And now, a moment of silence for Cade Skywalker, Jacen & Jaina Solo, Mara Jade, and all the other heroes and villains who have been erased from the Star Wars EU due to the revised continuity of the new movie.
You are gone, but not forgotten.
Why is everyone so fucking butthurt about this.
its not like JJ is riding around in a Disney bought caravan burning all the books and comics from the EU, they still exist. and will always exist.
Greeting: Hello Meatbags,
Introduction: I am referred to as H-CASH-47, and I detest every single one of you.
Observation: All of you are poorly hygienic, mentally handicapped, fleshy blobs who partake in the visual processing of idiotic images every second of their day. You are the reason the meatbags of the galaxy created assassin droids.
Query: Have any of you meatbags truly had sexual relations with a female member of your species?
Conjecture: It is possible that degrading others due to one?s own shortcomings is enjoyable, however you increase this to an entirely new capacity.
Statement: Said actions are more pathetic than pleasuring one?s self to photographs on social networks.
Eager Invitation: Do not remain a stranger.
Goading Statement: By all means, attempt to damage my personage. As a droid, I am closer to perfection that you could ever possibly be.
Proud Boast: This unit exterminated 104 people within a period of one standard month and is eager to add to that count.
Query: What physical activities do you engage in, other than "self pleasuring to unclothed illustrations"?
Additional Boast: I am also estimated to have been programmed with an IQ of over 267, and have a visually attractive companion (Whom just blew one of my fuses; the act of which was extremely agreeable).
Degrading Remark: You are all stupid meatbags who should self terminate at once.
Statement: Thank you for receiving this message.
Explanation: The accompanying image depicts me and my female meatbag slave.
Jap covers ftw.
Everyone is so beautiful, and better preserved than their real life counterparts.
if you're a longtime SW fan, you would have invested considerable love and affection into these characters who have been fleshed out and brought to life through dozens of books and games. pretty obvious why everyone is bummed about it.
Tag and Bink are still canon though, right?
We also read capeshit comics where timelines are rebooted every 5 years and characters are erased, de-aged, rendered obsolete, turned black, turned gay, turned female, etc.
By virtue of being fans of capeshit, we cannot form any attachment to any fictional character because they're always being changed at the whim of the publisher every ten years.
And you expect us to give a rat's ass about Mara Jade and Anakin Solo? Nigga please.
This constant rebooting didn't happen in the star wars EU, at least certainly not to the same extent as typical capeshit.
I grew up reading this shit.
I grew up reading about the Solo kids and their faggy disney-channelesque adventures.
I understand the need for disney to clear the air, but I am nevertheless sad that it's this has been killed.
They grew up and got edgy, and so did I.
NJO had good parts and bad, but I was thankful that it finally drew all the many loose threads scattered by 30 years of collaborative writing.
Because they're cunts. When Lucas made TPM he didn't get rid of the EU, just retconned the shit that didn't fit with the movies (Boba Fett's origin, the nature of the Clone Wars, etc)
>They needed to clean house.
No, they didn't. Maybe everything post-ROTJ but everything else was just petty.
They probably won't bring ANY of it back, "so it doesn't confuse the new kids that we want to milk".
It's disney: they cater to the lowest common denominator.
Think about it.
It's too messy (it isn't, but it is for the lazy) to be selective on what to keep and what to relegate to "Legends" status.
The reason they had to do this was because of threads like this. If they didn't erase the EU but wanted to make their own story, they would have fanboys crying why x doesn't match with y in z book.
Personally the only EU stuff I'm sad is gone is Gendy Clone Wars and KOTOR but I couldn't give a shit about the rest
Oh me too. TCW was like a sort-of sequel to Gendy Wars in the first place and works if you think of Season 1 as before TCW and season 2 after it but I know Disney doesn't see it that way so, whatever
He didn't get his scar in Genndywars.
And now a moment of thunderous ovation for FN 2187, Rey and Poe. Your new Stars of the War
>Kyle Katarn is no longer canon
>his origins now split between Finn and maybe Kanan I guess
This dont jive with me.
a) Lucas would change anything at the drop of a hat if it meant he could sell more toys b) Lucas doesn't even have any say anymore since he sold SW to Disney for 4billion a while ago
>Kyle Katarn is Finn
They are both ex-Stormtroopers, but that's where the similarities end.
Katarn had a family on Sulon, whereas Finn was basically kidnapped as an infant. Kyle had actual combat and leadership experience when he soldiered for the Empire, whereas Finn says and is proven to have never fired his blaster. Working for the Alliance, and later the New Republic, Katarn was shown to a fearless expert at infiltration and sabotage, whereas Finn is pretty much a bumbling coward.
They are not gone. Both the new Disney and Legends universes exist in parallel. If you can accept that the Marvel Cinematic Universe, 616 Universe and Ultimate Universe all exist in a way, you should be able to accept these two universes, even if there is some overlap in material that's in both. In this case you can even assume elements from Legends exists in the new Disney world until contradicted. Canon is whatever you want it to be anyway. Before Disney got it there was probably some obscure "canon" Ewok comic that was really stupid and that you wouldn't accept as real within 'your' Star Wars Universe, and nobody would force you to. All this does is giving new creators in the future a chance to expand upon Star Wars lore without having to take every detail from the former EU into account. They can still reintroduce the cool stuff, but they can also leave out the convoluted stuff.
>for encouraging new content instead of circlejerking over the Same Old Shit thst will never get a continuation of any sort
The idea that some books characters have a monopoly on "spawn of the OT" cast is ridiculous, as is the notion of "fallen Jedi".
Where the fuck did you think the were going with the movies?
Yes, there was a lot of garbage in the EU, but relegating it all in its entirety to the dumpster just doesn't make sense unless you're a pseudo-nerd hipster who only started liking Star Wars in 2015.
Star Wars EU already received a soft reboot when the Prequels came out.
Suddenly a whole lotta shit with the Marvel Comics, those Saturday morning cartoons and everything involving Boba Fett had to be ignored or overwritten.
So the idea that Star Wars EU had never undergone a substantial overhaul until now is a loada crap.
I disagree. I've been a fan of Star Wars for years and a great majority of the EU is trash that steps way out of the boundaries of what is known as "Star Wars."
Disney made a huge investment and with that investment is the idea that they should be able to do whatever they want with the characters from here out.
My main problem with TFA is that Han and Luke will no longer be able to share screen time, maybe besides a flash back, if that is even going to happen.
Other than that, I think the way they're taking this is much more interesting that a lot of the EU.
Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the first 3 years of Marvel comics were overwritten when Empire and Jedi came out.
The Special Editions overwrote everything even further.
The Prequels did more damage after that.
The EU has been fucked with up, down and sideways since practically the beginning. There was never a single, stable continuity; it's always been retconned and ignored and messed with to adhere to what the new movies have come up with.
Quite the opposite, I'm 45. I saw the original at a drive in sitting in the back of a Ford Gran Torino station wagon.
Most of the EU lacked the space opera feel of the original trilogy, which is why most of it fails.
KOTOR was pretty good, though. The New Jedi and Vong crap was...well...crap.
KOTOR's pretty much the only thing worth preserving. And luckily being set 4000 years before the films it doesn't really contradict anything. Only the post-ROTJ EU got decimated really and apart from Thrawn that was universally shit so no loss.
Threadly reminder that Cade did nothing wrong.
If there's anything I've learned on 4chan, its that the Star Wars fanbase is the worst on this fucking planet. These fucks make Kingdom Hearts fans look like philistine
>first Star Wars film in 30+ years to have an ounce of cinematic integrity comes out
>instantly nitpicked to death and shat on for using concepts that happened to be in the 300+ EU materials that were spawned by the biggest movie of all time
>visions have never existed in star wars
>UGH FUCK JJ IS A HACK WHAT ANOTHER DEATH STAR??????
>praises books that made lol blow up da sun lasers, luuke, palpatine clones etc etc
Premonitions are not flashbacks, you geniuses.
The visions when she touched the lightsaber, sure. Maybe some kind of "Force fingerprints" left behind by Anakin and Luke resulted in Rey seeing some shit. But what about when Maz mentioned that whoever Rey was waiting for on Jakku isn't coming back, and it shows Rey as a little girl crying after that ship?
>Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the first 3 years of Marvel comics were overwritten when Empire and Jedi came out.
Splinter of the Mind's Eye was still regarded as loose canon in the old EU. Marvel Wars comics existed before the actual Expanded Universe and were never really considered part of it, except where explicitly stated in the old Holocron.
>The Special Editions overwrote everything even further.
Other than Han shot first and the later Hayden ghost switcheroo, most of their changes had little impact on lore.
>The Prequels did more damage after that.
The prequels did very little damage at all, actually. George always told the EU department that the hundred or so years before A New Hope were off limits, which is why any EU prequel material took place even further in the past where it's impact could only be residually felt on the prequel era to the point where one could more or less ignore it. And the EU department had generally worked in George's ideas into the established EU timeline. The nature of the Sith in the prequels is explained through the Darth Bane saga and the differences between the Jedi Order of the prequel era and the Tales of the Jedi era are explained by a reformative period that began 1,000 years before ANH which is also when the Darth Bane saga takes place. Really, if there's one thing George did that monkeyed up the timeline it was The Clone Wars cartoon, but even there, the EU department had already started fitting in stuff from the TCW into the established timeline and working out various kinks. Elements of the prequels were also worked into the Post-ROTJ expanded material, where in later books it's shown how Luke thought of the Jedi Order we saw in Episodes 1 to 3 and why he chose not to emulate it and even having R2-D2 show Luke the recording of Anakin strangling Padme.
There were plenty of kinks that still needed to be worked out, but that was mostly confined to particular sections of the timeline.
>And somehow TFA is worse?
Rey was a mary sue!
Not like 9 year old annakin skywalker piloting a ship on autopilot to achieve a devastating military victory.
He did a spin, that's a good trick!
>TFA has been called out by dozens of critics for
>But what about when Maz mentioned that whoever Rey was waiting for on Jakku isn't coming back, and it shows Rey as a little girl crying after that ship
That happens during the vision m8, you're misremembering the movie.
>TFA has been called out by dozens of critics for being nothing but a blatant, manufactured cash grab.
"Chewie, we're home."
Nobody can ever point out anything wrong with this besides a stammering "b-but it's baaad!"
yeah, like Star Wars is high brow entertainment and not a cheesy pulp space opera with all sorts of dramatic twists and turns, huh?
>Darth Maul on bionic legs after being cut in two
George and Filoni actually made this canon and it's considered canon by the NuEU under Disney because CG TCW is part of their timeline.
You know, I spent a good seventeen seconds scratching my brain trying to think of who Cade Skywalker was. At first I was thinking 'he means Ben Skywalker right?' because he wasn't on that list. But the name just didn't sound right and eventually it came to me. Cade Skywalker... 'oh. The worst part of the Legacy comics and also the central character'. But him aside, yes. A tragedy we lost alot of good characters.
You're the only one doing anything resembling samefagging.
>The prequels did very little damage at all, actually
Other than completely retconning Boba Fett's origin.
He used to be a Storm Trooper named Jaster Meerel who killed his commanding officer and then changed his identity and became a bount hunter.
Prequels completely ignored and retconned that.
Clones are the weakest form of writing. That's why it's bad. When death has no consequence, why should anyone give a shit?
Especially in a universe where the Jedi train their whole lives in hoping to become one with the force?
You're delusional. I can continue to write why its terrible but you'd just defend it like your opinion somehow means more than anyone who thinks the EU is garbage.
>blatant, manufactured cash grab because it paid homage to the older movies
the two critiques of this movie are
A) Rey is not a very good protagonist
B) there's a death star at the end
RIP post-Jedi Wedge Antilles
Rogue Squadron TV show
>pacing was awful after Jakka
>at times felt like it took place in a broom closet
>LITERALLY the trench again
>BIGGER BADDER UNCUT DEATH PLANET
>Rey mastering the force while being interrogated
>all those horrible horrible "throwbacks"
i can continue with much more the movie was fine but it had its glaring problems dont act like it was some fucking masterpiece crafted by Zeus
the chessboard was more tasteful than making Boba Fett the child of the guy who made all the clones for the clone army of the fabled Clone Wars
>When death has no consequence, why should anyone give a shit?
The point of the Sheev clones was that Sheev was trying to escape death and rule as emperor forever.
>Especially in a universe where the Jedi train their whole lives in hoping to become one with the force?
Sheev's not a Jedi
>I can continue to write why its terrible but you'd just defend it like your opinion somehow means more than anyone who thinks the EU is garbage.
Sounds more like you can't defend your opinion and are just backing out shouting "OPINIONS" Of course, that doesn't change the fact that your opinion is shit.
So, I have to ask, are you implying that he;s actually like an intern or whatever paid by Disney to shill on 4chan, or that he's just someone with a bias towards the new status quo from Disney?
I know very little about EU, but she looks like a best girl.
With horrible writing. Anyone with an ounce of brain could see that, except for yourself.
You ask someone why it's terrible, they tell you why it's terrible and you dismiss it. You're retarded.
of course, but TFA was not bad
people may not like it because
>FUCK HOMAGES!!!!!!!!!! FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!! TRENCH RUN MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but it doesn't make the film a bad piece of work
>mercenary for hire
>part of the Rebel Alliance
>member of the New Republic
>second only to Luke
>so he's a former Stormtrooper, a mercenary, and an AMAZING Jedi all in one character
You know characters are good characters because they can do aything and they're totally the most badass at everything. That's what makes a good character!
Yeah, I'll take Finn over Kyle Sue thank you.
>>pacing was awful after Jakku
They do spend a little too much time at Maz Kanta's castle for what is supposed to be a pit stop.
>>at times felt like it took place in a broom closet
wuh? Force Awakens had plenty of wide open sets.
>>LITERALLY the trench again
>>BIGGER BADDER UNCUT DEATH PLANET
>>Rey mastering the force while being interrogated
She figured out the mindtrick from Kylo Ren doing it on her, yeah.
>>all those horrible horrible "throwbacks"
Horrible, horrible, is an opinion.
>Who knows, really? The latter is more likely but the former is somewhat possible, although why an intern would shill their movie in some random 4chan board I don't know.
When Amazing Spider-Man 2 was coming out there was always a thread getting posted trying to steer popular opinion towards liking the movie, once the movie was out for a week suddenly all the chatter dropped off.
4chan is not a secret club, it's a hugely trafficked website.
>Star Wars fanbase is the worst on this fucking planet. These fucks make Kingdom Hearts fans look like philistine
Well, bro, now that the Mouse owns SW you can look forward to the merge of those two fan bases.
fine ill leave throwbacks out
in terms of the broom closet yeah they had nice open shots but i don't really remember the Rebel planet all that well, the not Hoth had the interrogation chamber right next to the thing they had to blow up, and JJ has shit sense with scale, my autism flared when you were able to see the the LIGHT beams from the new deathstar blow up the planets from SYSTEMS away
>With horrible writing. Anyone with an ounce of brain could see that, except for yourself.
It wasn't horrible, nor have you demonstrated how it is horrible.
>You ask someone why it's terrible, they tell you why it's terrible and you dismiss it.
Because you're argument is fucking retarded.
The entire point of Dark Empire was that Sheev had not found the secret to living forever and his method of transferring his spirit to clones was imperfect. He could not escape death or its consequences after having lived his initial lifespan, no matter how many times he transferred his spirit to a new clone because each clone withered and decayed.
And from the point of view of the Star Wars universe, where "there is no death, there is the force" this method of return for Sheev is perfectly plausible.
So you're assessment "When death has no consequence, why should anyone give a shit?" is wrong because in Dark Empire, Sheev COULD NOT escape the consequences of his death, even with clones. And I think the fact that you can make such statements shows that you probably haven't read what you're criticizing.
>There's nothing unique or memorable about it to warrant praise
It introduced Finn and Rey as the main characters for a huge new franchise. (and a little Poe)
With Rian Johnson writing Episode VIII and IX it's gonna be remembered as the setup for everything that came after.
>There's nothing unique or memorable about it to warrant praise
>If the OT is a 8/10, the prequels would be a 2/10, and TFA would be a 5/10
>If the OT is a B, the prequels would be an F, and TFA would be a F
That's how you come across when you grade things on a bell curve.
Well, that lightsabre sure is unique (and maybe memorable) but it certainly does not warrant praise. Other than that dude looks like a Revan (and let's be honest any random Sith Lord) rip off.
>my autism flared when you were able to see the the LIGHT beams from the new deathstar blow up the planets from SYSTEMS away
The Starkiller base was a hyperlight weapon, it fired a beam at hyperspeed.
So yes, they could see the light.
>Literally "I didn't watch the movie"
>Other than that dude looks like a Revan (and let's be honest any random Sith Lord) rip off.
Isn't his entire deal that he wants to be a Vader ripoff and completely fails at it
and Rey and Finn are not interesting characters, and the chance that they will be more interesting in later movies does not make TFA retroactively betters
I stand by that comparison as well. While the prequel fails by being truly horribly written, TFA fails by being so boringly average. For entertainment being unmemorable is as big an issue as being a hot mess.
Agreed? Except Finn, Kylo, and Rey still don't come close to any character in the OT. Lots of movies are better than the prequels, TFA is better than the prequels, but its still not GOOD.
That's a little more fair. I'd still put 7 at the same grade as 6 though
>That happens after the vision, m8.
No it doesn't. What are you talking about?
She sees Kylo Ren right after nigga
>Isn't his entire deal that he wants to be a Vader ripoff and completely fails at it
Yes, because that's an intimidating villain I like to waste two hours watching: a character I spend more time asking why he's even a threat to the main characters and laughing at than actually feeling any tension from.
She's good at everything she did, but she had a big problem of constantly wanting to go back to Jakku even though everybody was telling her not to. It was her biggest flaw and why she got kidnapped in the first place.
>Transferring his spirits to clones
You're doing a perfectly fine job of explaining how stupid it is yourself. Re-read your entire argument as a handguide on "How to be a lazy, shit writer."
>HE COULD NOT ESCAPE THE CONSEQUENCE OF DEATH
LMAO you're retarded.
stormtrooper that noped out the second he realized what he was born to do is interesting
the second coming of anakin but in a galaxy with no jedi order is interesting
they're more interesting than Han and Chewie were in New Hope, or Qui Gon and Obi Wan in Phantom Menace
Nigga you trippin', she has the childhood flashback right after she has the vision in Maz's loot dungeon.
I'll fite u m8, I'll smack u rite in tha gob I will
>B-BUT LEIA HUGGED HER
that scene pissed me off, who the fuck wrote that, i mean the woman's Husband just died and his best fucking friend was right there, But instead of hugging his lifelong friend she hugs the bitch that just came from fucking nowhere and does absolutely nothing for Chewy it felt forced and just trying to make it an emotional scene
>Nigga you trippin', she has the childhood flashback right after she has the vision in Maz's loot dungeon.
It is literally during the vision. I remember the movie. I know exactly when it happens. It's right after she sees the Knights of Ren and all the dead bodies and before the ship she's seeing fly away turns into a red square for some reason and then she sees Kylo in the snow forest
>and Rey and Finn are not interesting characters,
People fucking love Rey & Finn. TFA has near-universally been giving glowing praise for both actors' charisma and characterization.
>and the chance that they will be more interesting in later movies does not make TFA retroactively betters
It will in fact. In its day Empire was polarizing but is now remembered with glowing praise.
Heck, Darth Vader is just a big menacing asshole ANH, nowhere near as sophisticated as he is in the sequels.
>The idea that some books characters have a monopoly on "spawn of the OT" cast is ridiculous, as is the notion of "fallen Jedi".
That has nothing to do with it. If Disney can just destroy all the old timeline or arbitrarily pick and choose whatever it likes, then none of this has any point to it. There's no point really to even watching these new movies. There's no novelty to them because they aren't exploring a time period that hasn't already been explored before. They're not using very original or new ideas cause it seems they're content to just take a few plots from the EU and water them down or rework them with the characters names changed for arbitrary reasons. And if they can just throw out everything, there's no point in getting invested in this new trilogy. It's like how they rebooted Spiderman just to decide "hey, let's reboot it again". In ten years time, what's to stop them from just deciding "hey, let's reboot this shit"
There is literally no reason to care about this movie at all because it has no value.
>TFA fails by being so boringly average.
A huge critical and commercial success.
>For entertainment being unmemorable is as big an issue as being a hot mess.
Hugely popular reception, reignited the franchise, the first of many eagerly anticipated sequels.
Finn is great though. He's the biggest wild card of this entire trilogy.
I seriously still believe Kylo, soly comparing TFA to ANH is more interesting than Vader because the basis for his character is in front of us instead of just being an evil asshole
>Finn, Kylo, and Rey still don't come close to any character in the OT.
Finn got more characterization than anyone in ANH.
Rey is about on par with Leia per ANH.
Poe literally just lived for another sequel, Chewbacca got more to do.
Your selective memory and bias is showing.
Kylo dominates every opponent he faces, including Rey, until the ending when she gets a hold of Luke's lightsaber and channels the force.
>You're doing a perfectly fine job of explaining how stupid it is yourself.
Yeah, no. You're just a fucking moron without any counterargument desperately trying to save face when you already are making yourself look like a pathetic little piece of shit without any sense or knowledge.
Fuck off and go back to watching your shitty written Disney movie for plebs.
>>She was good at everything she did.
She pulled the wrong fuses and unleashed the Rathars.
She panicked and rejected Luke's ligthsaber from Maz Kanata
She was overwhelmed and captured by Kylo Ren.
It's only in their mind duel and climactic fight where she is able to overpower him, and he was severely wounded by Chewie's bowcaster and Finn' strike against his sword arm.
You know there was more to the vision after the Knights of Ren part? Oh no wait, you don't remember because you're linking to fucking Cinemablend
Seriously just download the fucking bootleg.
The fact that you're mad over these shit EU stories being gone is even more funny than your hatred for TFA.
Ok, retard. Go back to reading about your clones with the spirit transfers. Sounds exactly like something a billion dollar company would put on the big screen./s
Kylo heavily relies on the fact that Vader was such a good character, if you use the fact that Kylo only has an evil boner for Vader because he's a badass evil henchman, it makes Kylo look even more shallow. Also his tantrums are really boring to watch.
>So something is good because it's popular?
hurr hurr, you're conflating consensus with praise.
If most people like a thing, then it is mostly well liked.
You can have whatever opinion you like, but you will fall into a minority or majority. To deny so is to be contrarian.
And the majority of people loved Finn & Rey.
>Kylo heavily relies on the fact that Vader was such a good character,
Yes he does but I'm specifically comparing the two characters solely from their first movie to the other which is where I see Kylo as a better character
>go back to watching your shitty written Disney movie for plebs.
Yes, the movie was written to be accessible and liked by the majority of people.
Wow, what shameless capitalists those Disney pigs are, making things most people will enjoy.
I, a patrician star wars fan, know better as I am inherently the superior fan of men with glowing swords.
But you're forgetting that Kylo literally relies on Vader being Luke and Leia's father to even give him depth. If Vader wasn't his grandfather, it would make him more shallow than Vader himself in ANH.
TFA is not Star Wars.
It's more comparable to JJTrek or those awful Marvel movies than Star Wars. Worse it half of it is full off piss poor EU ripoffs.
Star Wars is mo different from the MCU now, a mediocre-terrible movies every year. Disney will run it into the ground.
>Kylo heavily relies on the fact that Vader was such a good character, if you use the fact that Kylo only has an evil boner for Vader because he's a badass evil henchman, it makes Kylo look even more shallow.
Yes, and? Vader is a great character. Kylo 's arc is trying to get to be as great as Vader.
He's got two more movies to develop.
Which is why I can give leeway to him getting "better" in the sequels that will come. But saying he's comparable to OT movie Vader is misleading since he needs more build up to his motivation other than "I love the Dark Side and am a massive Vader fanboy."
>A huge critical and commercial success.
I don't this was said. Maybe for TPM, that's likely but not for AOTC. The prequels were a joke by that point
>Hugely popular reception, reignited the franchise
This definitely wasn't said
>These things were said about the prequels when they came out, too.
My local paper gave Phantom Menace 2 1/2 stars, out of 4.
I'm aware there was initially a shellshocked praise for TPM, but by the time AotC and RotS came out, people had sobered up.
You're being obtuse.
the main tenants for a character to be a mary sue are
>everyone loves them, even if its out of character
>they are better in all fields than all specialists
of those fields
>are the focus of every scene and the plot revolves around them
>succeed at everything
>no meaningful flaws
in roughly that order of relevance.
first point: chewie and han do seem to warm up to her too quick, but that's about it. More people immediately warm up to and trust Finn
second point: she's really good with the Falcon. Better with it than Solo? Maybe, but Solo was old and weary while she's fresh blood and less set in her ways than he. Furthermore Solo is the one who made use of the falcon's biggest strength, break-neck lightspeed manouveres
Is she a better shot than Finn? Nah. She's a good shot, but never pulls off any trick shots. The falcon flip shot was a collaborative effort and the one who pulled the trigger was Finn.
She out-mind-tricked Kylo, and later beat him at a lightsaber dual, but that says more about how weak Kylo is than how strong she is. and Kylo expliciteley hasn't even finished his training yet.
On the third point? No. Scene importance is fairly evenly split between her and Finn, and most of the plot revolves around BB-8.
>succeeds at everything
well, most things, yeah.
>no meaningful flaws
she's stubborn, especially about Jakku, which was a genuine obstacle for her because if she hadn't refused the lightsaber she wouldn't have been captured so easily.
Final verdict? I say close but no banana.
But Kylo does have that motivation. With that logic Vader is a completely awful character because going by ANH he has no motivation at all other than being the bad guy in a kids movie
>The argument was never how liked they are but how good their characterization is.
The original post said the characters were unmemorable, in direct opposition to how well liked they are.
>The fact that you're mad over these shit EU stories being gone is even more funny than your hatred for TFA.
What's funnier is that you actually pretend you know anything about writing when you gobble up stuff like TFA so easily, when it's just a rehashed version of ANH sprinkled with stuff that even many EUfags consider the worst parts of the old EU. Also,
>implying TFAfags like yourself aren't the ones most butthurt when people even so much as mention the old EU
It's your kind that throw a fit when people point out that your new favorite movie is just a blatant cash grab, more so than the prequels or the old EU ever was itself and the fact that you can only defend it with "it's better than the prequels" or "lol, LUUKE!" doesn't do yourself any favors.
>Go back to reading about your clones with the spirit transfers.
I will. Especially since you have absolutely no argument against them besides bitching about people liking what you don't like.
>Sounds exactly like something a billion dollar company would put on the big screen./s
Except I don't think there was any need to make a new movie at all, let alone one based on EU material. The saga is/was over.
This is just rumors and heresay, but evidently they got rid of TOR and the KOTOR era because it conflicted with the direction they want to take the series in with regards to the nature of the force and how it works.
Evidently Filoni and Lucas got really worked up over that one little sidequest in KOTOR where you meet a long dead sith ghost on Korriban and redeem him.
>TFA is not Star Wars.
Cry some more, you scruffy looking nerf herder.
>still using an aluminum heatsink
Which is the point I'm making that comparing Kylo to Vader for only their first movie is retarded. ANH characters were archetypes people liked, but they were hardly given more indepth motivation until the other OT movies released. And Kylo's motivation was being as good of a Dark Side master as Vader was, because he was his grandfather so it gives him a blood relation push to be even more involved with the Dark Side and to prove he truly belongs there.
>I stopped reading after the sentence that had an argument I wanted to refute
Actor charisma goes a long way, Anon. Their performances were intense and provided good, friendly chemistry despite their honestly terrible script.
They're popular because they were likable onscreen, not because they were strong characters.
>Wow, what shameless capitalists those Disney pigs are, making things most people will enjoy.
There's a difference between films made by people with some sort of personal vision that may or may not have broad appeal and movies made almost solely by market researchers and directors who specialize in churning formulaic summer and holiday season blockbusters.
the Sith of Oz spoke of an ;awakening', and the films title indicates that was an awakening of the force. suggests a bunch of people suddenly became more force sensitive than before.
plus the scene after the falcon flip with Finn and Rey both gushing over the other and downplaying their own part as just acting on instinct seemed to suggest both were using the force during the dogfight.
and Finn's moral awakening at the start also seemed to presented as a spiritual awakening on top of that, like, say, he was suddenly brought into contact with an omnipresent power that magnifies good and evil.
It's not absolute, but there was enough stuff there that if the very first scene of the next movie is talking about how Finn is also force sensitive, it wouldn't be out of nowhere.
Vader was an awful character, he was cool, but he had little to no motivation to go after Luke other than his draw towards the Force. As I said, if you cut out the other motivations behind Vader's actions and only use their first movie, it means they're both shallow characters who only do things for evil's sake, just that Kylo has a role model to strive for that he has no real connection to.
>And just what would make them memorable?
Finn, the black stormtrooper, broke /tv/
>The movie's still out so it's too early for anyone to possibly forget
It's star wars, literally one of the most enduring cultural phenomenons in the 21st century.
>Its your kind
You can call The Force Awakens a blatant cash grab while at the same time also saying that the EU is full of horribly written shit. Your simple mind can't seem to grasp that.
>No argument against them
My argument is that it's lazy, terrible writing. I don't understand how you can say that is not a valid criticism. It takes no creativity to clone a character. It's been done a billion times and it takes 0 effort on the writer's part. You're almost as delusional as you are angry.
>I don't think there was any need to make a new movie at all
Lucas was saying for years that he was going to. Don't act like this wasn't always coming. He proved he could not handle his own material with the prequels.
>The saga is/was over
Regardless of your stance on the new movie, this is quite literally the exact opposite of reality. It's raking in millions and the saga is continuing no matter how far in the ground you bury that head of yours to deny it.
>he had little to no motivation to go after Luke other than his draw towards the Force
the only time he focused on Luke was during the trench run. Everywhen else he was focused on the plans R2-D2 had, or on Obi-Wan his old mentor
>There's a difference between films made by people with some sort of personal vision that may or may not have broad appeal and movies made almost solely by market researchers and directors who specialize in churning formulaic summer and holiday season blockbusters.
Everything after the first star war was Lucas selling toys.
Nothing has changed other than who gets the money in their pocket.
I know they Lucas and the TOR head writer hated Kreia with a passion too, since she presented a strong argument that the light side was just as mistaken and dangerous as the dark side
I could have sworn there was a moment he mentioned the Force outside of the trench run. I will be honest and say that I really need to rewatch the unedited ANH to get a feel for what really happened.
>You can call The Force Awakens a blatant cash grab while at the same time also saying that the EU is full of horribly written shit. Your simple mind can't seem to grasp that.
I don't deny there is bad stuff in the EU, but Dark Empire certainly isn't one of them.
>My argument is that it's lazy, terrible writing I don't understand how you can say that is not a valid criticism.
Because your reasons for why it's lazy and terrible writing don't necessarily apply to Dark Empire (which I'm still not convinced you ever read).
>It takes no creativity to clone a character. It's been done a billion times and it takes 0 effort on the writer's part. You're almost as delusional as you are angry.
Please point out to me where in what story before Dark Empire that the same exact plot as Dark Empire was followed. And in that process, point out how Dark Empire lacked any original way of handling such a plotline if it had been done "billions of times" before.
>Lucas was saying for years that he was going to.
He was also saying for years that he wasn't going to.
>He proved he could not handle his own material with the prequels.
I'd rather watch the prequels than TFA. At least they have some consistency with the EU and reflect Lucas' vision.
You're limiting this argument to one piece of fiction. Everyone from Superman to Spider-man to Ellen Ripley has been cloned and it is always noted by a decent majority to be lazy writing.
Not only is it lazy writing, but it doesn't work in the realm of Star Wars because, once again, there are characters who train their entire lives to cheat death. Cloning completely undermines those ideas and for that reason i call them terrible ideas and terrible pieces of fiction.
Keep trying to con yourself into thinking you're the only one that read those horrible EU stories.
Don't know about that for sure. The Sith ghost thing is probably true given the last arc in TCW was all about Yoda learning about how to return as a ghost and the fact that the Sith couldn't do so. Though I heard that Disney and the Star Wars story-group are planning to take the series in a "weird" direction around episode IX with regards to the force.
>That has nothing to do with it. If Disney can just destroy all the old timeline or arbitrarily pick and choose whatever it likes, then none of this has any point to it
I guess there's not. I guess you wasted all your time with Star Wars, and have to go outside and improve yourself now.
You don't have to agree with everything Lucas ever did with the Originals or the Prequels, but George is much more a visionary and much more an artist in the common sense of the term than Abrams or even most directors/writers in Hollywood hope to be.
That's not true, though. It started as a theory about why KOTOR2 was rushed out, with the idea that Lucas was so pissed off at the game (either because it presented gray morality or because it supposedly did a better job with the concept of the Force, depending on which version you're looking at) and he demanded that production on it cease immediately. People started touting it as fact, despite the oddness of Lucas having only caught wind of the game's direction when it was nearly completed, and Chris Avellone confirming that he received numerous notes and suggestions from Lucasfilm and none of them involved the morality or the use of the Force. But people want to have yet another reason to hate Lucas so they'd rather just accept it as fact even if it has no basis in reality.
>Everyone from Superman to Spider-man to Ellen Ripley has been cloned and it is always noted by a decent majority to be lazy writing.
The vast majority of everything is bad. If you can't address the story in question, you're just dismissing it out of hand without providing an actual argument.
>doesn't work in the realm of Star Wars
>doesn't work in the realm of force ghosts and clone wars
>The vast majority of everything is bad
>You're just dismissing it
You just dismissed almost the entirety of my post. Here I'll copy and paste it for you again.
"Not only is it lazy writing, but it doesn't work in the realm of Star Wars because, once again, there are characters who train their entire lives to cheat death. Cloning completely undermines those ideas and for that reason i call them terrible ideas and terrible pieces of fiction."
>Also: Doesnt work in the realm of force ghosts
See above please. Becoming a force ghost is a power provided by those in tune with the light side of the force. Only few jedi have cheated death. You continue to prove my point for me. Why am I even arguing?
>Everyone from Superman to Spider-man to Ellen Ripley has been cloned and it is always noted by a decent majority to be lazy writing.
I don't know who this "decent majority" you're talking about is. Whether you took some kind of poll or just pulled it out your ass. But whether a majority, real or imaginary, finds it lazy is not relevant.
I asked you to point out to me in when and where before Dark Empire there was a clone arc similar to that in Dark Empire. You've brought up Spiderman, whose clone saga was after Dark Empire and Ripley, whose clone story in Resurrection was also created after Dark Empire. I don't read Superman, so you'll have to shed some light on that one.
It is true that cloning villains or heroes has been done many times before, but when it comes to modern clone science fiction. Dark Empire is probably one of the first and follows a very different course than many clone stories before it, where the focus was much more on the social and political aspects of clone technology whereas here cloning is combined with Star Wars own approach to the occult and afterlife.
>but it doesn't work in the realm of Star Wars because, once again, there are characters who train their entire lives to cheat death. Cloning completely undermines those ideas and for that reason i call them terrible ideas and terrible pieces of fiction.
None of this makes any sense. Yes, there are character who train their entire lives to cheat death, and Sheev is one of them and he attempted to cheat death not through simply maintaining consciousness after mortal death but trying to achieve immortality through a mastery of the dark side, the assistance of other dark side spirits and the use of clone technology. I don't see how you can say none of this works in the realm of Star Wars because you have all the typical elements of Star Wars in Dark Empire. If anything, what we normally call Star Wars owes a great deal to Dark Empire's influence.
Why does it matter? It's not like these stories suddenly don't exist. You can still read and enjoy them.
Just because they're not "canon" doesn't mean the stories are not still interesting. Who cares if it "never happened"? They're fucking stories none of it actually happened.
Why not just think of it as an alternate universe? Like the Pre-Force Awakens universe where everything is canon and Post-Force Awakens where nothing, but Rebels, Clone Wars and some of the comics are canon?
>Becoming a force ghost is a power provided by those in tune with the light side of the force.
Sith have done the same.
>Only few jedi have cheated death.
Becoming a force ghost isn't cheating death, it's simply maintaining consciousness by achieving a certain degree of union with the cosmic force.
For me everything is still canon until new-official stuff says otherwise. Sure, most of post RotJ stuff doesn't work with TFA but Old Republic stuff does, with old Sith like Marka Ragnos or Naga Sadow, with Revan, with Zayne, with the MMO....
Still missing Thrawne, Katarn and Darth Kryath
>Why not just think of it as an alternate universe?
That would be fine if it didn't feel like Disney was trying so hard to bury it.
Would it have really made a difference to just make an Episode VII with an alternate version of Jacen and Jaina Solo with enough of their characters intact, including their names, but set in an alternate universe? I don't really understand what the point is in creating a new character who is just a watered down version of Darth Caedus who is presented as "Original Character: Do Nut Steel". It's not like most people would care. If anything, you could move a whole lot more Legends licensed material that way.
I've met people who are totally new to the Old EU after watching Force Awakens who didn't understand why Disney didn't at least just keep Kylo Ren/Ben's name as Jacen.
>Pulled out of my ass
You're on a comic board. I'd expect you to know at least one or two things about comics. Death of Superman and Spiderman's Clones were respectively considered blunders by a large majority of comic readers and it nearly crashed the comic industry. Pull your head out of your own ass.
>Star Wars owes a great deal to Dark Empire's influence
>Becoming a force ghost isn't cheating death.
No. Get out of here with your semantics. It is very literally cheating death. You can communicate with the living and your spirit can spread across the Galaxy as if you were a real person, without the need of food and other things to nourish a living body.
It is literally cheating death.
>Sith have done the same
Maybe in more of the same shitty EU stories we are talking about. Show me that in the movies? Anywhere?
>Yeah, a "huge critical and commercial success". Just like TFA.
Once again, while TPM initially received praise from diehard fans, that opinion quickly turned sour. Neither AotC nor RotS were treated with such blind allegiance, and were reviewed poorly in their debut.
In 2015, with aggregate sites like rottentomatoes, TFA is far more accurately observed.
You're doubling down on a losing bet.
Lucas has fully admitted that the OT writing was done on committee and he had nothing to do with the best parts of it. The prequels prove he's nothing more than a ideas guy who doesn't know how to implement them.
>Disney is all business and no art.
Disney's business is art.
>That would be fine if it didn't feel like Disney was trying so hard to bury it.
Get used to it.
Disney see's the Expanded Universe the same way it sees Marvel comics. Material to mine for cinema.
Creating new characters and ideas is always hit and miss, some fail and some grow on you and no one knows why in advance. By stealing material that was already popular elsewhere they can bypass some of that failure.
Jacen Solo's transformation to Darth Caedus was one of the most popular stories in the EU. So Disney stole it for the new movie.
It's not worse. Cheating death via clones cheapens becoming a force ghost. The movies even put emphasis on how hard it is to achieve. If anyone can just save their own ass by cloning themselves what's the point?
This. Disney knows how to take talented, passionate people, put them in a room together, clear trouble out of the way, and tell them when they are wrong.
That's it. If you don't want that, you shouldn't be watching star wars, you should be watching Avante Garde French Cinema or something.
>People loved Episode 2 because it dropped the child actor and the premise featured an actual war. Episode 3 was praised for being "darker". Are you too young to remember?
Incorrect. "love" is an exaggeration on your part.
AotC and RotS, while praised for being better than their predecessors, were not ultimately given favorable critical appraisal in comparison to other films.
>Disney made a huge investment
>corporations are people
>corporate prerogatives are paramount
>loyalty to and respect for the extant artistic vision is anathema
>capitalism is great
Yea. Huge difference between cloning a person and ending up with multiple personalities and motives in the clones or creating new bodies for "spirit transfers."
Are you that stupid that you need it explained?
>Death of Superman and Spiderman's Clones were respectively considered blunders by a large majority of comic readers and it nearly crashed the comic industry. Pull your head out of your own ass.
None of that has anything to do with the quality or lack thereof of Dark Empire.
It's not delusional. Dark Empire was one of the first products that came out of the old EU and it features a lot of the things that became the staples of much of the following Star Wars materials, especially as far as the whole thing about darksiders seeking immortality, which even became an important part of ROTS itself.
>It is very literally cheating death. You can communicate with the living and your spirit can spread across the Galaxy as if you were a real person, without the need of food and other things to nourish a living body.
There was always a difference between being a fucking ghost and actually being alive. When you're a ghost, all you can do is watch and maybe, if people listen to you, influence, but you don't have real life or real power.
dying and having an afterlife=/=cheating death
>If anyone can just save their own ass by cloning themselves what's the point?
What the fuck are you talking about with this "anyone" shit? First of all, Sheev only was able to learn how to transfer his spirit to blank clones because he was a MASTER of the darkside and because he also had assistance from other dark side spirits. And even then, his clones deteriorated to the point of being weaker with each swap.
Secondly, the difference between Sith and Jedi is that Jedi do not cling to their own lives. They are content to be force ghosts while dark siders crave real physical immortality where they can have what they see as real power, but immortality is next to impossible to achieve. Being a force ghost isn't great if what you desire are the pleasures of the world.
>Huge difference between cloning a person and ending up with multiple personalities and motives in the clones or creating new bodies for "spirit transfers."
By transferring his spirit to normal clones, he destroyed whatever individual personality they may have had. It was magic, not tech that did that.
>Moving goalposts already? This is about how people liked them better than Episode 1.
You're the one who moved the goal post, don't you dare throw that term at me.
This argument started on the premise that TFA would be reevaluated in a few years to be equal or worse in quality to the much maligned prequels.
It is can be proven that while TPM was initially given praise AMONG FANS, it was not rated highly by critics. AotC and RotS liekwise were never blindly given fan appraisal like TPM. And while they were given incrementally better reviews, they were still widely were considered subpar in their debut.
TFA has received near-universal critical praise: the majority of moviegoers like it. There is no 'curtain to be lifted' that will make the the majority of fans suddenly do a heel-turn reversal of their opinion.
he's hardly perfect. he was nearly seduced by the dark side and his former padawan led the imperial remnant to the valley of the jedi.
he's still a great character though -- he uncovered the dark trooper plot, recovered the death star plans, and safeguarded the valley. plus did a bunch of other stuff in the vong war. fucking chill dude.
The problem is that Star Wars was part of popular culture. It wasn't just a movie, it was more like a new folk mythology that everyone shared.
Except it wasn't really, because it is a corporate product owned outright by someone else. It wasn't like the Greek or Arthurian Myths, we have a part of it.
The disconnect between what people felt and what was actually legally true was big enough to leave people feeling bereaved.
The Expanded Universe took off when the Thrawn Trilogy was published, people have been emotionally investing in it for over 20 years.
Ghosts are not allowed to just "take over bodies" of clone of themselves in the movies. Cloning was done as a means for creating an army. They were all their own people. Completely different. It's also been mentioned abut 30 times previously that light side users are the only ones shown with the power to become immortal. Shitty EU writing doesn't change that.
>He destroys individual personality they may have had
Exactly. Terrible writing. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand? The main bad guy is so powerful that he can just keep respawning and I'm the only one that sees a problem with this? Oh well.
Mary Sue can have flaws, but only when those flaws aren't actual flaws in their personalities and are instead tragedies which have happened to make them victims (and therefore deserving of the most sympathy while also being loved by and better than everyone else).
Lucas can't write or direct for shit, why are you defending someone who basically ruined everything people loved about Star Wars and introduced shit no one wanted? Are you actually defending his writing for the Prequels like they're some bastion of hope you need to defend? Cause if so go fuck yourselves and your goddamn shitty taste.
>Ghosts are not allowed to just "take over bodies" of clone of themselves in the movie
Sheev took over bodies with Sith magic. Sith magic only he and a very few people knew the secrets of. You're acting as though Dark Empire said any force ghost can just hijack anybody when the point was that Sheev was a master of the dark side and Sith alchemy and this how he was able to transfer his spirit.
>It's also been mentioned abut 30 times previously that light side users are the only ones shown with the power to become immortal.
They didn't become immortal and nowhere is it stated that only light siders can become Force ghosts. Shit, Lucas himself approved the decision that Darksiders can become force ghosts.
>Exactly. Terrible writing. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand? The main bad guy is so powerful that he can just keep respawning and I'm the only one that sees a problem with this?
You're the only who sees a problem with it because you're completely ignoring plot points.
Sheev couldn't just keep respawning without effort, it was something he trained himself for years to learn how to do and was something very few, if anyone else, had learned how to do. Not only that, but even then the process was imperfect. The clones became more frail and weak with every transference because the power of the Dark Side caused them to deteriorate much faster than a normal body. Sheev kept respawning because he would keep dying naturally faster and faster each time. He wasn't just snapping his fingers and going "nope, not dead." The dude had failed to achieve immortality, his method was flawed and unsustainable if he planned to rule the galaxy forever as the most powerful and uncontested lord of the Sith.
Ghosts are not allowed to just "take over bodies" of clone of themselves in the movies.
Where did themovies say that? And why would the movies tackle a concept that has no bearing to the immediate plot?
>It's also been mentioned abut 30 times previously that light side users are the only ones shown with the power to become immortal.
The movies also established that the Sith seek immortality.
What are the "must read" Star Wars books? I've heard about the Thrawn trilogy, but I also see on wikipedia a pair of books called Hand of Thrawn. Are those like, part of the same series, and do they have closure?
Also I want to read Shadows of the Empire since it was like a big thing at the time.
I liked some of them Jedi Prince books when I was little, are those good or was I just too young to know better? Also, do they have closure?
Also I see there are some books about specific characters. Tarkin and Lando are probably cool, who cares about C-3PO. These any good?
Also I've heard of a book about Han and Leia's wedding, and about Sheev cloning himself. Are these any good, and what are the titles?
So, seeing the future makes perfect sense but seeing the past is too much for the force?
Also, how about when Luke was training and had to face his inner demons? Visions are a thing on the force.
the Thrawn Trilogy is Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command. the Hand of Thrawn Duology is something that comes after, and wraps up all the plot points in order to get the series ready for the next major books, the New Jedi Order.
>Jacen Solo's transformation to Darth Caedus was one of the most popular stories in the EU.
Was it? I stopped following the EU after the Vong War and afterwards all I heard about Eu was how the potential groundwork setup with Vergere teaching Jacen was completely squandered, mishandled and just replaced with a stupid, contrived melodrama.
Technically, since Han Solo asked for it, it wasn't just a coincidence, or a subtle call back, he just wanted her to taste that shit too, as the bitter ashole he is.
I didn't think much of it, to be honest, it wasn't an important detail at all.
Jacen turning evil was one of the more controversial and divisive parts of the post-ROTJ EU. Some people liked it. Some people really hated it. I think it had a lot to do with some of the books written by Traviss than anything. It's one of the problems with having a series written by more than one author.
It's strange to me that Disney would have more or less tried to copy that part of the EU, all things considered.
>And the prequels aren't even that bad.
No, they're pretty poor. as science fiction and as films.
My only gripes with the movie is that the first hour is filled with sudden hard cuts and close up centered shots, and as a result the pacing wasn't great at first.
Having no setup for the falcon was a bit shit too, but still. I also don't see how Rey was a huge Mary sue. The force stuff was a bit weird with no set-up, but all the mechanical stuff was completely fine.
Mara Jade could still be canon, but probably already dead.
The Thrawn trilogy starts the EU - not chronologically but as a good entry point. It established the "New Republic vs imperial Remnant" setting.
Hand of Thrawn is the story where the war ends. Basically they wanted the EU to move towards newer, more retarded places (Yuuhtzan Vong) and needed closure for the previous war. It also wraps up some lose ties from previous novels.
A good reading order would be:
>First four X wing novels (bridge RotJ and Thrawn)
>Dark Empire (if you can stomach batshit insane pulp. Also, skip Dark Empire 2 and Empire's End)
>I, Jedi (a substitute for the awful Jedi Academy trilogy, protag is from X wing)
>Hand of Thrawn
Essential prequel shit:
>Darth Plagueis (shows the Sith conspiracy behind the prequels)
>Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader (extend Anakins story in Episode 3)
>X Wing novels and comics
>Most comics set several 1000 years before the movies (Tales of the Jedi, Knights of the Old Republic, Knight Errant) Tales of the Jedi: Redemption is the best of the bunch.
>Bane Trilogy books (the Sith who started the rule of 2)
>Crimson Empire (a good Dark Empire spin off)
>Jedi Apprentice books (young Obi Wan and Qui Gon)
>Legacy comcis (Legacy Volume 2 is the last story in the EU timeline and pretty great)
>Also I see there are some books about specific characters.
Tarkin is good. Most stuff by Luceno is.
>I liked some of them Jedi Prince books when I was little
You didn't know better.
>Also I've heard of a book about Han and Leia's wedding
Courtship of Princess Leia. It's ok for what it is. It introduces the witches of Dathomir and the Hapan people which pop up in other stories.
>and about Sheev cloning himself.
Dark Empire. People love it or hate it.
>Except you're forgetting the fact that they aren't.
Except go fuck yourself.
The 'Shadows of the Empire' novel by Steve Perry is good, but Steve Perry is a good sci-fi writer outside of Star Wars as well. The rule of thumb with the Expanded Universe is follow the creators not the characters.
I suggest looking into;
'The Thrawn trilogy' by Timothy Zahn. (this includes all the main cast and also introduces Mara Jade and Jacen and Jaina Solo)
'I, Jedi ' by Michael Stackpole
'The Callista Trilogy' by Barbara Hambly and Kevin J. Anderson
'The Hand of Thrawn' also by Timothy Zahn
After this point the Starwars universe starts doing 'events'. These are massive intertwined plots which you need to read multiple books to follow. I liked them but you should start with the ones I've already recommended before deciding if you want to read through them.
The arcs are;
Young Jedi Knights (this is the story of the next generation of Jedi Knights)
The New Jedi Order (this is the story of a Galaxy wide invasion which is fought by the new Jedi Knights and all the original cast)
Legacy of the Force (this is the story of how Jacen Solo falls to the Dark Side).
Comics worth reading are;
'Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand' (Mara Jade's origin story)
'Star Wars Legacy' series by Dark Horse (this is the one which features Cade Skywalker).
Darth Vader series by Marvel comics (only one currently being published.)
Comic fans are probably the only people who can get into the Expanded Universe as the multiple character arcs and interlacing stories are very similar to the way a comic book universe works.
>muh big titty ex-imperial luke waifu stronk badass
Why didn't they sell the franchise to WB? They have good comic and movie writers there.
Jacen Solo falling to the darkside was brilliantly done.
The best part was that he was doing the right thing every step of the way. He didn't want power or glory or wealth, he genuinely wanted to help people and make the universe a better place.
He had all the right intentions and by the end he was torturing people and burning entire planets for 'the greater good'.
Oof, thank you so much, I've been hoping to find a comprehensive explanation like these.
How about video games, are there any that are important to the EU? Like I played Dark Forces and it's about trying to shut down the Empire's "dark trooper" facilities, which is kind of just a monster-of-the-week plot, but I've seen the dark troopers show up in other games. Any other games like this?
I was actually okay with that, it was executed poorly, but it was a fine idea.
I felt jakku's pacing was awful but got better after leaving, new death lazer was a bit contrived, but i didn't get that with the trench or any throwback but "I have a bad feeling about this" Also the falcon not being setup or whatsherface's jedi mastery.
The vong were shit. A really interesting idea done in the bland and shittiest way possible. Like cool a villain who isn't the sith or the empire. And they resist the force But then they are just worse klingons.
>How about video games, are there any that are important to the EU?
'Knights of the Old Republic' (by Bioware) and its sequel 'The Sith Lords' (by Obsidian) are both important to the EU. They are both rpg's and available on Steam dirt cheap. They introduce Revan most of the 'old' Jedi and Sith lore.
They are good but old school, watch a youtube vid before buying them to decide if you will enjoy.
The others are not story relevant.
The whole X wing game series is pretty great, though naturally, the older games a bit dated. Tie-Fighter is a sequel/spin of that features Thrawn. It's not just a random cameo, you get to see him move up the ranks.
Dark Forces turns into the Jedi Knight series (same protag). In the add-on "Mysteries of the Sith" you get to play as Mara Jade and the last instalment "Jedi Academy" takes you to a shitload of locations from the movies ad the EU, such as Vader's personal castle from Dark Empire (look out for the statue in pic related).
KotoR takes places after the Tales of the Jedi comics but makes few references to it. It spawned a lot of lore itself though.
Battlefront 2 features the Vader's 501st Legion, which survive all the way up to the Legacy era.
All good games.
>Actor charisma goes a long way
>And Daisy Ridley had zero.
I'm not even mad.
What the fuck was Lucas thinking. It sounds like a surfer from the 80s
Wait is is the Emporia or he who shall not be named that's called sheev. Because sheev is at least better than snoke
Why do you guys have such a single minded hatred of the old EU? No really, I don't get it. There's a lot of top tier stories and concepts in the EU. Does the fact that shit comics and games exist just spoil the whole thing somehow?
>I didn't think you could prove me wrong.
Well I'm glad I did.
>Most of it is fanfiction garbage
>I know because I read it all
how many other major roles were there in the prequels?
Alec Guiness and Cushing both died not long after their roles, the suit actors don't really count...
So really it's just Carrie Fisher and Billy Dee Williams who went into obscurity
You say that, and I'll ask you to prove it and you'll point to some easy target like Lord Nyaxx or the Vong or someshit. But regular /co/ like DC and Marvel have always had dumb shit, and it's never been labeled fanfiction garbage. What the hell makes Star Wars so special that anything not in the movies is fanfiction?
Guiness and Cushing already had a long fruitful career. Same as Lee or Neeson.
>it's just Carrie Fisher and Billy Dee Williams who went into obscurity
The actors who played the droids, too. And the one who played Chewbacca. Face it, SW is a career killer.
>And the one who played Chewbacca
To be fair, he wasn't really heavily into acting anyway, the only reason he got the part was because he was tall.
It's definitely the case for David Prowse though.
Yes, EU ruined that possibility. I can count with one hand the amount of actually important characters in the original trilogy. With the EU there's one 'major' character for every day in a year. Luckily Force Awakens is fixing this.
>There are people who think this is okay
With no X-Wings in this picture, nobody would think this shit is Star Wars. Imagine if there were no Vong books and Disney decided to make this movie on its own. It would be considered retarded and not Star Wars like at all. Hell it barely feels like it already
Are you seriously doing this? Do you really think anybody, even Lucas, cared about the books and the rest of the EU? The EU itself changed depending on the movie. The movies are the only thing that matter in the general eye of the public in Star Wars. That and the merchandise.
Because Star Wars and Darth Vader are neckbeard shit. The biggest movies of all time.
Fuck off, retard.
Explain to me how anything about the fucking Vong is in line with Star Wars both OT and PT
"Oh the Emperor was just building the Empire the whole time just to combat them", give me a fucking break
She's a 6'3'' angel who fell from heaven.
Never said that, original trilogy characters had CHARACTER. They actually felt human. You can't achieve this when you're going for a plethora of husks. Humans are so simple that when you actually try giving each person a humanity in a series with a huge cast you end up with very similar characters, some times even identical, so writers usually end up dumping each of them into their own little archetype.
>TFA is a generic Sci Fi film wearing the skin of Star Wars, at best.
It's a star war.
You mean a fucking regular movie sequel?
So Ben Skywalker was Luke's kid named after Ben Kenobi who was really Obi Wan Kenobi until eu died and Kylo Ren was really Ben Solo was Luke's sister's kid.
This is going to be hard to explain in the future.
>I thought this thread contained civil and enjoyable discussions about things enjoyed then and now.
You see this OP right?
It's litterally "Muh EU" complete with fucking T___T like it's Reddit or something?