WASP society. JFK being elected (which was a miracle since he was Catholic) made American accept the fact that Irish were civilized.
And I'm not Irish btw. Not a drop of Celtic blood.
I got to know Iron Fist because of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. I already knew about Luke Cage from the comics, but I never gained interest in Danny until I saw the cartoon that introduced Heroes for Hire.
Can we all agree this guy would have been perfect? :(
But, that has nothing to do with what they're saying. What they are accusing Marvel of, and in Danny being, is flat out wrong.
Cartoons are soft power. If they want him to really make a first stamped impression on 'millennials', they should introduce him on their cartoons. EMH would have been ideal, but it's canceled now.
>I guess they didn’t specify race on what I think is Danny's casting.
I'd imagine it's because of #AAIronFist. The situation is already messy enough as it is. I can only imagine the reaction if Caucasian was specified.
God I hate this ultra sensitive shit that's going on.
>I heard Marvel already casted Danny before this AAIronFist shit started, which I am guessing why they are holding off the whole announcement as to not cause a shitstorm this early.
Heard this to. Would have thought the chosen actor has gotten wind of this by now. Wonder how he feel.
>people are going to watch the show just to complain and nitpick every little scene, but they will watch it.
Ain't this the truth.
it literally doesn't matter
what matters is that in Kun Lun he is "the outsider" despite being raised there and that in NYC he's a fish out of water despite it being where he has roots
there are very few character where their Race matters
Luke Cage comes close since his origin is very much a "Minority injustice" type thing
Tell that to the people who want Danny to be Asian-American. It really annoys me, when they tar the people explaining, with the racists. Deliberately forcing a binary.
If they knew the character like they say they did, they would know that they are asking for the reverse Danny Rand, not Danny Rand as he is. Doubt they care, though.
>I'd watch a good show about a chink any day of the week.
>Heck, I already watch Agents of SHIELD that yellow-washed a reasonably well-known white(latina?) character and it's not even that good a show, so why not try doing something truly remarkable?
Do you watch Fresh Off The Boat? It's pretty good, but Eddie Huang disowned it after a few episodes because it strayed from the book. The book is meant to be way more "street" and the showed missed it, but it's still very Asian oriented. Heck, last episode was about Chinese New Year and how they have to live in a white society that doesn't know anything about them.
Some of the ones wanting Asian American Danny know he's supposed to be an outsider so they reason it as that's what being born an AA already is. He's too American for K'un Lun (Asian country of origin) and too Asian for white people. They even figured out that Danny can have an Asian father that was a great business man so Danny would still be rich privileged.
I'm Portuguese and have never seen a Portuguese super-hero produced in America, despite there being Portuguese towns in major cities. Where's MY representation?
Every single 'Portuguese' speaks Brazilian or Spanish, which would warrant you a hit with a bakers wooden spoon in real life, but we don't give a fuck and roll with it.
There's a fucking Maori director. And they have like 0% representation in America. He's technically Asian-ish, right?
Nobody cares. People are too entitled to appearances and representation in media. They are always going to go to the biggest slice. They are not going to proportionately pick the slices between them.
I know they say that all the time. The example they give is of an Japanese-American for example, being considered an outsider in Japan despite being ethnically the same. That's true, and I'm not gonna deny that. However, they always miss out the VERY important contextual factor. He was NINE when he went to K'un-Lun. After being there for a decade (maybe more in the show), it's really contrived to say he'd still be seen an an 'outsider' after all those years, unless it was based on a superficial reason. It's not as though he didn't assimilate to the culture.
He's an egg.
Japanese-American= Cultural outsider in Japan, but not visual
Danny Rand= Visual outsider, but not cultural in K'un-Lun.
We don't give a shit. We made up our own fascist superhero (right hand to the dictator from 1930s-1974) to beat the comuninjas (yes, comunist ninjas), despite the fact that everyone hated the dictator.
We're in a level of meta way too complex for the wide audience of the states/world. Which is also why we have similar humour to kiwi's, despite living in the opposite sides of the world.
Yeah, wasn't there still a bit of a sting from some people that grew up with Danny? They would still think in the back of their minds, and sometimes vocally, but he's still white, he can never be one of us!
As a hispanic, I don't want a recolored hero. I'd rather someone (maybe ME?) that can write a hero from scratch. Also, there's no way a Mexican will be looked at as privileged in America, nor do they look Asian. You're thinking of Filipinos which aren't Mexican.
>It came out against Star Wars
Well, that's pretty cool, especially for such a recent film. Usually takes a while to bulid that. Lucky the comedians are so popular.
Eastern asians are right above whites on the "people caring about stupid race shit" scale. The only time people give a damn and complain is when a cool thing is gonna happen like Iron Fist.
I can understand why Asian-Americans would be upset by what people are telling them about this character (whether wrong or not). An Asian-American Danny Rand sounds like the far better alternative, and at least an Asian male could be the lead. Which is rare.
Why is it that literally the ONLY thing people have been discussing about this show is the race of the main character?
while enjoying a degree of niche popularity, he really doesn't bring much to the table that hasn't already been done. and the Iron Fist brand has undergone very little evolution compared to the more big name heroes
Because a WHITE character CAN'T do ASIAN things! How dare he be amazing at ASIAN activities and be WHITE. So, instead let's make him ASIAN. Because an ASIAN doing ASIAN things ISN'T STEREOTYPICAL in the SLIGHTEST.