When was the last time the difference between the Big Two was so large? I mean, quality wise.
The announcement of Civil War II seems to have cemented Marvel's downward spiral to absolute mediocrity. DC, otherwise, seems to finally stabilized itself after New 52's messy launch. They now have a considerable number of quality books, with a consistent diversity of styles. Marvel now is about all Bendis, gimmicks and relaunches.
I have to say, Marvel have the Mouse's protection and a tonne of safe, risk-free decompressed books.
I do prefer DC's current output, but they could use better cross-title coherence and WAY better marketing.
I find it funny that Marvel's meaning of diversity is just printing out books with race-changed characters while DC actually has a diverse output of comic books with interesting characters regardless of race yet theyre not the ones making headlines on clickbait sjw pages and get the lowest sales. DC's entire publicity team is retarded.
>Prez is over
>All Star Section Eight is over
>Omega Men has shit sales, will get cancelled at 12
>Midnighter has shit sales, might get cancelled at 12 too
I don't know senpai, DC's near future doesn't look that great either. All their good books are with C-listers that will get cancelled soon, while their A-list books like Wonder Woman and Flash are mediocre to shit.
Last year I started to sympathise a lot with DC, because all the shit that they get when they are really putting effort on the comics.
>JLU under Jeff Parker never had a chance
>Gotham by Midnight is cancelled and now DC has fuck all going on in their magic side apart from Constantine which is just okay, and Dr. Fate which is boring and is going to be cancelled soon in all likelihood
It's not fair.
>Being a DC fan who's not really into the A-list characters is suffering.
It's not really a good time to be into A-listers either, Batman and Superman are divisive, Wonder Woman and Flash are just bad, Green Lantern is middling
Some of the peripheral Batbooks are good but Bruce doesn't show up in them much
Marvel has been sellout hype-men since their inception. They've been wanking moviefags since the first Hulk TV show, too. If you look back through comics history, Marvel has always been at the forefront of mediocrity, gimmicks and lowest-common denominator appeal. Sure, they've always put out quality stuff as well, but the business side has always been focused on following trends and shilling non-comics properties. You're only just now noticing it.
DC has been much more diverse and adaptable over its history, albeit slow. They look at what Marvel is doing and take their time to try to avoid their mistakes, and ultimately release more high-quality and even innovative comics (amongst a sea of shit but that's just to keep up with the monthlies), but by the time they do the trend has already been run into the ground by Marvel and only hardcore enthusiasts are still paying attention.
It's actually a direct result of the late 70's seeing a lot of people who made their names at Marvel jump over to DC in order to help "modernize" them in the same way. Most of them then either left when Marvel continued to get all the attention or just quit comics for the most part.
>DC's entire publicity team is retarded for not pandering to sjws
>be into A-list characters, get cursed with lots of mediocre runs, editorial meddling, crossovers and events
>be into less popular characters, get cursed with cancellation and not getting an ongoing for years, which may or may not be good
Maybe comic books were a mistake.
Secret Six actually recently had a big arc trying to pick up the slack of the magic side.
They make note that Constantine and Dr. Fate are conspicuously missing, obviously because they have their own books.
Nah, you just gotta be flexible and remember that even the worst shit that happens can always be fixed by a good writer who gives a damn about the character.
I mean, look at Hawkman. Editorial completely fucked over his character to the point where it was considered a toxic asset and NO ONE could use him for years. Then Johns stepped in and managed to fix it and make him a really good character again.
Really? Neat, I'll have to look into that. I fucking love DC's magic shenanigans and I haven't had anything to scratch that itch now that Demon Knights and Phantom Stranger are both long gone, and Gotham by Midnight followed after them.
Ah so THAT'S where Blue Devil went too.
I wish he and Black Lightning got a series together, that was a really fun arc of DC Universe Presents.
So should I pick up Secret Six from the beginning to get the story?
>Constantine: The Hellblazer
>DC Comics: Bombshells
>Robin: Son of Batman
>We Are Robin
>Legend of Wonder Woman
How does DC get people to actually notice that they have diversity?
It's a great series, if you don't get triggered over the one trans character whose tranniness is mentioned like twice over 10 issues.
DC is reprinting a trade of the original Black Lightning series so hopefully that bodes well for some future appearances.
Also definitely start from the beginning of Secret Six, if you haven't read them I suggest you go back and get Simone's original run of it because it's one of the best comics nobody talks about. But it's where a lot of people grew to love characters like Catman, Bane, Cheshire and Ragdoll who nobody really gave a shit about at the time.
I will warn that the first three or so issues of the New 52 reboot version are very slow. But I finally got hooked recently when
Elastic-Man and Sue Dibny get reunited for the first time in the New 52.
Get a succesful Cinematic Universe.
Most of the people on tumblr/twitter who started reading comics are MCU fans and they don't want to try anything other than Marvel. The console war mentality is real.
Announce them on the View and make it sound like they're replacing other characters with the diverse ones even if they aren't so that they can make controversy happen
>MIDNIGHTER is GAY BATMAN
>NEW ROBIN to be BLACK, ASIAN, LATINO, ARABIC
>SECRET SIX is like JUSTICE LEAGUE but with a bisexual and a gender queer!
>if you haven't read them I suggest you go back and get Simone's original run of it because it's one of the best comics nobody talks about. But it's where a lot of people grew to love characters like Catman, Bane, Cheshire and Ragdoll who nobody really gave a shit about at the time.
I HAVE read that series actually, thanks to a /co/ storytime thread and then found some of the trade volumes on sale for cheap at my LCS shortly afterwards.
I dunno man, I'm getting a lot of nostalgia from this shit right here. I loved the 90s.
Fucking Liefeld is making a Deadpool OGN while Image runs train on the industry and DC did an entire month of gate-fold covers.
Mother fucking ANGELA has a comic.
The 90s are BACK and I'm fucking loving it.
>marvel's had the largest market share for decades
>this one new thing is the reason
>really caring about the comics company's profitability, rather than writers or characters
Don't be that shitty, anon.
>When was the last time the difference between the Big Two was so large? I mean, quality wise.
Yeah I know right? Marvel keeps trying to fuck up their line harder and harder, yet they still manage to be so ridiculously better than DC that it's hard to believe a company can fuck up as much as DC is doing right now
Or here, because fuck your dumb fanboy bullshit.
> sum(comicsnov15$Est..sales[comicsnov15$Publisher == 'Marvel'])
> sum(comicsnov15$Est..sales[(comicsnov15$Publisher == 'Marvel') & !(comicsnov15$Comic.book.Title%in% starwars)])
> sum(comicsnov15$Est..sales[comicsnov15$Publisher == 'DC'])
Marvel still outselling DC like crazy, even without the Star Wars license. Does it matter?
>>78869622 has the right idea.
I really don't get the hype either.
Girls are hot, but other than that it's pretty unremarkable. Just having cheesecake doesn't make me go "holy shit GOAT comic", I need more than that to really enjoy a book.
There's a difference between raising awareness of diversity to appeal to a new audience, and being absolutely cram-it-in-your-face retarded about it.
Then again, its comics. We've always gotten extremes and 'one or the other' bullshit because moderate, middle-ground shit just doesn't sell to normies and brand loyalist fanboys.
You're not a sellout if you never pretended to have integrity. You're a salesman.
Gimmicks are what you call hooks and premises and incentives if you don't like them. If Stan hadn't barged into Martin Goodman's office and pitched him a laundry list of "gimmicks", marvel would have gone bankrupt in the 60s, and Superman comics would still be about "Superman's Hardest Day", where Clark has to arrange for everyone to only see the uncracked side of the superman robot he has standing in for him. And what are all of dc's reboots if not the king of iffy gimmicks?
I love both companies comics- or, I did until they got rid of all my favorites- but they made each other better, and both have been putting out a steady stream of hot garbage since the beginning.
That is roughly the opinion of any grown, rational human being who pays attention to big two comics. Fanboying one company that hard is embarassing. Stop embarassing yourself.
>tries to talk rationally on /co/ in a company wars thread
I guess the idiot was really me
I'm not saying either is inherently bad. It's just that there seem to be a lot of people suddenly realizing that behind the creators are companies focused on making money. And DC has always sold itself as a little more "for the fans" than Marvel, although the past decade that's been more "for the fanboys" than fans.
No, which I've found kinda strange. It's not yet clear whether he's totally undercover or whether this is just what he looks like now.
I'd be surprised if he didn't go back to classic style soon, though. Simone has always been a bit of a purist in terms of continuity, and ignored the changes to every other character in every way except in terms of design.
No, Stan called up all his boys from the Atlas/Timely days, Jack being one of them, after deciding it was time to go gimmick-crazy.
Hahaha no. I hope you're just riffing on the credit wars, and not suggesting that Jack burst into his boss's boss's office to unfire himself. That wasn't jack at all. Maybe Bill Everett, or later Jim Steranko, but it was definitely Stan that actually did do it.
>Stan called up all his boys from the Atlas/Timely days, Jack being one of them, after deciding it was time to go gimmick-crazy.
Hi, The Sheeple. Still sucking Stan's dick, I see.
When is ''Marvel fucking sucks lol DC is le best meme'' will die?
Contest of Champions
Captain America: Sam Wilson
Totally Awesome Hulk
Starbrand and Nightmask
Howard the Duck
These are all good books.
Jesus. /co/ is not only immature, they also don't read comics.
But we already knew about this don't we?
>Contest of Champions
>Captain America: Sam Wilson
This was okay but already delayed.
>Totally Awesome Hulk
I liked this.
>Starbrand and Nightmask
>Howard the Duck
It's not bad.
Best ANAD, still worse than his DC books.
No, he has an actual knowledge of what the characters of those men were like.
If you knew fuck all about Jack Kirby's personality and character, rather than having just jumped on the Stan hate bandwagon, you'd know that story with Jack in the office would be ridiculous. Jack let Stan take advantage of him for decades, but now suddenly he's the out of control rebel firebrand and salesman? Please.
Jack was quiet and reserved, imaginative and a font of talent, and more likely to be passive aggressive than boisterous.
IMO they both have a pretty sizeable chunk of books that are readable/good, but there's only a small handful of standout titles and currently it feels like DC has more of those than Marvel does
also a lot of Marvel books feel like bland interchangeable trash, DC's bad books feel less by the numbers
I'm biased though, I only read two Marvel books but I keep up with 10+ DC ones. Marvel's lineup as a whole just doesn't feel that appealing
What Marvel books are you reading?
I have Vision, Hercules, Squadron Supreme and Scarlet Witch on my pull. I only really like Vision though, the rest are alright. Not sure what to think of SW yet, but I want it to be good because I like Wanda and I think it has potential.
>lol at shit I don't like
>Approval of shit I like
What worthless post and opinion. Either go and explain why you dislike a title or don't post at all. This is borderline shit posting.
Too things DC is in desperate need of
1) More Magic
2) More Cosmic
Because they only really have three representatives of both (Zantana, Dr. Fate, Hellblazer/ New Gods, Green Lantern, Legion Of Super-Heroes)
Only Vision really feels like something different imo. Scarlet Witch too, but I wasn't very impressed with the first issue. I appreciate the fact that it's tonally different from other female-led Marvel books though.
Marvel has too many quirky funny teen books, jesus. I'm not the type to scream "stop writing comics for people that are not me!!!", but they're going pretty overkill with this style.
>Because they only really have three representatives of both (Zantana, Dr. Fate, Hellblazer/ New Gods, Green Lantern, Legion Of Super-Heroes)
What do you even mean by this? Zatanna doesn't have an ongoing, she never really had a long running ongoing in her entire career. The Omega Men are currently running but you're not counting them so...what are you trying to say here?
Bravo for getting me to bother at all, Stan.
DC should really play to their strengths and stay away from cosmic. I know there have been a few good cosmic titles but it's mostly shit. Magic has always been where DC excels and where Marvel fails while Cosmic is where Marvel excels and DC fails
SW doesn't have a different tone, it reads like regular cape. There's even a part next issue where you get the brilliant conversation of
>Why can't you just make your headache go away with magic
>Because magic always has a price, but I'm sure nobody knew that already
It's very amateurish, and considering that Robinson wants to take the title into a more mystic direction he needs to get a better grip on that tone
What exactly are the problems with the comics he listed?
Hercules was a fresh take on the character with a great supporting cast.
Spider-man 2099 is a perfectly ok entry for the character even if it is pushing a bit the status quo from web warriors.
Starband and Nightmask while not revolutionary or new is perfect for what it is, a super hero comic book about friends copying with a new turn to their strange lives in a more "real" setting.
Totally Awesome Hulk is Cho acting like a smug asshole while punching a monster of the week, harmless fun that knows exactly what it is and does it fine.
Pf, who cares about Green Lantern? the current run on Omega Men? Legion of Super heroes, LEGION Twilight, Hawkworld, REBELS...can't you see, these titles have never crossover over in one big event so it's shit.
>Tell me books you like, and I'll greentext lol after all of those but a couple, too.
Justice League (For Darkseid War, which isn't great but admittedly pretty goony fun. So I'll give you a free LOL to start off.)
Legend of Wonder Woman (Which you can LOL me for as well, but it's totally cute and I'm buying it largely for my kid daughter so I have no regrets.)
Fuck yeah. DC was always more diverse. They created
>First black hero
>First gay couple in history of comics
>First hero team to address racial issues
People who worship that MARVEL cock needs to go to a gas chamber
Please tell me what is so diverse about DC that Marvel is not doing, because I'm just not seeing it.
I see Marvel having more, higher profile books starring minorities and women and more books written by minorities and women, and more gay male leads at DC, but I'm prepared to be enlightened.
>Either go and explain why you dislike a title or don't post at all.
Please, you want me to go through that long list of garbage and list why it's garbage?
>This is borderline shit posting.
Nah, I'm sure it's over.
>starring minorities and women just because and more books written by minorities and women just because
>tell me what is so diverse about DC that Marvel is not doing
Well, they began in the 1940s and 1950s...
A Zatanna ongoing would be a really good idea, with the massive popularity of Harley Quinn and Starfire.
They had a whole Dark line, but it sold like hot garbage so it's all kill now except for Constantine.
They also really need to fix their Green Lantern line, it's fucking embarrassing that they could let what was once one of their biggest properties get this bad. That Corps mini coming out is a good start, but they need to get Taylor on GL full-time, get Tom King on GLC, and then leave Sinestro as it is.
The BIGGEST problem with DC right now is that Flash, GL, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are all trash right now, and those are the ones that HAVE to be doing well so that the smaller stuff like Prez and Omega Men can flourish without worrying about sales too much. They're more than ever before banking entirely on Batman and Superman right now.
>SECRET SIX is like JUSTICE LEAGUE but with a bisexual and a gender queer!
Wait, are we talking about Catman? Is he actually bisexual for real now? I seem to previously recall Simone saying on Twitter that she always wrote him as bisexual but DC wouldn't let her in the original run of Secret Six.
nigga, I support Ewing and all but that shit it's still bland as fuck and the Miss America wanking is awfull
meh book, only saving grace is Cho's art
still haven't read it
this one it's actually good, mainly because the it's the only book with a diferent tone from everything else, wich says a lot about the current state of Marvel
you can say anything you wan't about DC, at least there's variet on the kind of books they put out
>mfw current state of the Big Two
Looking at sales, only Batman seems to be flourishing.
Not to shit over current Superman, I'm enjoying for what it is the current storyline and it's not even that bad sales wise, but still I'd like to see a bigger push for him.
Aquaman is actually pretty solid, I still think it al reduces to the fact that DC can't into marketing
probably the movies will help, but it all depends on how will BvS and SS fare
>more books written by minorities and women
What minorities/women do they have?
I know Marvel's got
Cloonan coming up on Punisher
the two chicks writing Captain Marvel
and if Vertigo counts there's Risso, Lauren Beukes, Holly Black, Meghan Hetrick
I mean Superman has never been as good a seller as Batman, at least not in this decade. Batman is on the level of Spider-Man in that it's just always going to sell well.
Superman's line is doing well relatively, though. When Johns was writing, GL would usually top it, now nobody gives a shit. It's sad, the characters that are supposed to get consistent and safe sales numbers are languishing.
I have an acquaintance who, when his baby was born, went out and bought the new Amazing Spider-Man #1 that came after Superior ended. His plan was that by the time the kid was 18 this issue would be worth millions.
These are the kinds of people that make every #1 do twice as well as the following issue.
>Marvel has more women and minorities damn it!
>Um, no. Here are example-
>This means they're automatically good, amirite?
Not sure if retarded or just a shitposter. Wait, they're one and the same.
>I have an acquaintance who, when his baby was born, went out and bought the new Amazing Spider-Man #1 that came after Superior ended. His plan was that by the time the kid was 18 this issue would be worth millions.
Wow..... so 2 years tops the industry's gonna crash because of idiots like these right?
No it wouldn't. The people that buy the Injustice comics buy it because it's an Injustice comic, and even if they were to branch out, they'd look for characters, not other comics from the writer of the comic they just read.
Yep, this is true.
/co/ doesn't realize that the average comic book fan is a characterfag that doesn't really care about writers. It's why Spiderman/Batman/X-Men etc will always sell no matter the quality of the book.
It's not gonna crash but it's gonna be bad, and its Marvel's fault. ANAD doing poorly is proof that you can't just keep repackaging series with #1's and expect sales to stay up, it's slash-and-burn economics. Even clueless moviefags can only be roped back in so many times.
Frankenstein was mediocre, so was Teen Titans earth One, and JLD was shit. Green Arrow was also good, as were Sweet Tooth, Trillium and Essex County. His Descender right now is good, but his Hawkeye is not very good, The Nobody was just okay and his Superboy was really damn good, Future's End was meh. JLU wasn't good, but not total shit either.
I know that, but I really think putting a huge INJUSTICE logo on the book would get a lot of those people back. Every casual I know talks about how Injustice is better than the main DCU because it's "simpler" or some stupid shit. When I tell them something is "like Injustice" they usually are more interested in picking it up.
What part of "nobody cares about the writer" don't you understand? People that have been reading comics for 5+ years don't care about the writer much, but someone that's only read Injustice? To make matters worse you mentioned that these people prefer the Injustice universe as a whole, so...I really don't see how you think Taylor has any star power.
First arc of Hawkeye was good, its hes theme - childhood and relationships. but whats going in new arc - i dont understand. All-color mandarin, twenty years later, wtf? Its very strange after tempo of first arc
Well, he front-loaded a bunch and when he came onto the title claimed to have scripts more-or-less done for about two years' worth of material. So, while he has left to become a Marvel exclusive, there'll still be more stuff he has already written coming out for a bit, but it truncates the possibility of long, extended single-writer run with the character.
The book exists because the title character was a MCU sight-gag that Marvel hoped and still hopes will become popular because it is popular, like Deadpool.
It's literally a meme book.
So let me see if I follow:
Howard the Duck is a largely forgotten character from a satirical 70s comic
Howard the Duck gets a cameo in Guardians of the Galaxy and sees a surge in popularity
Marvel publishes a new Howard the Duck series, because they'd be stupid not to
That's a meme comic
That's dumb. The idea that meme comics are a thing is dumb.
Marvel is making and pushing heroes that are marketable on their own that the public has a point of reference for and can easily accept/remember.
Black Spider-Man (everybody knows Spider-Man)
Black Captain America (ditto)
Muslim Ms. Marvel (has the company name right there)
Most of those DC titles have no widespread name recognition, and the ones that do are Batman supporting characters.
Yeah, I don't really think that DC's market share would be higher. I was just wondering if I was going to get banned again if I held the opposite viewpoint.
The difference is, like Antwan and Guardians of the Galaxy, once the trend is done, the interest is entirely done. Batman will almost always be popular. Howard the Duck has a series because it's a meme. It's like how we all say "you're a big guy/for you". That's a meme, a little bit that might permeate through the culture for a while and then it will go away. It isn't a lasting impression.
It's a fad. A meme. And it's just barely a meme.
That's what happens when you don't hire a bunch of fucking upper middle class hipster yuppie fuckhole fedora tipping beard combing scarf twirling cumbiscuits to staff your entire fucking company.
Anon what you fail to realize is nobody wants to talk about whats right, they just want to bitch about whats wrong.
Its why on the news you don't hear alot of good feeling stories or how the FDA made sure our burgers didn't contain cyanide.
If DC wants to make the news they have to white wash the comic, not do things right.
Things changed in December, though. Marvel new books are free falling, while DC books remain stable.
>tfw this is true
>tfw history is bound to repeat itself and you can't wait to see it all crash and burn.
Guys, it's fucking scary how we are basically looking at the 90s status quo when it comes to comics.
Hell, Image is still desperate to be the "cool kids on the block" that do things that "the BIG 2 wouldn't even dare to thinka about!!!", but now being "cool and edgy" apparently means publishing furry porn instead of over the top action shlock. They still think they are much more mature than they really are, like before they just thought that having racism/rape/death in their comics meant that they were mature and deep, but now they think that they are "smart" and can "talk about this issues in a interesting way", but end up failing hard and being cringy as fuck, like in Bitch Planet
I'm sure he was banned because the mods are tired of idiots. DCshills? Seriously? I'm glad he was banned and I wish they'd do it again. It doesn't contribute anything to the conversation.