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You are currently reading a thread in /biz/ - Business & Finance

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Best coding language to learn so that I can use those skills for some side money and maybe potentially turn that to full time?

Where to apply ? Craiglist?
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"what lang is gud 4 monez"

GTFO
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>>1066843
No. The market in shitty code is already dominated by indians that will build a Warcraft like MMO for 100 bucks.
The only way to make real money coding is by being good and having a lot of experience. You need both brains and dedication.
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>>1066862
Any freelance job I could do then ? Translation ?

Where to find?
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>>1066843

It'd have to be at least C++/Java, but there are so many code monkeys you really need to be exceptional if you want to stand out. Luckily code monkeys breed code monkeys. Code monkey code is so shit they need more code monkeys to hack it into working.
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Learn Javascript w/ Node.js and React.js, HTML and CSS.
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>>1066862

I think the only way to make money as a coder is making your own website, but even then there are so many programs that pretty much do it for you (CMS etc) that it's pretty unnecessary.

Don't fall for the programming meme, it's not even fun to do.
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I'm not giving away my cash cow, but literally just CSS.
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>>1066919
Lel what. I can make moneyfrom just CSS? How is that true?
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>>1066879
topkek
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>>1067051

>Offer to 'pimp out' websites with le premium design on cragslist etc.
>copy pasta free template
>tweak some things to make it look unique
>??
>profit
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>>1066843
Java is probably the most sought after language because of the sheer volume of stuff written in in, but ancient languages e.g. cobol, fortran, ada, etc. would pay better if you have the patience to deal with maintaining code written in the early 80's and bandaid-patched since.

That said....if you don't already know how to program (not just the language, but also software architecture, algoritms and data structures, project management, systems design, systems analysis, dev tools, a bit of server admin and networking experience, etc....) you probably won't be able to make a decent living off of it.

>>1066871
If you're looking for translation jobs, search for "internationalization" or "localization"

>>1066891
>>1066915
>>1066919
>>1067051
Don't fall for this meme. Web design / CSS stuff isn't really programming (at my uni the web design guys only have like 4 courses in their program that overlap with the software dev and other "hard" IT courses).

If you want to earn money as a programmer you will most likely be working for some company maintaining and occasionally adding features to a line-of-business program, or a HR management system, or some tedious crap. You very rarely get to build a system from the ground up, and most of the time only very senior developers get to actually architect the new systems.

That said, if you can make money doing custom themes for an existing CMS like >>1067075 is saying, go for it.

At the end of the day OP, just start programming and see if you like it, then decide if it's right for you as an income source.
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>>1067083
>muh web design is a meme

Guy's looking to make some cash on the side. Web design is the easiest way to do that as a "programmer."
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>>1067188

The biggest problem I have with "web design" is that as a freelancer your only real prospects are the people who were too cheap to pay a real company the 5k to do a site. So I get a prospect I already know full well, that is only going to offer a few hundred to 1000 for a 5000 job.

Webdesign outside the big firms really sucks balls
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>>1067199
That's why u have to distinguish yourself / market / work faster than your competition etc.

You're going to run into the problem of 'the big boys on the block taking most of the business' in almost any field. It's all work, just find your niche and do it really well.
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>>1067199
>1000 to 5000 job
Which everyone knows is way overpriced. You don't really need to charge that as a freelancer. Your goal isn't to get a couple jobs a month, it is to get a couple dozen and charge like $200-$300 each. Just go in to local businesses around you and drop off a business card. Most of these business owners have been putting off redesign of their shitty sites for a while. If you can also not just design the site but add a little functionality (like a Paypal add-on) for example you can justify charging extra. When I was doing web design I would knock out a couple websites a day. I had so much business that I had to start turning some clients down.
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>>1067221
>5000 job
>overpriced
Nah, not from an investment point of view.
Might be difficult to sell, but particularly in the case of e-shops the value they add in a single year can easily be 10x-100x that.

I sold conveyor belts, presses, saws, pipebenders and CNC manufacturing centres in the B2B market, and most start at 5000 or much, much higher (Manufacturing centres were around 2.2Million a pop) and with amortization times around 3-5 years.
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>>1066862
>The market in shitty code is already dominated by indians that will build a Warcraft like MMO for 100 bucks
What if I want to do that? What if I just want some job where I code crap for 100 bucks, just so I have a job?

what lang senpai
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Just find one that you like, I have this bot making me ~1k per month 99,9% on autopilot. You can do cool shit.
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>>1067299
If there was web development involved I can see the $5000 being worth it. Basic design? Not even close
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Agree with the poster recommending you avoid the web design meme; it's not real programming, it's for schmucks.

Learn the fundamentals of coding in Ruby or Python, learning good OOP style, creating web servers etc. Then it's a short jump to compiled languages like Java, C#, Objective C, perhaps try your hand at a mobile app.

It's another level-up to learn C++ where you're closer to the hardware and managing memory yourself, but it's well worth having it in your arsenal.
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>>1067306
Java or Ruby, the former for a depressive bureaucratic job, the latter for a stoner startup with microwaves in the office space
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By access to a trading API, learn R or Python (NumPy), and set up a poor man's hedge fund making automated algorithmic trades.
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>>1067743
All major broker apis are in C# tho. Python is for the kids at Quantopian.
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>>1067757
Then by all means use C# for your end of the API. It doesn't stop you from using R or other languages to do your data processing.

Maybe C# is better at stats and shit than I realize, but I have a feeling that it's what the APIs work with because it's super easy to write an interface for.
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>>1067773
Not only it's easier to code for but it also removes the burden to write your model again like you will with R/Py (due to speed, security, corporate inertia, yada, yada).
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>>1066843
Java is the most used language in the industry. But saying "coding" is like saying you want to learn "cooking". You're going to have to be more specific with what you want to create
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>>1067826
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>>1067757
>>1067809
But it's not though.

Python is among the most used, C# is good but it's pretty much a meme
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>>1067842
C# is pretty based, m8. But like I said a few posts up, it wouldn't have been my go-to for numerical processing.

Still, you can use C# to communicate with the API, and R to do the actual work.
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>>1067846
I didn't say Java was the best, I said it was the most widely used.

I don't really like Java that much. I prefer Scala, functional programming is king. >>1067846
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>>1067842
Most used on what? The only place where it's most used it's in numerical processing and scientific computing, and even those it's used as a scaffolding language, real meat is done to the metal with C++ and C.

And how can C# be a meme if all bb and most of boutique investment shops are using it for their trading platform?
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>>1067890
>And how can C# be a meme if all bb and most of boutique investment shops are using it for their trading platform?

Why wouldn't they just use a native language then?

Makes no sense for speed and efficiency.
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>>1067897
Quants, Clearing and processing of transactions and all of the mission critical stuff is on C/C++. Everything else is C#. Though GS has its own shitty language that gets people mad.
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>>1067914
I guess it makes sense.

C# is actually quite nice to use after using C++ for a while. I just dislike some of it and the forced "le OOP" meme.
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>ctrl+F PHP
>0 results

The guy asked what language he can learn quickly and start making some money soon, and you dweebs do is harp on about C# and numerical fucking processing.

PHP is pretty easy.

Most of the web runs on it.

There are, at this moment, over 50k open PHP projects across the major freelance platforms.

>Craigslist

Don't be retarded.

Sign up for Upwork or Freelancer when you're ready.
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>>1067939
>unironically suggesting PHP

l m a o.

Use Ruby, Python or even fucking Elixir or Node.js but PLEASE NO PHP

Too much curry-written vulnerable code on the internet already
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>>1067939

I should give source I guess.

I'm an engineering major but never worked a 9 to 5 in my life.

Started freelancing in web development 4 years ago.

Full stack, I charge $40-$50 per hour depending on the job and client.

There is more work than I can handle at this point.

Two ongoing jobs, one is currently at $9000 and the other at $3000. Last summer I did a job worth over $20000.

Also do smaller jobs. Have been paid in company stocks/ownership on 3 occasions.

Happy to discuss details if anybody's seriously interested.
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>>1067943

see >>1067949

There are plenty of clients who despise the Indian/Pakistani imbeciles with their broken English and crummy code.
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>>1067949
>>1067954
PHP is too easy to write vulnerable shitcode in though.

I'm not a big web-development guy though.

Using Rails or Django/flask seems a lot better although maybe the jobs are slightly less plentiful.

Do give more details though. Do you just write in PHP or do you a framework generally?

How did you get started and what was your start like in terms of pay and work? What websites do you use for freelancing?
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>>1067925
It can be pretty ancient and a pain in the ass sometimes but it has a nice community.
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>>1067968

Ruby and Python are great, no doubt. I have grown accustomed to the PHP way of things.

I started at $15/hour with very little experience and learned on the job. I'm sure I wrote some meh code back then, although I had a decent programming background from uni.

I now mostly use the Laravel framework. Used Codeigniter before, also Zend a few times.

I started because I live in a shit Balkan country where pretty much all regular work is shit, so after uni I became completely disappointed with the system.

I work only on Upwork now, have tried 3 or 4 sites and found my home there.

Pic related is current status.
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Testicles
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>>1067978
Nice senpai.

>I work only on Upwork now, have tried 3 or 4 sites and found my home there.
I have considered doing this since apparently retarded people way overpay for copy-pasted code.

How do you get started on one of these freelance sites? I reckon they wouldn't want some freshly created account with no past jobs right?

Couldn't you in theory just make a few websites for morons or whatever and then re-use the code and fill in what they need? Seems ridiculously easy and lucrative.
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>>1067983

>How do you get started on one of these freelance sites?

It's tough to get a start. What I did was take a few small fixed-price jobs to get my feedback score up, and then started bidding for bigger and bigger things.

>Couldn't you in theory just make a few websites for morons or whatever and then re-use the code and fill in what they need?

I've done this but desu now I'm bored with generic sites, I now only take projects that require some degree of creativity.

But it's ridiculous how much people don't know about what they're paying for. Last year comes to mind. I charged a guy $500 for "database structure, framework setup and user accounts". Which sounds like real work, but what I did was type a few lines into the command line to set up Laravel, then import a basic database structure for users, logins, etc and finally the controllers and login forms and shit. Literally took 2 hours.

Then again, sometimes they ask you to do something that requires 2 weeks of work as if it's a click of the button for you.
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>>1067988
>It's tough to get a start. What I did was take a few small fixed-price jobs to get my feedback score up, and then started bidding for bigger and bigger things.

How information-intensive does your profile need to be?

Don't really wish to post all my information and a picture of my ugly face just to get any jobs so they don't think I'm a scammer or something.

Also how do you get paid?

But yeah I was looking at some jobs and they're beyond retarded lmao.

$50-100 to set up LAMP stack i saw a few times...
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>>1066843
You are going to need to know just about every single language. And then you are going to have to focus on a few.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkXzlkOWLE0
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>>1067990

I think having your face up there is pretty much a must. Although you might as well put somebody else's face up, nobody's gonna question you about that lol.

I got my full name up too, and country. I think you can choose to just have your first name though.

You can get paid through Skrill or PayPal.

>But yeah I was looking at some jobs and they're beyond retarded lmao.

I shit you not, I once charged $50 for "urgent! solve critical bug" which was really them using some antiquated method in PHP, all I did was go in and replace a single line of code.
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>>1067996
Cool I'll try it out soon senpai.
Seems like easy quick money if you just spend a couple hours a day doing some easy-shit job.

Some of the job postings are completely ridiculous on the otherhand...

Some fucking Indian guy wanted someone to write FUD javascript malware for $500 LOL.
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>>1068000

There's some crazy shit out there. People have asked me to hack their competition's websites, crack emails and facebook accounts, you name it.

Anyway, good luck bro.
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>>1067051
Last time I gave out my idea to /g/ some dickhead local started doing exactly what I said down to the finest details not even a month later.

He actually did it better since he was hiring people to do the work face-to-face instead of through email.

His craigslist line was "BUSINESS IS BOOMING, WE CANT KEEP UP"

Turd.
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>>1067939
Can confirm. My very first PHP project after Hello, World was a niche version of fmylife that generated 10k uniques weekly. PHP no framework. Also maybe a little broken jQuery I copied and pasted to stack overflow until someone got annoyed enough to do it for me.
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>>1067083
>but ancient languages e.g. cobol, fortran, ada, etc. would pay better if you have the patience to deal with maintaining code written in the early 80's and bandaid-patched since.

That sounds worse than hell. If anyone is making some $$$ doing that than they deserve every cent.

>>1067199
Just like the client is too cheap to get a real company to do it, your resume would be (presumably) too light to work for these companies, so you both accept less and simultaneously create a new market below the big wigs with a bit of what >>1067212
said.

>>1067721
>the latter for a stoner startup with microwaves in the office space
Where can I send my hemp paper printed resume?
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>>1068487
>That sounds worse than hell. If anyone is making some $$$ doing that than they deserve every cent.
For Cobol, yes.
Ada and even Fortran are being actively developed and are quite fun to work with.
The newest Ada standard is from 2012.

Another language where every cent you earn goes to your therapist: ABAP/SAP. Thats an absolutely horrible language in an even worse environment.
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>>1067083
>but ancient languages e.g. cobol, fortran, ada, etc. would pay better if you have the patience to deal with maintaining code written in the early 80's and bandaid-patched since
Boy are you in for a shock if you think only old languages have bandaid patched code. If bandaid patching bothers you like it bothers me, start looking for another job the first time you see something wrong and aren't allowed to fix it. You'll save yourself a lot of frustration and more than a few "doesn't fit in" (or equally gobbledy-gook reasons) pink slips.
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>>1067846
But I don't trust Microsoft.
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>>1067939
PHP is the McDonald's of programming language. It will satisfy hunger but avoid at all cost.
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>>1068934
>PHP is the McDonald's of programming language

Yes, it's massively successful and everyone buys it.
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I manage a team of contract developers. What I pay:
UI dev lead (HTML5, CSS/Less/Sass, Angular JS, React JS, REST), adaptive across Desktop/Tablet/Mobile = $1700
UI dev (rank and file) = $1000
Services (Java, SOAP>REST) = $1000
Test (automated and human) = $1000
Data Warehouse & Architecture = $2000

May 2016 dev budget is $1.4m for the 1 project (I manage many others)

Aside from dev language, get up to speed with agile practices, task estimation, documentation etc

Be excellent
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>>1068930
>But I don't trust Microsoft.

Why not?

They're making the .NET framework more and more opensource on github.

They're actively working on mono and fixing bugs.
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>>1069069

Talk to me about a project you did, I want to know more about how you manage that team.
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>>1070084
Epic and Story creation, gets split down into task tickets in JIRA. Groom each ticket with your entire dev team, and assign tasks to each. Do this 2-3 sessions. Get task estimates from the team, and use those (when all are agreed on the estimate) to determine which stories/tickets fit into a Sprint (max 2 weeks for me, but some projects have seen Speints of 4-5 weeks). Get to work, and have short stand ups daily. The responsibility is on each dev/pair to remove blockers, and for the team stand ups to get a sense of overall velocity (not an excuse for delaying action, or general back sliding). Facilitate. A lot. Be available, and encourage dialogue at all levels to keep things running at a good rate.

Hold a showcase at end of Sprint to approve/decline deliverables. Be strict. You're the customer. If it's shit, send it back to the backlog, and take the dev aside later, and get him to explain what happened and how it's going to be resolved.
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Don't worry about any web design and development. Unless you can get a job running a website for a company, but even now there are places that are dumping that job on network admins and such

Fuckin reasons why.

1) All the damn freelancers, take a look at fiverr or google search
2) Places that offer free to cheap web hosting with drag and drop interfface for designing a website
3) A lot of companies that do web design/dev
4) Small businesses will make a facebook page instead of having a website made for them
5) That kid/mid age guy/girl down the street that don't know shit about computers but acts like they are a guru (the one that your gramdma/mom talks about) will do it cheaper and crappier by using a premade CMS and a free theme

Only reason you want to get into A) Web design/dev or B) Programming is to try to get a job at a company or just for yourself to build a company that isn't related to selling something or offering it as a service/freelace

Question! Why are there a lot of people that are going in for game design, programming, graphic design, web design/dev, 3d modeling when they don't know shit, even the basics of a computer and how they work?
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>>1070477

>I couldn't make it so nobody should even try
>competing with amateurs down the street
>doing literally anything on fiverr

Don't blame your failures on the world.

To see where I'm coming from, see my previous posts in this thread.
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>>1070477

Are you being serious?
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>>1066843
do you mean side money as in summer jobs or just part time work...

I'd forget about apps - sure some apps make millions... most make naff all - use some soft skills in the real world to generate some actual cash using just basic skills:

if you want a quick way to get money over a summer just learn VBA... seriously - become a VBA/Excel whiz - so many companies are reliant on various spreadsheets - you'll easily find work just calling around local firms, talking to the right people... you might be less technical than the majority of app developers but you'll also make much more money than most of them

if you're talking about side projects - the quickest way would be to learn some basic web development - again I'd look at local businesses that want a new or updated website... forget about chasing the affiliate marketing stuff or trying to build your own website - the majority of people chasing that stuff, like the typical app developer, make fuck all. Use soft skills, get actual real paying clients - not the sort who'd think about trying to get it done remotely in India.


Lastly if you mean to make a full-time career from coding then you'll need a different approach - learn one of Java,C++,Python, C#... get a github account, contribute to open source projects, make a few programs yourself and publish... send out your CV
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>>1070543
thanks for the insight.
do you have any resources you suggest for learning VBA/excel?
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>>1070543

>you will make more money doing Excel work that literally anybody can do than app developers

lol what
>>
I tried pretty hard to get a good coding gig, learned Rails, JavaScript, React, etc. and no one gave me an interview. I was a pretty good coder too, had a decent git portfolio, solved every problem in Eloquent JavaScript (a really hard task), did a major in mathematics, and did this stuff for about a year. I pretty much gave up and focused on networking to get business-oriented jobs and it was much, much easier and i make similar money. Basically, don't believe the memes and network like crazy.
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Coding is shite you literally have to compete with autists who code 16 hours a day for FUN
>>
I can't imagine a fate worst than being a programmer and competing with retards and autists and literally anyone who can teach themselves this shit with almost no limit to access.
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>>1071206
People don't teach themselves this stuff. They dismiss it as difficult and fuck off.

There is a reason an entry level wordpress farm worker makes as much as a nurse and a senior level SQL dev makes 85 an hour.
>>
There are a lot of misconceptions about tech in this thread.

No idea how, are pajeets literally trying to turn everyone away from tech so they can drag down the industry?
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>>1071573
Can you imagine being indian? They have to get degrees to program and it's so supersaturated over there that they get paid so little.

Go look at any freelance website and indians are seriously working for 3 dollars an hour.

Over here in the USA no degree needed, just a portfolio and a promise that you won't poop in the streets.
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>>1071580
>Go look at any freelance website and indians are seriously working for 3 dollars an hour.
The ones I use the indians are getting outbid by some chinks tbqh.
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>>1071127
>for FUN

Any other reason will render you a code monkey.
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>>1067743
>>1067842
interactive brokers uses python

does anyone have a good tutorial? i want to use basic algos in about 6 months. i've only coded in fortran and similar things
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>>1071669
Check on Codeacademy.com. Once you get a feel for the syntax, which is beautiful and easy, it's pretty basic. There's a module for everything.

You'd want to learn classes and objects if you haven't before, not that they're the bees knees but they're handy and people expect it.

There is also serious numerical support. I've pretty much replaced Matlab with Python. Look at Anaconda which packages an IDE, iPython stuff and the usual numerical and plotting modules.
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>>1066843
Python or C#
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>>1071127
>>1071206
You fine gentlemen vastly overestimate the skill level of the _average_ programmer out there.
Thats because the media never reports about them. I mean, whats the story about some guy who learned how to program in college, found it mildly amousing and continued to do it rather successfully from 9 to 5 for the rest of his life.
Thats not a story the media want. And yet that is the majority of the people currently working in the CS field.

And then you have the real fuckups, particularly in the Enterprse environment. The term "enterprise grade" with regards to software quality has become infamous for meaning the exact opposite.

For a good laugh, check out /g/s 'Enterprise FizzBuzz' which is scarily close to what you will find out there in the wild.
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I just pay a bunch of shitskins to code.
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>>1066843
databasing makes good money with lots of freelance opportunities, the trick is to get an extensive degree in your chosen field.

This field will stay domestically relevant because employers will often want clear communication with the person developing and maintaining their data storage.

Cybersecurity is another great field and is dominated more by certifications and military clearance. This service will stay relevant within the united states because of the need for employee background checks. The military is actively looking to recruit for this, which means you can get some awesome certs, clearances and guaranteed interviews that will positively affect your career to come for what becomes a very small time investment- comparative to the reward.
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i'm so confused. half of you are saying it's a lucrative field and the other half are saying to stay out because its oversaturated/too competitive. who's right?
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>>1072052
They have been saying its oversaturared ever since the bubble burst in 2001.
It is both true and wrong.

Yes, there is a glut of wannabe coder who only know HTML/PHP and some Javascript and who will only stare blankly at you if you even mention computer archtecture, data structures or runtime behaviour of algorithms.
But there is and there always will be a huge need for really competent software engineers, who know their trade, who can think logically and analytically, be able to decompose a huge problem into smaller parts and get a computer to solve those.

Take a medicine analogy: You will never find any work as a self-taught brain surgeon who can barely tell a scalpel from a butchers knife, but that does not mean that there is no need, on the contrary.
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>>1072065
This hits the nail on the head. Anyone with access to a computer (everyone on this board) can become a code monkey, and due to cognitive biases many can think they're good. Many think those people that get a degree or other formal training are dummies cause they can hack out code.

Which is all well and good when they're coding turns to run on an i7 with 8GB of RAM, but with real world constraints like memory, speed and also economic constraints they suddenly become uneconomical and worthless. So there is a massive range of salaries for people in the 'programming' world. Some people don't mind the code monkeys to hack out their shitty site for their shitty business. How many sites do you go on that just don't work? That are totally fucked?

Amazon and Youtube can't have those faults because it means waste, so they hire the real deal.

It's possible for a nobody with his computer and no formal training to be as good as anyone, of course. As long as they put in the hard work and don't lie to themselves. Everything they need is free to download, from all the relevant software to all the relevant guides for pretty much every programming language in existence. So in that sense it's lucrative, but people can't expect to do it easily.
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>>1072072
>turns = turds

Turds. I meant to say turds, which is what most people are pretending is software these days.

Like anon said, at the minimum you need to know your data structures, algorithm analysis, machine language at least to not be a monkey.
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>>1066843
You need to have a fucking cause if you want to make money doing that.
Refering to this; >>1066862
If your motive is money, you will not come that far.
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>>1071077
how much does the average app make on the iphone or google app store?

you're talking less than minimum wage for the majoirty of people - sure some people make $$$$ but chances that someone who doesn't even code yet is going to make much money from it are not good. Excel/VBA skills are a very quick way to get a skill set that is directly useful in the real world and can earn you money in a summer job
>>
>>1070647
yup - any books by Walkenbach:

http://spreadsheetpage.com/
>>
>>1072151
Nice page, if he really started with VisioCalc then he is a real veteran.
>>
>>1066843
well you could try basic javascript, php and html for some website stuff
>>
>>1067083
The previous poster mentioned javascript / node.js, which is a serverside stack. It's certainly easier in a lot of regards than C application development, but it's not really "web design meme" tier. There are lots of challenging things you can do with the stack - including application development on nw.js.

OTOH everyone should learn C
>>
>>1069043

Might be a stupid question, but what kind of engineering did you study?
>>
Bumping because its one of the few non-shit thread on /biz/
>>
>>1066862
uwot
>>1067051
After a while you get really comfortable with it and just make a lot of websites really fast and pretty easily as well with a very good design (better than most sites out there). There is definitely a market for this.

>>1067083
First paragraph sums it up pretty well

>>1067389
> fundamentals of programming in python
That language still confuses me everything is a def and forced indenting. But yeh if you put in some time and effort ( there are plenty of lengthy CS 101 courses online ) you would rapidly learn another programming language as most are quite similar.
>>1067842
Is it? I can hardly find any job offers on IT that list python as a prefered / required skill.
>>
>>1070477
> 1) expecting freelancers to make a non trivial website for you for only 5 bucks
> 2) will make site look generic and bland, not something you want to associate your company with
> 3) there are a lot of supermarkets, does that make owning a supermarket not viable?
> 4) this is one of the most terrible things to do as company to reach out a crowd. You don't want a facebook page that still has ''merry christmass'' on it when its june already because no one uses it (I've seen this with a lot of companies sadly).
> 5) ???????????

There is a lot of demand for just people with a Bsc in CS, at least in my country (Netherlands). Also I heard there were plenty of reports about shortages in UK.

>>1072072
A degree is really something that you would want to have if you want to do anything with coding.

But you aren't going to become a ''self taught'' engineer either.
>>
>>1067314
what does your bot do?
>>
>>1076157

sucks virtual dick 10g a pop
>>
>>1076157
seconding this, it sounds interesting.
It cannot be HFT I guess since the people who spend millions on custom hardware would have you beat I guess.
>>
>>1067939
>>1067978

You ain't lying.

https://www.upwork.com/o/jobs/browse/c/web-mobile-software-dev/sc/web-development/?sort=client_total_charge%2Bdesc

PHP + Java are at the top.
>>
>>1066862
Bingo.

Cat's out of the bag - classes and degrees are free with a library card. Udemy, Treehouse, Codeacademy, etc etc
>>
>>1077116
just check out Fiverr.
>>
>>1077108

oops nvm, most of those results are ancient.
>>
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>>1076034
Learning Python was the easiest thing I've ever done. The indentation rule should be mandatory for everything, not even just coding, just everything.
>>
Ruby is actually decent language and through Rails it gives you access to a lot of web-dev jobs. This statement will of course upset all the javascript kids who came in just 5 years too early and learned to do in a month what Rails can do in a weekend.

Aside from that I guess Java is the most widely used "real" programming language.
>>
>>1067314
>>1067314
can you give us a general idea of what your bot does?
>>
bump for more
>>
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>>1077128
Kill yourself.
>>
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>>1078760
Someone misplaced a curly bracket when they got out of bed this morning...
>>
>>1077128
>when you finally made a program with python

Such is the baller life.
>>
What you plebs don't understand is that coding is simply a means to an end, good luck getting a job as a "programmer" if you don't know algorithms and data structures.
>>
programming is an entry level job. Even at a senior position you are considered as a 'cost'. Learn something useful.
>>
>>1079051
True starting with a certain level. Underneath that, as long as you know even one programming language a little bit, you outclass 90% of your peers.

>>1079081
Only when the management of the company sucks.
Decent manager realize that IT is the key to reducing costs by increasing efficiancy (in the case of companies whose main business is not software), or even a profit center (for sofware companies).
>>
I'm learning Java right now.
Is it good enough or should I learn new languages? If so, how can I learn them online? Because everyone here teaches Java and nothing else...
>>
>>1079144
It is good enough to land you a job until your retirement. Java and its ecosystem is incredibly vast.
Screw this, Java's ecosystem (Compiler, JVM, Frameworks, Libraries...) are incredibly vast and Java (the language itself) is tiny compared to that.

Unfortunately esp. Java the language is utter crap and a pain to write in. It has many flaws, is slow, not very expressive, unnecessarily restraining and will hide too many important details about the machine the code is running on from you (some argue that this is a feature).

Nonetheless especially if you gain an in-depth knowledge of Java (something many $5 Pakis lack), and even more so if you know more than one language that runs on the JVM, you will never go hungry.
>>
>>1079081

>Learn something useful.

What would that be?
>>
>>1079158
knowing this board, probably shitcoin pump&dumper.
>>
>>1066843

The correct answer is Java.
>>
>>1079144

Since most business applications these days are web based, you should also be familiar with HTML, CSS, and Javascript. HTML and CSS are pretty trivial to learn and js is easy enough if you know java.
>>
Do work that need to be optimized to work fast and efficiently. Like shit you need to actually think and understand how everything connects.

This is how you avoid being replaced by an Indian
>>
Lua... hahahahaa

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dunamisoft.threehundred
>>
Python is nice, but Django sucks.
PHP is the best for Web APP.
>>
It really is hard finding quality programmers. A big proportion of them at just follow what was already done. They don't put any thought into if what was done already was horrible.

Coworkers that are 6-7 years senior need to have their hand helped on ANY new code that isn't the same. Even if it is better way of doing things they will forget what you did and go back to their shit way.

>26
>Senior Software Engineer (C# Rest Angular)
>94k base + 10% bonus eoy
>Indianapolis area
>>
>>1067897
>native language
>recommends python
lolwut python is interpreted, not "native". There's not even a notion of native languages on a computer, only on a mobile device. Interpreted languages are much slower than than compiled ones like c#. Get educated.
>>
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>coding language
>>
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>>1071540
>wordpress

This is the only guy who gets it. Just learn WordPress, which requires virtually knowledge of programming. You can make little money here and there by making little websites for local mom-and-pop's. Most of which only need a few pages. Once you have a base website set up you can literally "copy and paste" ever other job. You can charge set rates, by the amount of pages and scale up from there.

It's already so prevalent though, competition will be fierce.
>>
Gonna jump in this thread. How viable is it to become an "analytics programmer" without a stats degree? I already know basic OOP, algos, and computer architectures. I also have s background in physics so my math is decent. I want to get into analytics because that's what interests me

I know Java and R are widely used, but how do I start on the path? How do I actually start to get work in this field
>>
>>1079848
Do you have a graduate degree?
>>
I, like many code monkeys, spent all my time learning Java, Python, and C# with nothing to show for it because I had no experience.

Then I learned COBOL, the worst programming language known to man, and now I make $80k/yr performing minor tweaks to systems that have operated continuously for forty years
>>
>>1079651

And this
>>
>>1077116
I have never seen a online programming guide go into the more complex shit like search algorithms and different object oriented classes. Granted you dont exactley need them to publish some shitty flappy birds clone since they have librays for all that shit now. But if you want to actaully be good at programming you need to dig a little deeper then code academy.
>>
>>1079889
You can find information on all of this online, to be honest. You just have to dig deeper.
>>
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>>1079848
At minimum you will need a Masters in Mathematics (maybe PhD for Physics) and a minor in CS. These kind of people get to work with CS majors on a team. They can't complete programming wise with their counterpart (CS major Math minor), but they add SO much value to a programmer.

I have experience with this. A Master in Math helped me derive a simple Algorithm faster than I would have alone. The second he started writing the algorithm I was instantly able to finish it, understand it, and immediately know how to program it. He only knew the algorithm portion, but Math spergs are very valuable. Which is why you will find at least one Master/PhD level Math sperg in a tech team.

They have all the rules, laws, etc memorize. CS don't have them memorized, but will instantly recognize them once they become apparent, cause they have seen/programmed them at some point.
>>
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>>1077116
2013: Became member of local library.
2013 - 2015: Read a lot of books on coding, have the library printout to prove it.

Or even better,
2013 - 2015: Visited many sites on programming. Attached: browser history (ignore entries for 4chan.org).
>>
>>1071540
> ctrl+f
> "sql"
> this is the only post

God dammit /biz/ ..

OP, do you want to be a programmer or do you want to be a god?

Learn SQL
>>
>>1080177
Look, allow me to FUCKING elaborate ..

HEY /BIZ/ HOW'S IT GOING??!!
HOW ARE YOUR INVESTMENTS DOING??!!

Go ahead go and log in. Get back at me nigger.

Go check your checking and savings accounts. Go check your stocks. Go check the "appreciation metrics" you trainspot. That's fine. I watch mine too.

Oh shit while you're at it maybe it's a good time to make a few adjustments. Lemme know when you're done.

Ok you done? How was your experience? Clean? Crisp? Lotsa .. "rounded corners" on popup windows? Lotsa unique color displays?

DO YOU EVEN FUCKING REMEMBER WHAT THE GOD DAMN INTERFACE LOOKED LIKE??!!

No! No you didn't. You know what you worked with?

Facts.

***
Learn SQL, OP. Learn SQL so you can analyze and deliver facts.

Let some other faggot focus on the packaging that facts are delivered in.

C++ ... fucking morons .. sure, if you wanna hit your head on the god damn ceiling.
>>
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>>1080177
I've been using SQL lately because it's the most natural way to work with databases.

+1
>>
>>1079677
until you have to do anything useful, then have fun browsing through the reference to find out if you are supposed to call MySQLAPI.initalize(), MySQLAPI.initializeNowReallyWorks(), or mysql.obscurefix.initializeForRealThistimeItWorksGuysWeSwear().

>>1079697
C# isnt exactly compiled either. Its the same bytecode/JIT way like Java.

>>1079848
Define Background in Physics.
If its a degree and you did well you should be all set.
Might even have a slight advantage over Math mayors because physics is more grounded in reality than math.
I would not go for a stats degree at all. At best a math degree with a focus on stats and stochastics.

Java: well... COBOL of the 21th century really.
R: great to implement prototypes and working proof of concepts. Usually too slow for production code. Either reprogram the prototypes in C++ or Java, or use a language that has the expersiveness of R with the speed of Java: Haskell. It will also make you a better programmer overall even if you dont get to use it.

>>1079889
get CLSR as ebook and work through it (warning: will take around a year or more if you do all the problems).

>>1079917
nah:
2014: implemented ToyProject #1 (that actually does something useful using concepts #1-23 that were explained in book whatever) link to github: http://github.com/myproject
2015: started colaborating on WellKnownOpensourceProject #235 (using concepts #55-128 that were explained in various yt vids and books) submitted the following commits to the master branch: sha1-hash#1, sha1-hash#2...

Omit whats inside the parentheses, maybe elaborate a bit what your commits and projects do.

>>1080177
seconding this, actually if you work on any nontrivial application you will most probably use sql to store and retrieve data, if not you probably should.
Get familiar with the SQL standard itself and with 2 implementations of it, lets say one popular (mysql) and one good (PostgreSQL). Avoid access like the plague, toy around with SQLite if you want.
>>
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>>1080287
>nah:

Well I hope your right, but I got a degree anyway (pic related).
>>
>>1080287
I would argue that T-SQL is more popular than MySql simply because of the application and server support it comes with when you purchase it.

MySql isn't as popular in large enterprises.

PostgreSql is great to learn though. But holy shit man, fucking Oracle. Eeeesh. All the prepackaged stuff that we take advantage of with T-SQL is customizable but non-default.
>>
>>1080312
reminds me when Paul Erdös went cold turkey on Amphetamines for a month on a bet. Later he bemoaned that Mathematics had lost a month because of that and went right back to doing drugs.
>>
>>1079865
No, don't have a graduate degree. I only did 3 years of physics before switching disciplines.

>>1079899
Really, a master's in math or PhD? Keep in mind I just want to get into practical analytics, I don't want to be a data scientist
>>
>when people don't know python
>>
>>1081037
>Really, a master's in math or PhD? Keep in mind I just want to get into practical analytics, I don't want to be a data scientist
dont listen to >>1079899
PhD in Math is at best required for technical leadership position in High frequency trading boutiques, everyone 'below' that has only a normal degree.
Still if you like Math it does not hurt to get a PhD. And you will appear as a super genius to pretty much everyone, which might open some doors to employment or VC founding if you decide to start your own company.
>>
>>1079688
Man I get this. I've worked in so many places where that inability to think was actively enforced. Instead of hiring people with different backgrounds to gain the sum of their skills, they hire a narrower set of people and limit them all to the lowest common denominator. Like if somebody on the team can't subtract, everybody else has to add negative numbers (if they're lucky).
>>
>>1081501
>PhD in Math
>can't program
>High frequency trading
>everyone 'below' only a normal degree
In which of your mathematical dimensions is this true?
>M.A. Math = B.A. CS
>PhD Math = M.A. CS
>Math can't compete = PhD CS
As far as trading goes, just look at the top trading firms and the people who run it. This is the narrative. If you can't program, even a little, you are useless in an age of HFS, Computational Trading Algorithms, or with Reactionary Models.
>>
>>1081740
Think about it this way:
Teaching a CS graduate to understand the kind of math required for a HFT boutique: almost impossible.
Teaching a Math graduate tu understand the kind of CS required for a HFT boutique: pretty easy.

Most algorithm implementation arent exactly rocket science in terms of programming languages. What is difficult is understanding, or even worse, coming up with the algorithm in the first place.

And if the boutique uses a functional programming language such as OCaml, F# (surprisingly popular) or Haskell then the math graduates can be productive even faster.
>>
>>1081501
I interned at a hft and work at an analytics firm consulting hfts and basically everyone working on the actual algos is a phd. Hft is cutting edge machine learning software, you can't just pick it up and run with a bachelors or even masters
>>
>>1081740
This.

I plan on trying to get into a top 5 graduate school for CS. People from here that get a BS CS and work at HFT firms are earning ~70-90K starting and are getting positions easily.

I went to one of the companies' presentations and they were looking for 3.2GPA CS/CompE or 3.5GPA Math/Economics/Stats/other engineering fields just to apply.
>>
>>1081909
>70-90k starting for a hft job
Yeah, nah, they are getting ripped off.
You can get 100k+ starting for a "normal" Dev job in CA.
HFT is orders of magnitutes more stressfull and demanding.
Usually its 120-180k starting.
>>
>>1081909
>>1081919

speaking of HFT, I dug out this rather dated article, might be interesting for those looking to go into that direction.
A few commenters apparently have a background in HFT too and add interesting information.

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/07/31/003239/How-and-Why-Wall-Street-Programmers-Earn-Top-Salaries
>>
>>1081883
Not going to think about your opinion. It's not based on fact. Just Google any trading firm and get BTFO on the jobs page you sperg. The algorithms are already written.
>>
>>1081919
salary isn't very relevant in HFT

bonus is way more important
>>
>>1081883
it is tech skills that are generally pretty important for HFT, often what they're doing business wise isn't too complex, achieving the lowest latency in order to do it is where the complexity/edge comes in

though what you've said does apply to systematic trading in a more general sense - it is the maths guys that are valuable there

whereas in HFT it is the low level programmers and network/telecoms experts etc.. who can add value
>>
>>1083025
> The algorithms are already written.
Cutting edge technology must mean something else where you come from, Hillbilly.
>>
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>>1083125
It's a meme buzzword sperg.
>>
>>1084178
I dont frequent this board that often, so I dont know every dank meme you damn kids come up with.
Mostly on Lain chan these days because they are marginally less retarded than /g/.
>>
>>1080177

Do I need any prior programming knowledge to jump into SQL?
>>
>>1085061
It helps to understand the fundamentals of programming but honestly SQL is just as good of a "first language to learn" as say HTML or VBA.

With the added value that SQL actually pays decent and has never been deprecated
>>
>>1085061
>>1085219
SQL is not a programming language, it is a query language. Completely different things.
Same with HTML, not a programming language.
>>
>>1085244
you know the language your mom speaks? my dick
>>
>>1066843
>learn C ( Goat-tier language)

>pick any other language python etc
>have fun faggot
>>
>>1085244
> implying that dynamic object design and manipulation, job scheduling and maintenance, and alerts and notifications aren't handled by SQL

Or sure, you could run a simple SELECT statement

News flash though, management doesn't care about how pretty the website looks nearly as much as they care about making sure it's always available and always right.

Network, and data, are fundamentally more critical toward an enterprise than application development. Particularly as more and more BI tools like Splunk and Tableau, and as more and more CRM tools like Salesforce, accomplish what capable app developers accomplish at half the cost with twice the support and virtually no training time for new hires.
>>
>>1085061
>>1085219
>>1085244

SQL is actually a pretty good choice.
And yes, technically its not a programming language but that distinction is only relevant for ultraspergs.
SQL was originally developed so managers and other nontechnicians could query databases by themselves, basically the VBA of the 70s.
A tiny little bit knowledge on set theory will help you understand what happens under the hood but it is not really necessary.

Most important statements are SELECT(conditions), UPDATE and maybe INSERT.
Get the book Head first SQL which will give you an easy to understand introduction.
>>
>>1085392
>fell for the support meme
Having an e-mail address for Pajeet is not even remotely useful.
>>
>>1085879
Yes I'm sure your homegrown C# app is way better than Tableau
>>
>>1085719
> UPDATE

that's not how you spell MERGE
>>
>>1086358
It depends really, Tableau is comparatively mainstream, it cannot cover all niches.
This is why you will even today still see DOS programs being used at physicians offices, they just work and no one bothers to develop modern software for such a small market.
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