Why doesn't X-23 get any crap for taking the Wolverine mantle (compare to Jane-Thor)?
Her claim to the mantle is far weaker than Janes as she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
A few reasons.
A) Thor is a name. Jane could have been Jane Foster, God of Thunder, but they needed the name recognition or the book wouldn't have sold. Wolverine is a title. Laura didn't call herself James or Logan.
B) X-23 already had the powers and abilities of Wolverine. She didn't need them bestowed upon her like Jane.
C) X-23 is (or was) demonstrably different in personality from Wolverine. Jane doesn't really have a distinct personality anyway.
D) X-23 was established as a superpowered person since her inception. Jane was just a love interest. They didn't even go the Spider-Gwen route and make it an alternate Jane who got Mjolnir through some plot convenience. She just got it 'cause plot I guess.
E)People are more upset that Taylor has just thrown out X-23's previous characterization in favor of her just being a "normal teenage girl" than they are at her wearing the yellow spandex.
F) Thor didn't ever really seem like a legacy character. He's not a superhero, he's a god. He didn't have sidekicks or wards or anything. Wolverine was practically crawling with little girls and angry boys who all wanted him to pay attention to him, so it's a natural progression that when Logan got tired of this shit or finally died for realsies that one of those little brats would take up the mantle.
G) Jane hadn't really been a part of Thor's story for a while, so it's weird to bring her back into the spotlight just to hand her the hammer.
H) Isn't Jane just doing the same shit Thor did but now with a vagina? Even though Taylor's made Laura sound like samey garbage, at least he's exploring a story that's distinct from Wolverine's usual fare .
>bluhh bluhh I'm a retard please fuck my face
as you wish
Because we don't care about a woman taking up the mantle. Nobody would give a shit if Sif was running around with Mjolnir having excellent adventures.
We give a shit because Whor is extremely badly written. Everything to do with her being Whor, from her being worthy to the way her books are basically long tirades about how awesome it is that there's a female Thor now, is shoddily written. She is forced to the maximum degree.
X-23 already has Wolverine's powers and was pretty close to him before he copped it. But you'll notice, we complain about bad writing in her book, too - every thread about the new Wolverine is basically a few hundred people saying how poorly written she is now and how she's like a totally new, boring character. BUT, her being Wolverine doesn't feel as forced, and isn't given as much inane focus as the fact that Jane is Thor is, so we don't complain about that.
No it's not, that'd be like Sabretooth becoming Wolverine. This is more like Jean-Paul Valley taking up the mantle. OH WAIT, THAT HAPPENED, but you don't know because you DON'T READ COMICS.
Bane becoming Batman? Ha! What a preposterous suggestion!
>Bane is a test tube baby of Bruce Wayne's
It's more like if Batman had some kind of genetic descendant that was created independent of his will who took up his mantle.
But that would never happen because only Marvel would do such a thing, right?
X-23 and Wolverine used to have some cute and sad times together.
>Bane is a test tube baby of Bruce Wayne's
WAIT, SINCE FUCKING WHEN? I'll admit I gave up on DC after Nu52 turned out to be nothing but shitty failed comic run after shitty failed comic run. And after the disasterpiece that was The Culling, I gave up on DC altogether.
Is this actually a thing now? I mean, I heard that the Lantern Emotional energy was now a fossil-fuel allegory and is a finite resource, but Bane being Batman's test-tube baby?
Is this actually a thing, or just retarded enough to be a Nu52 storyline?
It was her second origin mini to explain how she got to the X-Men. He doesn't appear until the last issue to connect it to the beginning of Kyle/Yost's New X-Men.
The problem is that it's already OOC for her to pick up the mantle and just be "girl wolverine", so people tend to hate the writers who suggested this idea more than the character. And Wolverine is dead so who cares? Old Man Logan being in 616 is another fuck up, the best part about the book was the world building. So all we have is just an old wolverine.
No, you misread the post.
>dumbass says X-23 taking the mantle after Wolverine is like Bane taking the mantle from Batman
>anon sarcastically responds that for that to be true, Bane would have to be a clone or test tube baby of Bruce Wayne's, as Laura is to Logan
>anon then points out that Bruce Wayne already had an X-23-esque child who replaced him in Terry McGinnis
J) All-New Wolverine is a markedly better comic and does not require to bend some of the most high-profile characters to be completely out of character.
K) The comic is not full of people falling over themselves to congratulate Laura on being semi-competent while having a vagina.
It's not the bait on the OP that counts, it's the shitposting INSIDE the thread.
Allow me to rephrase that into the underlying valid point.
L) Laura is easily on the top 3 shortlist of people with a legitimate claim on the Wolverine mantle, while in Thor they presented a list with a dozen names that Jane Foster did not make.
If Enchantress is a better call than you are, you have no fucking business picking up that hammer.
Also still mad nobody used Gunnhild since Journey into Mystery.
Gage wrote her as autistic, Claremont wrote her as a child, Liu wrote her as apathetic towards everything that wasn't Gambit, Bendis made her act like a valley girl, not to mention K&Y made her act like a cold blooded killer in X-Force which didn't match the way they had written her in NXM and her solo minis.
Stop being a waifufag
Because no one knows what to do with her, cause frankly, no one cares. Every time they try something new with her, no one gives a fuck. Which probably says more about the character
I think the rage on Jane-Thor is quite immoderate, still X-23 has some redeeming points. Perhaps especially in contrast to Thor. Hey, at least there's no hamfisted mystery like "Who's Femthor?" and instead of half the MU being "You go. Girl. Girlpower!", even friends doubt her a little and she still needs to earn some respect (which she does).
>Gage wrote her as autistic
>Liu wrote her as apathetic towards everything that wasn't Gambit
>K&Y made her act like a cold blooded killer in X-Force which didn't match the way they had written her in NXM and her solo minis.
These are all so blatantly wrong it makes me wonder how you could've read these comics and still come out with these opinions.
Look in this very thread.
The X-23 depicted here is the more or less the same as this one: >>78794582
You can tell that these are supposed to be the same character from just the writing.
Obviously no two writers are going to write the same character in 100% the same way, but from Kyle/Yost until Bendis, she had consistent traits: she was stoic, direct when it came to delivering her opinion, more afraid of herself and her past than anything else, and secretly very caring of her comrades, to say the least. She had a distinct speech style that was maintained throughout different writers' runs.
The X-23 in All New Wolverine is not like this. She's just an ordinary teenage girl and there is nothing interesting about her at all.
Man, I just remembered that bit in Messiah CompleX where Hellion gets eviscerated by Lady Deathstrike. X-23 waits until they meet again and then beats the shit out of her for hurting her husbando in a really triumphant moment. Deathstrike didn't say "Well you're a GIRL Wolverine so I'm gonna just apologize and go home." They were both warriors fighting until one of them was dead in the snow.
But I guess Kyle and Yost actually care about the characters they write.
Yeah, having the trigger scent suddenly be capable of being used on anybody was a weird decision by Liu, especially when Kyle and Yost had gone to great lengths to demonstrate that it was something forced into Laura's psyche by almost continuous torturous pavlovian association and the scent itself wasn't anything special.
U) X-23 had numerous mini-series and series, before she became a Wolverine. Jane Foster was only a What If hero before Thor
V) Before she claimed to be a Wolverine, you had Death of Logan, which dealt with possible people related to Logan. Then you had Wolverines, which she was part of, meaning it was an organic development, instead of out of the blue.
W) She sounds like a logical choice. The world needs a wolverine, and who else is supposed to be a Wolverine? Daken?
X) X gon give it to ya, even if it's a pussycat, and especially if it's a pussycat
Y) Because why should we be angered over that?
Z) Because there is nothing over to rage for, as shown in previous arguments
>who knew being abused your entire life, forced to kill the people you love, and being hunted relentlessly by a facility of amoral psychopaths and supersoldiers while never being able to truly form attachments to others in order to avoid endangering them could be so fun
-X-23 by Jason Aaron
>The world needs a wolverine
The world needs a wolverine like it needs a Funny Bunny
Okay, look, not even a fan of the character.
But I have been reading X-Men stuff for a long time, and I know that X-23 is BY FAR one of the most consistent 'new' characters in cape comics. Her progression from her minis, to the teen X-Men stuff, to X-Force, had a pretty neat arc to it. I can't say all that much about her twenty-whatever issue solo, but from the pages posted here, she seems to have continued consistently from X-Force.
I believe you have a have case of doesn't read comics.
I would like to speak out against the notion that Laura is behaving like a normal girl.
Yes, she does not appear to be held together by shoestring and an iron will anymore, but she is still kind of awkward.
Yes, she gives valid responses now, but everything she does has a direct bent to it.
In a "normal" girl her age, you would expect more words, more expressiveness.
I do agree that the contrast is to earlier iterations is a sharp one, but if one expects that she would learn culture and social interaction, then ANW seems a logical step towards normalcy.
Not a perfect one, mind you. But my thesis could just as well fall apart at the first sustained conversation since her talking has been rather perfunctory so far.
Are you seriously saying this sounds like X-23?
The tragedies of Whor are:
1. Her book is just soapboxing. There's no story or real writing worth a damn. It's just stupid bragging about how progressive it is to have a femThor.
2. FemThor is, for some reason, not Valkyrie or Sif.
The tragedies of X-Twenterine are:
1. She's been changed into a totally unrecognizable, totally boring character by Bendis, and that characterization has stuck for some inane reason.
2. She should really be in some kind of superpowered espionage thriller.
How Kyle/Yost would have written this scene.
>Laura: Do you have eyes on the shooter?
>Warren: No, but I'm sure they're still in the tower somewhere.
>Laura: Okay. I will locate them.
>Warren: Um... you sure you want to take that off? You look pretty conspicuous.
>Laura: The chances of stealth infiltration have fallen to approximately 1%.
>Warren: Also, to them, you now look like you're talking to yourself.
>was a weird decision by Liu
I doubt it was a decission. It was more like Liu never fully understood what Trigger Scent even is. Which is just a random scent with no specific properties.
The only thing that made it special is Laura's conditioning. Liu saw that and thought it was a magic rage serum.
Pretty much the only real thing Liu got wrong about the character.
It's a shame, too, because trigger scent was a cool concept. Logan was always prone to berserker rages that made him stronger and faster, so the Facility decided to just weaponize that aspect of his mutant ability while also making use of his enhanced senses.
>Innocence Lost: Laura loves her mother. Starts to have a mind of her own. Kills with little discretion, but starts drawing lines.
>Target X: Laura starts to care about her aunt and cousin and opens up to them. Kills without much discretion when she sees it necessary.
>New X-Men: Laura is reluctant to open up to all these people she has no association with. Starts to be a bit more reluctant about killing and her world view shifts a bit.
>X-Force: Laura is isolated from all her friends and thrown back into the situations she trained her entire life for. Kills indiscriminately again, but trying to align her training of "fulfill the mission you are told at any cost" with her slowly emerging conscience, feelings and expectations of others towards her, confuses her completely to the point where she almost kills herself.
>X-23: After X-Force, Laura is completely in turmoil and withdraws from most people. She starts contemplating on all the people she killed willingly and unwillingly and tries to coalign all that into one personality. She travels the world and becomes a bit more open.
She still very much kills, but with a lot more reflection about it.
>Avengers Academy: In the environment where killing is generally looked down upon, she tries to mostly stay away from it too. She bonds with some of the other kids, especially Finesse who eventually betrays her trust, by using her unconscious body to kill someone.
Truly her story has so many resets, holy shit.
I would've liked Finesse to turn into her nemesis.
Finesse being a person that was headed towards becoming an evil emotionless killing machine
and X-23 being an evil emotionless killing machine that was headed towards becoming a person.
Of course it was never going to happen and especially not now anymore, after we had 3 books in a row that completely ignored her personality.
Because she is his legacy, and it's a natural succession.
What does get me mad is why the fuck is Old Man Logan in the main universe? What the fuck is the point of making Laura Wolverine if they literally just loophole in another Wolverine. It makes her taking up Logans mantle moot when there is another one running around. Gives the impression that she isn't good enough to be Wolverine, and they needed a Logan just in case. This could have been a good time for her to get the limelight, but now she's just gonna be a shadow to another Wolverine.
Liu's run would've been great if she had just given Laura interesting things to do.
She had the character down to a T and did important work with her. But all the stories surrounding that character work were all just unimpressive and forgettable.
It's not just the dialogue.
The comic starts with her getting a call from Alchemax telling her, they lost control of the child soldier clones they made from her DNA.
I still don't understand how any one of them is still alive.
And I'm completely baffeled by the fact that she tried to go along with it at the start.
She does slightly but for the most part because it's both expected, not in your face, and there's no stupid mystery gimmick. X23 probably shouldn't take her dad's mantle but she's not some mystery chick. She's not calling herself Logan . Also Logan has been stupidly dead for a while so it isn't a rushed half-assed non-reason like a cyclops whispered in his ear.
>Laura has her own series
>it's selling really well
>will probably go on for some time
>it's completely fails to utilise her character at all
Couldn't be that the transition was handled better.
yes she is, dipshit, read the fucking book.
yeah, and unlike whor she's doing it to keep Logan's memory alive.
I don't care about her going by Wolverine. I just wish they didn't try to force Logan's costume onto her. I much prefer her standard look or her X-Force look
Also, she's been written like a completely different character ever since Bendis started writing her
>he is literally her father both genetically
Well kinda...she has the same DNA as him, but children usually have split DNA of both their parents...so I guess she's technically his daughter in a way
>We will never get New X-Men back
Its been like 10 years and i'm still mad
Having read through Jane Foster's Thor one of the biggest mistakes made was spending an issue again on her taking up Mjonir after that arc had been completed ; it felt like Jason was upset at the fact that people hadn't completely accepted Jane, he should have just pushed forward with the story instead of felating himself.
people like x-23
nobody is calling her wolverine. she's just cosplaying as her daddy
i like to use x-23 as proof that the bone claws thing never happened because obviously her claws are different
>i like to use x-23 as proof that the bone claws thing never happened because obviously her claws are different
>Her claim to the mantle is far weaker than Janes as she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
She was a clone desperately wishing that Wolverine would give her the daddy time he gave Kitty, Jubilee, Armor and others, but both her and logan were to emotionally reatrded to talk about it.
She kinda does
But she also is an actual clone of Wolverine, with the same powers and all. She also has a troubled and bloody past.
Jane Foster was just Thor's on and off girlfriend and now she's suddenly Thor because Nick Fury whispered sweet nothings into Odinson's ear
They were coated in adamantium when she was still growing, that's why they are small in proportion to her body, it's in her origin arc.