Yeah I always pictured Superman as a large stocky guy, not some pretty-looking handsome guy. Like, he should look like a football player or something. Have those huge broad shoulders. Ben Batfleck looks bigger than Supes
>>78662041 I have a buddy who's a fucking huge Supes fan and it's so depressing to talk to him about it. When asked which is his favorite supes movie, his response is usually an exasperated sigh, followed by "Man of Steel, I guess."
Being a supes fan is truly a fate worse than death.
>>78662468 i think she has the physical power but not the mental practice to confidently process information at that speed so she probably goes full speed to a single objective then picks out her next target to zip to
>>78662417 Only if it's critically panned as it probably will be
Doesn't matter if a fucktillion people see it, once its score on rotten tomatoes drops below 60%, half of /co/ turns into first year film students and amateur film critics and goes on about how "you just didn't understand the movie and you just hate it because you didn't get it, man."
>>78662569 It'll probably be an average movie that'll have a solid box office run. But this is /co/, and particularly /co/ after three years of shitposting, both from apologists, shitposters and Zack Snyder himself. If this movie gets a RT score below 94% and a box office below $1.9 billion, there will be cries of flop.
And, Protip, it will.
RT: 74%, will get Certified Fresh. B.O: $1.4 billion.
And once it's over, CIVIL WAR will come and a whole new slew of shitposting shall begin.
They know the film is bad. They never actually have any arguments to the contrary that work, and they can never argue against the film's many, many flaws - all discussions with an MoSfag eventually boil down to "Did you even watch the movie!?" or "It's not bad, you just didn't like it, I thought it was the most emotionally engaging thing ever!" because they can't actually defend the film on a technical level. They're just desperately in love with a company and want the film to be good.
>>78662412 Case in fucking point. "Hurr did yoo even see da moovee!?"
>>78662630 Not trying to start company wars here, because seriously, how fucking stupid is that >HURR I PAY MORE MONEY TO THIS MULTIMILLION DOLLAR COMPANY SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY BETTERER but I've noticed RT scores only matter when it comes to MCUfriends. Avengers 2 has, what, a 74%? And general /co/nsensus is it's shit. MoS gets a 54% and we get ">listening to RT, MOS WAS GOOD, FUCK "PROFESSIONAL CRITICS"."
I guess it comes with the territory of the DCU being the underdog that the DC defense force is so aggressive, but like I said, company wars, totally retarded.
>>78662808 Isn't a movie considered a flop unless it makes back twice its budget? With names like bats, supes and wonder woman behind it, it'll easily make at least 900 mil, but factoring in budget, advertising, etc. that should only be, what, 100 mil in profits?
>>78662808 >I imagine the tracking will go up leading up to its release.
Sure, which is why I predict it will at least pull in Nolan numbers.
Part of BvS tracking so poorly (relatively) is WB are notorious for poor marketing, that 2nd trailer for example. Hell look at Pan this year, WB was confident and even had a trilogy planned, huge flop and extremely poor marketing is part of the reason for that flop.
At the end of the day quality is what will determine BvS's box-office not the brand, the brand only guarantees this thing hits 700 million. And judging by the spoiler leaks it's not looking too good. Very by the numbers, very commercial.
>>78662968 Yikes. What I wanna know is where all that money is going to. Aside from Affleck, most of the actors are nobodies, and the CG is good but nothing amazing, from what I've seen, so what gives?
It wasn't bad perse, IMO it was a good movie: 7,3/10 >Disliked things like how Lois Lane was forced everywhere and that kissing scene in the middle of a destroyed city. >Disliked Clarks haircut as Superman, that shit was ugly. >The dark filter was hard to look at. >I don't agree with the way they killed off pa Kent. Should've made it like Smallville
What I liked was >The action and fighting scenes >Good score >Flight scenes were great >Great villain >Henry Cavill is the perfect Superman
The 55% on RT and on IMDB are too low, would've expected a 65-70% mi familia
>>78662208 I think it's more than one guy but I do also think there's at least one guy that is constantly showing up to these treads because I have a hard time buying there are two people that use the exact same grammar and syntax and can't go two sentences without whining about how it's a serious movie for serious mature epic mythic people like him.
If that one anon got a trip I'd be willing to bet the number of Man of Steel threads on the board would be halved.
No, it wasn't a bad movie... it just wasn't a GOOD movie.
It was kinda boring, even with all the action, it didn't make a lot of sense, there were a ton of really stupid parts in it.
It should have just been two hours of Faora wrecking shit in increasingly skimpy outfits until she's buck-ass naked and suplexing Kal-El through buildings. Then the sequel would be Dawn of Hotness, with Faora and Power Girl fighting each other for a while then teaming up with Wonder Woman to kick the shit out of Batman, Lex Luthor, Doomsday, and all those other pieces of shit before running off to start a super-powered lesbian commune.
>>78661847 Man of Steel was: -An hour too long with at least 45 minutes of no-brainer cuts -A confused mess of a plot with a majority of actions and dialogue conflicting with character's explicitly stated motivations as well as the basic themes of the movie -Edited into an out-of-order mess that confuses whatever narrative line may have existed previously -Tonally inconsistent at best, schizophrenic at worst
The movie's problems have nothing to do with Zod being murdered. Zod being murdered is a problem, mainly due to there being no build up or consequence, but it in itself is not a problem.
>the guy who posts and image of what he liked about MoS and uses caps all the time >they spoiler tripcode guy who samefags like there's no tomorrow >they idiot that always tries to use sophisitcated words like "obtuse" but always falls out of context
You've been saying that your bullshit "lol anywun dat hates it hasn't seen the film" crap in that first post was just you calling out a guy for not watching the film, and that shit is a lie. You, as usual, defaulted to the dumbass pro-MoS line that people with other opinions just don't know what they're talking about.
I'd call you an idiot and say you're too stupid to understand or whatever, or that your retarded backbirth brain has made my morning better, but the truth is, you're just an insincere little fuckhead.
For all the talk about how the movie had great action the only action sequence that really stands out is Faora versus the soldiers.
Clark versus Zod lacks tension since no one is taking damage. It's like a fighting game on training mode, the combos might be sick and all and you might even see some stage damage but without a KO it's always going to be lacking compared to the real thing.
>>78661847 I'm of the opinion that Man of Steel is neither and excellent nor shitty movie. It is simply one composed of excellent and shitty scenes. If you like the good more than the bad bothers you, you probably liked MoS. If the bad overshadows the good for you, you probably don't like MoS. Superman as a character has existed long enough, and been featured in so many different stories with so many different tones, featuring such different takes on the character that everyone absolutely has their own preferred version of him as well as the world around him. MoS is simply another one of those alternative versions. If it caters to you, and is more in line with versions of the character that you like, I am thrilled that you have a live action Superman you can enjoy. If I happen to not have enjoyed it, I don't think that makes me anything more or less than someone with a different preference or opinion than yours. I'm just so tired of debating this movie. There is a sequel coming out in 3 months, and instead of discussing it, all we can do is debate it's 3 year old predecessor, which is something that is actually going to happen in the sequel! Can we just move on already? This movie has just become such a victim of the metastasis of stop liking what I don't like/stop disliking what I like culture, and all these threads do is a continuing disservice to the ideals Superman so often stands for.
The movie falls into that pit of a 5-7 in a scale of 10. It's not incoherent enough to be a universally agreed mess, but it's not stellar or unique enough to be considered a hit. In my opinion MoS creates some good visuals and occasional has some great lines, but overall the characters are uninteresting or annoying. The movie's version of Clark is too wooden, and it's Lois is horribly written, all other characters are not given enough dialogue for me to care about them. So as cool as any fight with Zod may look, I struggle to care because I don't feel anything for this Superman.
>>78661847 It might just be the greatest film of all time. But retards/oldfags/snyder haters/plebs don't seem to understand that. Snyder makes this feel like a comic, and unlike those shitty MCU projects, this feels more like the story of a legend, about one man finding out there's more to him than he thought. The score is also simply excellent, conveying the right sense of action, emotion and grand spectacle. The acting is fantastic too, Cavill proves that he is the best Superman to ever be, and Michael Shannon as Zodd will be one of the best superhero movie villains. The script is great too, with great lines and moments (the part where the soldiers lower their guns might just be the best part). But back to the directing, it was magnificent, it was like watching a comic book unfold, and they actually hired someone professional, unlike the MCU where they just hire hacks and nobodies who have been involved on TV shows, no less, Snyder has never made a bad movie and this film is no exception. And I do say film because its more artistic and masterpiece than any of the trite and banal pieces of garbage that the MCU puts out almost every year. Man of Steel will age like a fine wine, and in ten years time, it will be considered the magnum opus of comic book films.
>>78663567 I'll be the first to say that people need to stop treating the board like a hivemind but if you see the kind of post we're talking about you'd think the guy is samefagging to. It's not just the opinions he holds, it's the expression of them that's very distinct (dude can't spell or do a sentence that's not run on for shit, loves using words like "epic", and can't seem to go a run on sentence without cursing someone out for being a "campy baby barneyfag".
Yeah we've been having these threads daily. Is it so hard to believe we might have one autistic guy that keeps showing up for a whole lot of them? Because it's either that or some really uninspired copypasta.
Or maybe I just don't want to believe there are two people that fucking stupid out there. Let me live the lie.
>>78663486 I don't know much about it, but I know there's two guys that always flood these threads, the dude with the Sinestro and Chris Evans reaction images and the guy that gets pissed and calls people that didn't like MoS the oddly specific "camp-addicted selfish assholes who want Superman to blow sunshine up on their asses".
>>78663262 >-An hour too long with at least 45 minutes of no-brainer cuts You could remove half the Krypton stuff and the movie wouldn't suffer at all. If the point of Krypton is that it's failed civilization then there's no reason for LOOK AT HOW AWESOME JOR EL IS HE RIDES DRAGONS.
>>78663760 They don't seem to grasp the idea of GENERAL consensus versus UNANIMOUS consensus. Having said that, MoS is split pretty much 50/50 so it's not really right to say there's a general consensus for or against it here either.
So, you're both wrong. The only general consensus thing is that Raven and Power Girl are waifu material.
>>78663791 There's no consensus on MoS, which is why we have these long ass discussions everyday. It is the single most polarizing /co/ film and produced a 50/50 split the two times someone actually did a poll.
>>78663942 Don't expect newfags to remember polls. The idiots posting that are obviously from other sites by their way of accusing anons of being the same people and trying to claim and international anonymous image board has a solid consensus on anything.
>>78663871 A boring movie is much, MUCH worse than a bad movie. I'll willingly watch a bad movie for fun like Birdemic or the Room, or Food Fight, or whatever, but there is zero enjoyment to be had watching a boring movie.
>>78663901 >>78663907 >>78664074 I'm talking about the two times we did polls. The results were split 50/50 or close enough to even. Having said that, those polls were set up in a way that didn't allow for you to say it was average or okay or that it had flaws. It was a binary "It was greatest of all time" versus "It was dogshit" choice, and those are inherently flawed. A poll with more options would probably tend to the negative, but the poll result data we do have was an even split
>>78664252 A poll is a better indicator than looking through threads filled with trolls, multiple posts from single IPs, and people who simply can't be bothered to comment but who are willing to check a box that says either "good" or "shit."
In my experience this board has the worst representations of both people who love/hate MoS. It usually boils down to caps lock, buzzwords, and ethical debate which lead nowhere. The diverse opinion is fascinating really, it's not even about the film anymore, just being right. Personally I liked MoS, but I completely understand why others wouldn't and don't expect nor try to change their minds.
>>78663942 >There's no consensus on MoS Yes, there is. General, critic, and /co/ all are in agreement that it sucked.
>which is why we have these long ass discussions everyday Please. Someone wants to kick up shit by saying MoS wasn't garbage and trolls trolling trolls troll the trolls. This thread itself is 99% arguing over whether or not it consists of two people.
>>78664378 You should just stick to saying that critics generally hate it (which would still be wrong given what the 55% RT actually represents), since the DVD sells, IMDB score, box office, and RT audience score indicate that most non-critics actually like it.
>>78664401 Sample size for the first one was 729. Participation bias would actually be greater in these discussions, because the later requires more effort and there are people who don't want to get involved in the shitflinging, especially after the umpteenth go at it.
>>78664345 So it's either a thread loaded with shitposts or a poll loaded with shitposts. Well be still, my beating heart.
>>78664395 Homie, I am all for expressing your sincere opinion on something, but remember the keyword; sincere. If we were to run another poll, especially dealing with fuckwit company wars, how many DC fans would say MoS is the greatest movie that has ever graced our humble earth, simply because it's a DC movie? And how many Marvel fans would say it's shit because it's DC?
Polls on this kinda shit are finicky, and don't fool yourself into thinking you'll get an honest opinion about anything here.
>>78663151 DC is too focused on the iconography of each character and not the character itself. So we get Hal Jordan, (THE Green Lantern) Barry Allen, (THE Flash) and of course the trinity, which features Superman, (THE original superhero) Wonder Woman (THE female superhero) and Batman, who everyone likes. Problem is that Hal, Barry, and Diana are boring as shit, since DC is focused on them being so fucking iconic instead of giving them real character traits that make them relatable to the audience, and Superman gets boring real quick unless there's a talented writer behind him (not Goyer). Batman has flaws built into his character by default, so he is easily relatable on some level.
Marvel, on the other hand, focuses on making the characters come before the superpowers. In short, the A-list DC characters mostly fail the Plinkett test, while the Marvel A-listers pass with flying colors. You can go on for a while about Tony Stark's character before ever having to say "and he's in a robot suit." How far can you get with Barry Allen before you come to "And he runs really fast?" Can't wait until Cyborg borings his way onto the big screen to be a black robot and nothing else.
I wish DC would take a cue from its B- and C-listers and give them real personality. But I guess the B- and C-listers are so out of the public eye that they can afford to take risks with the writing without being crushed by the iron grip of executive oversight.
>>78664617 >If we were to run another poll, especially dealing with fuckwit company wars, how many DC fans would say MoS is the greatest movie that has ever graced our humble earth, simply because it's a DC movie
Marvel actually have the advantage in that initially many of their most popular characters and franchises weren't available to them.
If Marvel still had Spidey and Wolverine you could be absolutely quarantine constant reboots of webhead and sniktbub.
DC on the other hand is getting caught in the constant trap of doing endless reboots of origin stories because the only solid hero they have that's easy to write is Batman.
Superman is incredibly hard to write well which is why his comic sucks for decades at a time. WW has a completely awful rogue's gallery, GL generally sucks and is expensive to do because endless CGI instead of practical.
Their best shot of doing a good series would be to do most of the JL in their own TV shows and save GL and the Trinity for the movie crossovers.
>>78664673 That it may be, but my point still stands.
If you wanna honest opinion on shit like this your best choice is to do the legwork and monitor threads about it.
It's puss easy to go to a poll and say "Yes it good" or "No it bad" but at least in a thread you actually have to defend your opinion and give reasons it's good/bad and prove you're not just shitposting and lying out of your ass.
>>78664810 >Superman is incredibly hard to write well which is why his comic sucks for decades at a time Confirmed casual. Superman, Batman, and Daredevil have the largest stable of notable comics. You're describing Iron Man, which is under some sort of curse, and was marked for dead by Civil War, before RDJ saved him (fucking Bendis is the best thing to happen to him in the comics; even Demon In the Bottle is a difficult read), or even Spider-Man, who's gone through the like of Slott, One More Day, and the Clone Saga for decades on end.
>GL sucks And yet Geoff Johns Green Lantern was DC's cashcow, along with Batman. I could see CW doing constructs with 90s CG.
>How far can you get with Barry Allen before you come to "And he runs really fast?" Have you watched the series?
Unfortunately. Barry is so bland in that series. It's like watching a piece of toast in a red suit. Thawne was the most interesting character in that show by a long shot. The rest are just meh, except maybe Cop Dad.
Are you really claiming that Superman wasn't completely shit for the entire silver age until Byrne rebooted him in the 80s?
Superman has the occasional good story but for the most part Superman goes long lengths of time being completely forgettable. Combined with the aging of the comic reader demographic (most comic readers have aged out of the 8-12 year old Superman wish fulfillment fantasy) and Superman struggles to get solid traction with current audiences.
This isn't to say that Superman can't be done right but Superman origin stories are generally god awful and how often do you want to sit through a Lex Luthor vs Superman movie?
>>78665366 >Spider-Man has a better ratio of good stories:bad stories than Superman does
Difficult to beat a collection of books like Secret Identity, Red Son, All Star Superman, Superman For All Seasons, For the Man Who Has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Brainiac, Last Son, Men of Tomorrow, Man of Steel, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, and Birthright. The thing with Superman is that he's such a famous character that everyone wants to write him, so he ends up getting guys like Alan Moore and Grant Morrison.
>>78665376 So was Batman. DC, in general, was shit throughout the Silver Age, but the Bronze Age yielded the like of Must There Be a Superman.
>>78665439 >statistically significant sample size How many people even post in these threads? More than 729?
>the one trying to say Man of Steel isn't universally shat on by 4chan is the bigger retard You're admittedly ignoring any evidence that contradicts your preconceptions and basing your opinion on absolutely nothing.
>>78661847 That's because everybody expected prime Nolan for some reason. I expected a Zach Snyder movie (either a mostly shot-for-shot adaptation of an existing work or a visually stunning standalone with a standard-to-dull story). I got a Zach Snyder movie and was satisfied. The fights were phenominal and Cavill wore the cape well. Its only real problem was Pa Kent, partially because his character was an idiot and partially because I just don't like Kevin Costner.
And if WB had any balls it would've been a good start to a King Superman arc, which would've led to a much better Batman v Superman than what we're getting.
>>78664617 See, the problem with your thinking is that it's bogged down by the idea that if you're a DC fan you have to like Man of Steel. I propose it's just the opposite, and if if you like Superman comics or cartoons, you're more likely to find fault in Man of Steel.
Case in point I think DC has better TV shows, better video games, better cartoons and better comics than its competition. I also think Man of Steel is a trainwreck, and the train was carrying nothing but shit. So what side do I fit in on this shitty console war battlefront?
>>78663262 >Zod being murdered. Zod being murdered is a problem "Self defense or defense of others is murder" Your a piece of worthless despicable trash you know this? >mainly due to there being no build up Why the fuck should there be build up? Its meant to surprise the audience, why the fuck would we want to foreshadow it?
>>78664378 >Yes, there is. General, critic, and /co/ all are in agreement that it sucked. 161 FRESH 128 ROTTEN Is not a agreement on anything, it is split down the middle controversy. And the actual quality of the film is even more on the fresh side as at least a 3rd of the rotten reviews did not review it on its own pros and cons, but on how much it sucked their nostalgic bias dicks.
> Faora Speaking of whom, Antje Traue just did her first nude scene. Lingers on the guy's ass a bit too much but this is still a nice seen. http://watchscenes.com/antje-traue-nude-scene-in-weinberg/ Another sex scene, but no nudity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2YPgp368Gk
>>78668707 I did not dismiss all the reviews, I said a 3rd of them. Every poor review I have read, said its not light enough and never should have been attempted because "not muh" that is the fucking essence of bias. They did not say it was a poorly executed serious film, they are saying it was poorly executed BECAUSE it was serious.
>>78668831 No, it's just that you're so deep in denial it has affected your reading comprehension.
You see, the Donner comparisons are there to showcase how wrong Snyder did the tone of the movie, because when you do a movie with themes like hope, christianity and messianic figures, you don't go for a destruction porn movie.
>>78669036 >because when you do a movie with themes like hope, christianity and messianic figures, you don't go for a destruction porn movie. There is no point in a bright beacon of hope in a bright hopeful world.
The point is to show him badly struggling to do great things but strives hard and does so anyway. Someone who can save the day no sweat, no hardship and no consequence is not relatable and it not as well written narrative wise.
The Christianity and messiah aspects is to show his potential, while the film shows you the reality, that he is just a everyman in a very bad world trying to do good.
Superman is the worst case of untapped potential I've ever seen. DC/WB keeps trying to shove the Superman peg into the Batman hole and it just doesn't work. Superman is not Batman.
You know who would love Superman if he was marketed towards them? Kids. Kids would fucking love Superman. Kids fucking love John Cena and his character is that he's literally Superman. An animated Superman film in a similar vein as Incredibles would make all of the money.
>>78670051 >DC/WB keeps trying to shove the Superman peg into the Batman hole and it just doesn't work. Superman is not Batman. There IS NO POINT IN A BRIGHT BEACON OF HOPE IN A BRIGHT HOPEFUL WORLD. They are not making Superman himself dark or batman like, they are making the world around him dark.
>>78670224 >There IS NO POINT IN A BRIGHT BEACON OF HOPE IN A BRIGHT HOPEFUL WORLD. Great. Start the world off shitty, and better off in the end because the beacon character brings light to it. Instead, what did we get again?
>>78670390 >>78670448 "Saving 7-8 Billion lives doesn't inspire hope" The ENTIRE point of the film, is giving us a flawed Superman who can't do everything perfectly every time, but he still does his fucking best and saved virtually the entire human race on his first freaking day on the job.
He saved them from a threat he caused and they know he caused it. Are you brain damaged? People would be terrified that he was around and could destroy them with a thought. There was literally nothing to get the people on his side and it's all going to be done off screen with fluff pieces written by the Daily Planet.
>>78663701 >Is it so hard to believe we might have one autistic guy that keeps showing up for a whole lot of them? That's one option, but as with Shit Wars guy, sometimes people just take up the cause and keep posting just because they find it hilarious.
>>78670863 >If I wanted a Hyperion movie, I'd ask for one. This is nothing like Hyperion, nothing so far suggest this Superman is even remotely considering subjugating the earth for the greater good, which is Hyperion's whole thing. This is Superman with the realism of JMS's Hyperion but not the personality or goals.
>>78670907 >>portraying Superman as someones who cares more about getting booty than saving lives is a good portrayal "Kissing the 3rd person in your entire life that you have ever trusted out of a need for comfort and stability after you both almost die in a black hole seconds before is "getting booty" REALLY?
> He saved them from a threat he caused No Zod is a sentient being who made his own choices, this is like saying im the bad guy if a unintentionally leave my yard tools out and they get seen and stolen and used to murder people with.
> There was literally nothing to get the people on his side The fact that he turned himself over to the military by his own hand knowing he would be turned over to Zod. The fact that he did not let Zod destroy the world.
>>78670942 >He was petty, vengeful... One single time he was such with the truck. And that is after a life time of putting up with abuse and not doing anything back. >and cowardly Not punching down on those immeasurably weaker then you is not cowardice.
MoS is one of the few movies where Rotten Tomatoes' inherent flaws shine through.
Read the actual reviews, instead of spouting a percentage. You'll find that the majority of the critics who gave the film a negative review did so because they disliked the tone and direction that Snyder was taking with Superman. Very, very few critics actually said that the movie was bad on a technical level.
In terms of storytelling, worldbuilding, and visuals, MoS is fantastic.
>>78663701 >loves using words like "epic" I have seen hundreds of people use that word. But I am the guy your referring to. And I swear right now, I have not created a single one of these threads, I just respond to them when they come up. And you are genuinely a piece of shit if you think fans of serious toned Superman do not have the right to be catered to after 5 movies catering to you. That is the definition of selfish.
Are you faggots retarded? Snyder borrows heavily from Miracleman, which is Alan Moore's take on Superman in the real world. >inb4 it's supposed to be shazam ur too dumb golden age marvelman was shazam Read the actual comic, instead of just reading the wikipedia article.
Superman and Zod's battle in Metropolis is literally Miracleman #15 brought to life.
>>78671525 >Snyder borrows heavily from Miracleman AH! That's the one. Thank you. If I wanted a Miracleman movie, I would have asked for one. If Snyder wanted to make a Miracleman movie, he should have, but making a Miracleman movie and dressing it like Superman? Pic related.
>>78671421 They were literally trembling as they embraced for fucks sake, people even Superman need comfort after a traumatic experience. This is literally the first time in Clark's life that he has been in danger of truly dying, Give the guy a fucking break.
>>78671664 But some of us don't fucking want traditional Superman, we want a realistic relatable version of him, that doesn't make him less of the character. It simply makes him a different incarnation of him, Jesus Christ what the fuck is with your aversion to change.
>>78671804 >we want a realistic relatable version of him, If you can't find the current version relateable, that is your failure as a human being not the character's failure as a character. >that doesn't make him less of the character It doesn't. It just makes him unfaithful to the character. Pic related is nearly every other "not Superman there is" Maybe one of them would be more to your liking. Clearly you love the costume, but not the man who wears it.
>>78671804 Explain to me how your elderly father dying of a heart attack is less realistic and relatable than him being sucked up by him choosing to be sucked up by an out of nowhere tornado rather than allow you to save him.
>>78671435 MoS is one of the movies that fanbase retardness shines through.
You see, if you go "fuck you I liked it", I'll undestand that. The guy may have shit taste, maybe I have shit taste, maybe he's too invested in superman, who knows.
But you guys go "fuck you, it's a masterpiece, everyone else is wrong". and this sums up your entire fanbase.
You are so fixated on two or three points and those are the only ones you're capable of bringing on.
What, someone points out legitimate flaws of the movie? NOT MUH SUPERMAN Someone says a marvel movie was better? MARVELDRONE Someone says he didn't like the tone? DONNERFAG
I mean, you guys are so fucking deep in your own asses, you don't even make the slightest sense anymore. Maybe you should make a forum of your own and go circlejerk there instead of busting everyones balls.
>>78671915 >If you can't find the current version relateable New 52? I do. >that is your failure as a human being not the character's failure as a character. >Clearly you love the costume, but not the man who wears it. No its not, I can relate to his cause, but I can't relate to his struggle, because there is no struggle, Reeves and traditional Superman literally can do anything and everything right, it is entire shtick that he can resolve any problem without killing or making hard decisions at all. I like his idealism, I like his cause, I have a problem when writers refuse to test or break that, Mos did that, they gave him realistic real world options and he did the best thing under the circumstances.
These threads always have people dealing in absolutes. It's always "YOU'RE A TOTAL FUCKING IDIOT WHO HASN'T SEEN THE MOVIE" and "FUCKING SHILL, WHY SO INSECURE AND DELUSIONAL?" Things aren't so black and white guys.
I liked the movie a lot. I know it has flaws, but I think it's pretty good. Not bad, not great or awesome, just good.
>>78670756 You keep saying it and keep ignoring that a billion is a statistic because to admit otherwise would require you to understand how basic characterization and how it relates to building a narrative works.
Makes you real easy to pick out of the zeitgeist, so please, just get a trip already.
>>78669325 >The Christianity and messiah aspects is to show his potential, while the film shows you the reality, that he is just a everyman in a very bad world trying to do good. So the visual symbolism is intentionally antithetical to the narrative? That's stupid as fuck.
>>78671980 >But you guys go "fuck you, it's a masterpiece, everyone else is wrong". and this sums up your entire fanbase. I am one of the strongest defenders of the film, I am probably the one that curses the most, and I think it is fucking superb and even I do not think it is a masterpiece or perfect. And I never said everyone else is wrong, I'm saying they are wrong if they are judging it for what it is not instead of what it is and set out to be.
>>78671980 >What, someone points out legitimate flaws of the movie? NOT MUH SUPERMAN Superman not being able to save everyone, Superman causing a tiny bit of damage himself and Superman accidentally leading Zod to earth are not legitimate flaws with the writing or film making.
>>78672179 I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK IF IT IS A STATISTIC, its still a massive fucking accomplishment. I don't fucking want to see them nuter and de claw Zod so Superman will be able to save people during there fight, It makes immeasurably more sense that he would keep the fight between them and hold Zod's attention after the general threatened to kill them all one by one.
>>78672084 >Reeves and traditional Superman literally can do anything and everything right Except save his father from dying from a heart attack. Like in the first Donner Superman. Except balancing a civilian life and his heroic deeds. Otherwise why would he have to give up his powers in Superman II?
The fact of the matter is everything you like about Man of Steel was done in the Donner movies. It just wasn't hamfisted and cringy as fuck.
>>78672362 >>yeah let kids die it's all good buddy He was not seriously suggesting it, he blurted out maybe to get his point across. >>nah don't save the dog let the old man do it, and don't save both of us He wanted Clark to stay with Martha more then the Dog. >>just don't save anyone Not if more people could die as a result of your existence being revealed.
>How can it add to his confliction that doing the right thing would cause more harm than doing nothing when he doesn't do the right thing? The world might tear itself a new ass if we found out aliens existed with this much power. Pa said "this will change everything, science, religion"
>>78672509 >He was not seriously suggesting it, he blurted out maybe to get his point across. His point being "yeah let those kids died cuz secret identity", a great foundation for being a hero >He wanted Clark to stay with Martha more then the Dog. Clark could save the dog and be back in seconds >Not if more people could die as a result of your existence being revealed. My other favourite foundation of Superman - "let some people die so more people don't die". How inspiring
>>78672384 A thematically weightless accomplishment. The movie was written around its ending and the ending doesn't even have the punch it needs to be effective. Are we really suppsoed to be surprised that Clark killed Zod? Superheroes in movies almost ALWAYS kill the villains. Boo hoo he's conflicted? So's every character.
All Snyder they did was make him more generic, not less.
>>78672451 >Except save his father from dying from a heart attack. Like in the first Donner Superman He could have gone back in time and saved him. The point is he can always resolve battles and conflict the right way. His dad's heart attack was nether.
>Otherwise why would he have to give up his powers in Superman II? There was absolutely NO reason for him to do so, that sub plot was absolutely unbearably fucking stupid in Superman 2.
>>78672509 >He was not seriously suggesting it, he blurted out maybe to get his point across. Kevin Costner is a good enough actor that we can tell when he's blurting something out. There was like five seconds of forethought before he said that. That's not blurting out anything.
>>78672509 >The world might tear itself a new ass if we found out aliens existed with this much power. >Pa said "this will change everything, science, religion" Would've been nice to get that in the actual movie rather than having to wait 3 years for them to get around to it.
>>78672605 >The point is he can always resolve battles and conflict the right way. His dad's heart attack was nether. Gee it's almost as if they were trying to say that despite all his powers there are some problems that Superman is just as human in dealing with and can't do shit about, thus making the character more relatable.
>There was absolutely NO reason for him to do so Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex.
>>78672566 >His point being "yeah let those kids died cuz secret identity", a great foundation for being a hero >My other favourite foundation of Superman - "let some people die so more people don't die". How inspiring Its not meant to be inspiring or a foundation of Superman, its meant to be a burden that Superman fears that gives him justified Pause, a Billion Muslims declaring war on the human race to spite the being that proves their god false is no small thing.
>>78672730 Pause is just that, pause. A MOMENTARY halting of action. Man of Steel Supes doesn't act at all until there's no better options. And sometimes not even then. He's really, really passive as a protagonist.
Pa Kent being conflicted on Clark saving the kids but sacrificing his life to save a dog is bad characterization Clark not showing to care about all the death and destruction around, but devastated with Zod's murder, and making out with Lois 10 seconds after is bad characterization Zod being genetically engineered to ensure his species survives, but does everything he can to doom them just for the codex is bad characterization.
Lois and Jor El are just walking plot conveniences. Jor El shows up in time to warn Clark about Zod, Lois appears everywhere the plot needs her to be without a serious justification. The messianic/christian themes are hamfisted and lack subtlety, and this is the definition of bad writing.
The movie's pacing in the first half is out of place, with constant flashbacks to give depth to the characters, again with total lack of sutlety. Compare all that clusterfuck to how TWS introduces Sam Wilson.
The direction is totally bland, with only exceptions the scenes where it's dictated by marketing , those scenes are even worse.
The final battle lacks one of the most important elements of a good fight, urgency. In the whole fight you know that neither Clark nor Zod will get hurt, and everything else just doesn't have enough exposition to be considered important.
and those are just from the top of my head, and i didn't even touch the bad acting or the terrible dialogue.
>>78673148 Superman vs Elite is a shit movie which only exists so comicbook authors can avoid being checkmated by 8yolds asking "If Superman can do anything, why can't he change the world to be better?" The answer is, changing the world to be better is EVIL. Duh, everyone knows that, only two extremes exist, either you're fully complacent with status quo and don't change anything, or go full psycho and murder dictators. No other way. Too bad.
>>78673410 What debate? - it's generally considered average, with perhaps a few good things going for it (e.g., Cavill as Supes). The only reason it keeps coming back up is the a DCfags who just can't let go and are still trying to push it with the power of full-blown deep spectrum autism, and the trolls who do the same simply because they think they're baiting us ironically while backhandedly angering said DC fags.
-The opening Krypton sequence is ultimately pointless and could be cut entirely, bringing the film to a more reasonable runtime -Jor El immediately disproves the entire basis of his own anti-GE philosophy by beating the genetically engineered master soldier in a fistfight -Jor El had absolutely no reason to save the codex whatsoever as it represented and perpetuated everything he believed was wrong with Kryptonian culture; he should have left it there to rot, but didn't because then there'd be no movie -At some point the filmmakers got so confused about the natural vs genetic engineering theme that Faora said something retarded about evolution always winning despite being made by a process which expressly disallows evolution -Seven Eleven! Sears! Ihop! -Jor El takes over the Kryptonian scout vessel to show Clark his suit, and then after that happens a robot powers up and starts killing the shit out of Lois. Why did Jor El want to kill Lois so bad? -Pa Kent shows the space USB drive to a metallurgist who tells him it's made of something never seen on Earth before. Said metallurgist either then suffered total amnesia, or was killed by Pa Kent. -The crux of Superman's "arc" is meant to be his desire to respect his father's words and stay hidden conflicting with his desire to help people, which is totally ruined when he reveals his powers just to fuck up some prick's truck. Fuck you, Pa.
>>78673769 Evolution and Natural Selection aren't the same thing. Natural Selection is simply the mechanism by which evolution occurs, in Earth's environment. Artificial selection and genetic engineering are still evolution.
>>78674140 Liked Dawn of the Dead better. Tangentially, I didn't see the 300 equal but I've heard a few times that it's better than the original. Considering I like Eva Green, I wouldn't be surprised. Is it?
>>78673446 >which only exists so comicbook authors can avoid being checkmated by 8yolds asking "If Superman can do anything, why can't he change the world to be better?" Actually you're thinking of Superman: Peace on Earth.
>>78674294 >>78663262 >An hour too long with at least 45 minutes of no-brainer cuts Pacing is fine. People don't remember their childhoods linearly. >-A confused mess of a plot with a majority of actions and dialogue conflicting with character's explicitly stated motivations as well as the basic themes of the movie Uh, great buzzwords? No specifics. >-Edited into an out-of-order mess that confuses whatever narrative line may have existed previously There are three different storylines happening simultaneously, in order. >-Tonally inconsistent at best, schizophrenic at worst Sums up your existence. But seriously, that's literally just buzzwords strung together. >Zod being murdered is a problem, mainly due to there being no build up or consequence The build up was the entire movie. The fight scene also builds up to that point. There was absolutely no other way it could have ended. Consequences will be depicted in the next movie. It'd be pretty hard to fit that into the denouement. If this was Marvel it would be post-credits material. >>78672937 >Pa Kent being conflicted on Clark saving the kids but sacrificing his life to save a dog is bad characterization Agreed. Tornado scene is bad. But it's one bad scene in a very good movie. >Clark not showing to care about all the death and destruction around, but devastated with Zod's murder, and making out with Lois 10 seconds after is bad characterization What did you want, an hour of Clark crying while walking through the ruins of Metropolis? >Zod being genetically engineered to ensure his species survives, but does everything he can to doom them just for the codex is bad characterization. The codex is the species. In his mind he was doing everything to bring back Krypton. >Jor El shows up in time to warn Clark about Zod, Lois appears everywhere the plot needs her to be without a serious justification. MoS had significantly less plot conveniences than other movies in the genre.
>>78675556 >Agreed. Tornado scene is bad. But it's one bad scene in a very good movie. I didn't actually mind the tornado scene. Pa Kent didn't know he was going to die, and when he realized, he made the decision to sacrifice himself to protect Clark's secret. He gave Clark the chance to choose to be a hero when he is more mature, which he does. I'm not really sure what is wrong with that.
My critiques, overall I enjoyed the film: >Zod literally saying "Either I die or you do" is way too hamfisted >The Flashbacks coupled with the different jobs Superman was working made the first act seem really janky. >The "he's hot" line at the end is completely out of context in the film >Lois and Clark had no real chemistry and she was a little too involved in the plot >I'm not really sure why the Krypto's needed to terraform earth. Clark was on board with helping them out until they said they would fuck earth up, even though they didn't need to do that.
Overall the visuals were great and the world building was consistent, a solid start for an extended universe.
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