Can we play a game of "Let's Google Image Search for the pictures that Greg Land obviously traced from"? There's plenty of documentation of the obvious, confirmed examples but it's so fucking easy to find more.
Example: Saw this in Spider-Woman #2. I GIS'd "sad kid", it's the fifth result.
His Venom in Spider-Woman #3 is just the kotobukiya Venom statue.
So it is!
I wouldn't even mind this lazy shit if the art didn't look awful as a result. But it's just terrible, everything looks slightly wrong and it's uncanny.
>drawing from reference: just a generally good idea
>drawing from reference too well: crime of the century
I wrote "Butler stock" in Google and found the picture he used for this Butler drawing.
There is a difference between drawing well and Greg Land. One gives great art, the other gives out of context porn faces and uncanny smiles that don't match what the characters are saying.
The most insulting part is he doesn't even search that deep. He always takes the first image almost every time.
It was the first result when I looked it up the first time.
Mighty Avenger's climax with the old lady?
Search Grumpy old lady
Surprise surprise result 1.
Being lazy is bad but at least he could put some work into his laziness.
Can anyone find the picture he traced for this?
I went from Throne -> Riddick Throne -> Loki Throne -> Iron Man 3 Mandarin
How do you swipes like this?
Just have a photo reference ? Or somehow put the photo under the paper you're drawing on and have a light project from the underneath?
Or project the photo onto a paper and trace it that way?
Comic book paper is pretty thick. Would be hard to trace through it.
Or is it all computers with no pencil and ink on real paper ?
Razorfist is a contrarian with a superiority complex.
>you like this thing? You're just a dumb, fanboy nerd! *image of a fat nerd on screen*
So who uses google images more: him or Land?
Landscape artists don't "trace". They can't. Or, well, couldn't before the age of cameras. They used their own sketches, imagination, and knowledge because Earth doesn't like artists enough to stop moving for a few hours for them.
But many landscape artists absolutely do trace nowadays.
In this thread non artists confused about how artists draw and their ignorance leads to false arrogance.
But it isn't, you fucking idiot. A landscape artist doesn't just draws what he sees, he adds to it and removes, plays with color balance and so on. A landscape painting is not just a substitute for a photograph.
Even Michelangelo used models for all of his art you stupid, stupid fucks.
There's a pretty big difference between modelling and tracing, just sayin'.
It's not about using models you stupid, stupid fuck. And I don't know why you insist on equating commercial comic art to life-model art and landscape paintings.
But I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point so whatever.
>He always takes the first image almost every time.
This is probably what I hate the most too.
Anyone got that evidence for the "punk girl" that Bum Tickley drew in CAD a few years ago?
You're pretty fucking stupid if you think it's the same thing. Land doesn't just trace like a few artists have done. He somehow manages to trace BADLY. Character faces don't match up with dialogue, he recycles the same shit to meet deadlines, he pulls images off of the easiest results on google.
It barely qualifies as work.
>pay Greg money to make covers
>get these in return
>Take art class
>Draw what you see
>Draw what you see
>DRAW WHAT YOU SEE
Being an artist is in no way special, the difference is that an experienced artist combines shit they've seen and knowledge of how shit works to make new works.
I would get it if people were just complaining that this asshole's art is shit, uninspired, non-creative or anything. But calling it a "trace" is just stupid. Any artist who spent any amount of time drawing doesn't need to trace, they can just copy it by eye (Much faster than it would take to trace over the lines with thin paper or on a program). Which is not the same as tracing, despite similar results.
The thing about Greg Land is that you can put his drawing and the picture he traced over each other on Photoshop and see that the lines match. It's different to look at a photo and take a pose from it and copying it line to line.
My little anon can't be this retarded. When you draw from life, you pick the right pose, angle, lighting, composition. Being able to draw well will not make you a good artist without the skills to combine these into something coherent. If you google a photo, or stop a movie, it doesn't matter whether you actually trace or not, other's have already done the hard part of the work for you. You are stealing their art.
>Retards who aren't artists try to tell people that Land's tracing is just "using references"
No. Observational drawing is fine and working from a model is fine for professional work--and hell, yes, even tracing can be fine IF IT'S FOR PRACTICE AND STUDIES. It is not okay for work you intend to sell, or professional work. There is a huge difference between copy+pasting an image and drawing over it and using a photo to reference from; just as an example, you usually want more than one reference to work with, not just one.
You stupid motherfucker.
You click this link, you click it right now. In fact, everyone in this thread should.
>Being able to draw well will not make you a good artist without the skills to combine these into something coherent.
>Agreeing with the post while acting like you don't.
Truly, the best of bait.
This is pretty close, though not the same/
>has all her teeth
Yeah, that's the worst thing, it's not like Leifeld who somehow manages to trace images in a way that's even worse than his free hand stuff, Land CAN draw, he just chooses not to.
And STILL everything takes longer for him to finish than would be really professionally acceptable in any industry other than comic books.
not even close. A sculpture again, in this case. But I still think mixed with something else. Either Arthas or a Frazetta piece.
I really don't know what to say.
Now that I'm back in the thread and found the original again, I'm even more sure I'm right. He got rid of the staff, added more skulls/helmets, changed the degree of slouch slightly, but the overall distance between the characters head and the skull/helmet at the top of the throne remains about the same. About 70% sure the helmets/skulls surrounding the skull throne are borrowed from somewhere at least in terms of position and size, though.
Actually, it's not even that impressive, it's just sad
>Come into thread thinking someone is bitching about someone using a model
>Nope, legit tracing
I'm trying to learn to draw, and I think I'm going to avoid tracing completely if possible. I'll look at a photo to get an idea of how to pose, but I will attempt to put it together myself. Land's route is cheating, in my opinion, and wouldn't truly teach me anything.
Why is nobody sued Marvel yet for Land's trace work?
You'd think at some point, somebody would start making waves and Marvel would reconsider giving Land so much work based solely on him meeting deadlines.
The biggest problem for me with Land isn't that he traces. I mean, it's lazy and morally questionable, but at least he's pretty good at it.
The problem is that what he traces almost NEVER fits what the script needs. It's just random poses that he found on Google images or in porn or wherever else.
Also, he reuses the same ones over and over, which is pretty annoying once youve seen enough of his art.
>be an "artist"
>basically trace everything from in-game screenshots/porn pictures/other peoples work
>change few things like narrowing shoulders/make hips wider/legs shorter/etc.
>no one notices a thing and tells me I am a great artist
Well, that's nice, but don't be that worried about "cheating". You know, there are many things that some might consider cheating. Some like to montage in photos to help with texture, maybe they paint over it. Some use special brushes for the same thing. And others do it all with a basic brush by hand and a lot of work. Is the first two sort of cheating? Yeah. But it's also perfectly reasonable to do it, because at the end of the day, especially for hobby artists, results are the most important. As long as you are satisfied with the end result, it's okay. Same thing goes for reference photos. If you absolutely can't figure something out on your own, use them. You will improve from the other practice stuff you. But when you are doing a picture, use whatever you have to to get the results you want.
I thought this thread would consist of porn stills.
Now, the question is - can we find the hands and jaw from the 'Avengers Assemble' pic, because that's traced too.
It might be from porn, because I can't find shit. Or it might be easy and I'm shit.
He actually used this lady's left hand for both of the hands, just mirrored it. And drew like one finger by himself.
it could very well be a combination of the ones we've had here. i mean, he does the head point thing that the mtg card does, but the lack of a lowerbody in the mtg reference would mean land has to trace from somewhere else to complete the image.
What's next? did he even trace the speachbubbles?
kind of like it. Maybe in one of the earlier games?
God damn. The way he Frankensteined a single character out of several different pictures creates such an enormous dissonance of body language that everything looks so fucking unreal. If it had been done intentionally, you could argue that it was some sort of pretentious avant-garde piece.
>ITT: artists bitch they don't draw on easy mode
haha you can't even make mad dosh
Thanks for the opportunity to post this again, /co/
It's really fucked up how artists in Japan have had their entire careers completely RUINED just because they dared to copy a simple pose from a photo in a magazine, while Land fills entire comicbooks with the most blatant tracing ever and nobody in the industry gives a single shit.
I like to think it's because they feel bad for him since he has no marketable skills so they just keep putting him on backwater books and pay him a salary so he doesn't end up on the street
It really isn't.
It's bigger than the American one, but when you say "western comic book industry" you're talking about all of it. And that's a lot of shit.
Remember to always use precise language in conversation, because you might rustle autists like myself.
Yeah, I use a 3D model program to help me out, mostly with proportions/scale/perspective. It's not a substitute for drawing from life and whatnot (and I'd like to get to some non-college life drawing sessions eventually), but it helps. If nothing else, it's a good way to lay groundwork for a picture, and then build off/on top of that with my own style and stuff. Especially since I draw aliens and shit like that, instead of humans. I still have to figure out proportions for things like inhuman arms/legs/etc..
Even then, using 3D models for references (in the proportions/perspective sense) isn't perfect and doesn't replicate life exactly, but since I consider myself a hobby artist, it works for me. (I still always aim to git gud, though)
People like Greg Land make me ashamed to admit this openly, though.
Considering the fact that the people in the picture don't look remotely like each other, I'm pretty sure it's just taking the piss out of Land by taking his habit to its logical extreme.
>otherwise seems to have really good art
No, the art is bad as well as being unoriginal.
>Don't you think that's a tad extreme?
If he wants to be respected as an artist he should learn how to draw.
Well Japan has higher standards except for maybe their leniency with people using a lot of assistants so it makes sense. In America comics are unfortunately seen as bottom of the barrel entertainment and no one gives a fuck if someone as shitty as Land is getting work
>meaningless background events
Did you miss every post in this thread? He traces main characters all the time.
I'm not saying he's talentless; he's good at tracing. But it's still a shitty thing to do.
Hell I think some of this is illegal, the pictures he uses seem to be professionally shot pictures, I'm pretty sure some of them are protected as intellectual property, not that it really matters.
To all you anons that read comics is this the standards you guys have for comics? You should boycott anything with this kind of shit, just as a matter of principle it's embarrassing, it tends to have an uncanny valley feel to it and it makes comics look like a joke.
Oh WOW, you would've thought he'd at least get rid of the top bumps instead of making them blazing orange.
I digress though, if he had actually built a unique model from legos and just used it as a reference, that would at least be pretty novel.
I don't really think it's because they have higher standards. But any scandal brings shame to the company, and that's a big no-no. So it's better to force the artist to admit to this shamefur disprey and commit professional sudoku than pretend it's not a big deal. Even if it really isn't.
I've been visiting 4chan on a regular basis since 2004 and I still don't get it...
I don't have any larocca stuff.
So has anyone checked whether any of the images he's traced are at all copyrighted? Like, for some of these it's well past anything that could be weaseled away as 'parody' or just inspiration or some shit. If you could find and notify a large enough group of photographers or other copyright holders to create a legal shitstorm you might actually be able to do something about Land.
This is the type of stuff you just won't accept being actually real, it's so strange
It's on par with a guy i knew that licked peanutbutter straight out of the tin can and cut his tongue
First off, all pictures - by the very definition of the concept - are copyrighted.
Now, whether or not anyone who owns said copyright has cared enough to pursue it (or has even noticed it) is a different story entirely.
>all that blatant clipping between the traced model and the added bits
dude's got balls, you gotta give him that
It could be argued that it's just part of the design. I'm not defending it or anything, but the cannons are blatantly clipping through the rest of the ship. It looks like the guy just mashed a couple of 3D models together with no regard for visual consistency, which, all things considered, is probably exactly what he did.
Land i swear to god i know its you dude
or did you forget when you slipped up in this very same kinda thread like two years ago
its ok you're a hack
its just 4chan what the fuck do we matter
go buy an eisner
Yeah, he's a fantastic artist, isn't he? Look at that anatomy. So good.
And a good person, too. Look at this touching tribute to a breast cancer survivor. Beautiful, in every way.
yeah. Comparing Land to Hughes, or lets say someone like Rockwell is a joke.
Lightboxing IS centuries old.
Hell, watch Tim's Vermeer to get a hint of just how much the "masters" of old might have actually used camera obscura and lightboxing.
But land's work is beyond lazy.
It's killing me too.
I googled the cover and found Guru posted it on his DeviantArt. He was replying to every single comment, except for a very specific one...
Hey, kids! Check out the new Super Hero Popsicles, designed by Greg Land! Now you can suck on Felicia Hardy's boobs! And...her head too, I guess. Also available: Ben Grimm's gaping jaw, Generic Porn Face and Grumpy Grandma.
A minute ago I was thinking "how lazy to trace the middle panel like that, but at least the top panel shows he can still draw if he tries"
I love how the narrative is completely warped around the need to trace these stock images. The middle panel makes no sense.
>And...her head too, I guess.
I know a few superheroes whose heads I'd suck!
This is the closest I have found.
Using models is not tracing, you Nimrod. Tracing is literally TRACING the lines of a photo or drawing, copying without making any substantial changes. You can't trace live models, you can't put your paper over them and trace their lines, and even more so if they're living beings, they fucking move!
Punisher ongoing. Frank moprhed into Parlov punisher all of a suuden.
The art sort of dropped since we found out it was ending.
this is the only thing I could find
im not sure if theyre the same, though
>that mouth open
>only one eye
I love it
I love threads like this, these comic book artists are hacks.
They can't really answer that question because:
1) They probably don't know the answer
2) Acknowledging that Land traces could be career suicide as it would make a huge controversy.
The majority of Broo in Wolverine & The X-Men were just traces of the Glasses Gremlin from Gremlins 2.
Referencing is to tracing what a cover-song is to lip-syncing.
Holy shit that beats everyone out of the water. I prefer to think that was a sly homage to lego just to keep my faith in the art industry
>so they just keep putting him on backwater books and pay him a salary so he doesn't end up on the street
Meanwhile, Howard Porter injures his hand, and still manages to re-learn how to draw. And he was driving a fucking bus during that period.
looks like a cross between this: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111128815/3557812-black+adam+.jpg and this: https://jeffreyklyles.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/iron-man-3-the-mandarin-poster.jpg
Not a fair comparison since Ross is more of an illustrator. But! you do have a bit of a point.
These trace guys back themselves into a corner because theyre expected to reach this level of quality all the time. It's like, no dude, simplify your shit, and you don't have to draw every strand of fucking hair.
Reference is when you look up photos of bodybuilders to get some idea of how Superman's muscles should look. Tracing is when you take a picture of a bodybuilder, lightbox it, and put him in a cape.
holy shit lmao, no wonder he traces he seems to only have a vague grasp of anatomy
then how about this, laymen do not think hey i can just reference a pose and change EVERYTHING and have a completely new and ORIGINAL picture.
It's bad to sell tracings as your own original works. It can be good for novice artists to help them get proportions of things down and learn how things work but passing it off as your own work and making money off it is pretty bad. It's not like we live in the age before photography, were that kind of stuff was actually necessary.
Yes, but Michelangelo didn't take pictures of his models and trace them in Photoshop.
Fuck, even that'd be more work than Land ever does.
Tracing isn't as new as you think.
They had to get pretty creative with it though.
But yeah Tracing and using Models aren't the same thing.
I'm not sure if it's bait or if they genuinely think people are referring to people who use reference when they say tracing.
Pupils of the renaissance most likely traced their master's sketches which is fine. That helps you learn proportion, but after a while you need to learn to transition to actual life drawing.
there is literally nothing wrong with tracing from real life, just don't be a shitty artist in the first place. would be even more ideal to get your own models, be it yourself even
One I made for Land way back as the previews for Iron Man #1 came out.
Anyone have the one where Iron Man is having a heart attack? I don't know if it's the same artist, but it's still hilarious, especially since it makes his suit look like skin.
I sort of thought this was the worst one I'd see, if only because it's not only a stock image, but a fairly memetic one.
Some the things in this thread really give it a run for its money.
>tfw practice for years, trying to git gud
>this faggot spits in the face of the profession and calls himself an artist
>actual GOOD artists get paid shit compared to him
How the fuck does he still have a job? Like somebody there at Marvel MUST'VE noticed or something, right? And they didn't do anything?
Is he good on deadlines or something?
Do they even give a shit about tracing or any form of copyright?
yes i mad.
Fucking hell. When they're side by side, it sort of looks like he didn't entirely trace it, because things like the position of the hand and the head seem different.
But if you open an image editor and rotate it just so...
The thing about Land, mind, is that Land's artwork has two characteristics: it looks pretty cool at a glance, and it's mostly on time. In the comics industry, you can pretty much draw with a pencil made of dried cat shit and you'll still get steady work if you can get it in on time.
>Is he good on deadlines or something?
Good art takes time.
Same with writing.
Only a few stories are planned ahead of time especially weekly or bi-weekly series.
Also since when do comic book artists get paid a lot? I am stuck with the impression ever since reading how it was drawing in the old days.
>Is he good on deadlines or something?
This is all you need, unfortunately. Poor quality work that won't really be noticed by most of the audience makes no difference. Consistency and reliability is why Questionable Content makes so much money, regardless of its laziness and general hackiness.
>it looks pretty cool at a glance,
THIS. I remember just getting into comics, and reading Ultimate FF, thinking "damn this art looks slick. and the chicks are hot". Then as time went on, I noticed characters had an uncanny valley tinge to them, a lot of stiff composition, and overall just a very rushed look glossed over with come colors.