>>1039045 That's a horrible blog post from a very ideologically partisan individual who clearly lacks a good understanding of the Star Trek universe. They have an informal social currency based on a person's reputation.
Everything is "free" in the monetary sense, where people will give you what you ask for without charge because it makes them look good. However, if you're an asshole that abuses the system and demands a lot of stuff without contributing to society, people will dislike you and be less likely to give you stuff. People do their jobs in the Federation because it improves their reputation in the eyes of others. Similarly, if you invent some new and innovative warp drive design or whatever, people will honor you much like how we honor Steve Jobs or Thomas Edison today, and you will be granted social riches.
Basically the whole idea is that you can trade your reputation for material goods and services, and vice-versa.
>>1039430 Read diamond age. Or just look up molecular assembler.
It is one of critical technologies needed to take humanity to the next step... >molecular assembler >printable solar panels >printable water filtration >printable real time genetic manipulator >farming robots
>>1039035 It could work, but, first we would have to evolve as a species.
Humans respond to incentives. We respond to putting in effort and reaping the rewards. We respond to acquiring wealth to take care of our families and love ones. Nobody "taught" us these traits... we evolved this way.
If a system where everyone lives to better the species, we must first shed our biological predisposition to take care of our individual selves first.
Can this be attained? Perhaps in the distant future when/if our way of thinking and behaving change. But there are many examples of a such a system being attempted in contemporary times and failing. Soviet Union and East Germany are two that immediately come to mind ..
>>1039035 >tfw stuck in a local maximum because of capitalism >tfw quarterly earnings are more important than human progress >tfw we will never leave earth >tfw you will never explore the final frontier
>>1040099 It's almost as if that note should have a numerical value proportionate to the amount of reputation you have. Then people can directly store and trade these notes for goods and services...
The universe wouldn't work unless human nature changed. Even in post scarcity, people would want their own starship and human crew. Even the major human labor, say the doctor would be valued as some are better than others. There's only so many hours in the day or desire to work, so people would flock to the good doctor, limiting the time. Goods and services may be unlimited but not time.
One can argue many people in 1st world nations have very little scarcity and yet we still desire yachts and penthouses just because.
They actually explained this in Voyager, and it turns out they repurposed Holograms to mine dilithium. Holograms who are sapient with the capacity to be sentient. So yes, even in the far future with literal magic, socialism is built off of slavery.
Even in a post-scarcity economy there will still be certain limited commodities. There's only so much Mediterranean beachfront land, they're not making any new Picassos. There will always be people who have access to these and others who don't. A space-faring society of trillions might not suffer from the basic material needs that most people have today, but in that kind of scenario some of the things that are most valuable today will become even more sought after and harder to acquire.
>>1040099 Except people would then feel bad for you, increasing your reputation. Also, it would increase other people's reputation by helping you since you're the poor guy whose family and friends just died.
>>1040146 Except they literally don't care about hoarding things. In fact, accumulating tacky displays of wealth would probably hurt your social reputation, making you poorer.
>>1039045 i am fuming with anger this guy doesn't get anything, did he even watch star trek? dilithium is not an energy source, the crystals are necessary for warp drive. fusion reactors are the energy source there are more mistakes in this article but im too angry to type
If you watch Star Trek, there is no law preventing humans from acquiring currency. Their society just doesn't use it. Star Fleet doesn't pay their members because they do it for the love of science and exploring. The menial jobs are given to inexperienced enlisted and officers. It functions very much like the modern military. If someone who out ranks you tells you to do something, you do it or face the consequences.
Also the replicator technology is a semiclosed loop system. It recycles matter and you can assume the efficiency is very high. That means all waste (trash, feces, urine, dirt, hair, ect) is recycled back into usable products.
Dangerous tasks are given to holorgrams and robots.
Now there are certainly humans who have and seek out wealth in the star trek universe. Commerce is still a real thing, there is trade and commerce. The Ferengi are the most notable example of this. The federation itself has money and has been seen doing deals with the Ferengi.
So it Star Trek, there is clearly still some level of capitalism, it has just been made unnecessary and minimal.
>>1040263 >Except the arts and history are some of the most critical elements of the show. Every major character is obsessed with the arts and history. Picard collects artifacts. But none of those things are scarce material commodities. The artistic works can be endlessly repicated, and hey value those things because of their sentimental and cultural value.
Also Picard is an archaeologist: he doesn't keep those things for himself.
>>1040258 I'm pretty sure that cooperating with Star Fleet gives you access to more accurate replicators and other facilities. They are just communal.
Since there are leaders, there is necessarily a priority on their well-being.
Since there is an Academy and an order of rank, there is necessarily a class system, just one based on ability to contribute to Star Fleet rather than ability to buy things How did people who failed imperial examination in old China react? Despair, despondency, rebellion. I'd actually be pretty interested to read a fanfic that shows the federation falling apart due to inherent human ambition.
Some sort of "replicator", and access to whatever fuel it needs. A more realistic step to get a bit closer would probably be asteroid and planet mining. That'll get us a lot of resources at little cost.
>>1039451 >solar panels Get a load of this cave man.
>>1039700 >Durr We just need some more wars. When you have wars, they try to one-up each other, and that's when they release all the technology. Of course, people have to die, but that's the price for progress I guess. Feels good to live in an irrelevant country.
>>1039035 Of course not. Everything is free and everyone does what they want with their time, somehow. It's just silly magic and is totally unrelated to the real world just like their ability to fly around to different solar systems in a few hours. It's a fantasy like the fairy stories of old.
>>1040465 >Communism Hey, maybe it'll work this time!
>>1040469 >He doesn't know that the Alcubierre drive is a few optimization steps from being functional >He doesn't know that the military has secretly been working on FTL-travel (and anti-gravity devices, more notably) since they captured nazi documents and scientists in the 40s It is a fantasy, but based on possible (theoretically) technologies. That's what sci-fi is, fiction that seems scientifically sound. Most of it isn't at all of course, but it has to keep to some general concepts to not seem too silly.
Faster than light travel is theoretically possible. We just need to figure out how.
A replicated painting isn't the real thing though. You can get a near-identical copy of a painting made now, it doesn't mean it has the same value as the genuine article. Only so many people can file past the Mona Lisa in a day, in a society of trillions, all with equal material wealth, there will have to be some kind of capital which influences who lives where, what they have access to, how they're able to spend their time. Star Trek never does a particularly good job of fleshing out the implications of its post-capitalist economics, The Culture explores the idea better and probably comes closer to how that kind of civilisation could function.
>>1040446 >But none of those things are scarce material commodities. there's only so many Picassos out there.
>The artistic works can be endlessly replicated what's the value in something that's just a copy? Humanity without any sort of personal drive, if we just have everything on a silver platter, goes crazy. why replicate it when you can instead collect it the old fashioned way, the way your ancestors did it?
sure, i can just download a couple of MP3s from the internet, but it doesnt have the same kind of feel that buying an album, putting it in the player, and connecting with it has. it's an almost spiritual satisfaction of having acquired something and experienced it.
>and hey value those things because of their sentimental and cultural value. which is why they collect the real deals, and not just replicated forgeries. its the same as it is today. Sure, I can buy a replica van Gogh at the local bombay, and it looks nice, it's identical to the original, and cost me next to nothing... But it's still a fake. it wasnt hand painted by the artist and aged by the years. now if i was able to obtain an original van Gogh, now that would be an achievement. That would be something worth my satisfaction and appreciation of what it took to get, and what it is.
those types of connections and feelings with objects dont just go away if there's no money involved.
>>1041718 >Its exactly the same even on a Molecular level. yes. but it still isnt the original article. it has the exact same strokes of paint and weathered wood, but it wasnt made by a painter, it was copied by a machine.
you dont seem to understand the concept of emotional and spiritual attachment to stuff. I can download an MP3 of a Beatles song for identical, BETTER even, quality to the vinyl record. But it can't replace the experience of buying the record, taking it out of the package, playing it and enjoying the music.
name calling isn't an argument friend. As a previous anon said human nature will make this kind of society impossible. Petty human greed, competition and wanting to be better than others will eventually break down this kind of society.
it's still a fake, not origonal just a copy. People who collect historical pieces do so mostly for a connection with that period of time, knowing that this object was in x or y event is what gives it it's value.
>>1041732 It looks like you're wired to want the painting for its value though, and not for its beauty. A simple thought experiment would be if it troubles you to choose from two paintings of starry night, indiscernible from each other where one is the original and another is a copy.
>>1039463 Pretty much this. Startrek type of society is unattainable (currently) because people respond to incentives, and in the year 2016 the only real incentive is money. Everything else is bullshit.
Money by itself though is just toilet paper, its the ability to exchange it for scarce products that gives it any value at all. Theoretically if a cheap energy source can be discovered (e.g. antimatter reactors or something that can release a lot of collectable energy), post-scarcity and a StarTrek type of society can be achieved.
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