>be making 3 times the average household income as a single person.
Do you tell your friends how much you make? During conversations with friends, they mentioned their salary and I've always gotten away by giving them a ballpark figure. Most of us are in the same industry so they think they have an idea of my pay, but they always come under by at least 20k.
Where I live, it's not taboo to talk about one's earning. In fact, it's normal.
I don't usually mention how much I make because it sounds like bragging, but other people often do it for me.
>hint: it's roughly 12x the national average
What do you do OP?
anon, were you the guy with the shitty shoes and pants?
By that I mean they looked atrocious and Walmart tier.
If I recall correctly you were on or around a train and got so butthurt you stopped answering questions.
Also, your gloves are ugly, cheap, and don't fit you.
20k is really a negligible difference. Investing your savings in a vanguard vs not investing at all (like 90% of the population)
Just lie about your salary if you don't want them to know. Why is this coming into conversations enough to be an issue anyway?
Sharing earnings information, especially among coworkers and people in the same industry, has been proven to increase the average salary in that office, firm, or general field by giving greater bargaining power to employees.
Stay cucked, faggot.
>letting some made up workplace morality hinder you and your friends
If OP told his friends what he was making, they could ask for more at their next contract extension.
>I'm the employer, not the employee
That's the only reason anyone would reasonably want to keep salary information private within the industry.
Also, I'm a freelancer, this doesn't affect me, I'm just stating socioeconomic facts.
>I don't usually mention how much I make because it sounds like bragging
my thoughts exactly, but people always ask especially if everyone is bitching about their jobs
>What do you do OP?
software dev in IB
>Sharing earnings information, especially among coworkers...
I generally agree, I tend to switch jobs every few years because I hear from friends/industry peers their salaries and see a pay disparity.
but I also have friends that are fresh out of college/starving artists types, and I think they would change the dynamics of the friendship if they knew an actual figure
>anon, were you the guy with the shitty shoes and pants?
probably, what thread was this?
got chicken nuggets for my dog, ftw.
>If OP told his friends what he was making, they could ask for more at their next contract extension.
"B-but anon makes $100k!! You HAVE to give me 100k!"
"sorry but you're not that valuable"
There's no reason to compare earnings with friends, even if they are in the same industry. Just opens them up to being asked for handouts or being looked down at.
Discussing with colleges might cause friction if there's a huge pay disparity for the same job.
Discussing with friends might seem odd if there's a huge income gap. you'll look like a cheap ass to them if you don't buy all of them drinks when you go out because they make a fraction of your pay.
>There's no reason to compare earnings with friends, even if they are in the same industry.
>anon 1 and anon 2 do a similar job
>anon 1 makes 30% more
>anon 2 knows this and asks for 30% more
>"you're not that valuable"
>"10% increase or I walk"
>"done because I'm not a retard and know the costs of hiring someone new and training them are way more than that"
I realize that, among friend, it could cause a few rifts.
But then again, if your friends are gonna resent you for being successful, maybe you need better friends, eh?
It's not vulgar though. It's the same as discussing any other aspect of business. The West just collectively decided it's vulgar, to the detriment of the work force.
Ever think about why that is? It's because the employer loses money to the employees when they start talking about it. Also, nobody's going to fire their entire office, assuming the job involves skill and education.
>"10% increase or I walk"
"walk then, we'll hire someone new for 10% less than what you're being paid now"
>But then again, if your friends are gonna resent you for being successful, maybe you need better friends, eh?
Humans will always be jealous when their friends are doing better than them. The person they're jealous of just has to not be beta and the friendship will remain normal.
>le business owners made it taboo for max profits!!!
Which Russian satellite state are you from that gives you these untrue anti-capitalist ideas?
Only a single, well-off friend of mine knows what I make, which varies since I make all my cash through investing which gets me huge loads on random occasions (Last month's bouncy oil prices got me about ~20 years worth of extremely cheap living expenses)
The moment my parents, with whom I have a rather lacking bond, figure out I have money to pay my brothers 25k euro debt ten times over, I'm only going to be a piggy bank for them.
And my mother is pretty good at making people feel horrible. The twat.
>Ever think about why that is? It's because the employer loses money to the employees when they start talking about it
No shit Sherlock. It's also bad for morale.
Next you'll be explaining that the sky is blue and water is wet.
>"walk then, we'll hire someone new for 10% less than what you're being paid now"
>"walk then, we'll hire someone new for 10% less than what you're being paid now"
Any semi-valuable skilled employee would not get fired in this scenario. New people have a costly learning curve, and talk about "bad for morale" if people can get fired over asking to be treated fairly. That's ridiculous.
If it wasn't, everyone would do it in order to save money, even without the extra wage demand on behalf of the employee.
Why is it that most westerners seem to identify with the people who are directly taking money out of their pockets?
It's not anti-capitalist to want transparent salaries, it's common sense for everyone except the one paying the salaries.
I'd say a few things about how you people collectively destroyed your own unions, but then I'd really be in for the regular 'HURR DURR ALL SOCIALISM IS EVIL WE WANT TO BE RAPED FINANCIALLY' /pol/ nonsense.
Oh, I get it. You have all been bred to think that you will some day be among the ones holding the billions, and therefore should protect them against the regular salary guy, even though realistically 99.99% of you will always be the regular guy being swindled.
In my circle of friends we don't really care what each other make unless someone needed help. If it comes up we'll talk openly about it.
Outside of that no. I don't like when people ask me either. Especially not how much I save. I've made this mistake. They'll act okay with it at first but secretly resent you or expect you to buy things/help them because "anon, youve got X in savings!". Act dirt poor, always.
>talk about "bad for morale" if people can get fired over asking to be treated fairly. That's ridiculous.
They're not asking to be treated fairly, they're asking to be paid more. People should be paid according to how well they perform/how much value they bring, and that's how it usually works. If all salaries were open knowledge then less valuable employees will bitch and complain, and as a result, employers would be less inclined to pay top performers for what they're worth.
You don't see highly skilled people pursuing government jobs because the incomes are fixed, and they're fixed because they're public knowledge.
You know that's straight-up illegal, right? Even suggesting to an employee that you'd prefer it if they didn't discuss their salary with others is against the law, let alone firing them for doing it.
>It's not anti-capitalist to want transparent salaries, it's common sense for everyone except the one paying the salaries.
The problem is, the majority of the population are very poor capitalists. Most are envious gibs. The rest are simply envious.
>People should be paid according to how well they perform/how much value they bring, and that's how it usually work
That's not how it works though. Employers will pay as little as they can get away with, that's financial common sense.
Of course it's about performance to a good extent, but it also comes down to the employee's negotiating skills and how much research he puts into it beforehand.
It's fair to say that it's then the employee's own fault for getting less than he can, but, for example, a programmer's earnings shouldn't hinge on how good he is at negotiation or research. His job has nothing to do with that.
The majority of the population are ignorant assholes. This whole argument is purely theoretical for me, I have 0 emotional investment in the fate of ignorant asshole here or there or anywhere in the world.
But I do think it's unfair.
You ignored the main point in my post. The fact that more effective employees will be paid less if salary information is openly available to other workers. The employer will be pressured to keep the salary equal by the worse employees, who could complain/go on strike if they see someone else being paid slightly more than them "for the same job" (even though the better employee gets twice as much done).
Effective workers don't need to be amazing at negotiation or research new technologies or whatever. They just need to make sure they employer knows how much more they are contributing over other employees.
This is only slightly related but: I was told a story by a high up manager at a tech company that one of his highly effective engineers said that he wanted to quit to work at a start up. Money wasn't much of a concern for him and he wanted to have more fun at his job. The manager offered him freedom to work on any project he'd like, and only 3 days of work per week. All at the same pay. It isn't an exaggeration when people say "80% of the work gets done by 20% of the workers"
>You know that's straight-up illegal, right?
Kek. Show me that law kid.
Your employer can fire you for any non-discriminatory reason, or for no reason at all (assuming at will jurisdiction here, obviously). They can fire you for liking classic rock. They can fire you for preferring vanilla ice cream over chocolate. They can fire you because you pick your nose. They most certainly can fire you for discussing salary with co-workers.
"You wouldn't believe me if I told you."
Stand firm to that, and change the subject.
Drink expensive cocktails.
Eat expensive meals.
Wear expensive clothes.
Never tell anyone how much you make.
In the state of Florida they can fire you for literally any reason they feel like. They fired a catering manager at this hotel I worked at because she had CANCER They waited till they found her replacement and just bye felicia. They replaced her promptly.
You can buy McNuggets in fours in manhattan? I can only buy them in sixes.
I'm an apprentice so I compare wage sometimes. The pay structures tend to vary so it's hard to say who's doing better. Also cost of living in remote areas, etc.
I will say that a lot of people make decent money but they spend it aggressively or they consider financed items as "owned", it's weird. So I don't really talk about money too much because it's a minefield of cognitive dissonance for a lot of people.
There's really no reason to unless they ask. I also try not to discuss the exact amount with direct colleagues and they do the same. I think it's just better that way. If a friend asks I'm not going to lie.
I'm pretty young and don't have a lot of relevant experience so it wouldn't surprise me if I don't make as much as the other people on my team. From talking to them, I don't think I make much less though. Also given that I don't have much experience, if it turns out I make more than them they would probably be pretty unhappy.
I don't know. It doesn't really matter. It's just dick waving.
They don't tell you it's against policy. It's an innate understanding at most companies. You just don't do it, not if you value your employment.
An acceptance of reality is not defending it.
>Depends on the state
50/50 states in the U.S. recognize at will employment, and approximately 42/50 make no exception for bad faith terminations. So while you're technically correct, the reality is that you can and will be legally fired for discussing salary in the workplace more often than not. That tends to make it bad idea, cuck.
This guy is right. Not discussing salary is an artificial taboo created for the middle class plebs by the higher ups. If they don't know what the other guys are getting, in theory they'll stay at their maximum productivity and will not look around. However, today you got glassdoor and generally its more relaxed amongs younger employees so people simply leave. As an employer (I hire contractors to help me with my own projects on UpWork) this doesn't affect me at all since its an open platform and people set their own wages accordingly, shredding quality for lower costs isn't even a consideration for me. As an employee we had four software devs leave for greener pastures in the past six months out of a team of ten. I'm leaving as soon as I find a higher paying job where I get to do cool things. Working for a big blue tentacle monster sucks :(.
When it comes to friends I find that it has done more bad than good for me. However, some of my best friendships are the ones where we both mutually help out when it comes to cash. It's a tough relationship to foster but you have to start off small. Offer to buy drinks and then see if they ever return the favor, chances are if they can't spot you a couple of bucks they might not have the best intentions if they ask you for more money, like maybe a month's rent to help them out.
I think if I ever end up with a lot of wealth that I'd like to self manage it as much as possible.
>federally protected speech.
Free speech protection in a private workplace. LOL!
I realize you're not American, but please take the time to learn what free speech means if you're going to try discussing it on the internet.
Now I realize I'm not a lawyer but here's what I found on google:
Sounds like there is legal protection for Americans discussing their wages in the workspace.
The act says that companies covered by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) cannot limit employees’ concerted activities for the purpose of “collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection” according to Section 7 of the NLRA."
In order words, union companies cannot prohibit union employees from discussing union salaries with other union employees for purposes of negotiating union contracts. This makes sense because how could the union effectively negotiate salaries if its employees were prohibited from discussing the subject.
That's a far cry from telling Bob in Accounting that you're making $10K/year more than him.
Legal or not - I've personally seen people let go for it. That's never the cited reason for termination but everyone familiar with the situation knew why.
They 'failed to meet performance standards' or some other corporate non-sense reason. Good luck proving that in court.
I never got people who don't talk about their salaries, it's bullshit propaganda upper level employees instill into their underlings to prevent people from realizing their being underpaid for their labor.
It's always interesting to me how this sentiment really only exists in the upper-middle class and above.
My upper-middle class friends have no idea what their own fucking parents make. Meanwhile, I know exactly how much my dad and my grandparents have in the bank right now and my dad's precise hourly wage. (We were working class for the first decade of my life). Even now, I'm always the one to forego social conventions and ask my friends how much they're making at a new job. It's not like they actually mind being asked. I have two friends making 80k first year out of college. No reason not to be proud of that and share it with people.