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You are currently reading a thread in /co/ - Comics & Cartoons

Thread replies: 111
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http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/tilting-at-windmills-trouble-on-the-horizon

>How about the new and young readership? Marvel actually was starting to attract some of them at our stores -- books like "Squirrel Girl," "Ms. Marvel" and the Jane Foster "Thor" title were racking solid sales for us outside of the "traditional" Marvel customer. But that new/younger readership? They literally don't understand why you would start a book over again at #1. It makes no sense to them! And that confusion appears to have shooed a number of them off. In an equivalent sales period, our sales of the first issues of all of those series are actually below (dramatically so in the case of "Thor!") the final issues of the "old series" -- which was only on issue #8 for two of the three! But readers appear to be treating the relaunches as simply "issue #9." That's not typical consumer behavior.
>>
>>78695459
I guess people are catching on the constant relaunching stunts.
>>
>>78695459
>even kids think Marvel gimmicks are retarded
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>>78695459
oh god this is hilarious. Course Marvel already supplied them a way to retain profits with those incentive variants ammaright?
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>>78695459
>That's not typical consumer behavior.
Translation: Unlike Marvel's base readership, normal people are smart enough to realize it's stupid and walk away.
>>
>>78695459
This article is placed in the CBR community forum instead of the marvel forum, where it would get 1000 more views, shame.
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>>78695459
It begins. The titan is falling.
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>>78695459
Like Marvel gives a fuck. Comic book stores will continue to buy relaunches. And who gives a shit about the old batch of new readers since there will just be a new batch once another movie pops out. In the end it's about Marvel making money, and they have a solid formula for making sure they continue to make money.
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>>78695459
I like how this article fails to mention at all the quality of stories and writing on Whor versus the quality of Thor.

Maybe it's just no one wants to read grill power books that have nothing going for them besides that.
>>
>>78696569
Have we started the fire?
>>
>>78696582
That formula relies on a series of Disney films that have grown stale 5 years ago. It won't last much longer.
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>>78696569
It still has Star Wars Comics anon, now that's a community more idiotic and willing to throw huge amounts of money than us.
>>
>>78695459
hate to be the one to say it
but thank you, normies
>>
it's 90s all over again

>>78696639
I see this phrase on a lot of boards especially /co/'s boogeyman board

2016 is a year of changes
>>
>>78696582
This

LCSes will continue to buy absurd amounts of variants and tons of #1s.
Same thing with events. Marvel has done at least one, sometimes two, big events every year, and yet they still sell very well despite the vocal minority bitching about how terrible events are. And it seems like events just end up in dollar bins by the dozens after they're over.
>>
>>78696611
>I like how this article fails to mention at all the quality of stories and writing on Whor versus the quality of Thor.

He said that the book sold well for them at first. But the thing is that it's a consistent pattern among all the All-New relaunches, so he couldn't really single out Thor.

Whoever decided that the books should be relaunched is probably gonna be in a lot of trouble.
>>
> I think that the market is starting to say that the days of being a "superhero-only" store are beginning to be numbered
Yes

>>78697457
See you in a year. Or not.
This "news" is not new at all, but natural, logical outcome of marvel and dc's tactics
>>
>>78697360
Except this time, there's no way Marvel is gonna go under
>Star Wars
>MCU Hype
>Casuals
>>
>>78697535
Disney can shut marvel's door, fire all employees, and start a new company, Star Wars comics, MCU comics...
Disney doesn't need Marvel COMICS, but Marvel Comics needs to justify its existence to Disney
>>
>>78696582
>>78697457
The problem with that theory is that, retailers are seeing that relaunches aren't working at their store, so they'd be gun-shy about ordering more of new relaunches.
>>
>>78697535
But it seems like the casuals are the ones catching on. They're not the battered wives that comic fans are.
Marvel got a hot new girlfriend to cheat on his wife with then thought he could treat her like his wife.
At the very least we're probably going to get a change in cheap gimmicks or things are going to even out in the Market share again.
>>
>>78697531
>marvel and dc's tactics
Why are you lumping dc in with marvel? They aren't using the same shameless tactics that marvel has been using.
>>
>>78696661
Kek, that's funny. As long as there are kids, it will continue to last.
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>>78697638
DC is classier, and they don't deserve the same fate as marvel, but they also goofed
>>
>>78697531

not really.
I mean that'd be cool.
but Saga and The Walking Dead are like the only Image books that do decent numbers?

Even stuff like Sex Criminals and Bitch Planet which are critically applauded and loved aren't great sellers, and are rather inconsistent with their shipping.
>>
>>78696611
>>78697520
Any news on the sales of Whor? I wanna find out if this shit's failing
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>>78697644
>it will continue to last.
Not in the same form. Nothing lasts forever, and we've had the same brand of Marvel movies for a decade now.
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>>78697681
The thing is, what we can expect is that the general sales of mainstream comics will be much lowered than they currently are.
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>>78697638
because DC still regularly fucks upa
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>>78697681
they sell well in graphic book format.
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>>78697683
09/14 Thor v5 #25 – 53,047 ( 38.4%)
10/14 Thor v6 #1 – 150,862 ( 184.4%)[10,756]
11/14 Thor v6 #2 – 89,131 ( -40.9%)
12/14 Thor v6 #3 – 72,563 ( -18.6%)
01/15 Thor v6 #4 - 69,497 ( -4.2%)
02/15 Thor v6 #5 - 69,513 ( +0.0%)
03/15 Thor v6 #6 - 70,569 ( +1.5%)
04/15 Thor v6 #7 - 71,372 ( +1.1%)
05/15 Thor v6 #8 - 86,222 (+20.1%)
11/15 Mighty Thor #1 - 112,053

If Hibbs says that Mighty Thor #2's range is like as if it were Thor v6 #9 then it might be around the 70,000-85,000 range.
>>
http://www.comicsbeat.com/will-2016-be-bleh-meh-or-somewhere-in-between-for-comics-sales/

http://www.comicsbeat.com/is-marvels-relaunch-stumbling-out-of-the-gate/
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>>78697872
are these good numbers for a comic book or not? that's a large gap from 150k to 80k.
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>>78697910
They're very good.
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>>78697910
150K to 80K is actually not bad because a #1 usually gets a lot of orders, so you have to ignore the #1s. To see how a book is doing you have to look at a long chunk, like six or seven months worth.

Going by the Thor chart, it's been hovering around 69000 to 72000 which is consistent. I don't know why #8 got a jump in numbers though, was that when they revealed Thor was Jane?
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>>78697813
Yep, Sex Criminals was the 7th best selling trade of 2014.
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>>78697998
>I don't know why #8 got a jump in numbers though, was that when they revealed Thor was Jane?

Yeah, was hyped as the reveal beforehand.
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>>78697904
http://www.comicsbeat.com/is-marvels-relaunch-stumbling-out-of-the-gate/
>This is to say, if you remove the Star Wars franchise from the picture, the Marvel universe isn’t doing that much better than the DC universe. Oh, Marvel is much better pruning the vine and keeping the sales above 20K on their superhero titles, but with the exception of Spidey and perhaps Deadpool, the mid-list is the top list and 40K is starting to be high sales for anything not designated a flagship franchise.
Remember this, kids.
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>>78696663
This.

Though wasn't there a thread about how the Star Wars comics funding and profits went in separate directions to the traditional Marvel Ips?
>>
>>78697998
>>78697954
aw fuck. the sjw pandering won?

I think the jump was the reveal.
>>
>>78697910
>that's a large gap from 150k to 80k.
you would have an aneurysm if you see the sales drop from 1 to 2 of Bendis Iron Man
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>>78698373
Oh god does anyone have those numbers? I gotta see this shit.
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>>78698412
It dropped almost 80% from 200k to 60k
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>>78698427
There is a god.
>>
>>78698329
Well if you compare it to pre-Jane Thor:


11/12 Thor v5 #1 - 110,443 (+212.6%)
11/12 Thor v5 #2 - 65,533 ( -40.7%)
12/12 Thor v5 #3 - 55,547 ( -15.2%)
01/13 Thor v5 #4 - 50,478 ( -9.1%)
02/13 Thor v5 #5 - 51,861 ( +2.7%)
03/13 Thor v5 #6 - 50,481 ( -2.7%)
04/13 Thor v5 #7 - 51,526 ( +2.1%)

11/13 Thor v5 #15 - 41,259 (-10.3%)
12/13 Thor v5 #16 - 39,597 ( -4.0%)
01/14 Thor v5 #17 - 38,913 ( -1.7%)
01/14 Thor v5 #18 - 38,190 ( -1.9%)
02/14 Thor #19.Now– 42,034 ( 10.1%)
03/14 Thor v5 #20 – 37,895 ( -9.8%)
04/14 Thor v5 #21 – 38,055 ( 0.4%)
05/14 Thor v5 #22 – 36,945 ( -2.9%)
06/14 Thor v5 #23 – 36,540 ( -1.1%)
07/14 Thor v5 #24 – 38,330 ( 4.9%)
09/14 Thor v5 #25 – 53,047 ( 38.4%)

Her sales have been doing better.
>>
>>78698455
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

Invincible Iron Man #1 279,513
Invincible Iron Man #2 66,664
Invincible Iron Man #3 59,069

Next time you see that pasta, remember that it's only a parody meme
>>
>>78698373
aneurysm? more like an orgasm. Which I just had when I saw the numbers.
>>
>>78698506
From another thread:

Bendis' Iron Man so far:


Invincible Iron Man #1 - 279,514
Invincible Iron Man #2 - 66,664
Invincible Iron Man #3 - 59,069

Fraction's Iron Man from seven years ago:

05/08 Invincible Iron Man #1 - 120,657
06/08 Invincible Iron Man #2 - 76,001 (-37.0%)
07/08 Invincible Iron Man #3 - 66,430 (-12.6%)
08/08 Invincible Iron Man #4 - 58,154 (-12.5%)

Gillen's Iron Man from three years ago:

11/12 Iron Man v6 #1 - 116,529 (+215.1%)
11/12 Iron Man v6 #2 - 72,902 ( -37.4%)
12/12 Iron Man v6 #3 - 59,041 ( -19.0%)
12/12 Iron Man v6 #4 - 56,708 ( -4.0%)
01/13 Iron Man v6 #5 - 50,899 ( -10.2%)

Taylor's Superior Iron Man from recent years:


11/14 Sup. Iron Man #1 - 83,994 ( 199.7%)
11/14 Sup. Iron Man #2 - 42,621 ( -49.3%)
12/14 Sup. Iron Man #3 - 38,806 ( -9.0%)
01/15 Sup. Iron Man #4 – 38,515 ( -0,7%)
02/15 Sup. Iron Man #5 – 35,094 ( -8.9%)
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>>78698582
It seems like Bendis and Gillen's numbers are same at issue #3. And I think that issue #4 will also see a further drop
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>>78698582
It's probably the biggest drop in the whole IM history. I mean, seriously 210k drop from #1 to #2?
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>>78696611
Dude, I think you misread what their meant.
Thor series from All-New Marvel, the one with Pubic Beard Loki, is selling worse than last issue of previous series starring Jane Thor, not that Jane Thor as whole is selling worse than Thor: God of Thudner (for the record, her first book sold much better than GoT. GoT lost more customers between issues #1 and #2 than Jane between issues #1 and #6)
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>>78697572
Creating new stories that can be adapted in MCU.
Creating new characters that can join MCU.
reinventing old characters to be more hip with mdoern audience and terefore more acceptable in MCU. Remember how Cap in his movies wears respectively Ultimate Universe outfit and Super Soldier Outfit? That kind of stuff.
>>
>>78697638
>>78697669
>>78697782
Marvel is like original Scrooge McDuck trying to get his money any means necessary. DC is like Duck Dodgers - would be cool but makes a lot of dumb choices and fate seems to hate them.
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>>78698697
Comics are not where the money is at.
The real money is merchandise, and they have enough of the source material for 100 years.
They don't need to publish new marvel comics, and given that they fired the committee recently, they don't even want them.
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>>78698642
The drop really doesn't matter much, because #1 was so frontloaded. It's still selling more than the Taylor relaunch, which is a win for them.
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>>78698760
I like that comparison. Still Scrooge had some balls, was an adventurer, and some code of honor.

>>78698779
Iron Man was supposed to be the flagship. Meanwhile, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, Deadpool and X-Men are doing better.
>>
Looks like Marvel will once again single-handedly destroy the comic book industry.
>>
>>78698582
If we Ignore #1s then...Damn, Tony just cannot into A-List sales. It's like Polandball and space.
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>>78698802
Hopefully for good this time
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>>78698775
Committee was bunch of asshoels getting their fingers into wrong honey jar.
The thing is, that they don't really have that many stories to adapt. I mean, Captain America already almost run of cool enemies to fight - if Zemo and Crossbones are in Civil War, then he only got Sin and Faustus left. I mean do you REALLY think they will bring Cobra and Mr. Hyde to the silver screen? Thor's msot stories are not on the level they are comfortable with, they are too over the top. Carol barely has any good material and they might just put her in Mar-Vell based comics, in which case she dies of cancer. T'Challa has Priest's run and that's it, his other stories won't really work on MCU. They don't even think Hulk is worth making a movie about. They need new material. and they need constant supply of it.
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>>78698986
>don't really have that many stories to adapt
Captain America runs for President
Serpent Society
Replacement for Captain America
Count Nefaria
Dimension Z
Return of Red Skull
Hydra Takes over the World

The comic book has like over 600+ issues
And they can always employ some real writers to write a good plot. Or reboot.
>>
>>78698794
>Still Scrooge had some balls, was an adventurer, and some code of honor.
I was talking about original Scrooge, the one who once hired mercenaries to destroy a village because he wanted to buy the land it was on and laughed when telling Donald about it. Scrooge you mean is Don Rosa's Scrooge, the one who had that moment retconned into most shameful mistake of his life.
but thanks anyway.
>>
>>78699075
You're correct. My bad
>>
>>78698697
>Creating new stories that can be adapted in MCU.

it that is the goal, why not simply directly hire movie script writers? Why hire comic book script writers, create a comic and only then hire a movie script writer to adapt the comic into a movie?

You are an idiot.
>>
>>78698642
>>78698779
I think that the drop wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't frontloaded it. As an Iron Man series it's doing okay so far in sales but since their intention was to make it a flagship book, I think they didn't meet their goal.
>>
>>78699063
>Dimension Z
You want that shit? Why?
Replacement is likely going to happen anyway, this might be where they exhaust Sin and Faustus.
They won't do President because it's too political, they don't bring back villains and seriously, Hydra in MCU is a joke fucking Coulson soloed.
And I really doubt Count Nefaria will fly in MCU with how fucking powerful he is and he is not iconic enough. Same with Serprent Society - it's not something they want to sell to normies. I mean bunch of guys in snake costumes? Don't get me wrong, I know they're cool guys but ask yourself...do you REALLY think they will sell that to normal people?

They already have real writers, they take broad strokes from comics and put them into movie plot. And I think Amazing Spider-Man and Fan4stic showed us all how much are superhero reboots worth.
>>
The best business decision is to cut 25% of the line at the bottom. Lower revenue, hither profit. And with more prestigious titles follow Mihnolaverse or Saga, i.e. time gaps between arcs, but CONSISTENT creative team.
>>
>>78698261
There's also a pretty good point brought up in the comments section of that link:

>The problem with Marvel’s relaunch is Marvel not being clear why they’re relaunching. There’s been no clear direction of their intention.

>Is it to get new readers? Then the books would need to be accessible, affordable and feature classic versions of the characters (IMO) because casual readers recognise those, e.g. one Spider-Man, Bruce Banner = Hulk, X-Men “everyone hates and fears them”, etc.

>Same goes with lapsed readers.

>So it’s clear ANAD is ONLY for existing readers, those there pre-Secret Wars and the only people who understand the existing continuity. Marvel had no interest in the other groups, just in mining their hardcore fans.

>It’s possible people in the other groups sampled the No1s, hence the high numbers. Maybe these people really do want to buy Marvel comics, except they can’t, because the books just aren’t made for them.
>>
>>78699191
1) Part of the hype machine. if they announce a new character getting their own movie in MCU, peopel start making theories and psoting articles. Who is that character? Essential stories about that character. Who are that character's villains? It's a free commercial, part of what made mCU so successfull. In case of some characters they would need more material. I mean, look at Moon Knight- if you announced his movie now people would be makign articles about his history, essential comcis and villains. All 2 of them, because aside of Bushman and Black Spectre he doesn't have much that will ring for non-hardcore fans. You don't make people wonder who will the villain be if there are all 2 of them. But if you have Jeff Lemire introducing new villains now, in new ongoing? You can pick up two from there and some obscure character as a joke and you are ready to go.
2) it's cheaper. Instead of hiring multiple people to work on the ideas and rewriting them into the script, you give your child company that job and they do it for you. You see what is popular with the fans and you cherry-pick that, sicne it worked and then tell your people to work on pulling complete story out of those elements.
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>>78699234
>You want that shit? Why?
Calm down, was just throwing ideas

>think they will sell that to normal people?
I don't know, I stopped being a normie long time ago, and frankly, I couldn't care less.
But if Marvel could make an ant-man movie, doctor strange movie is probably going to be good, it's all about the execution. If you liked MCU so far, you have nothing to be afraid of.
>>
>>78699468
>Part of the hype machine
Everything can be a hype. Maybe next CA will be about Falcon taking over as CA? Or maybe not, who knows?

>it's cheaper
anon, do you know that the budget for the Infinity Two-Part will be over billion? It seems like they stopped caring about the costs.
>>
>>78699468
"hype machine"?

20k readers will not create a hype machine for a blockbuster.
>>
>>78699481
>If you liked MCU so far, you have nothing to be afraid of.

We're not arguing about shape of MCU but whenever Disney needs Marvel. And quite frankly I've got bored of it long time ago, now I just want them to adapt characters I like in hopes to get more books about them. I want MCU Runaways because I want new Runaways book. I mean that's the only chance to fix what hopeless did to them, seeing how A-Force will likely be about kissing his ass and talking about how he broke and changed Nico forever.
>>
>>78699549
No, but big internet sites pulling comcis for those 20k and using them to make clickbait articles about who or what might be in the next movie for millions of normies? They will.
>>
>>78699628
Disney is in good shape. They have recognizable brands. If MCU is in good shape, they don't need comic book fan readers, who are like 30+ years old neckbeards. It was reiterated already in this thread that comic book sales are only small portion, and that the bigger money goes into other merchandise.

If they want to milk Runaways, they will make a tv show, and maybe some comic book tie in that will be cancelled with issue #6.

also, what this anon said>>78699549

Plus
>>78699683
Clickbait articles can be also done for movie rumors. And frankly, I don't think that I'm wrong if I assume that movie rumors about a possilbe appearance of Spider-Man in MCU movie will generate more clicks and discussion than article about a possible comic book death, relaunch or some other, whatever bullshit.
>>
>>78695459
>Comics are so confusing! I don't want to read all the way from issue one for over 400 issues, I want to have clear beginning right now!
And when you give them that
>Comics go over and over, they never end
And when you close them early to start again for new, fresh start
>Comics are so confusing! Why would you restart from issue #1?! it makes no sense!
>>
>>78699787
The moral of the story?
Comics are confusing, don't read them.
>>
>>78699787
I actually know this guy who only reads new 52 and Marvel Now titles, because he believes that he'd have to read from #1 if he wants to read anything before that.
>>
>>78699748
>If they want to milk Runaways, they will make a tv show
Can they get to it already?
>>
>>78699888
Only if they WANT to.

You wasted your get, you should have said something in vein of "Runaways 2016 AD?" instead
>>
Another thing dear anon, since I forgot to mention, you act, like movies didn't affect or inspired comics. I mean, Black Fury? Chitauri? Ooga-chaka shit-tier humor? Or that tagline that "Shield" comic had?

Which was
A comic INSPIRED by the tv series
instead of
A comic THAT inspired the tv series?
>>
>>78699913
>You wasted your get, you should have said something in vein of "Runaways 2016 AD?" instead
....I do not think I understand what you mean in that sentence, can you explain?
>>
>>78699878
Stories before that kinda are tied up in continuity that may be confusing. Hell, some stories in new52 are still tied up in continuity.
>>
>>78700057
Because when post gets a get, it usually mean that is going to happen

Since you asked, we don't know if it's going to happen, but had you posted it affirmatively that would be a get of truth

It's like a wish upon the star thing.
>>
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What a fucking shock!
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>>78700170
Oh, you meant the triples. Didn't even notice I had them.
When did we start calling them gets? Now I'm feeling old.
>>
>>78699980
Black Fury was in the comics first.

When Samuel Jackson saw the similarity,he offered to play the role
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>>78700222
But Thor is literally a fucking title. It fucking says it on the hammer
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>>78695459
>But that new/younger readership? They literally don't understand why you would start a book over again at #1.

A quick buck on relaunches which just hurts sales in the long run
>>
>>78700270
you had dub triple
gets is a universal term for any number that repeats

>>78700312
>Black Fury was in the comics first.
in alternative universe. not the mainstream one
>>
>>78698037

>All those indy books

Good fuck Marvel
>>
>>78700160
There's just some references from a few past runs at best. I never got what's so confusing about continuity. Just pick a fresh run and you're set to go.
>>
>>78698261
fucking this.

star wars is making so much money for marvel in comics right now it's ridiculous. and it won't die down anytime soon with the next installment set to come out around this time next year, along with other spin-offs.
>>
>>78700527
in other words, expect more star war comics, less marvel comics
>>
>>78700370
>you had dub triple
>gets is a universal term for any number that repeats
Thanks, I didn't knew that.

>in alternative universe. not the mainstream one
So was the costumed used in first Captain AMerica movie. It doesn't matter if it's mainstream universe or not, just that it can be adapted.
>>
Star wars x Marvel crossover when?
>>
All these books are having fucking epic 2nd issue drops.

The problem was they did this shit twice (Marvel NOW, All-new Marvel NOW), then went crazy and did the big restart.

If they hadn't fucked around with the softer 2 relaunches prior to this one and just held their load and this all this legacy shit at the same time, they could have had something that could have lasted a bit longer.

But relaunched AFTER you've hooked some newbies in is fucking stupid.
>>
>>78698779
it's no win, no matter what axel alonso or tom breevort say.

they were fully expecting bendis to launch iron man into amazing spider-man territories of sales, at 100k+ a month. it got a huge boost from a shit ton of variants but it dropped like a goddamn anvil onto marvel's heads with #2. Both Breevort and Alonso were preaching about how Iron Man was going to be the new face of Marvel, in conjunction with MCU, by spearheading the sales.

and reminder that Iron Man double-shipped. Meaning when people were ordering #1, they were also ordering #2 at the same time. It's a massive failure when you take that into account as well. Iron Man may be big in theaters, but this is proof that success in movies don't necessarily translate to success in comics.
>>
>muh Diamond

As a person who buys singles on ComiXology and graphic books on Amazon. Literally anything in this thread is MOOT

LCS will go bankrupt? Who the fuck cares!
>>
>>78700758
at the same time, Deadpool, who is more or less still a no name, sells really great.
>>
>>78700356
No it says you shall wield the power of Thor.

You shall have the powers that the guy named Thor has. You're not Thor.

I can have all the powers of a guy named Steve I'm not the new Steve.
>>
>>78700877
deadpool is strange...he's basically an internet meme sensation. think of all the "deadpool vs" cosplay videos for instance. and there's a lot of anticipation for the movie coming out now, though the marketing has been so endless for it im a little sick of it now honestly.
>>
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>>78700788
>LCS will go bankrupt? Who the fuck cares!
Same thing happened with arcades. Man, I miss going to arcades...
>>
>>78699878
He's not wrong. Only casuals don't start from number one.
>>
>>78701284
I do believe that the comic book itself being good also helps. Memes aside, it definitely deserves the sales
>>
>>78701407
>LCS used to be next to Arcade in local mall
>20 years later
>all 3 are long dead
>LCS moved locations 3 times until settling in the other side of town and gone full card/hobby shop with no comics
>mall became a fucking super walmart
I'll always miss you.
>>
>>78701441
Only characterfags start from number one.
>>
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>>78701604
You've got me there, friendo.
>>
>>78696502
Normal people don't stick around long enough to become battered housewives for Marvel to use and abuse as they see fit.

Just remember: It's not your fault, /co/.
>>
>>78702065
it isn't? all these years I thought it was our fault.
phew, what a relief.
>>
>>78697457
People buy events for the same reason they buy Slott's Spider-Man despite wanting the fat fucker to choke on a hot dog, or Bendis's X-Men despite absolutely hating the very concept upon which the run was built, they HAVE TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON in the Marvel Universe and this is the only way to do it. Again, they're battered housewives. These are the kinds of people keeping the company afloat.

Of course, you also have idiots like my brother and my friends who are total fucking event babies and aren't smart enough to realize they're helping to perpetuate these terrible things and helping Marvel to think it's okay to constantly say "NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME AGAIN!" year in and year out. Really, there's no way to stop either of these types of people from supporting Marvel. Sometimes you get someone who's smart enough to realize it's time to walk away, but that doesn't matter because there are 50 more people standing behind them looking down on that person while taking an assraping from Marvel.
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