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What's /co/'s stance on tracing?...
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What's /co/'s stance on tracing? Any tracing; cover, interior, staged, "borrowed", art-wise, storytelling-wise....
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Utterly disgraceful.
unless you get away with it.
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If it is tracing from real life I generally don't give a shit. If it is tracing another artist's drawing without reference to the original artist then that is theft.

The real crime here is that the traced little girl, despite being traced, looks like shit.
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>>63759128
Hate it.
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It's a great way to learn to draw, but for fuck's sake don't keep doing it when you're a professional.
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>>63759128
its ok if your staging the people yourself like in "romantically apocalyptic" because thats actually good artwork YOU made.

aside from that...bullshit
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no sir, I don't like it
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>>63759128
Tracing photos you took yourself, has the right to use or simply bought is fine

Tracing images from Google sucks.

Tracing someone else's art is unnaceptable.
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Unacceptable. I find it disgusting, I have no respect for people who trace.
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>>63759128

All the tracers are Marvel artists, aren't they?
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>>63759128
I really I really dislike it. I can't find no reason for using it when it looks so bad.
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>>63759266
It's a horrible way to learn how to draw. You don't learn anything at all. Drawing from life is the best way to draw, actually looking at something and then drawing what you see, because them you actually have to understand what you're drawing, instead of just going over the contours like a fucking monkey.
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Shit like this is why I barely read any of the Big Two stuff anymore.

Look at how bland that shit is.
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>>63759227

This.

The color also looks like you gave Ralphie the retard the (digital) crayon box. Jesus man you cant even stay in the lines! I know they were probably done by different people, but still.
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Referencing photos or models is fine but outright tracing isn't.
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>>63759128
It's lazy and unworthy of the job of a professional. People like to say that it's "normal" because of deadlines and shit, but sorry, no, it's not, especially when you reference stuff like a pin up or a random crying kid like in OP. As an artist you should be able to do that basic shit with your eyes closed. everybody else in the other countrie's industry can. I dont see why people should give maerican artist an immunity to bad practice.
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>>63759128
i'm more confused than angry
because it's not like these people trace every.single.image, in other words they DO know anatomy, perspective and all that crap, so why the hell would anyone bother to find a picture on the internet to trace over? As an artist myself i think not only would it take longer, but also would look worse than what you would have done on your own, due to limitations being made by the photo. Also it limits the fun of drawing, tracing a picture is like doing factory work, a machine can do that, but creating a picture from the beginning? Now that's creativity.
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Plagiarism, no matter the form, is morally repugnant.

Tracing from photos you've taken yourself, while morally fine, generally gives you a poor drawing and I do not like it.
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>>63759516
>tracing a picture is like doing factory work
I imagine working on Big Event #2344345 shares a lot of similarities with factory work.
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>>63759128
As long as it's not swiping from another artist I generally don't care.
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>>63759466
I was once told (by a art teacher no less) using a reference is just as bad as just tracing.

That if you can't draw/paint completely from your mind then you are a terrible artist.
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>>63759507
>Salvador Lorroca
>American

Is dis nigga serious?

Capcha:engaged factingM
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>>63759634
Then your art teacher was a terrible teacher and a terrible artist. Cause that's bullshit. If that were true then every renaissance era artist is a terrible artist.
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>>63759634
And it's true
Well while learning you obviously need reference but an actual artist should be able to draw from imagination
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It fucking disgusts me. I go out of my way to name and shame any tracers in the industry, and yet people will still defend them simply because it looks good anyway. Deodato, Larocca, Land, Sorrentino, Janin, Worley, fuck em all.
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>>63759677
>>63759691
I should have specified these where art CLASSES, as in trying to learn how to actually do art.

Its sad because the fucker didn't teach anything like color theory, or mediums, or even how to do different techniques.

Hell part of the grade of the class was forcing everyone to go see their dyke girlfriends art exibit, a bunch of crappy nude paintings.
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>>63759634
>>63759634
>That if you can't draw/paint completely from your mind then you are a terrible artist.
then they were a horrid teacher.

yes you should practice form your head, but references can help get proportions right.
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Tim Bradstreet traces from photos he takes himself to make his Punisher MAX covers. They look brutal.
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>>63759914
>be in 5th grade
>"art" class
>fat housewife soccer mom 'art teacher' tells us that if you have to use an eraser, you're not doing art right

l
m
a
o
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>>63759945
i dont think anyone has issues with that.
thats perfectly fine.
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Does anyone have that comic by Nick Simmons that was just a page for page knock off of bleach?
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How long before that guy who traces those comics of himself raping superheroines comes back and continues to insist that it's 'reference'? You guys know the one.
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>>63759374
Its good for when you're literally just starting out, and wanna work on flexibility/muscle reflex to get into the groove. But beyond that, there's no reason to keep tracing after like, the first week.
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I don't care so long as it looks good, but it usually doesn't.
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>>63760070
You're a fucking monster, I hope you get raped by a pencil.
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>>63759266
>It's a great way to learn to draw
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>>63759945
I wanna see the original photo. Because that's an awesome shot.
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>>63759128

Only autistic people care.
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>>63759691
>an actual artist should be able to draw from imagination
To a certain degree, that's true, but nobody knows how to draw everything.
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>>63759128
IT FUCKING SUCK BALL AND MAKE ANY ICONIC CHARACTER UNRECOGNISABLE

That being said, I love Ex Machina.
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>>63760109
It is. So long as you think while you do it
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>>63760137
No. Its fucking not Dobson.
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>>63760119
This post made me realize that a good portion of /co/ thinks it isn't autistic just because they don't care about something.
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>>63759914
That teacher is correct in not teaching you that stuff until you are ready.

You have to appreciate art before you can learn to do it.
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>>63760109
but it is anon.
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If it's accompanied by a cheesy 80's one-hit wonder, I'm okay with it.
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>>63759691
Sure, you can draw a ship from what you picture in your mind, but more than likely that mental image is gonna be wholly inaccurate and incomplete. You'd have to look at an actual ship to get all the details.
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Rotoscoping's pretty cool
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If it looks good then there's nothing wrong with whatever method you used.
That being said, tracing is not the easy out that it seems. To make a tracing look good you actually have to work at it, and that's what so many artists don't do. They just trace because it's quick, but you should be doing just as much work on the tracing as you would on a referenced picture.
So it really comes down to the artist, how much work they put on it, and where they're using it.
A good tracing doesn't look like a tracing at first glance.
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>>63759636
He said American industry

>mfw Americans can't read
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>>63760119
>*artistic
You piece of shit.
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>>63760210
That had style though.
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>>63760158
Trace to learn. Its training wheels anon. Learn why this does that then eventually you can draw it for real. Think.
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>>63760003
you mean bleach itself?
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>>63760374
>I dont see why people should give maerican artist an immunity to bad practice

>>63759507
I dont see why people should give maerican artist an immunity to bad practice

I'll ignore the poor spelling. But he did say American Artist in that sentence. Only in the previous sentence did he mention any kind of industry. The syntax in no way implies that he was continuing to talk about any industry when he mentioned the american artist.

You need to learn some reading comprehension.
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>>63760109
it can be.
as long as you UNDERSTAND why a line is there and how it connects.
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>>63760456
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>>63760210
thats rotoscope.
thats acting transferred over to animation
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>>63760310
man, Bakshi LOTR was brutal
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>>63759196
like Greg Land has?
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>>63760456
Not that anon, but it really isn't.
Referencing works because you're seeing how the proportions work, tracing doesn't because you're not learning proportions. you're just drawing over a picture.
And I know you said before
>if you think about what you're drawing
But it doesn't work that way, you need to see what you're drawing, when you trace you're concentrated on copying the picture directly. When you reference a picture it's not a direct translation, so you're also learning how to draw to scale, use your canvas space, and of course basic proportions. Tracing doesn't let you scale your image, it doesn't teach you about canvas space, and I guarantee you won't be thinking about how proportions work while you're busy with your head down following a line.

That's not to say tracing can't look good, it's just that it's not teaching you anything.
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>>63760572

But isn't it just tracing over individual frames of film in order to construct a cartoon with lifelike movement?
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>>63759128

>looking for quality in capeshit

Ya dun goofed
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>>63760649
yeah, thats what i said.
they trace frames of live action over to paper.
its been around since ever.
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>>63759945
There's a big difference between taking your own pictures for reference and tracing stock photos.

>>63759957
I once read a "How to draw comics" book when I was little that had that. Shit made no sense even then.
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Classic.
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Ignoring everything else shitty about this page, how about the artist just pulling images off of google and putting them through filters to slap on a page as a background, not caring if there are even people in those images?

This scene doesn't take place on Earth.
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>>63762354
It's well known that Ramondelli sucks cocks to keep getting work at IDW
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>>63759128
I typically don't like tracing because often it's obvious it was traced and looks out of place compared to everything else.
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>>63759945
My problem with it, and really my only problem with it, is that it's not even tracing. It's using the "find edges" filter in Photoshop.

I'd rather just have the original photos on the cover.
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>>63760374
So you're American then.
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>>63760550
>>63760636
Confirmed for not knowing much about art
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>>63759945
No problem with that, it's the artist's photo, and makes for an atmospheric and great looking cover. He didn't steal someone else's picture or art, or take a tragic picture and use that for the job.
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>>63763266
>no, you're wrong!
At least try to leave some bait.
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>>63760057
The ONLY fucking thing tracing will help with is line control. But you can literally get the same benefit from drawing lines on a blank piece of paper.
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>>63759128
tracing is fine in moderation, every artist does it. gotta reach those deadlines, but don't trace things you've already traced before and make it super obvious
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>>63759128
Tracing and Andrew Loomis created a generation of spoiled and lazy "artists" who have a very narrow view of what art "is" and how it "should be".
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>>63764263
all rules to art should be taken with a grain of salt. at some point you just gotta do your own thing
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>>63759128 (OP)

Finding an image was traced is like being told how a trick was done. It loses its magic somewhat.

Beyond that, I prefer more cartoon-ish styles for sequential storytelling anyway, because they have more energy and life to them. Those tend to get lost in tracings and heavily referenced, "staged" drawings.
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>>63759128
That's only somethng little kids and deviantart weaboos do. And believe me: TRACING. IS. WHAT. DEVIANTART. IS. FAMOUS. FOR. AS. WELL.
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>>63764263
>who have a very narrow view of what art "is" and how it "should be".

Aren't you doing that?
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neal adams traces
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>>63764518
Yeah and Frazetta swiped a few times. And a lot of other artists do that. I'm pretty sure Steranko brought it up on his twitter. Seriously, most of the people here overlook the fact that the reason Greg Land's stuff is shit is not so much that he traced, it's because he traced and did a poor job making it look good or vaguely natural.
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>>63759339
Mostly tracing mostly drawing on top on Poser models.
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>>63760310
Rotoscoping is perfectly fine if your animating the film you shot. Kinda like Bradstreet copying his own photos.
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Reminder that Bob Kane was a hack.
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>>63760003
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>>63762176
Uhhh, why is Colossus a Raider's fan?
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>>63764608
>Seriously, most of the people here overlook the fact that the reason Greg Land's stuff is shit is not so much that he traced, it's because he traced and did a poor job making it look good or vaguely natural.

He used to make it look good and no one complained. Criticism only started when he stopped caring.
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>>63759315
Every form of tracing unacceptable.
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>>63759315
Tracing in any form is unacceptable.
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>>63765446
Bob Kane couldn't even draw his own clown paintings.
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>>63759128
The 50% opacity version reminds me of Bilal's art.
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>>63766450
What's wrong with the first one? I mean tracing in an of itself does take some skill to make it look natural and not traced. And taking the photo yourself involves having photographic skill, being able to properly set up a shot, put together a set, costuming, etc. I pretty much agree with the guy you disagree with. Not sure why you're so quick to dismiss something that can be useful in some specific cases.
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>>63766960
>I mean tracing in an of itself does take some skill.

Kill yourself.
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>>63766960
I agree with this, if you actually went thought the trouble of taking the picture yourself and in order it use in in your comic, that's quite a bit of work you're doing.
Pic related, Gerhard often used his own pictures to use in Cerebus's backgrounds

What Land does, where he grabs pictures from Google's image search and still has his art come void of life is inexcusable, stealing someone else's art even moreso
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If the artist themselves took the original picture, it's gross but they're totally allowed to do that.

In some instances claims of tracing are made and it could easily be argued it was just used as a reference and the artist is that good. OP is not one of those times, though.
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Moebius who is a revered artists would take reference from Magazine Ads.

Would you guys say this is ok. I think is it. It's just referencing and he didn't trace. He was probably looking for a pose that fit what he wanted and found it.

Back then then people had folders of magazine cut outs. Today they have google
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>>63769171
Of course this image is fine; he's not simply putting the original photo under his Photoshop layer and drawing the lady's outline, he's actually using it to understand how a woman would sit in such position, to get a general idea of how her jacket would fold, etc...

References are not only OK, but are a MUST for every artist because they can't be expected to just know how the human body works in every single situation (nor how animal movies, vehicles, landscapes, just about everything work from memory, they need references to understand that)
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>>63759374

Some people are unable to do that, though. Visual agnosia, I believe.
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>>63766923
I've only ever seen the movie why is he driving a jet?
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>>63759128
When it comes to published work it should be unacceptable. It's plagiarism, and as such getting caught should mean the end of your job. Hell, the fucking japs takes it more seriously than we do - Prism was canceled on account of it.

But instead we have worthless shitheads like Brevoort defending theft.
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I remember a time on /co/ where people acted liked using reference photos to be on the same level as tracing.

It was when Greg Land hate hit a fever pitch and the hate spilled out onto artists like Alex Ross because he used photos and models. I don't think Ross is A very interesting artist but the way he works is fine.

I think a lot of comic fans don't really know how art is done so when they learn an artist heavily uses reference(referencing not tracing) it takes the magic out of what they do so to speak. And some fans may not respond well to learning how an artist really does things, hence the misguided hatred of artists who heavily use photos being compared to Land.

I have to say though, seeing how Moebius uses reference, especially ref from commercial photographers, movie stills, magazine ads, etc so closely is wide. It's almost 1:1.

There's a pic going around shitting on Dobson for drawing Ridley from a reference found on Google almost 1:1
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>GIRAUD: Oh, yes, when I began working with Joseph Gillain, he taught me how to draw from photos. It’s a very special kind of skill; if you’re too loyal to the photo, it swallows you up. If, for instance, in the middle of a whole page of “personal” drawings, there is suddenly a drawing that is too…

>[JEAN-MARC] LOFFICIER: Overworked?

>GIRAUD: Not overworked, but too dependent on a photographic vision, it’s as if there’s a sudden hole in the page. You have to take the elements from the photo that you need, and retranscribe them through your personal computer, in order to get a personal vision. The same rule applies to drawing from nature. It’s very difficult, but it’s what enables the artist to bring his vision to a work. Otherwise he’s nothing but a parrot, or an ape. [pp. 86-87]
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>>63769955
>>
i don't like tracing on character models, i don't care much about other stuff, like buildings, skylines, well the famous ones.
if you don't get the proportions exactly right, it looks shite, because everyone knows how it's supposed to look
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>>63769785
Fuck I hate Brevoort so much.

It's not faux moral outrage, it's actual moral outrage you hack. This just happened in the world of concept art, Craig Mullins got caught literally cutting and pasting a painting by Waugh Frederick Judd into one his pieces and the entire industry leapt to his defence that it's perfectly acceptable because 'deadlines'.

If you have to steal the work of photographers and other artists to appease your paymasters, maybe the problem isn't the people complaining but the fact that the industry you work in has made you into amoral scum who'll adopt an 'anything goes' mentality to finish artwork quickly.
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>>63770001
>It's not faux moral outrage, it's actual moral outrage you hack.
Yeah, exactly. The best part is is how he talks about how Land is such a good artist...yet doesn't make the connection that the next line is
>Then why doesn't he do it from scratch?
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>>63764384
>And believe me: TRACING. IS. WHAT. DEVIANTART. IS. FAMOUS. FOR. AS. WELL.

explain
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When Brandon Graham was like hey cool I spotted that Moebius used Reference here. Some people say that and went.

> Wow. Moebius cheated. I loved that story and those images. I can't believe it. I just lost so much respect for him.

One of my teachers said Artists are one of the last Magicians. People can be really easily impressed from even a not that great drawing.

But when you learn one of your favorite artists heavily used reference, the secret to the "trick" is revealed. It's no longer mystifying. People are like "you mean that didn't come straight from his head, from scratch. I thought they could do that!"

Then comes the idea that the artist is "cheating", because the layman enjoying the work doesn't know how it's done. So you see people being outraged about how the art is done while the artists who do know how is works are like, well yeah. You favorite artist is no longer a graphic visually pulling out amazing dream scapes from his mind. Now he's a "cheater".
There's a picture, that I can't find right now, where moebius takes the pose from a cowboy movies and uses it as reference for the cover to a Blueberry book. The pose and clothing and gun are pretty much drawn exactly with Blueberry's face all up there. I find myself thinking if this wasn't Moebius, an artist that I and many people respect and is basically a legend now, would I be cool with this?

If this was a lesser artist would I be saying you can only copy this closely with photos you took? A lot of this comes down to your personal opinion on standards and ethics. Where do we draw the line?
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>>63764384
I would argue deviantart is more known for there "bases", which you're supposed to edit in with your favorite characters
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>>63770444

> Wow. Moebius cheated. I loved that story and those images. I can't believe it. I just lost so much respect for him.

That's hilarious. I've noticed that with a lot of fans on here and other boards--they really, really don't understand how a lot of artists work and have little knowledge of a lot of comic artwork in the past.
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It's not as if fans of capeshit have standards anyway.
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>>63770572
No they're usually the ones complaining the most about swiping
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>>63769785
Fuck Brevoort is a company man asshole through and through. Any complaints no matter how justified from lazy tracers to constantly rotating artists in order to double or triple ship a book to inflate earnings per quarter are just fans "whining". He's the kind of thoughtless pussy that just regurgitates whatever his boss spits in his mouth. He's entire position on any issue boils down to buy it or don't. We don't give a fuck about any valid constructive criticism or the overall quality of our work and the industry as a whole, buy it or don't I'm too lazy to care.
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>>63770543
I have to say, when I saw these images I too was like WHAAAAAAT.

I remember reading Kevin Maguire stuff as a kid and being really impressed at his expression, but I think if you told me he uses photo ref for a lot of this(which I think he clearly does) I would then think it wasn't all that impressive anymore.
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>>63770591

And yet it doesn't stop them from buying their weekly fix.
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>>63770624
>>63770543
I can get hating tracing.
I don't like it either, especially when the product looks like shit but referencing? Really?
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>>63770666
I think for a lot of people it takes the magic out of it. They assume their favorite artist is pulling all these cool poses from their head, how are they doing it. They're really good that is how. Oh they're using photos, well that's just "cheating"
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>>63768820
>cutting into a single part of a legitimate argument.

Lackadaisy traces architecture photos from period buildings in the artists town. Are you about to say Lackadaisy has bad art?
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>>63759196
>>63759227
This. Tracing is used a ton by many great artists. It's only a problem when people notice it. For instance many people will say highly detailed backgrounds in manga look great but the majority of them are traced. There's really no problem unless it's from another artist.
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>>63770744
>>63770666
It's hilarious really. I mean looking at this thread the people yelling the loudest have got it into their heads that "ALL TRACING/SWIPING = BAD" without knowing how many people swiped or traced in comics history.
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>>63770543
Yes it's really something only people who don't make comics hate. Anyone who draws comics a lot knows how it is.
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My favorites are Land. Even when he swipes he still traces in the porn face. Which are probably swiped now anyway.

No fucks given, it's great.
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>>63771575
>Yes it's really something only people who don't make comics hate. Anyone who draws comics a lot knows how it is.

But as Moebius says, if you stay too loyal to the photo is looks really out of place. You have to temper it.
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>>63759128
"real artists don't trace" is a pretty shallow comment.
Everybody within the business traces, and anyone who doesn't is a fool.
A lot of folks here seem to think that tracing destroys the "mind's eye," when in fact, it's an aide to it. Not everything can be drawn perfectly by an artist, and some things need more reference than others to get right. How many people on /co/ right now are practising, professional artists?
A lot of things that used to be traced are done these days by cg model, anyways.
And Greg Land is scum for tracing porn. Not because he traces, but because he traces porn.
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>>63771690
Well yes. That comes with being a good artist.
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>>63771690
>But as Moebius says, if you stay too loyal to the photo is looks really out of place. You have to temper it.

Yeah, that's why Moebius' stuff was effective and Land's isn't; Land's problem is less that he traces and more that a lot of his figures and faces look so out of place.
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>>63771696
it's like going to a pizzaria and finding out their pies are just those frozen pizzas you find at the grocery store
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>>63769038
Gerhard spent hours reconstituting and repurposing images for Cerebus. There's a spread in one issue that he cut-and-pastes three or four times the same issue- resizing and reworking where needed- because the drawing is so intricate and detailed to draw it every single time is insane.
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>>63771782
It's more like being a kid and learning the guy in the Darth Vader outfit isn't actually Darth Vader. It isn't morally wrong that that guy is actually an actor but it's disappointing because the kid has a misconception about what was really going.

A lot of comic artists have a misconception about how their artwork is done.
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>>63766450
>>63768820
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
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>>63771945
I mean Comic Fans
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>>63771782
Hardly. I understand your sentiment: "some of the magic's been lost!" but that's art. This is all art, in fact. The greatest comic artists trace. Kirby traced and swiped. He used collages on pages. Isn't just pasting images WORSE than tracing them? Yet he did, and is revered for the amount of quality work he was able to put out every month.
>>
>>63771945
It's like going to a book signing and finding out that the person who signed your book was just the stunt double
>>
>>63772031
It's like rain on your wedding day.
>>
>>63772016
>Kirby traced and swiped. He used collages on pages. Isn't just pasting images WORSE than tracing them?

I think Steranko did a page or two of his Nick Fury run like that.

It's funny because a lot of artists kind of do that with their backgrounds by using Photoshop. It just sticks out a lot of times because they're not skilled at using it.
>>
>>63772031
Not at all, it;s like assuming your favorite actor did all his own stunts, but he actually uses a stunt double.

That is an acceptable thing to do and it is how things are done. It's only disappointing because you assumed things were done a certain way and they aren't
>>
>>63772031
No that sounds more like someone using ghost artists. Which is also common in the industry, both comic book and comic strip even.
>>
>>63772172
Just because "that's how things are done" doesn't mean they are any more acceptable. Sweatshops aren't okay. Corporate collusion isn't okay.

Also I'd love to see a source that says that most professional artists trace. You seem to know a lot about drawing and art. Maybe you should make a thread about tracing on /ic/, I'd love to see what they would blow you out with.
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>>63772168
Aye, to harken back to the Ramondelli comments earlier, I don't see why he didn't trace his images, or at least do more than throw a few filters over it. It didn't bother me while reading it, and as an artist I knew they were images with filters over them. But I will admit that more time could be put into it.
I think Photoshop/Illustrator are crutches more than aides in that buttons/filters/fixes can be applied to anything within minutes; artists can get stuck in the thought of just hitting a few hot keys and bam-- it looks different enough to work as a background.
>>
>>63772273
Firstly
>sweatshops=tracing
Secondly
>ic=entirely professional artists and not mostly uni kids

You got step up your game, son
>>
>>63772273
>Also I'd love to see a source that says that most professional artists trace
Sure, it's called every professional artist. Go talk to a few.
>>
>>63772273
Tracing isn't great but it has it's uses. When people act like this when they find out their favorite artist used photo ref when they assumed he did it straight from scratch or his mind, it's stupid.

> Wow. Moebius cheated. I loved that story and those images. I can't believe it. I just lost so much respect for him.
>>
>>63772359
I wasn't saying sweatshops are equal to tracing you nitwit I was saying, "Just because "that's how things are done" doesn't mean they are any more acceptable." with some friendly examples so you, the reader, could understand it a little better. Also /ic/ knows more about professional art, not that its full of pros

>>63772391
You tried.

>>63772456
Tracing is far different from using a reference.
>>
>>63772544
You're the best around, and nothing's ever gonna bring you down.
>>
>>63769038
Christ, Gerhard is the Kentaro Miura of the west
>>
>>63772809
When having to draw the Regency Hotel for 50~ issues, Gerhard built an in-scale replica of it out of card and wire.
He also built numerous sets within Cerebus to allow him to have better understanding of how character would be moving through out the scenes.
>>
>>63771945
This.
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>>63772940
how can one Canadian be so based?
>>
>>63773006
He also lived in the wilderness with a bunch of dogs and spent his free time skiing or hunting.
I don't know, anon. This guy is to thank for what Cerebus became. It wouldn't be anything near the same without him.
>>
>>63772273
Not every artist traces but any professional comic artist will tell you that it's fine.
>>
>>63759128
Wally Wood, the man who pretty much defined comics during the EC hayday, created a few rules that allowed artists to create wonderful pieces as quickly as possible, to ensure everybody stayed on schedule but were still releasing quality work.

>Don't draw what you can copy
>Don't copy what you can trace
>Don't trace what you can cut and paste

These rules still apply today, and allow for great work to be done. So what's the problem?
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>>63773191
>These rules still apply today, and allow for great work to be done.
>>
>>63772273
>Also I'd love to see a source that says that most professional artists trace.

That really depends on what you mean by trace. Going by posts on /co/ some would attempt to claim >>63769841 is tracing. Hell, didn't Buckley get called out for something similar with a design for one of his characters?
>>
Here's the Steranko tweet refered to earlier in this thread:

https://twitter.com/iamsteranko/status/361697226122211328

Notice the names Steranko mentions, "Woody" is Wally Wood, one of the greatest artists at EC. Wally Wood once posted a note to himself that said "Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up." Phil Hester said he got his first gig at Marvel when the editor saw that Hester swiped "Wally Wood spaceship interior backgrounds."

Then Steranko mentions Frank Frazetta, Jack Kirby, John Buscema, Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, and Milton Caniff, all of whom whose work was incredibly influential on the comics industry. "Adkins" whom Steranko refers to is Dan Adkins, who worked under Wood as Steranko pointed out.

And there's probably a lot of others. I flipped through a reprint of All Star Comics #3 and noticed a panel in the Hawkman chapter where it was a lift from a Hal Foster Prince Valiant panel.
>>
>>63759128
What do you guys think about frankenstein style tracing?
It is, take a hand from one pic, leg from another on, torso from a different on slap them together and then draw over them (applying own modifications for consistency).
>>
>>63773504
Wait until people in this thread put two and two together and figure out that Mignola swipes.
>>
>>63773741
Steranko did it, Kirby did it; it works.

Tracing in the hands of a novice looks awful. Tracing in the hands of somebody who knows style and consistency is an art form.
>>
Greg Land thread?

Greg Land thread.
>>
>>63760119
and other artists...when their stuff gets traced as well or something comes out with a very similar feel to it.

i remember meeting arthur suydam at the local comicon back when marvel zombies first came out and he got pissed off at some guy who was wearing a zombie abe lincoln shirt demanding to know where he got it from.
>>
>>63773800
>Tracing in the hands of a novice looks awful.
Doesn't everything really?
>>
>>63773852
t-shirts is something else entirely and it's kind of awful.
Francesco Francavilla's Lovecraft poster was stolen by teefury. There are enough legal modifications, but it's clearly the same design.
>>
>>63759196
>>63759128
Wally Wood promoted tracing. And apparently did it himself, but no one ever found out where.

As long as it's not traced from another artist, OR is constantly traced over and over. If those rules are followed I am fine.

Comics are about being economical, as well as being detailed
>>
>>63773852
>abe lincoln

meant uncle sam. my bad.
>>
>>63773849
Tracing Iron Man mechs isn't that big of a deal. Especially when the movie came out, hiring the guy to draw Iron Man that can produce a Robert Downey Jr. look-a-like 100% of the time is a smart move.
Hiring the guy that traces pornstars for a book with a diverse female cast is not.
>>
>>63763830
>>63760550
>>63760636
I think he was right to say:
>Confirmed for not knowing much about art

Do you even know that people are advised to copy the old masters to learn from them? Or do you just listen to people who scream "NO DON'T TRACE, PLAGARISM = BAD" and not think? >>63760456
only said:
>Trace to learn. Its training wheels anon. Learn why this does that then eventually you can draw it for real. Think.
It wasn't even anything like "just trace and get it published", just trace to learn. There's even examples of such things.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/revealed-how-turner-began-his-career-copying-the-old-masters-918048.html
http://gravedancer.biz/edgar-degas-copying-the-old-masters.html
>>
>>63773986

the treachery is in the fact he traced photos of a real fan-made costume.
>>
>>63762176
This isn't traced, it's used as a reference. Hell, if I was one of the guys in the picture, I'd have this framed.
>>
>>63773504
And if you an example of a Frazetta swipe:

http://boingboing.net/2012/05/14/frazetta-swiped-from-the-best.html
>>
>>63760636
>Referencing works because you're seeing how the proportions work, tracing doesn't because you're not learning proportions. you're just drawing over a picture.
I am inclined to agree and disagree. If you are just tracing everything, to get an identical result, then of course you will learn nothing.
But if you are changing things about the original picture - slightly modifying the pose, playing with the build, attempting a different coloring style (Original is a cel shaded drawing and you put full shading,original is a photo and you are putting some stylized contrant etc) then you are definitely learning a lot. Maye it's less efficient then normal reference in terms of skill gain, but on the other hand, you can also get better products, resulting in better motivation to draw more.
>>
>>63774075
While I have to agree an the framing on the wall part, this should not happen. Referencing is also only good for the general posing and stuff, but when you copy literally all the details, it's just... just wrong.
>>
>>63773849
I see absolutely no problem with those. The pictures are obviously modified so are proportions (slightly), armor build is different, poses are not very original, and shading is brand new.
Considering how generic the pose is in the last one, I'd even question if it's even a trace.
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Couldn't resist.
>>
Can produce some nice laughs.
>>
>>63772273
>Maybe you should make a thread about tracing on /ic/, I'd love to see what they would blow you out with.

You mean the board that has this thread?

>>>/ic/1779198

Really?
>>
>>63773849
>tracing
>not just drawing every generic hero pose ever
>>
>>63776533
That's not traced. Seriously dude. Look at it. It's clearly not traced at all.

It's a referenced homage.

Fucking step it up dude. Learn what words mean.
>>
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I was looking at the sources (mostly Comics Journal issues) for the comics swipe list on wikipedia and this was one of the ones mentioned.

I know that Bleeding Cool's Swipe File was based off of Comics Journal's Swipe File and Swipe of the Week, but I didn't realize that Bleeding Cool's Swipe File's description was purposefully taking from Comics Journal's description. Well played, Rich. Well played.
>>
>>63778467
Not as funny if you weren't there.
>>
>180 replies
>not 180 posts of "tracing sucks"
>>
>>63781977
That's an improvement.
>>
>>63779883
swipe or homage?

homage i'd say
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>>63781952
I requested that picture.
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>>63782130
Still.
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>>63759128
Forgetting about any of the moral issues, most traced images look like shit and I can't see how people could accept something that looks so awful
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>>63782129
It's certainly a homage. In context each comic was doing a different thing. The Yummy Fur comic was a one-pager where the kid was telling a story about how an Inuit hunter got his dick bit. The Tales From The Crypt story was about the kid dreaming about his teacher getting put through a shitload of horrific perils.
>>
Depends on the kind of tracing.
Tim Bradstreet does his own photography for his cover art for example.
>>
I remember when i used to have facebook and a bunch of "artists" i knew would take requests for shit to draw and it would usually be a pokemon or cartoon character or something like that, the funny thing is it was usually just a trace of the first or second image you'd find on google of said character. I don't really mind tracing but there's no point pretending that it's a talent.
>>
>>63779827
I know, I just got reminded of that memorable moment in SSM and couldn't resist.
>>
>>63764404
>projecting this hard
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>>63759128
I don't really care about tracing - I just wish they'd be less obvious about it and credit sources when they do.

Or hell why not take original pictures?
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Always had this stuffed in my folder and never had a decent enough chance to post it
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>>63759227
I agree, but also tracing from copyrighted photographs without permission or credit is as bad as doing it from other people's drawings.

Did you take your own pictures to do it? Great. Did you use free stock pictures, or purchased stock photos to trace? Awesome.

Did you just take a pro photographer's work, or even worse, someone's private pictures and used them without asking? Fuck off.
>>
>>63790659
The hell is that?
Thread replies: 196
Thread images: 26
Thread DB ID: 5304



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