So a normie pseudo geek from my class was talking about The Killing

>>78905156
People are stupid and like shock-value stuff even when it makes no sense. The killing joke is a story about proving the Joker wrong when his thesis is "everyone is capable of murder and insanity when pushed hard enough".
Gordon's not broken, and Batman doubts but is obviously not broken either. I mean, no more than he usually is.

>>78905156
>why people believe this?

Because Grant Morrison said that's how it ends and "it's so obvious because of the title", but you can read Moore's script and see that the ending is entirely ambiguous.

Retards

>>78905261
The script isn't ambiguous, it doesn't even imply that Batman kills him, why would anyone assume it?

>>78905156
Because the laughing stops abruptly. The last two panels are just empty of any form of sounds of dialogue.

>>78905325
or*

Joker shooting Barbara turned her from a retired sidekick to a useful assistant Batman should be thanking him.

>>78905156
I don't have an opinion on neither, but what does Batman do in the last panel. Did he just punch him in the chest, Goes in for a hug, fixes his collar?

>>78905308
Cause it was done when Moore was coming up with ways to end superheroes and completed at the time he was angry at DC.

>>78905156
According to Alan Moore it just represents a moment of lucidity between two nutcases.

>>78905382
He leans his hand on his shoulder, a typical pose to portray losing your serious grip laughing, like putting two hands on your knees.
Just a popular body language form in drawn media.

>>78905398
Didnt Moore said recently that Batman had indeed killed joker?

>>78905467
No.

>>78905325
That's just the last panels mirroring the comic's first ones and bringing it back to the beginning.
Like... Seriously, man.

>>78905156
The last panel there with Batman putting his hands on Joker's shoulders sort of looks like he's going to choke him. That added to Batman killing Joker and viceversa being a recurring theme in the book makes it make sense (of course the other theme is capturing the joker by law vs stepping down to his level so that ma render this moot). Besides it wasn't supposed to be canon, so it's not that unusual of an ending if it had stuck.
I personally think Batman choked or tried to choke Joker, but it's just my personal interpretation of how the scene's playing out, which is just ambiguous enough to give room to that sort of speculation- I won't argue that's absolutely what's happening because I don't have enough evidence other that how I choose to read the book.
It's similar to the "was it rape" thing with Babs, we are shown what DC and the Comics Code would allow to show so there's room for speculation based on the limitations of the work, even if the author outright said "no, that's stupid"

>>78906330
I wasn't stating my opinion, just relaying why others believe Batman killed the Joker.

But if you want my opinion, I don't believe he killed the joker.

>>78905156
Because ambiguous endings are subject to multiple interpretations. You are autistic.

>>78905156
the light of the lantern is turned off, he fell to his death.

Alan moore wanted the story to end with joker death, thats why the story was not canon for the longest time, but once they decided to use oracle from it they stuck with it.

Your friend wasnt wrong, you are the fake geek here.
How does it feel to be a faker? You fake nerd. Pose for a lot of facebook shots with your comic books?

Batman did kill the Joker.

Batman did not kill the Joker.

Hypertime.

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see the last panels? They are about the joke Joker was telling, batman has turned off the light.

>>78907015
the classic colors are so much better, holy fuck

>>78907087
it's more of a matter of the pencils, the colors, and the paper it was printed on all being made cohesively when the book was put out, and the second one being "we have better paper! let's fuck all with the planning that went into it and just go into modern, more realistic colors"

though to be fair, when car lights are yellow like that i expect the colors of the original

>>78906368
The hand is nowhere near the Joker's neck.

>>78905156
Because Grant Morrison said so

>>78907015
So Batman kills him right after he offers his help to bring him back from insanity, the Joker tells a harmless, non-creepy joke and Batman snaps his neck while laughing his ass off?
That's seriously the end people picture?

>>78907372
well the whole point of the joke is that neither of them will ever trust each other and that neither of them can ever "escape" in the first place

>>78907372
its the end shown here , not the one people picture as the final killing joke between them but the one that closes this.
He tells the joke and snaps batman. Batman has turned the light to help him cross over, but lights are out by the end.

It mirrors joker joke perfectly.

The laughter just fades so they can focus on the puddle, ending the comic the same way it began.

Bookends.

>>78907015
The laughing stops and the light disappears because Batman throws him in the police car and it drives away

>>78905156
Batman casually leaning against Joker for support just feels so wrong and out of character to me. That's why I think Bolland was trying to depict it as him killing him, and I'll continue to believe it until he says otherwise.

>>78907497
Batman doesn't turn off any light. That's simply ending the story with the rain falling as it began. If Batman kills the Joker the Joker wins; not in a metaphysical kind of way, in a "Gordon literally spouts that if we don't bring him in alive, the Joker wins" kind of way.

>>78907423
The joke states that one of the inmates cares for the other and wants to help him get away; he does trust him. The other is too far gone.

>>78907372
if he doesnt then can you imagine Barbara? "Is it true? That after he shot my spine the cops just found you laughing with Joker?"

>>78907234
What bugs me is that Brian Bolland said that the colors are closer to what he intended, when he knows damn well no one was coloring in Photoshop back in '88. If he colored it with some Doc Martin dyes I could understand, but he's redoing art that was meant to be colored a certain way in a way that wasn't considered n the whole process.

A lot of the style in older comics is based on the type of paper it was being printed on, the coloring method, the printing method, etc. Is disingenuous to try and color them like modern stuff.

>>78907598
http://comicsalliance.com/batman-killing-joke-ending-grant-morrison-alan-moore-brian-bolland-dc/

I disagree with you but here are some comic alliances guys that agree with you.

>>78907565
Are you saying Bollard thinks you can strangle people by holding their shoulders?

>>78907598
The point of the joke is that both Batman and Joker can be either of the inmates, depending on who's point of view you take it from

Batman can "free Joker from insanity"
Joker can "free Batman from sanity"

They both "care" about each other and they both could never trust each other. They're also both too stubborn to escape their own personal shackles or perception

>>78907765
I'm saying it takes a tenth of a second to move your hands from someone's shoulders to their neck.

>>78907628
Again, her own father asks Batman to arrest the Joker proper after he's showered with naked pictures of her shot, bloody body. The Joker's whole plan is to make Gordon and Batman snap; he doesn't give a shit about his own death.
The whole point of the end is to create tension on whether Batman will truly lose it in the end, because he's been taken to the edge. If Batman snaps, it's all pointless.

>>78907779
So escaping a mental asylum could mean escaping TO insanity?

>>78907015
But either man could be the man with the light.
Batman wants Joker to give up his murderous ways.
Joker wants Batman to give into his lunacy.
But neither dare cross the light because it'd meant he death of them, albeit for a reason they're not actually aware of
>>78907372
Well the reading could be Batman's realization that Joker is truly incurable.
>>78907868
Not pointless, it simply means Batman loses.

>>78907971
Well anyone who is truly insane doesn't believe they are insane.

Both Batman and the Joker are insane

When did you give up on using your own intellect and instead of interpreting a piece of art you started to parrot others?

>>78905308
>The script isn't ambiguous

The script is not what is being discussed. The comic is.

>>78908126
The joker is very much aware that he's insane and argues as much in the comic itself. There simply is no way to fit him as the inmate with the flashlight.

>>78908194
The comic is even less ambiguous. The only reason this is in controversy is because there was a story of the script stating at some point that Batman killed the Joker. That story is fake but people don't care.

>>78908233
sorry, people form their own opinions on art!

Let's all just discuss the script, Tweets and interviews and get what happens from that.

Who needs the comic?

Different people interpreting it differently is not a controversy.

>>78908288
That's the very definition of controversy, moron.

"a prolonged public dispute, debate, or contention; disputation concerning a matter of opinion."

>>78906937
Look, faggy, I could totally accept being about Batman killing Joker. I think it would make a better non canonical story, but all of that would be assumed on panels we don't see. The panels we DO see does not indicate any of that, at all.
Your poetical interpretation can be just a visual callback to the start, it can mean Batman fell temporarily to his madness, which made him understand Joker for a second, share a laugh, not hate him, it could be anything.
There's no crack onomatopoeia, nothing. And it would go against everything that is Batman and that was stated in the book itself.
So Gordon wins, still rational, even Batman says that to Joker, but Batman loses to that?

My friend is a poser douche because he wears beanies, thick rim glasses, curly moustache, mushroom for Mario tattoos, checkered shirts, vegan, talks about coffee all the time and writes a comic about a self insert that is a serial killer of hot women. You don't need to defend him, unless you too are like that and it gets to your ego. In that case go back to Instagram, faggot.

>>78905156
they also say that Batgirl was raped simply because "the joker striped her naked", even when that's the exact same thing he does to gordon.

what does it matter, serious house on serious earth is a better telling of the same general story

>>78908486
Nah, it really isn't. A serious house is my favorite comic book, but it can't be compared.

>>78908658
I don't know, they both explore batman's 'whose really the crazy one here'

makes sense in my head

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>>78908288
This is so stupid.


OP, if you are an edgelord that buy things from Hot Topic, you will probably believe that Batman snapped and proved that Joker was right, but just because you think that it is soooo kool, and like a real person would act.

Nothing really indicates it, its just a urban legend that people choose to believe.

>>78905156
desu, I thought Joker was saying the joke genuinely and that Batman was actually moved by it.

>>78909243
And I continue: Moore has a good opinion on humanitty, and integrity of people in the face of horror. You can read it on many of his other capeshit stories,like "For The man who had everything". This interpretation of Batman proving Joker right would be out of place.

>>78905156
I say he died at the end cause I am tired of Joker being every fucking where.