>>1091630 I don't give a shit about the drug pricing but it's alleged he withdrew funds he was managing from customer accounts at his hedge fund and spent said funds on personal expenses. If true he's a fucking idiot and deserves the impending ass-rape he gets from his fellow inmates (who are under the impression he killed a bunch of people with aids by keeping them from needed medicine).
>toxiplasmosis is directly related to HIV and nothing else >there are still people who believe this is about butt pirate meds >there are still people who haven't been able to post a single example of someone who hasn't received this medication when they need it
Yea, ethics arent inherent...neither are airplanes, nor skyscrapers, nor humans themselves. No, greek "ethos" is not that much different than ethics. It was always the study of what was acceptable in public life. Stop being a retard any time now, pls
>>1091630 >Dad is a drug addict, fucks mom. >Dad had aids, from using drugs, gives them to mom after sex. >Be me, just born, no dad around. >Mom raises me, says I am a good little girl, so I act like one, most of the time. >Teenage years, get very sick, but mom and boyfriend are there for me. >Doctor says that girl has aids, cause dad was a druggie who got aids from unprotected sex, sharing needles, and such, which was then given to my mom. >Apparently, kid now had aids, despite never even having had sex or doing drugs. >Boyfriend stays and mom feels responsible. >Girl learns not to trust adults, and now feels responsible and bad cause she can't give boyfriend sex. >Breaks up with boyfriend, cause no sex is terrible for a teenage boy who treats a girl like a queen. >Leaves home, cause fucks parents for contracting aids. >Living off pay check to pay check, job to job, no education. >Be poor, and have to fight to not die from aids, all while trying to not call in sick from work, or else no food or shelter. >Most powerful drug available for the price is available. >Drug saves life, makes another day an actual possibility. >Dream of surviving long enough for a cure for aids to be finished, but always wake up, knowing it may never come. >Just want an education and a job to live off without struggle. >Wake up one day, find out drug is now too expensive. >Too weak to work, bedridden, lose jobs, get kicked out of apartment. >People say girl is just whore, must have done drugs, make aids jokes. >Reputation ruined, currently homeless, will never find a guy in this city to love. >Find out that the guy who made drug too expensive said that if I was not able to afford drug, I could get it for free. >Get told the exact opposite, and find out that man will never experience the pain he has caused others. >Remember wanting to buy boyfriend an old Wu Tang Clan CD to thank him, but couldn't. >Aids guy claims to struggle, yet just bought a Wu Tang Vinyl for two million, only to bury it
>might makes right >ethics don't exist >anyone who disagrees with me is a pinko commie liberal
What's with these edgelords on here?
You know that one book /biz/ recommends in its reading lists, Thinking Fast and Slow? It studies inevitable failings of human rationality, due to the way the human brain works, and eventually goes on to suggest how to solve these problems and improve society. The author shakes his head at hardcore ancap stuff, and recommends "libertarian paternalism" over super Friedman views. This way, the government can prevent people getting scammed all the time, nudge them in the right direction, and create a happier society in general.
This is from your own fucking reading list, /biz/. The edgelords among you need to spend less time bashing libruls and more time reading.
>>1091923 Friend, I am above the national income median, but not wealthy. And I am rather impressively built. It would be nothing to squish you like the goblins that you resemble both physically and ethically.
>spike a drug's price cold turkey instead of doing it gradually >provide no justification as it's an old drug with an expired patent >due to expired patent, competitor steps in and sells exact same drug for $1, riding off the PR wave by looking like good guys while taking your marketshare >go bankrupt and get delisted from Nasdaq >dip into your failing hedge fund to cover costs and pay for LoL skins Evil is subjective, incompetence is objective.
>>1091630 There is no price at which you "deserve" anything. Not food, not water, not shelter. Nothing. Whether you have a disease by poor choices or bad luck is immaterial. You still have to pay the costs of what you need to live, just like anything else. Is a high end restaurant "evil" because it charges a lot for food even though some people starve? Are mansions evil because some people are homeless? If you own something you can sell it to someone else for whatever price the two of you agree upon, this is the central concept of the free markets that have generated all the wealth and progress of the last 500 years or so.
The frighteningly wrong part isn't that he's charging whatever he wants for his drugs, the wrong part is that no one can legally undercut him.
>>1092495 >implying it is a basic human right to have access to a drug just because it exists That's like saying there should be no homeless people and we should make all homes affordable to everyone. Also, patents don't stop anyone else from making the drug, just profiting off of it. If people were all bleeding hearts there would be lifesaving drugs in the hands of everyone who needed them. Your average person is not altruistic, however, they are greedy. Why should we expect businesses to not be greedy too?
Someone referred to Bridger Capital as "They are Battle Funds. Only serve the purpose of destroying companies who are up and coming. Like anyone who is doing borderline illegal activites or at the very least very immoral, they want to stay out of the light. "
What does Battle Funds mean? My thinking is that it's set up so that assholes can use it to smash competition, is that the case?
The illegal part I don't really give a shit about, but immoral as in destroying companies by legally doing it? Like the guy who is fucking Catherine Zeta Jones did in Wall Skreet to Charlie Sheens dad's airplane company?
>>1091630 (OP) >spend the money on research for other diseases Yeah... do you have any evidence that he's doing that?
>>1091664 >He's exploiting a loophole that only hurts insurance companies, but not individuals You do realize that it's legal for insurance companies to just stop covering a drug, right? If the price of a drug rises 5000% and the insurance company pays the lion's share of the bill, then why would they continue covering it?
Shkreli has said, probably correctly, that insurance premiums will not rise as a result of the price increase. But that doesn't mean that people with insurance will definitely have access to the drug. And it's not like somebody with AIDs will be able to switch providers, no insurance company in their right mind would take on somebody with an expensive and lethal illness.
>He even said he'd pay for the medicine himself for a person if they just send him an email This is a clever ruse. It would be illegal for him to release people's medical records to prove that he's doing it. But I have yet to see any stories about people standing up and saying he followed through. I know I would if I got life-saving drugs for free, so that makes me question whether he's telling the truth.
>>1092591 Not really. Believing that he's giving drugs out for free without any proof is just believing what you want to believe. Lack of proof = proof? Not logical at all. It's illogical to believe someone who's openly driven by profit is altruistically giving out drugs for free.
yet he's said it in about 7 interviews I've seen with him today on youtube
7 out of 7
what he's also saying is why the public gives a fuck if walmart has to pay $750 a pill for an employee's health insurance, why we should care if walmart is losing money
you're acting like some AIDS faggot wouldn't get crazy in the media, and that the media wouldn't pick up the story, if his boyfriend died of AIDS and couldn't get this drug which only a few thousand people need
it's not like this drug is THE AIDS DRUG, the head honcho of AIDS drugs
>>1092607 Like I said earlier, >You do realize that it's legal for insurance companies to just stop covering a drug, right? Walmart can also choose to stop stocking the drug. You're right, I don't care if Walmart is losing money. But Walmart does, and if they're paying $750 a pill and selling it for $25, then they'll stop stocking it. Pretty much the entire medical industry has pointed this out; even some hospitals have commented that they're not able to stock it anymore because it's so expensive to buy it before someone needs it (and therefore before their insurance company pays for it).
And you're also correct, this isn't >THE AIDS DRUG, and that's because AIDS isn't a disease. Let me spell it out for you: AUTO. IMMUNE. DEFICIENCY. SYNDROME. This means that your body isn't able to fight off infections, due to the HUMAN IMMUNODEFICIENCY VIRUS (HIV) destroying your T cells. Somebody with AIDS can die of the common cold. Daraprim is used to treat Malaria and Toxoplasmosis. It's on the WHO's list of Essential Medicines for a reason, and that's because people with Toxoplasmosis will definitely die without it. (http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/93142/1/EML_18_eng.pdf?ua=1)
>you're acting like some AIDS faggot wouldn't get crazy in the media, and that the media wouldn't pick up the story, if his boyfriend died of AIDS and couldn't get this drug which only a few thousand people need The first person would get crazy media coverage, you're right. But as Shkreli has demonstrated, what he's doing is legal, and he actually likes being seen as a bad person. So I'm not really sure what you think yet another media frenzy would do to force his hand.
>>1092558 I think you grossly misunderstood my post, or maybe I just wasn't clear. I wasn't making a case for free stuff at all.
>Also, patents don't stop anyone else from making the drug, just profiting off of it. This is just incorrect. Patents don't just apply to things people charge money for. If you make Daraprim in your basement and hand it out to people for free you can still be sued for violating Shkreli's patent. IP law makes a mockery of the harm principle.
>>1092627 >You do realize that it's legal for insurance companies to just stop covering a drug, right?
yeah they can legally do that as a company who wants to treat someone in the same light raising the drug's price to $750 makes Shkreli seem and they'd have to give notice, they can't just sign you up for x amount of coverage and then when shkreli does this say "no fuck you, not now, contact a lawyer" I mean they can but it's not worth it to lose millions over a few thousand for someone who's probably going to die
> You're right, I don't care if Walmart is losing money I wasn't talking about walmart stocking the drug you dumb fuck
I was talking about corporations and employers who give health benefits
this pill is literally needed by less than 5,000 people, do you actually know how health insurance and hospitals work in the USA?
>even some hospitals have commented that they're not able to stock it anymore because it's so expensive to buy it before someone needs it (and therefore before their insurance company pays for it). >before someone needs it so they still get it....there's no problem here as it's a rare drug and rare need for it
>So I'm not really sure what you think yet another media frenzy would do to force his hand. wait a second, why would his hand have to be forced? is english your first language? you can't seem to read properly
I'm saying that if any person period, died of not being able to get Shkreli's drugs it would be a well known fact he isn't giving it out for free
you've said ". Believing that he's giving drugs out for free without any proof is just believing what you want to believe. "
So far that's not the case, because like I said the media would shout that story from the top of the mountains
>>1092646 >it's not worth it to lose millions over a few thousand for someone who's probably going to die Yeah, they wouldn't lose millions. It's legal. Meaning that if they were sued then they would win. You are incorrect, insurers don't have to keep providing the exact same drugs they were when they first approved you. Here's a source, find a source to back up your belief if you can: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/04/can-insurers-stop-covering-drugs-without-warning/index.htm
>I wasn't talking about walmart stocking the drug you dumb fuck >I was talking about corporations and employers who give health benefits >this pill is literally needed by less than 5,000 people, do you actually know how health insurance and hospitals work in the USA? This is 0% logical argument, 100% butthurt. Do you actually have a point?
>so they still get it....there's no problem here as it's a rare drug and rare need for it Eventually, yes. But a severely immunocompromised person needs it today, not after the few days it takes to get from Turing's storage facility. I understand that you don't care, but saying that "there's no problem" is just incorrect from the patient's perspective.
>I'm saying that if any person period, died of not being able to get Shkreli's drugs it would be a well known fact he isn't giving it out for free I agree. The media would point it out. However, this would not force his hand, i.e. force him to lower the price or force him to give the drug out for free. It would not force him to do ANYTHING. That's what you're missing, it doesn't matter how much more outraged the public gets, Shkreli is legally allowed to keep the price at $750, meaning that insurance companies will drop the drug from their formularies and patients will no longer be able to get Daraprim treatments covered by their insurance. If you need a definition of formulary, here you go: http://www.health.ny.gov/health_care/medicaid/program/medicaid_transition/definitions.htm
>find a source to back up your belief if you can: my cousin's fat ass lukemia having medical insurance, $30,000 a month to keep her fat ass alive
they aren't cutting anything, but they're not covering her when it runs it's term
she'll never pass a physical again
so they're either gonna have to pay up, or she can get shitter medicine for cheaper
> not after the few days it takes to get from Turing's storage facility.
so he wouldn't spend the $30 to overnight it is what you're saying?
$750 per pill, and he wouldn't splurge to have it sent next day guaranteed?
I would bet most of his stuff is shipped and arrives within 24 hours of him receiving the order, comes with insurance and tracking # too
it wouldn't be a few days
>However, this would not force his hand, I never said it would you fucking idiot, you've inserted a point into an argument that has nothing to do with your response to me unless it's purpose is to serve yourself.
It would have been heard about and in the media within minutes of it happening, so for you to act like you've seen no proof that he has given it away for free, there is an equal side to that where you haven't see any that he has not given the drug away for free. You can then add on the immediate shit storm that would be THE Martin Shkreli headline so far, which he may just let happen just to get some press. So there's an overwhelming chance that he has given it away for free cause he's running his mouth about it and nobody has said, let alone proven he's not.
I don't need a definition of "formulary" because health insurance contracts are still legally binding in their majority in the USA, if X is covered for Y that's what was agree upon.
>>1092711 >my cousin's fat ass lukemia having medical insurance, $30,000 a month to keep her fat ass alive >they aren't cutting anything, but they're not covering her when it runs it's term >she'll never pass a physical again >so they're either gonna have to pay up, or she can get shitter medicine for cheaper Your response to "find a source" is an anecdote? Come on. I'm not mocking you here, I'm stating a simple fact: if you're right, then you should be able to find a source. Your fat cousin's health problems and her choices that have contributed are irrelevant to the case of somebody with AIDS and Toxoplasmosis. I'd like to believe that Shkreli is actually a decent person but so far there's literally nothing concrete to suggest that fact.
>so he wouldn't spend the $30 to overnight it is what you're saying? You have a point, they'd probably get the drug in time not to die. That being said, the whole point of stocking the drug proactively is to reduce the chance of people dying of a lethal disease because they have no immune system. Turing's price hike undeniably increases the risk of a swift decline and death. One day is a lot when your body has no ability to fight off infection. It's not like you instantaneously know you have Toxoplasmosis when it enters your body.
>I don't need a definition of "formulary" because health insurance contracts are still legally binding in their majority in the USA, if X is covered for Y that's what was agree upon. Apparently you do. Health insurance contracts don't have an exhaustive list of treatments contained in them. That would be ridiculous, it would mean that if a new treatment came out after I got insurance the company would say "Whoops that wasn't invented/discovered when you signed up for insurance, so we won't cover it." Insurance companies can drop treatments when they want, just as they can add them when they want. If you're not going to read the source then find one that backs up your point.
>>1092752 >It's not like you instantaneously know you have Toxoplasmosis when it enters your body. To add on to this, two serious symptoms of Toxo are brain lesions and permanent vision loss. Daraprim doesn't fix that.
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