The entire concept of Dick going undercover would've been butchered by less competent writers. At least SeeKing are above making Dick kill since they said that drama would be way too easy. Lesser writers would've done it. Probably more than once.
>>79086333 Tom King writing Not being afraid to be goofy/campy sometimes not spelling everything out for you having faith that readers can understand an follow the book's plots and stories taking a chance by stepping outside of big-name, big-baddie, capshit and instead doing a lowkey spy book
They finally figured out something for Dick to do other then Poor Man's Daredevil.
I remember someone on /co/ making the point that Dick has had hundreds of issues and multiple volumes dedicated to his solo comic but they still never gave him an interesting rogues' gallery, support team or iconic runs. That's almost impressive mediocrity.
>>79086554 >I remember someone on /co/ making the point that Dick has had hundreds of issues and multiple volumes dedicated to his solo comic but they still never gave him an interesting rogues' gallery, support team or iconic runs. That's almost impressive mediocrity.
You know, I had never thought of it before, but that's pretty accurate. Even in the big Bat crossovers his issues were pretty blah.
>>79086522 > Dan Didio one day deciding that Nightwing should be DC's Winter Soldier, and use guns. And for the tagline to be "You don't know Dick" > Mike Marts putting his friend Tim Seeley on the title > Tim Seeley deciding that not to make a Winter Soldier clone, and letting it be more fun. And to incorporate Morrison lore > Mark Doyle taking over, not realizing that Seeley was on the title, and accidentally putting a second writer on it > Second writer just happens to be Tom King, someone completely new, but has CIA experience and Batlore knowledge > Geoff Johns dropping his Nightwing subplot in Forever Evil, and leaving him tied up in a chair, and "killing" him
It's like every broken clock in the world was right at the same time
And King and Seeley apparently have to keep reminding King about getting too dark and sad on accident
>At this point, I’ve actually written two full of issues of Grayson that I ended up throwing in the trash bin: the first drafts to issues nine and 12. In both cases, I started writing introspective, sad sack Dick Grayson who was doing all sorts of “heavy are the pants that carry this ass” BS. I love that kind of stuff. I love when Daredevil does it and Batman does it and Spider-Man does it; but when Dick Grayson does it, it just plain doesn’t work.
>Dick Grayson is a fun character and his book needs to be fun. That’s not to say his life isn’t full of tragedy and drama. It is. Largely. But it’s Dick’s reaction to this tragedy and drama, his ability to continue to embrace humor and hope in spite of the shadows that embrace him that are part of who he is, part of his place in the DCU.
>>79086812 King said in interviews that he has a tendency to write dark and sad stuff and that it wouldn't be in character for Dick. He said Seeley is the one that keeps him reigned from going full "my parents are deaad and life is terrible".
It makes sense since all his other stuff is definitely dark and Grayson is his funniest, most lighthearthed book.
>>79086554 I read all 100+ issues of Nightwing and I can honestly barely remember anything that happened in it. Most of it wasn't awful, just unenduring, and the writers had a habit of scorching the earth and rebuilding rather than building on top of the previous run. Has anything survived from Dick's Nightwing era?
>>79087061 Uhhhh I think Daniel may have referenced Tomasi Nightwing in the Two Face since Tomasi also did Two Face. And his relationship with Barbara in general? Morrison had Dick reference Slade blowing up Bludhaven and killing people. I think that's about it?
Nothing from it appeared with Dick after the reboot though.
>>79086965 I probably wouldn't have gotten into DC actually. Started reading comics 2 years ago and been a full Marvelfag till Grayson.
I was disappointed in the current Marvel stuff and thought Grayson looked interesting. Liked it a lot, then read Midnighter and loved it too. After that I read everything from DCYou and now I'm disappointed I didn't start reading DC sooner. So thanks Grayson.
>>79087230 Because they got retconned into having been a Batgirl and Robin for 5ever with each other instead of Barbara showing up when Dick was in college. Also she, Selina, and Helena were basically the only older female bat characters of any note and still are.
>>79087595 It's funny how a direction nobody wanted could do a better job at that than Nightwing and leading a team DC doesn't really care about. Kinda interested in that thing Johns/Snyder/King are planning and if Dick has anything to do with it.
>>79087709 Is there anything that people liked from the Bludhaven era? I liked him as a cop, though not enough that I care whether it comes back. I think I liked Amy and Dick, which has some similarities to Helena and Dick right now.
>>79087857 That was really funny though Dixon was carefully trying to put Dick together with Barbara nice and slowly, but Devin had Dick and Helena fuck two issues into the mini after a couple character moments
Dan was half right, just wrong about the cure. Dick literally had nothing going for him, other than people just buying his book out of habit at the time of Infinite Crisis. It wasn't until Grant decided to turn him into Batman that he started to have his current Renaissance period and even there you had the Nightwing relaunch that didn't really work.
>>79086554 Lady Vic was pretty cool. You'll notice she still shows up now and again. Blockbuster was a Kingpin ripoff, but he was a fun Kingpin ripoff (at the start, anyways). They could have brought Rolly into the New 52. Tarantula could have worked as a twist on the femme fatale. She's remembered in the Batfan circles and should have been reintroduced in Nightwing/Grayson instead of Green Arrow.
>>79087811 Not true. Rucka used it during NML. He's fighting with Barbara over something so he hooks up with Huntress at New Years.
>>79087885 >I liked him as a cop, though not enough that I care whether it comes back.
That's the problem with the run. It was always "Dick Grayson as a cop," not "Dick Grayson IS a cop." It never felt permanent, it never felt like something meant to stick long-term, and never really gave him anything to take away as a character after it ended. Even after Dick gets his secret identity back, he'll still have his Spyral/Owls/DCSpyOrg contacts. This is something they can keep running with for years to come, and doesn't need to fold back up into a larger Bruce-centric story.
>>79086554 Nightwing's rogues gallery: >After having an early battle with Robin, Mouse later joined a team of villains, which included Catwoman, to steal millions of dollars. Here she met her future partner in crime, another computer hacking expert named Giz. Mouse and Giz were later hired by Blockbuster to track Oracle's location through the computer systems. They succeeded but Black Canary managed to save Barbara from Blockbuster's thugs.
>Mouse and Giz were then hired to blow up Dick Grayson's apartment building, which killed dozens of tenants. A deeply angered Nightwing let them go after they claimed they thought the building was supposed to be empty.
She's like his Catwoman, I guess. Because cats eat mice and bats eat nightwings.
>>79089326 >Lady Vic or "Lady Victim" is the sobriquet of Lady Elaine Marshe-Morton, one of a long and distinguished lines of British mercenaries extending back to her family's Norman roots. Aided and abetted by valet Bivens and an arsenal of exotic weapons, all relics of her ancestors' military excursions, Lady Vic operates as a hired killer to prevent foreclosure on her family estate
It's still coming out, and it's alright as a comic. Apparently the tech theme of this Warren Ellis comic is artificial limbs, so I'm half expecting Dr. No make some kind of an appearance at any given moment.
>>79089516 >Dudley Soames was once a crooked cop, working for Blockbuster. When Nightwing arrived in Blüdhaven to attempt to save the city, Soames acted as an informant for him. When Blockbuster discovered this, he twisted Soames' neck a full 180 degrees in an attempt to kill him. However, when police arrived on the scene, they discovered he was still alive.
>>79086665 >Dan Didio one day deciding that Nightwing should be DC's Winter Soldier, That never happened. Dick was originally planned to be in just another Nightwing book written by Tynion. Then Doyle was hired as the new Batman editor and decided to make some changes so they quickly had a few writers pitch basically Dick as a spy. Didio didn't do shit outside of coming up with that dumb tagline after they sent out pitches for a spy book.
The spy book mainly happened because they wanted to get Dick out of the Batman books as no one really wanted to deal with the consequences of Dick having his entire identity exposed to the world in FE, especially while Endgame was going on.
Because muh nostalgia. You know how comics fans are, Dick was Robin when they were kids, and everything needs to remain like that because that's what we are nostalgic about and it's entirely rose tinted reflection.
>>79091187 Nah. Don't forget when Dick was Robin he also was extremely bland. The best Batman-Robin combinations were Bruce-Tim and Dick-Damian. I would have liked having both the pairings active, but I'm not sure it would have been a good idea
People who want Dick back as Nightwing, I would assume, are New Teen Titans fans and people who only very recently got into comics.
And I think you're underestimating how much the Schumacher films, the first two seasons of BTAS and Adam West has influenced people in the past twenty years. That is what most people think when you as them about the basics of Batman, shit that is a weird amalgamation of the three. And now it's the Arkham games that are putting their five cents on the table.
>>79086860 wow, if these were two completely different writers I doubt that it would have ended this well (Probably would have gone something more like "Hurr DC incompetence" "Hurr they don't me the respect they deserve") Surprised that TheOuthousers or BleedingCool didn't crucify DC for this.
>>79086836 Surely /co/ and Tumblr make a good match. Tumblr may take it too far and in the wrong directions, but /co/ is among if not the most progressive board. Not to mention, this is a Dick thread and Tumblr is teeming with shipper-faggotry and gay porn.
>>79086333 DC's incompetence during Forever Evil allowed someone to make lemonade out of DC outing Nightwing I still think Johns wanted to kill Dick but got stopped by someone only reason I can see the bat office thinking Dick was dead
In any case King,Seeley,and Orlando are doing some good work within the black ops world of the DCU
Tom King is an amazing writer I read Sheriff of Babylon and its amazing to see someone get a shot at DC If they want to give someone a shot at GL he should be the man or better yet get to write WW or Flash
>>79093628 He wrote EVERY SINGLE BATBOOK. I can't think of another writer who had such an iron grip on a franchise. When Geoff Johns was on Green Lantern there were other guys writing Green Lantern Corps. What's even the point of publishing Batman and Tec if the same guy writes both?
>>79093608 Dick pretending to be dead was in the original pitch Didio had for Serley. Johns just ran out of room for plots and since Dick is not a villain, his was one of the first cut. Johns had an Orm thing he wanted but couldn't get to that either.
>>79094813 The Batfamily members in general are perfect for short "slice of life" comics/webcomics, since you can fully play their personality and relationships without having to deal with plot or action
>>79096205 Trying to read any story arc from that era is hell.
Part one is an issue of Batman, part two is an issue of Nightwing, part three is in Robin, part four is in Detective, part five is another issue of Batman, part six is Catwoman, part seven is Azrael or some shit.
>>79093628 Chuck wrote plenty of good Bat comics but it was pretty clear that he was stretched pretty thin at times, so all effort went on stuff line Robin and not Nightwing where he just wrote B-list DD stories
>>79092228 The thing about tumblr (as far as I understand, I only use it for porn) is that it is really broad. There are apparently whole communities of edgy angry 15 year old girls with brightly coloured hair who hate everything we love and are on some moral crusade, but most people who use it probably don't even ENCOUNTER them, let alone agree with them. It's mostly just for uploading and sharing images, some of them being drawn porn and gay things, nothing wrong with that.
>>79097155 Not really, on 4chan the images are small thumbnails attached to the real attraction, the messages, and you are instantly lambasted and vilified if you don't fit in while posting on ANY BOARD other than the imagedump ones. And often even on those two. It's a tight knit community.
Not the guy who you're responding too, but I can't help but agree with Gotham being terrible. Bruce is 10-12 years old while all his future enemies (Riddler, Cobblepot, etc. are all about 20 years older than him. By the time he becomes Batman, he will be putting these guys in nursing facilities not Arkham
>>79099813 >it's an alternate universe centered around Gordon.
A lot of people can't get over the adaptions vs elseworlds hump. I don't watch Gotham but generally embracing the mindset has improved my enjoyment of things. I still "not muh x" with some things but that's mostly due to execution rather than purely because they're different.
>>79086406 >uses guns Nigga, he never uses his gun. That's the point. I can't believe no one has attacked you hard enough to get you to leave /co/ yet.
>>79086333 A lot of people have been answering this question with very valid answers. So to summarize all that: >A Dick Grayson book >about Dick being Dick in a book all about Dick >a book that challenges the readers to get to know the real Dick >a book that challenges Dick to get to know himself
What more could you need? Sure, the sexiness, the colourfullness, the lore and references and all that, they're all great and help to make Grayson one of the best comics out there right now, but even without all that, this book would still be fantastic. Because it would be a Dick book. A good one.
>>79104460 I still find it funny how hard Dixon really pushed that. Had to make Dick say how much better Tim was at least half a dozen times. At least he managed to make Tim not a complete idiot so it wasn't in vain.
>>79107172 I thought we were talking about Grayson? Not OOC guest appearances?
>>79105565 You got me there, senpai. Dick did use a flashbang thing in #2, he did shoot at the range, and he did shoot Paragon.
So, to recap: >Dick was fighting a speedster cannibal, and decided to scare her by using his gun >He shoots at a shooting range because he's being forced to. He also pretends to be terrible. It's not Batman has never trained Dick to shoot, right? And I'm sure, if Batman ever did, they would obviously just shoot real people and not use a shooting range? >He used a gun against a being who had replicated the Justice League's powers (of course, all to a weaker extent, because otherwise, Dick would literally need to be Superman-tier to have won).
You're right he used a gun. It's not so bad, though, man. Not using a weapon you are forced to carry is a much dumber thing, to me, though. He's not going full anti-hero either. Most of the earlier issues of Grayson was literally about Dick not using his gun. Not wanting to, other people asking him why he doesn't, etc.
So yeah, I was wrong. Mostly because I spend more time actually reading the content of the book and trying to understand everything that goes on, rather than counting the number of times he's used his gun.
And don't act like Nightwing has never used a gun, either.
I never stuck around long enough to grasp the elseworlds thing. They marketed it as the beginning of Batman story so when they started shitting the bed in that department I just assumed they were being dumb.
Elseworlds story based on Gordon makes a lot more sense, I might check it out with that mindset.
>>79110625 I think you have to realize one day it's almost always an Elsworlds sort of deal. Pretty much the only 1 to 1 adaptions are some of those DC animated films that merely cut out some plot points for time (usually to their detriment). Pretty much everything else is taking an idea from comic lore and putting its own spin on things.
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