>>78975726 Yeah, but how did that put Miles and his supporting cast in 616 as well as Old Man Logan and presumably other AU characters? And why are some things different like Hawkeye's brother being fat and nobody knowing Daredevil's secret ID?
>>78975791 Secret Wars! Miles is in 616 because he gave burger to Molecule Man. OML is in 616 because handwave. And Miles doesn't remember shit of Ultimate world. Not sure why OML remembers, though, but it could be explained because he's from future. And doesn't know there's teen Cyclops.
>>78975791 desu it's a whole lot of little shit, not Earth shattering stuff like in DC Crises. No different from how Marvel usually operates, really. They forget (in at least one writer's case ignore) character details all the time.
>>78975908 As far as I'm aware, the only members of Miles' supporting cast that were brought over to Earth-616 are ones that didn't already exist in some way (his parents, Ganke, Lana, Judge and presumably their parents).
>>78975829 >The rest is Franklin making shit up as he goes along rebuilding the multiverse I dont remember this happening. I think the last one I read was thanos pep talking giant Thing to revolt against doom
>>78976738 Franklin could just think the terrigen mists are fucking shit and they dissapear, also he can return the fertility to everyone and their mother with a handwave because that's how overpowered that little shit is
Yeah, I mean, the idea that Reed is the smarter one of the two is nothing new and works entirely fine thematically because hubris and ego is always Doom's Achilles heel, but the big climax built around Doom whining about how Reed would have done a better work is fucking bullshit end to the conflict after spending three years showing how fucking worthless Reed was in saving the multiverse. Reed should have attacked Victor with the insinuation that Doom could have done a better job than this chaotic battle world, or that he was too pussy to try and recreate everything from scratch, and Doom having a moment of clarity where he recognizes his self-doubt and insecurities being at fault, once again making him the weaker man of the two. Not Doom shouting at Reed how he knows he would have done it all better like teenage girl throwing a hissy fit. That's fucking weak, man.
Yes. And yes. Of course, the current Captain America has always been an African-American.
The title is just that: a title. Making me question why you take issue with him being not white. There have been... five? Six? Captains America. Most of them were Caucasian. Wasn't it about time? Of course, one might question why it should be Sam Wilson. What's Elijah Bradley doing these days?
Unlike Thor, which is a NAME. There literally is no good reason for THAT transition except 'we need more women in superhero roles' and I wonder if that is actually true. Superhero comics are a pretty immature genre.
>Brevoort: I think so. At a certain point, we set out here to do the last Fantastic Four story, at least for the time being. We didn't necessarily start with that as the original goal way back even with "Avengers" #1. That having been said, it's such a natural end point because a lot of this stuff organically grows out of Jonathan's "Fantastic Four" run. It seems like a fitting capstone to all of that.
This explains everything. Blame editorial for this shitshow of a title.
>>78977302 >Captains America. Most of them were Caucasian. Wasn't it about time? When will we have Asian-American Captain America? When is time for Latino Captain America? I DEMAND European Captain America.
>>78977198 Anybody else think that was out of character for Ultimate Reed? I never saw him flat out betray someone during his evil Ultimate runs. He was a prick, but he never went muahahaha villain mode like he did at the end of SW
Thor is also a title within the MU. This is the second time someone other than Thor Odinson has been the superhero Thor. 4th or 5th if you count alternate future Thors like Dargo Ktor.
I really wish you kids would read comics instead of crying like little bitches. There was a fucking team of them long before SW with 2 on the team explicitly name *the* Thors of their time you /pol/tard piece of shit.
>>78977456 No, he's right. Doing something simply for the sake of diversity and to appease another race or group of people is wrong. That's why Black Panther and Luke Cage are so awesome. They were originally black, and that made them so powerful, so potent at the time they were made. Retroactively turning people black, or female, or asian, simply to add diversity, instead of taking the time to write new, interesting characters... is lazy and horrible.
Luke was made to take advantage of the whole blaxsploitation genre which was a huge trend and mainly marketed at black audiences. There's really nothing wrong with being a business and catering your product to multiple consumer markets from WASPs to black people etc. It's standard practice and commercial suicide nowadays given the importance of global revenues not to. It's one of the reasons as shitty as it is the Fast & Furious franchise makes so much money globally.
>>78977437 To be fair, Bendis wanted to kill Peter Parker off in Civil War II but Slott wouldn't let him. Likewise, Marvel wanted to kill the F4 off but Hickman outright refused and said he'd rather quit than write that story.
You may hate some of these writers, but they're also the only ones protecting certain characters from being killed off.
Too bad there wasn't anyone to protect Cyclops when they decided to shit ALL OVER HIM.
>>78977385 it was just a way for Hickman to have his Reed and Doom final showdown without someone interrupting, because let's be honest, Maker would've pull some magic gadget that would insta kill Doom or something
the fucking hack needed to monologue his NOT MUH into the final fight
>>78977661 then why if they want to pander so much to the blacks and latinos and everything can't they make a new character? take for example Kamala, she is a girl, muslim hipster etc... and she was a new character yes she took the Ms Marvel role but it was justified because Carol became Cpt Marvel and she was a huge Fangirl and got Carol's blessing, same with Miles (even tho Bendis can't write for shit), hell Amadeus Cho becoming a Hulk is a great idea for passing the torch, atleast he was his own character and great friend of Banner (also there are a crapload of hulks so it's fucking nothing)
Are you telling us that minorities are so fucking insecure that they need to have an stablished name to get behind (Captain America, Thor, butchering Kitty Pride by making her Star Lord) instead of creating new interesting characters catered to them?
seems like they still need the help of the white man that they loathe so much
Stop generalising people you autist. Huge groups of people aren't monolithic blocks. This is also the 4th time in continuity someone other than Steve Rogers has been Captain America.
You didn't cry about the 1950s Cap being revealed as not Steve, or when John Walker was Cap, or Bucky. Why are you shitting the bed it's Falcon? Who is a more logical choice for the role than pretty much all those previous replacements..
Because the world isn't segregated. A multinational corporation like Marvel or any content producer isn't a "white" company. It has hundreds of different people of multiple nationalities & ethnicities working for it. It decides to launch a new character, it's going to sell better if its an established brand. Doesn't matter if the characte is black, white, or green. There's no conspiracy you tard just business in a world that increasingly looks diverse because products are shipped and consumed everywhere now and as margins are lower than ever.
Why do /pol/tards read comics characters made by Jewish people? Why can't you have your own characters and comics instead of stealing them from Jewish people and saying they are yours? I think white boys need to stick to white comics like Archie and Casper. Marvel comics and characters should only be read or enjoyed by Jewish people as that's who created them. They shouldn't even sell Marvel products outside the synagogue.
If you're white why are you reading about a Jewish created character like Capt America or the superhero version of Thor? You should be reading about glorious Aryan made Aryan heroes like Archie and Richie Rich. Race traitors!
those are still wild rice grains in in a sea of white rice. milestone was a continuity with a large minority cast, yet most people dont know beyond static(who is still referred to as static shock by the few that remember him)
>>78978010 I get you, but then we can agree it's more of a writer's fault for not making a good enough character? because it can be done, Falcon for example is a great character, one of my favorites, but now that he is the cap I don't find him that good, not because I don't like the character, but because it simply isn't well written as Cap, it feels a little soulless, not feeling quite like Cap and not like Falcon, just a weird thing inbetween...
also for example the femthor thing was lazy as fuck because they never told us the reason why Thor lost his hammer it was just "She is a grill, GRRRRLLLL power deal with eat old fans can fuck a rake" also it didn't help that the comic has been just uninteresting for someone that doesn't care about grrlll power and just wants to se Thor punching shit every third panel
shoehorning minorities just because of diversity is lazy as fuck in my book and disrespectful (the same way affirmative action is but that's another topic)
Was John Walker that well written when he was Captain America? Did you have a shit fit then? When Thor Odinson flat out went missing with no explanation and Eric Masterson took over as Thor for the Marvel Universe did you bitch and whine?
So white boys are fine when new white heroes take on the mantle of existing heroes, as happened *constantly* during the late 80s & 90s, but if it's a woman or minority they shit the bed saying it's not a mantle and only the original can be that hero? Why is that?
falcon being cap at least makes sense. before he became a completely bitter asshole, cap had no problem dropping the suit to people he thought were worthy if he couldnt/wouldnt continue wielding the shield. and seeing as sam is his best friend since coming to the future, its a logical progression. bucky wasnt caplike either, but he did make for an interesting character
jane on the other hand i agree with. between still not having a reason for odinson losing his hammer, to titania being straight retarded(i wish spider man would have showed up when she gave that fucking speech), and mjolnir liking her more for some odd reason, theyve tried hard to legitimize her through unknown means. the problem is that people arent gonna buy that shit for long and shes gonna have to do something to leave a mark, or she'll be seen as a mistake
It's superheroes not Shakespeare. Jane Foster, the most famous supporting character in the history of Thor, being Thor for a while makes perfect sense from business p.o.v. Which is what Marvel and every single publisher or content creator in any medium is. If it was some random woman like Roz Soloman shit wouldn't sell and people wouldn't be interested.
>>78978332 yeah, my only gripe with Falcon is the way it is written, like I said he doesn't feel like Falcon or Cap, and yes if the people doing Janethor don't get her act together she will be forgotten quickly
>>78978377 atleast they should've given a reason like with Falcon or hell even Laura as the new Wolverine not just putting her there just because
>>78978472 until they give a valid reason what cancer girl became Thor people will still see her as a shoehorned character that shouldn't be there... when Thor went missing it wasn't a big deal because they didn't change shit for the sake of changing it, he came back and things went as normal
but well Thor might be getting ultimate Mjolnir soon so every one (if they haven't already) can ditch thundercancergirl (that's if they give Odinson his book if not we'll be stuck with the bitch)
>>78976738 >>78976994 >>78976964 axtually since now the 616 universe was imagined by Franklin he's the fault of the mists in the first place.Because when he was making that universe he thought how mutants are hated and feared and threatened to become extinct and that's what happened. And when making another universe he thought of how unca peter was sad for losing Gwen and now that universe is populated only of gwens.
>>78975236 People have covered a few things, but I'll try my hand.
The event worked as an ending/beginning to Hickman's FF run, and Reed's relentless attempts to redeem Doom, by curing his face.
Franklin is now officially the creator and shaper of the multiverse, which has been theorized for years, but is now verifiable fact.
The old Multiverse (7) has been replaced by the new Multiverse (8) which results in storyline cues for Contest of Champions and Ultimates in the form of the plot device "Iso-8"
Miles and friends get a new home on "Prime Earth" because burgers and Bendis and gofuckyourselfforcomplainingyouracist. Except Jessica Drew and the Ultimates because...uh..
Thats it. Its not a reboot, everything else is the same, continuity is still in place from before Secret Wars, take it or leave it, I thought it was a great event, though maybe not enough to disrupt the entire Marvel line for half a year, but at least it wasn't as bad as Convergence.
>>78978644 I don't think its been mentioned, but Old Man Logan, Squadron Supreme and others who escaped still remember being from other Earths, and the incursions, so I don't see why only Miles would be wiped.
Currently 616 Peter is busy being a CEO and the International Spider-man. Miles is the Avengers/NYC Spider-man.
Dunno. But it generates more buzz than if it was Roz. Comics companies have been replacing established heroes since the fucking silver age. Sometimes it sticks. Sometimes it doesn't. There's really no difference between Jane becoming Thor and Barry Allen becoming the Flash or Bucky becoming Cap. Except Jane is a woman.
is that some sort of shield to protect her from criticism? because she does have a special snowflake halo around her that ive never seen a legacy character have. hell captain falcon started off at axis
Nope. Pointing out this story has been done so many times it's a trope of the genre and medium. Only difference this time is a woman is the replacement hero. Suddenly autists are all like NOT MUH THOR. Eric Masterson was just as shit at being Thor. No one bitched then.
I meant Barry a back in the Silver Age when he replaced Jay Garrick. Literally that's how long this has been happening for. Except now it's women & non-whites as the replacement heroes since the market has changed from the 1960s and suddenly now autists are crying about it as if it's a new thing. Kek.
>>78979095 Isn't Hickman taking a break from writing for Marvel for a while anyway?
You and I both know that if Slott isn't writing Spider-Man (Silver Surfer isn't a high enough seller to matter), he wouldn't have a job at Marvel. The guy is a complete hack and an utter douchebag on social media. If he was writing anyone else, he'd have been fired ages ago.
I'm old I remember it well. People didn't bitch and cry and whine about SJW conspiracies and their precious comics characters being stolen by minorities. The closest thing was those autists not wanting Hal HEAT or something. And it wasn't near the level of facepalm as the people who bitch about CapFalcon and Whor
>>78979130 Yeah, but it's worth remembering that Slott fucking loves Spider-man. He's passed on higher paying jobs before just so he can continue writing Spider-man. It has nothing to do with money and more to do with writing Spider-man being his dream since he was like 4 years old and he will NEVER give it up.
>>78979013 No, Franklin does the imagining. Reed is really that creative. Franklin imagines it, Reed uses the Beyonders' powers (with Owen acting as the conduit) to turn the universes that Franklin imagines into full blown universes, then Owen splits off a piece of himself to anchor the universes together into a unified multiverse.
So, we have >the Ultimates universe destroyed - save some members (like Miles). >The Richards family gone/written away. Reed has the power of the Beyonders now? >Ben and Johnny are operating in separate factions (GotG and Avengers). >Doom's disfigured face has been made whole. >Molecule Man is no longer the battery or power source of Doom's universe >Also, a bunch of people died (but when is that ever permanent?)
yes it was. there were more people reading comics then. seeing people getting heated over not muh thor happened in real time. and honestly, people are much more accepting of both thor and cap than they were the other characters.
>>78979307 >Molecule Man is no longer the battery or power source of Doom's universe Eh, he's still the conduit for the Beyonders' powers, it's just that Reed is the one using the powers instead of Doom and he's the anchor that's holding the multiverse together.
>>78979486 >muh Spock Oh fuck off. Spock's favorite hero is Peter Parker. His favorite villain is Doc Ock. He turned Peter into the richest, smartest, most powerful hero on the planet with multiple women fawning over him and the point of Superior Spider-man was that there's no replacing Peter because he's the best suited to be Spider-man. Spider-verse established that 616 Peter is the greatest spider in the multiverse.
No if you look at /pol/tards they are literally Tumblrite SJWs. They're not happy unless they have something to complain about and blame others for their problems. They actually wouldn't buy or pay attention to a Captain White Man and his Aryan heroes book in enough numbers.
/pol/ and tumblr are pretty much identical, flipsides of the same coin. Tell me that 'muh cultural appropriation' and 'muh failure of multiculturalism' aren't literally the same argument and I'll call you a liar.
The seas around Mount Sanity sure are getting choppy.
>>78977935 The world is segregated. Just because you've never left the city you were born in which I am gonna assume is in the USA doesn't mean it's like that anywhere else. Aside from the US, the world is very segregated, that's why you can call someone from Sweden a Swede, or someone from Liberia a Liberian.
It's only in the US and very few other western nations that segregation isn't a thing and pandering to minorities is deemed "cool."
>>78978259 >Was John Walker that well written when he was Captain America? Did you have a shit fit then? When Thor Odinson flat out went missing with no explanation and Eric Masterson took over as Thor for the Marvel Universe did you bitch and whine?
I am pretty sure there was a lot of fanboy whining in both cases. The same was true for Hal Jordan's fans.
Markets aren't. If you're a multinational company you need a product that sells everywhere and appeals to multiple demographics. You also tend to have more than just insecure little white bois working for you.
>>78980622 His Future Foundation is his Fantastic Four. The book just gets renamed half way through and then turned into two books towards the end, but it's all the same run. You can't read one without the other.
>>78981002 >You also tend to have more than just insecure little white bois working for you.
This from the guy who's likely going around the thread shouting racist. And again, you're absolutely wrong. Markets around the world don't diversify their product, they specifically tailor it to their audience in order to sell more.
Do you think Pepsi has commercials with black families enjoying their product being broadcast in Turkey? Or how about an Asian man shopping for electronics on a billboard in Argentina?
That's not how it works, and you're simply displaying your ignorance outside your preconceived notions, especially by being racist.
>Inb4 you can't be racist towards white people! Power x Privilege!
>>78981076 No, Reed convinced MM to give him the power of the Beyonders. Then Franklin imagined up the new universes, and Reed turned them into full blown universes using the Beyonders' powers. The reason 616-8 is exactly the same as 616-7 is because it's the universe that Franklin and Reed are the most intimately familiar with so its the one they were able to remake perfectly.
But yes, everything died. Then Franklin, Reed and Owen created the new multiverse. Any continuity discrepancies are basically Franklin's fault since he's the one imagining them into existence.
>>78981289 >Any continuity discrepancies are basically Franklin's fault since he's the one imagining them into existence.
Are there any continuity discrepancies that weren't around before Secret Wars? Not counting things like Miles being cut-and-pasted in or the uncertainty of the recent past and the Incursions (did they happen? who remembers them?) which was going to be messy even for a God to clean up.
No. That was the point of Black Panther's scene at the end of issue #9. Its a mirror of his stuff from the beginning of Hickman's New Avengers, but instead the rocket actually takes off without an Incursion interfering. Basically showing that Secret Wars itself has been written out of continuity.
>who remembers them?
Who the fuck knows. The final issue of the event did an absolutely abysmal job explain what the fuck is going on with the new 616 status quo. We know literally nothing about it, other than it looks exactly like it previously did, with the addition of Parker Industries randomly plastered across every god damn piece of tech out there.
>>78981645 But if the Incursions didn't happen, then Tony had no reason to make his charts and bigger Avengers to distract Steve. The Hickvengers could have formed anyway, but the Builders had no reason to attack Earth so no Infinity event.
>>78975236 Not a Doom Damn thing. Okay Spider-verse bullshit was undone. But if you hated 2013 continuity, it is the same fucking thing outside of that.
Whatever changes it did at large, for example the ultimate fate of the celestials, and all the super entities is unknown but then again Muhvel won't care to explain because that only sells comics to un-hip nerds.
>>78982778 >This was just mediocre. Nah. It was complete shit. Rarely do you see an event with this much buildup over such a long time that just shits the bed and completely fucks everything (including its own existence) up in the final issue.
>>78982767 I read most of these 4free online, I did buy some of the cooler issues of SW and some tie ins like Siege and Time runs out. I was prepared to dish out money and collect the hardcover editions and omnibus collections in case SW had turned out better, or if Muhvel stopped being fucking cunts.
Superior Foes of Spider-Man was the last time I collected an entire series. Their anger motto is just stupid.
Oh shit. That came about as a consequence of the Incursions, too. Although Black Bolt is such an asshole he'd have done it anyway.
Have they explained what mysterious threat Black Bolt wanted to prepare for by unleashing the Terrigen? Was it just the Incursions, or is there some mysterious thing still out there threatening all of the Inhumans?
>>78982581 not only the spiders are still dead, but all the damage done to the timeline done by people messing with timetravel before SW is still there. Frankil and Reed are shit reality warpers. When David Haller wrote himself out of reality at least he also fixed it to account for him having never existed.
>>78983436 >Although Black Bolt is such an asshole he'd have done it anyway.
But if Reed is re-shaping the universe the way -he- wants, he could just as easily make Blackbolt, you know, not an asshole. But since Reed himself is a gigantic douchebag, he'll keep all of Blackbolt's super dickery.
>>78982887 >>78982942 people don't talk about good comics, but they talk about comics that anger them. Yes people would talk about amazing comics, but doing amazing comics requires amazing writers free of editorial constraint. Anger is just esier to achieve.
>>78983993 That stuff wasn't changed, it naturally developed over the eight months time jump. Peter became Tony Stark 2.0 on his own efforts. The Terrigen mists were always deadly to mutants but it wasn't obvious at first.
Does counter earth still exist? Muties could move there >>78983993 arguably that could have been Owen. He could have decided to make MIles' mentor happy along with everything else because of that burger.
>>78983436 >, or is there some mysterious thing still out there threatening all of the Inhumans? Well Soule suggested some big threat and it might be what they are setting up in uncanny and all new with the sky spears. But back when hickman did it and fraction was on then too, it was just to make more Inhumans because I guess they thought there wasn't enough. They really should have had more lead up to something that effects the entire line this much.
>>78984179 >Peter became Tony Stark 2.0 on his own efforts. Did he? The last we saw of him before Secret Wars was Ghost reking his entire company and him shitting the bed over saving ANY of their research.
>>78984373 He is lucky and iirc his power was killing him anyway by making him old. Most of the other mutants died as well and they could easily say being depowered made them die slower while full fledged mutants get cancer.
>>78984210 Can't just Hyperion or the complete Squad or someone god tier just beat the shit outta Black Bolt? Why didn't Reed obliterate Black Bolt from existence since he is auch a thread to even his own people? Black Bolt makes Namor looks like a good guy.
>>78984398 >What happened to Owen? His primary body (the one holding the beyonders' powers) is hanging out with Reed and the Future Foundation to help remake and explore the multiverse. He's also putting part of himself in each universe to anchor all the universes together so they don't start, y'know, slamming into each other or anything. So technically, there would have to be a 616 Molecule Man still as a result (since the new multiverse requires one in each universe to function).
>And what happened with the Celestials Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
>the Beyonders All dead according to Doom, but the last time Doom said he killed a Beyonder he was wrong so I'd take that with a grain of salt.
>THE Beyonder Dead unless stated otherwise.
>Galactus Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
>and others cosmic entities Brought back by Franklin/Reed/Owen.
>>78984639 Don't tell me Franklin is also a celestial now. So every cosmic entity is back. Are the mapmakers alive too? If they can bring back to life cosmic entities and are fixing everything why they haven't bring back to life the earths that died during the incursions?
>>78984495 1. Reed likes black bolt, they have saved each others asses many times, reed was at his wedding and bb and gang was there for Valeria's birth. Back when the Inhumans were super racist Reed was the exception,.Not to mention illuminati bros. They go way back reed wouldn't erase him. 2. Yeah they find a guy or have a team whip his ass especially now that he is alone. This is actually the first time black bolt has done something like this and the Inhumans have had an ongoing that the fallout could be shown in. I hope something actually comes of it. However seeing how the Inhumans are being pushed if it does happen they make a small event of it and not just have someone walk up and attack him.
>>78984587 >That isn't a real answer. That's just handwaving the issue. Sorry anon that's how plot armor works, it kills everybody except him. Now they can actually say it was because he was a new man but clearly that wasn't in the plans of the writer at the time.
>>78984729 The Mapmakers were just drones created by the beyonders (or more specifically, they were superadaptoids infected by a Beyonder-made virus that turned them into Mapmakers), and with no Beyonders to make a new set for the new multiverse, they wouldn't be back either.
>>78984928 -Black Bolt: Johnny I gotta go. DON'T TOUCH MY WIFE IN MY ABSENCE OR I'LL REKT YOUR ASS (minutes later) Oh I forget my keys... Johnny: Black Bolt! look pal it's not what it looks like Medusa: Yes it is
>>78984778 because SW was at the end of the day just a fantastic 4 story and an excuse to bring miles over to 616 earth. It doesn't affect anything else. The only thing that would be really changed is that the F4 have taken the place of Merlyn as omniversal guardians. Speaking of which a series about the future foundation exploring the multiverse would be quite interesting
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