what do you lose from accepting that transgender people exist

Peace of mind.

>>663454732
Nothing, it's absolutely fine. I just wish they'd shut the fuck up about it.

>>663454732
No one is saying they don't exist.
99.9% of people just don't fucking care.
>OK, OK - you're crazy, we get it. Now STFU"

>>663454928
kek

>>663454975
this.

i never cared for faggots or tansgender, until they started their attention whoring. over the time i started hating them

>>663455212
people definitely argue against whether being transgender is real

>>663454975
This

>>663454975
a reasonable response on 4chan? dafuq

Nothing, im transgender myself but cant stand it when other transpeople try to rub it in everones face. In reallife I usually try to keep it secret until someone actually asks

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>>663454732
Your dignity.

You are legitimating the views of mentally ill people and reinforcing their beliefs, which is counter-productive to their recovery. Only a perverted soul would use these poor people as tools to push forward their political agendas.

Here's the thing.. Transgender between male/female dichotomy is provable with an MRI. It is biologically sound to have a defect/disorder where your brain's gender doesn't match your biological gender.

What I hate are the people who say gender is entirely socially constructed. My gf likes to point out that India has 3 distinctions for gender: m/f/multisex.

However, that only proves that they have a trichotomy instead of a dichotomy. That's a social thing. But whether or not gender is biological doesn't matter there. We understand as humans that multisex exists, so it doesn't even matter if we make separate distinctions or not.

It's biological.

>>663455605

This guy/girl gets it.

What are your feelings about the transtrender attention whores who identify as mayonnaise-gender?

>>663455826

if you lose your dignity because someone else does something that you dont like than you had no dignity in the first place.

>>663454732
morality

>>663455859
Its just sad, and gives the whole trans community a bad rep. I actually know someone, trans too, who wanted to commit suicide because he didnt want to be seen as a attention-whoring bitch. Some people just take this gender thing too far and forget that biological gender actually exists. Its just retarded and makes me angry and sad

>>663454732
what do we lose for not giving a fuck about 'em?

>>663456077

"Morality"... If ever there were a word so stripped of any and all meaning...

It seems to be roughly defined as "anything that makes me the slightest bit uncomfortable". Grow up.

>>663455355
Do people *think* they are transgender?
Sure, I bet. I know a guy that thinks a character from an anime loves him back 'for reals'.
Are they anything other than crazy?
Nope.

>>663455355
>663455355
They do as an opinion, they actually dont give a fuck live and let live. The problem is the trannies getting politicol about it with some bullshit ideas and privledges

Nothing. Im trans.

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>>663455935
Standing by while mentally ill people are being used as political pawns instead of trying to see to it that they get the help they need is evil. I don't care what most any of you say on that matter. There's a huge amount of people who develop severe depression after going through HRT/sex-operation and either live in misery or commit suicide. Because "corrigating" your gender turned out to not be such a good idea. What's even worse is how some of these people have been so young, fucking children man, and during a time when they weren't capable of understanding the full consequences of their actions, psychologists and doctors (as well as the media, politicians etc) have all failed them, all in the name of "tolerance".

>>663456229
The core of morality is recognizing reality and adhering to it. That is why lying is wrong - it is denying reality.
Crazy people who think they re something they are not are ill. People who say "well, sure, OK - that man is a woman" are denying reality. That is immoral.

>>663454732
Nothing, but their fight for special treatment disguised as acceptance is annoying.

As far as our best estimates go, transgender people are about .7% of the population. That's 7 out of every 1000 self identify as trans.

So, when they demand that everyone have to state their preferred pronouns or that they should be given greater visibility in media my response is "why?". There literally aren't enough of them to matter in society.

Of course they should not be persecuted. They have a legitimate mental condition that makes their brain disagree with their body. But they don't need a movement, and they should not get to dictate how the other 993 out of 1000 of us live in society.

>>663454732
Reality

>>663456180

Ugh. I feel for you and your friend. I had an argument about exactly this, the difference between genuine trans people and Tumblrina LOOKHOWUNIQUEIAM attention whores, and some otherwise-intelligent people jumped down my throat for expressing sympathy for genuine trans people getting taken for fakers.

Of course, since I'm not trans, my opinion doesn't count for shit. I wish you'd been there.

Trannies obviously exist.

They're also obviously mentally-ill attention seeksers.

The obvious solution is for mobs to form and beat them to death everywhere they're detected, until they knock it the fuck off.

>>663456339
Not to mention the enormous amount of perverts who don't really "feel like women", they just want to take their fetish to the extreme.

My God Complex and belief that I can deconstruct and analyze others' lives from my superior objective viewpoint.

>>663454732
Nobody is saying they don't exist, just that their delusions are not truthful.

>>663456247
Gender dysphoria is testable

>>663456383
Morals are subjective

>>663456409
I agree 100%

>>663456463
See first response

>>663456456
every opinion matters :)
I had a similar argument where some tumblrina bitch called me an asshole for not "showing that im trans" and called me transphobic. how the fuck should that even work?

Thanks btw, hes recovering and getting better every day

>>663456383

I have never encountered that definition in my entire life.

You also seem to fail to note that genuine trans people know perfectly well that they were born a certain sex; they just feel an overpowering need to become, to whatever extent possible, another. That is a well-documented physiological defect, so I am merely acknowledging thst reality.

Now, when you start getting into "gender-fluidity" and other such nonsense not rooted in any known biological fact, then we have a fucking problem.

>>663454732
A sense of reality

>>663456548
Did you hear about the 40something guy who went on TV and was fully supported by the liberal idiots on the talk show? Said he was a 6y/o girl. Was 'adopted' to a new family where that was acceptable and is teaching that family's kids that you can be a kid forever.

>>663456790
My friend is gender fluid and I have yet to figure out any way to rationalize it in my head

>>663454975
Maybe if they stopped getting fucking murdered and living in the hell we perpetuate for them they wouldn't be so vocal?

People are scared of having their gender identity questioned. Women feel like they are supposed to act dainty and shave their legs and be cute and lady like and men think they are supposed to be fucking testosteroned out bros that constantly have to respond to every situation as A MAN. This is why we can't have nice things.

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Your soul

>>663454732
sanity

>>663456640
>Morals are subjective
Yeah?
Well, I think what you said is evil.
I'll be by to murder you, your entire family, and burn down all your houses.
All my relatives will perjure themselves and provide an alibi.
If they get close I'll bribe the cops.
See how easy it is when morality is subjective?
>fookin' moron

>>663456941
Maybe if they shut the fuck up we wouldn't know and they wouldn't be persecuted.

>>663457043
Those are gender roles you fucking idiot. Your identity has nothing to do with roles.

>>663456640
>Gender dysphoria is testable
Sure.
So is psychosis.
So is schizophrenia.

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>>663456808
No, thankfully I seem to have missed that. Then again, I live in Europe, we have our own wackiness to deal with right now.

Like an unemployed, single mother of 3 (or whatever it was) who literally picked a man up from the streets to be their new step-dad: a gypsy half her age. Now they've been happily married in his homecountry and when interviewed in a local magazine, their working titles were "former bum/housewife". Unfortunately the article left out their current occupation, but I'd wager it's something along the lines of being a parasite or a leech.

>#yolo

>>663454732
his and her bathrooms.

>>663456640
>Dysphoria is testable.

This is the crux of it right here. It seems like anyone who is born with a body which does not agree with their brain would reconcile it the best way they could, by dressing and acting as close to the gender they identify with as possible.

It's why being "trans" isn't something that anyone but edgy tumblr kids seem to do. Because actual people with dysphoria are just men or women. I could be wrong about this but, isn't the goal to pass? To be seen as the thing you identify with, and not something in between?

Or is that horribly insensitive ?

>>663457096
"hey stop killing us"
"shut up i don't feel like hearing this because this doesn't affect me but if I had a sibling or friend that was murdered for being trans I'd probably suddenly care and do a fucking gofundme on my facebook" LOL!

>>663454732
what do I lose? Nothing
what do I gain? Nothing

>>663457095
If you're going to argue that morals can be objective, you'd best start with things that are almost universally accepted by all societies.

>>663456941
Can you show me where trans people are murdered in any greater proportion than anyone else?

>>663455826

http://www psychologicalscience org/index.php/news/releases/transgender-kids-show-consistent-gender-identity-across-measures.html

http://www psmag com/health-and-behavior/what-you-need-to-know-about-transgenderism-according-to-the-research

http://abcnews go com/Health/gender-identity-biological-study/story?id=29335854

kek

>>663457118
Yes but people see trans people acting a certain way. Like if someone with a beard who acts "mainly" says they are a woman it fucks with retard testosteroned out bros minds. and they get uncomfortable and just go into "yer a faggot" mode

>>663456885
theres no such thing.

remind him of that daily until he cuts the shit.

>>663457173
>to pass?
Nah its not the be all end all. Right now im trying to develop a pharmaceutical to increase vision in low lighting. Thats kind of my goal, im not leaving the lab much these days. I actually need a haircut.

>>663456790
>I have never encountered that definition in my entire life.
protip: your local library is chock full of books you can read for free
>You also seem to fail to note that genuine trans people know perfectly well that they were born a certain sex; they just feel an overpowering need to become, to whatever extent possible, another.
False; I understand that crazy people have crazy ideas. That is what makes them crazy. I have never said 'trans aren't for realz' I have said 'agreeing with lunatics is lunacy'
I have a cousin-by-marriage who is schizophrenic; when she doesn't take her meds she hears voices in her head.
Her illness is obviously largely chemical - a little bit of lithium and she's fine.
That is real.
AGREEING with her that angels are telling her to burn her baby? That's stupid and crazy!
Do a tiny fraction of people have a type of dysphoria that leads them to think they are something they are not?
Absolutely! Those poor people.
Agreeing with them, though, is wrong.

>>663457132
I already called it a disorder/defect. It might as well be like those conditions. I'm arguing the legitimacy of their position; not whether or not it has a negative existence.

>>663457173
You're right. Most trans people I meet try to fit the stereotype of the gender they want to be so they will be recognized as that gender. Your problem is with fake people who want attention.

They didn't even accept in divorce court that men have rights too and women obligations.

>>663457173
Its not, my ultimate goal is to be a passable girl. there are people who dont want to identify as any gender though.

>>663454732
You lose touch with reality.

>>663454732
Hope in human kind

>>663457279
No, that fucks with everyone, because it's outside a norm. Over 99% of humans conform to the standards for their gender. Men have beards, women dont. Women have breasts, men dont, etc.

Conforming to those norms is how we show others what we are. It's fine to say you identify as something but if you really "feel" like a woman why wouldn't you try to pass as best you can?

>>663457264
>psychology

>science

pick one

>>663457482
>agreeing with them is wrong

Because?

A state of mind

>>663457263
it's anectdotal ignore it

>>663457279
yeah that sounds more like a problem with people not interested in understanding what is wrong with the weird bearded lady

>>663457482
You can agree with a schizo that they are hearing voices and still help them you fucking idiot. Why are you so opinionated on this? Your pseudo-objective stance is just getting on my nerves

Should be the goal to hurt fragile closeted fags with jealousy they can't come out.

>>663457279
That's probably because he actually is a faggot.

>>663457212
I generally don't expect someone old enough to be on 4Chan and with enough education to spell ignorant of one of the core concepts of life AND incapable of reaching conclusions on their own.
Does your handler know you are on a PC?

>>663457697
not even him

youre quite the dull knife

>>663456339
http://www plosone org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0016885
post op suicide rate 4.1%

http://williamsinstitute law ucla edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
pre op suicide rate 41%

u so smort

>>663457823
Nice nonsensical run on sentence from someone criticizing others for their lack of education.

You bag of shit.

Only humanity.
Accepting diseased degeneracy is societal death.

>>663457693
good argument!!! got me there kek!!!!111

>>663457823
No, yeah, I'll agree that I fucked up there. I got up 30min ago but I guess that's no excuse. Deciding objectivity through subjective means is still subjective. I got it.

>>663458013
He is right though. But thanks for defending me, ig

>>663458094
Psychology isn't a real science in the sense that everything is testable.

Do you really not understand why it wouldn't be considered science to some people?

I see it as somewhere between science and sociology.

>>663457363
Your career doesn't have anything to do with your gender though. I'm not saying passing is necessary to be treated with respect, only that it seems like you would want to cleave as close as possible to what you feel you are inside.

This might be a poor example because it's just an anecdote, but I'm a cis guy and I've always been very traditionally masculine. Grew up riding horses and shooting guns and chopping wood to heat the family house in winter. Served in the navy. I'm good with a wrench. Short hair, beard, muscled, etc.

I guess that doesn't "make" me a man per se, but it's the kind of man I feel like I should be? Or something.

Congrats on the new drug though, good luck in the lab.

>>663458094
You realize you can't be taken seriously when you type like that right?

>>663458192
are you contending that psychologists make no /real/ contributions to our understanding of humans

also herp derp heres science that was included in those links
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150213112317.htm

researchers at Boston University School of Medicine conducted a review of the current studies. they concluded that the available data suggests there's a biological link to a persons gender identity, indicating that trans people are essentially assigned genders at birth that don't match their inherent, biologically set identity.

>>663457697
You buy a lot of lottery rickets, don't you?

>>663458214
You said "man I feel like I should be" which is what you should remember saying the next time a conversation about gender roles happens.

>>663458505
that's not what I said. are you saying that sociology makes no contributions to our understanding of humans? what are you even arguing?

>>663458507
you should at least answer the question. it seems like you're implying that they might destroy the world or something.

>>663457813
>You can agree with a schizo that they are hearing voices and still help them you fucking idiot. Why are you so opinionated on this? Your pseudo-objective stance is just getting on my nerves
You are pretty dim, aren't you?
Of course they hear voices - they're crazy.
Here's thing thing, though.
*Those voices aren't real*.
My cousin is not actually talking to angels. Discussing her illness?
Sure.
Demanding others accept that there really are angels really talking to her and really, in real life, telling her to burn her baby?
That's nuts.
Arew there trans people?
Yes.
Are some of them men convinced they are "really" women?
Sure. They're crazy.
Asking others to believe, actually believe, that they really are women?
Stupid. Crazy. Wrong.

>>663458013
The point
------------->
Your head

>>663458099
If I had known you just got up I would have tossed in a funny pic

>>663458717
Yeah after hitting post I recognized that I contradicted myself. Oh well, good thing it's anonymous.

Still though, isn't physicality part of that? Looking like a man, or woman? Being in between, or some third thing, just doesn't make sense to me.

>>663458214
>>663458717
I should also add that i meant that you can decide your own gender roles. if you go back a century ago, women were fighting to be main caretakers. And now they're fighting to be "freed from teh patriarchy holding us down!!"

>>663458766
I made that comparison because for a long time (I don't know the actual amount of time so sorry) we just threw all the psychos into a building and said "problem solved!"

I'm not arguing for you to accept them AND call them by what they want to be called. Just that you accept that they exist at all.

>>663458911
haha would've been much appreciative.

>>663458960
no worries anon

but there are multisex people. Not sure if you don't know what that is but if you do, just skip this next bit:

people born with genitals from both genders or something similar; ie having a male body overall but with a functional vagina or vice versa

physical appearance is important, but i mentioned earlier that you can test for dysphoria with an MRI scan of the brain. If all the trans people wanted to be taken seriously, they should all get their brains scanned to prove their dsyphoria.

>>663458854
Ignoring your shitty point to make fun of your grammar doesn't make it beyond me.

You are still a bag of shit.

my dick ----------> your mouth

>>663458717
>you should at least answer the question.
Really?
OK, here we go
1) Lying is wrong. It is a denial of reality. It causes people to be unable to determine what is real and what is false. Liars cannot be trusted.
2) Trans people are mentally ill. They think (if a man) that they are a woman or (if a woman) that they are a man. This is not true. Now, they are mentally ill because of this error.
3) People who are NOT crazy have no excuse to think that a man is a woman or a woman is a man.
4) Expecting people to believe men are women is silly. It isn't true. Demanding that the law or social customs treat women as men because they are crazy is stupid and wrong.

This isn't rocket surgery

Idk what's worse in this thread...the SJW or the try hard closeted faggots lol... I laugh hysterically every time I refresh the page

>>663459347
We're trying to talk about men with vaginas and women with penises, you garden variety faggots have to leave.

>>663454732
self respect

>>663459374
>rocket surgery
kek

but yeah, I keep saying that I agree with you on that they might be mentally ill. But for some reason you think I'm against you on that. And, I've also said that you can test dysphoria with an mri scan of the brain.

>>663459442
wait wait wait... you're not calling me the sjw are you? because I'm really not. I'm pretty conservative on most issues, but I'm genuinely curious about this subject.

>>663459347
Ooooh.
Someone is a bit touchy about their intelligence.
Hmmmm.
Let me make a guess about you.
Average school, average to juuuuust below average grades.
Told everyone you are "smart (maybe 'gifted' for the panache), but school was too easy, so you got bored" as an excuse for the grades.
Use lack of money, etc., as an excuse for why you never even applied for a top tier college.
Very quietly dropped out of college after a few low GPA semesters and now spend a lot of time skimming Wikipedia rather than reading primary sources.
.
How close am I?

>>663458505
>According to the researchers the article does have some limitations due to the small numbers of individuals studied and therefore conclusions should be drawn with caution. Safer recommends that further research focus on specific biologic mechanisms for gender identity.

I bet you skipped over that part because it's not good for your argument.

You also seemed to skip this part
>The researchers conducted a literature search and reviewed articles that showed positive biologic bases for gender identity.

"researchers" conducted a "literature search"

Well that's that then isn't it? Or maybe since this is essentially a tabloid article with no real citations we shouldn't be calling it science.

>>663459667
I keep repeating the same point because people keep asking me what my point is.
That's all.

>>663454732
your car keys?

>>663459838
You're right, sorry. Forgot that one wasn't actually to me like the others.

>>663459276
Intersections people are even more rare than people with dysphoria though. They also usually undergo some kind of SRS as babies so they grow up as either a man or woman physically.

Gender norms aren't necessarily bad either. Not fitting into them can get you the wrong kind (read dangerous kind) of attention.

Every time I see something about "Men don't cry" in the back of my head I go "Goddamn right we dont, not when we could be doing something about the situation".

Maybe it's anachronistic, but I feel like traditional femininity and masculinity are how we are meant to live, and the vast majority of humans find ways to fit in.

>>663459838
what is your point?

>>663459919
Intersex*

>>663457096

shut up and go back to kageshi

>>663454975
This

>>663454732
>Anon what do i loose by accepting and nurturing someones metal illnesses

Well shit OP i dont know, what do you get when you promote a group of people who have a suicide rate of around 40% because the delusion they believe in is unobtainable, and never truly will be, then get rejected from the rest of the world because they are fucking freaks.

>>663459667
No I just mean this thread in general seems like closeted faggots debating with SJW....if trans women were really women they wouldn't feel the need to even respond to faggots or identify as something other than a woman.. Just food for thought it all

>>663459726
Some of it sounds about right, except I never told anyone I was gifted. My teachers did. I then had to go to another school that was running a "gifted/talented" program. Turns out I qualify for mensa.

How about you?

Male / Female = Genders
Non binary demigod glowing sparkles trans black magical alien = Worst bullshit ever.

Because it is full of contradictions:

SJW's tell us:

1) Gender is a social construct.
2) You can be born in the wrong body.

These two are mutually incompatible.

Either you are born with an innate "psychological gender" or gender is something you adopt via social conditioning. You can't have both.

Second contradiction:

SJW's tell us: Gender roles (including appearance etc.) are constructs and therefore we should dispatch with such notions.

However, transgender individuals almost always adopt exaggerated gender stereotypes of the gender they believe they "really are".

Where are the male-to-female transgender women who are tomboys?


Almost every transgender person I have interacted with (and I live in a town with a clinic dealing with this, so they are everywhere here) - almost always behave in the way that a man assumes a woman would behave.

I believe if you were to do a blind study - asking the same questions to:

1 - women
2 - so called transgender "women"
3 - Straight normal men asked to to answer pretending to be women.

You would find that groups 2 and 3 would give similar answers and you'd find a distinct difference in the answers from group 1. Of course this last idea is pure assumption but I would bet everything I own on such a result.

>>663457096
actually the reason for their persecution began thousands of years ago in the middle of a desert when people decided their write down their mushroom trips and people took it literally, this also lead to many wars and the persecution of many other groups of people as well over arbitrary reasons.

>>663459976
okay now I feel bad for >>663459838

>>663459919
Yeah they usually get their parts sorted out before growing up. In most cases I'm sure it works out for the better, assuming they look at testosterone v estrogen levels.

and I only keep bringing up dysphoria and intersex because those are provable and tangible things you can look at to say "okay this person is like this, what can we do now?"

If you look at the study of John Money's look into whether or not gender is socially created (which it isn't) his "experiment" on the twin boys goes to shit. Just a follow up if you want to look into this more.

>>663460080
it is obtainable. Whether or not society accepts them as they are is another story. In your eyes they may never be "true women/men" but they would just want the surgery to become either or to be happy.

>>663460100
You're right. The thing is that trans people have a bad rap because of people who say they're a woman but don't actually want to be women.

>>663454732
My desire to live on this planet

>>663460421
Are... are you blaming the jews?

You should play outfield, you have the reach for it.

>>663460594
Jews lead to christianity so he's not wrong

>>663454732
Nothing just for fucks sake just stop shoving it down people's throats. Nobody cares, just when you start a relationship make sure to let them know people hate being lied to about that snd you should feel like shit if you guilt trip someone grossed out by that kind of thing.

>>663458717
i was just checking if thats what you were saying about psychology because people on here have made that argument.

so you were just describing why people would question it, not agreeing with them.

>>663456941
Name one Transgender person or even just a gay oerson you know who got murdered.
Shut the fuck up. Nobody is murdering transgender people.
And even if they were that just goes to show how fucking annoying you are. But I digress, nobody is going to throw away their own life and get put in jail to murder a transgender person. Thats how unimportant they are. Pretty much 99.99999% of the population could care less and are not going to go to jail just so they is one less cockroach out of the fucking millions of you. I hate when faggots say this shit because it really doesn't make sense. Fags hate straight people just as much as straight people hate them and they don't go around murdering us for the same reasons we don't go around murdering you. Now go suck a cock or something fuck boi.

>>663460398
That's actually a pretty good study idea.

Here's where I disagree though: you're letting sjw's speak for everyone.

At least in my experience, trans people just want to be the gender they think they were born into. sjw's just ruin everything for everyone.

I understand that they're the ones pushing policies, but the thread is about whether or not you can accept trans people.

>>663460792
Maybe he means emotionally murdered.

>>663459796
obviously its a new thing being studied and suggestion for further research means it needs to be solidified or supported further.

a lit review is common and means they examine all existing studies on a subject to make conclusions.

so on the basis of current scientific understanding, it is likely a biological thing.

fuck off saying Boston University Medical Center is a tabloid.
http://www bu edu/news/2015/02/13/review-article-provides-evidence-on-the-biological-nature-of-gender-identity/

heres the actual study if you want to pay for it
http://journals aace com/doi/abs/10.4158/EP14351.RA?journalCode=endp

>>663457530
First, you born with a gender. You die with the gender.
There's nothing you can do about.
Even if you pay to a doctor to mutilate your penis so he can make a vagina.

>>663460667
Can you show me where in the bible it talks about trans people?

>>663460941
HAHAHAHAHAHA. In that case his butthole is a better euphemism for being murdered than his feelings. Faggot.

>>663460379
I'm in Triple Nine.
My entry tests for military intelligence were what I used to qualify.
Met my wife at a meeting; our kids all qualify, too.

>>663460667
Implying the Cuntstains and Turbanworshipers are not jews...LEL pls I hope they all get wiped off the planet

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>>663455605
Do you feel that your insurance company should be forced to pay for your reassignment surgery?

>>663456941

That's their problem not mine.

>>663460398
I think there *was* an analysis like that done, back in the '70's.
Fuck, I should have paid more attention in class, but the girl next to me had DD's

Genders don't work like this.
There are 2.
If you feel diferent your gender doesn't change. The conception of what you think you are change.

>>663460792
http://www advocate com/transgender/2015/07/27/these-are-trans-women-killed-so-far-us-2015

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>>663459976
I like you

>>663454732
Respect for human decency

>>663461532
I think you mean biological sex.

Tumblr fat whales only want be special snowflakes.
>non binary?
>otherkin?
>Transculture?

The need to be an hero

>>663461238
I said sciencedaily was a tabloid not boston university, and I only said it for angrymaking.

>>663460725
Yeah, I mean I don't think everything about psychology is provable but I also don't think it's complete bullshit.

>>663460792
Anectdotal evidence isn't worth asking for. Also, if gay people murdered straight people, would that make you feel better or something?

There are people that are murdered over being gay or trans. The reason the stereotype exists that all gays are on the coasts of the US (if you live in the US) is because that is where the most progressive people live. If you look at crimes in the midwest, you'll find the cases where someone came out and was killed a while after. It's not unheard of.

Gay people make up maybe 3% of the US population (if I'm pushing it, I haven't looked at recent stats) and trans people make up about .1 or .2% (again, not up to date)

So if you think that 3.2% of the population being treated like outcasts in places they would have to have money to leave, money that they would have to earn by not coming out as what they are, it's no wonder that they would rather just come out because some idiot on the internet was like "im sure they'll accept you"

>>663461341
by proxy of people being born male wanting to be straight women, most christians will perceive that as being gay. same as vice versa.
it's not that they read it in the book, obviously nobody was changing genders back then, it's how they interpret it.

>>663461532
holy shit dude this whole thread has been talking about dysphoria, the dichotomy not being accurate in this context, and mental illness.

Also, you mean perception, not conception.

>>663461706
biological sex and gender have yet to be proven to be different, please look up john money and his experiment or take my word for it. Or I could tl;dr the study.

>>663461706
Can't tell if bait.
biological sex, aka genders. Is your fucking gender. If in your fairy magical different mind you feel diferent is a mental disorder and for that, total bullshit

>>663460667
The Jews are also responsible for the existence of muslims, had abraham been aborted then neither christianity nor islam would exist.

>>663461360
>Triple Nine
I guess that explains how you pretty much just sherlocked me. I bow in deference to you, sir.

>>663454732
Mental disorders.
So if a schizophreniac says that his inside people that tell them things are real. Do they are ? He feels and think they are.

>>663462627
religion is also a mental disorder

>>663462066
>>663462027
The APA disagrees with you.

Sex refers to a person’s biological status and is typically categorized as male, female, or intersex (i.e., atypical combinations of features that usually distinguish male from female). There are a number of indicators of biological sex, including sex chromosomes, gonads, internal reproductive organs, and external genitalia.

Gender refers to the attitudes, feelings, and behaviors that a given culture associates with a person’s biological sex. Behavior that is compatible with cultural expectations is referred to as gender-normative; behaviors that are viewed as incompatible with these expectations constitute gender non-conformity.

Gender identity refers to “one’s sense of oneself as male, female, or transgender” (American Psychological Association, 2006). When one’s gender identity and biological sex are not congruent, the individual may identify as transsexual or as another transgender category (cf.Gainor, 2000)

Gender expression refers to the “…way in which a person acts to communicate gender within a
given culture; for example, in terms of clothing, communication patterns and interests. A person’s gender expression may or may not be consistent with socially prescribed gender roles, and may or may not reflect his or her gender identity” (American Psychological Association, 2008, p. 28)

>>663462775
Of course

>>663462627
>do they are

this was already covered bucko

>>663462797
Dude I don't care what the APA says. Are you shitting me? Are you a fucking sheep? The APA almost said that being a pedophile was a valid form of sexual orientation and should be made legal. You fucking moron.

If you're going to look at what they say and not where they got that information from (IE JOHN MONEY) why are you even here. Anyone can look up what the "official stance on gender" is. Fuck you.

>>663462797
Keep it simple.
Genders = red, blue
When a sparkled sky blue with little spirals of red gender appears, you now is a mental disorder

>>663462979
And I don't care what copernicus says, the sun clearly revolves around the earth, damn those heliocentric sheeple

>>663463236
Seriously. Heliocentrism is provable. Gender roles are social constructs, gender is not socially constructed.

At least make a better analogy.

>>663463209
Leaving out intersex

>>663457263
It's not the fact they are killed more or less, it's that they get murdered/bullied for being trans, and that (imo) is stupid.

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trans people are gay and god hates gay people, burn in hell crossdressing fags.

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>>663454732
what do you lose from accepting that transgender people exist
My temper.

>>663462027
Anecdotal evidence isn't worth asking for? Maybe for you because if you actually needed evidence it would be a whole lot harder for you to make your argument wouldn't it?

okay sure a very incredibly small amount of gay people get murdered just like how a small amount of people get murdered for cutting someboudy off in traffic. Whats your point? Welcome to the real world bro.

Cool statisics friend. I don't care though. You didn't really make any sort of arguement you just told me gay people exist. Yeah I know gay people exist thankyou.

How are they treated like outcasts? How do you know that they are being treated this way? I have a professor right now who is gay as fuck. But he didn't show up the first day of class and whip his dick out and flop it on the table and starts screaming I'm a faggot!!! He had a great Job a the best university in my state and people don't raise their hand in the middle of class and tell him they wanna murder him or that they hate him. People respect him. He worked hard in life and is a smart person and he doesn't shove his gay agenda or gay dick up his students ass and we don't shove are straight agenda or our straight dicks up his ass. How can gay people not get jobs bro? Have you ever seen a question in a resume that asks "Are you a faggot or have you ever been a faggot? Have you ever been convicted of sucking dick?" I know I sure havn't. Last time I checked it was illegal to discriminate giring somebody based on thier sexuality. That law was passed because people support fags rights just like everybody elses.
Shut the fuck up with your little whining.

>>663462979
john moneys theory is that being shaped through your environment makes you a certain gender

how is this at all consistent with saying that sex and gender are not separate

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>>663463598
No they don't. Everyone is bullyed. Everyone becomes an hero.
THEY ARE NOT SPECIAL.

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>>663463598

I'm from a country where being trans is not an issue and they are accepted, the only people who think its a problem are people that like to play the victim role, same with feminists. just be who you are and stop being such a fucking drama queen about it nobody honestly cares, even if some crossdressing faggot walked past me and I laugh at him I wouldn't even remember him/her/it after 2 hours anymore, I care about one thing me. and so does everyone else.

>>663462979
>being a pedophile was a valid form of sexual orientation and should be made legal.

Just being a pedophile is legal. It's the fucking kids part that is illegal. That and CP.

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>>663463987

Hot moms make sissy sons, and macho men make butch daughters.

Your genitals are determined by only wether or not you have the SRY gene on the Y chromosome, but there are plenty of autosomal traits that when in a female helps increase her chances of mating with a man and other autosomal traits that help men find female mate.

Now what happens when a male receives autosomal genes that are beneficial for a women but does not inherit those that are beneficial towards a male as far as mating?

So if your son is a sissy, blame your hot trophy wife, if your daughter is a dyke, well then thats the championship lineman daddy's fault.

>>663462979
>>663464012
. The biosocial theory of gender role development

Money and Ehrhardt (1972) claim that children are gender neutral at birth. Development of gender identity and adherence to gender role is primarily a consequence of socialization.

The theory is based on case studies of individuals born with ambiguous genitals called intersex in medical literature. Money found children who had been born as females genetically but were raised as boys and thought of themselves as boys. Money theorized that humans are not born with a gender identity and therefore it is possible to reassign sex within the first two years of life.

The theory is supported by animal research. Female rat fetuses injected with testosterone tend to behave like male rats as adults. They do not exhibit normal female sexual behavior in adulthood even if they are injected with the female hormone estrogen at that time.


Case study
David Reimer was a twin boy who accidentally lost his penis under a routine circumcision, when he was 8 months. Dr. John Money suggested that the parents change the sex of the boy through surgery, hormone replacement and raise him as a girl. David Reimer was changed into a girl, Brenda.

Money used the identical twin as a matched control and believed that this case would support the biosocial theory. In Money's scientific articles the sex change seemed to be a success but he failed to publish evidence that went against his theory. Brenda (David) was not happy and felt different from the other girls.

At the age of 15 her parents revealed the truth. Brenda decided to become a male again and had reconstructive surgery to create a penis.

Evaluation: This case study seriously questions the biosocial theory that socialization can override biological make-up. In fact, it rather lends support to the theory of hormonal psychosexual differentiation.
I really don't see where youre trying to get by referencing this guy

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>>663464237

don't be ignorant, once upon a time treating a black man equally was illegal, same goes for gay marriage, we are slowly moving to a SJW world were fucking kids/animals or getting sex changes to become dolphins is all accepted.

>>663463987
I don't like using anectdotal because it isn't representative of anything.

as for their murders >>663463598

it's great that you have a teacher who came out. My gf has a friend who is transgender and her family hates her. But that isn't representative. What is representative are the accounts people put online saying "this is what happened to me"

>>663464012
because environment = society
if gender was a social construct, that kid would've been fine. But it isn't, and he wasn't. Do you see the problem.

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I lose everything

>>663464178
>I care about one thing me. and so does everyone else.

Why do you think everone else cares about you?

>>663464540
so youre saying because gender isn't a social construct, it is the same as biological sex?

>>663464926
John Money proposed that we should do away with gender/sex being the same, synonymous term. Personally, I found that his experiment/study did nothing to prove that they should have been. So, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

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>>663454732
facts

>>663464513
>don't be ignorant
Fuck you! I'll be as ignorant as I damn well please! You are not my real father! Stop telling me what to do!

>>663464926
Yes

Biology is fluidic like water, not rigid like stone.

Random changes and abnormalities occur, its like a shotgun approach to what possibilities can happen given whats available and what works out of it for what ever given environmental conditions.

>Honestly, nobody in the real world gives a fuck.

>Unless confronted by it NORMAL people don't even think about it!

>>663465229
so then how do people born with one sex have a different gender identity

>>663465451
this conversation already happened.

tl;dr: get an mri scan and prove it or accept it as a mental illness

>>663464540
No it's just sounds more to me like you don't like evidence that supports a dofferent viewpoint than yours.

Ever think that somebodys family could hate them for a different reason other than the fact that they are gay? My sister is a convicted felon, beat my mother and a liar and thief. My family hates her. Maybe your sisters friend is both transgender and an annoying whiny little fuck. I seriously doubt that her parents hate her based solely on her sexual preference.

As for my professor, thankyou for agreeing with me. I know plenty of gay people that I have both worked with and seen hold good jobs because they were good at them. I've also seen plenty of gay AND straight people be unable to hold down a job because they make poor life choices. Stop using your sexual preference as an excuse and step the fuck up in life.
I care just as much about your sexual preference as the next person but when you start whining and demanding special treatment I'm gonna treat you like shit because you deserve special treatment just as much as me or the next person.
You are not special. I am not special. Nobody is special so expect shit from people in life and expect it to be hard because thats the real world. Nobody cares about your problems not because we hate you but because we have our own problems to worry about. Your life reflects the choices you make and while you may not being able to control everything you do control a pretty god damn large portion so instead of making excuses for yourself and other faggots why don't you work hard and prove to society that you are important just like my professor did. Fuck off

Shemales are okay as long as they are blond, huge titted and got a feminine penis.

iq points mostly

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What if you just don't care that there are damaged people that don't identify with their sex?

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>>663465604
Holy shit. Rekt

>>663456339
As in the words of the late Dj Khaled, you smaht. You accreate

>>663465604
>mfw I'm not gay/trans

I'm not asking that they get special treatment. I was just saying that they get unfair treatment in certain households and areas in the US. But without being able to objectively prove that it is entirely about their sexual preference/ preferred gender, this conversation is hopeless.

I'm not trying to make excuses for these people. You should already know that gay people get barred from places because of their sexuality. It happens. It ends, but it happens. There are so many communities that don't care. That's what I'm arguing.

And I don't expect you to believe me when I say that it's entirely because she is trans, but that's the fact of the matter.

>>663465569
so they don't actually have a different gender, they just have gender dysphoria, which basically means they have the same characteristics of a different gender.

Why would we celebrate mental illnesses?

>>663466178
Well you shouldn't repeat that like it's fact. But that's the conclusion that the thread came to

>>663455355
the dispute is whether or not its a mental illness...which it is

>>663466405
i agree that dysphoria is a mental illness

i agree that gender isn't a social construct

i don't see how those two facts lead to the conclusion that gender and sex have to be one in the same.

does it not make sense that certain biological features determine whether you have a dick or not then other biological features determine whether you feel like a male or female?

gender dysphoria being a mental illness doesn't mean there can't be biological factors leading to the condition

>>663466303
people have been celebrating mental illness for millennia, they build temples, mosques, and churches to commemorate it.

>>663466079
No you arn't asking that in a blunt way but it's what is implied.

Yes it is very true that no matter which way you look at the situation it is objective and that is the exact point I am trying to make. You objectively think that gay/trans people are opressed and shrug off any evidence that suggests otherwise. On the other hand there and plenty of people who disagree with you and would gladly provide evidence to support otherwise. Never in my life have I once seen somebody get barred from a place for being gay. Never and until I see otherwise I won't believe it. Infact I'm willing to bet you've never seen a gay person get barred from a place for being gay either.

No it's not a "fact" of the matter. You know this person third hand and did not grow up with them to see how they interacted with thier family. Your opnion is subjective. And from all the gay people I have met and personally experienced almost all of them have good relationships with thier parents. But then again I tend to try to keep good people as company. Don't make excuses for your sisters friend. Even if you do, why are you so concerned about it? It's non of your fucking business anyways.

>>663467077
>gay people not allowed to get wedding cakes
>gay people not allowed to get married
>gay people not allowed in church after coming out

there are a lot of things like that. Not as recently, but I'm sure you can find some article archived about it happening before.

I guess I shouldn't care about her friend as much as I do, but you brought up anectdotal evidence, so I provided some.

The families you have met are nicer than my own or my gf's friend. And while it's true that I didn't grow up with her friend, I know her friend well enough. Or at least I'd like to hope so.

Whether or not you witness something doesn't mean that it makes it true or untrue. And I disregarded what evidence that proved gay people weren't being oppressed?

>>663466889
It's because they used to be the same word. That's all.

>>663455826
>dignity
>browses 4 chan
>posts on /b/

Kek

Sooooo... n e u gaiz homosex/??? wana traed dikk pix/?? ;)

>>663468634
Yeaa

>>663467742
>>663467742
>>663467742
They cake makers have a right to refuse service if their own personal beliefs do not support thier clients. Thats what freedom is. The faggots can stull get a cake from somewhere else
Gay people are allowed to get married...
Gay people not allowed in church. god doesn't exist anyways. They are better off. It would be pretty hypocritical for a gay person to go to church anyways but none the less you make a valid point. Yes there are some religious people who refuse to support gays. And thats okay. They arn't required to and they never will be in the same way that gay arn't required to support straight people. You could open up a cake shop or a gay church and refuse service to straight people. Thats freedom.

Yeah I thought it was interesting how you said you didn't like my anecdotal evidence and therefore said you don't like (any) anecdotal evidence and then tried to use your own to prove your point.

Sure you or I may not have seen it but it still happens extremly rarely. Ok. I'll admit to that. But you act like it's happens to all gay people 5 fucking times a day. It doesn't it is a mild inconvience at best.

As for your gf friend and thier family. Clearly everything you have heard is biased and anecdotal evidence......
Don't you have a cock to suck or something?

Because now that this acceptance bullshit occurs we have started catering to the mentally ill.

It basically goes against darwins theory if evolution.

Lastly, kids growing today are already pretty fucked up with normal parents i couldnt even imagine being adopted by se mentally ill trannies

>>663461564
Just for curiosity, as a percentage is it higher than heterosexual people?

27 in a year doesn't seem too much.

>>663468978
>>663468978
k mi dikk is heer
8=D
dats ful hard is big rite/???

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>>663454732
>what do you lose from accepting that transgender people exist

Heh-Heh-Heh um... my boner?
Heh-Heh-Heh Meh-Heh-Heh-Heh

>>663470003
i don't think so but i didn't do the math

>>663454732
MY DIGNITY AS A HUMAN BEING IS SHATTERED BY THE DEGENERACY OF SOME PEOPLE. THE ONLY WAY TO RESTABISH THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS IS BY BURNGING EVERYTHING!

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

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>>663469516
>They cake makers have a right to refuse service if their own personal beliefs do not support thier clients. Thats what freedom is. The *niggers* can stull get a cake from somewhere else

I lose my pride.

In truth, I have failed, I dropped out of high school. I live with my parents, I've never held a job for more than three months. I spend most of my time unemployed and, when I am employed, I spend my time at work blaming anybody who isn't a white man for all of my failures. I decry all progress in society as "moral decay" because the truth is that as the world moves forward I am getting left behind with my hatred for people who aren't like me. The truth is that I matter less and less to the people I spend all of my time hating, that cuts me to the bone. Increasingly I stand alone, surrounded by people who are dancing and laughing while I spew hatred at them, and you know what really hurts me the most?

Almost none of them care what I say.

There was a day that, by simple virtue of my lineage, I would have been a force, I was feared. People listened to me because I was a member fo the majority, now I am increasingly alone and my relevance has faded. Not due to actions taken by myself or the people like me, but through inaction, other people "them" they have done, they have accomplished, they have improved while I waited for everything to be given to me as it was my father and grandfather. I vote for my father and grandfather's party because they remember a day when it was just ours because it simply was, those days are gone. These freaks are a reminder of my own failure and my rapidly expanding irrelevance. That's why I hate them, there was a day when my inaction was enough, now I am expected to try.

By virtue of my birth I should not have to try.

>>663470978
Yes. They are racist or sexist. They have a right to be as long as it doesn't hurt somebody else. It's not illegal to be racist ir sexist. It's illegal to impede the rights of others. Not giving you cake is not impeding your rights.
Now on the other hand if you said that I had to respect your beliefs and practices in the same way I had to respect and believe in the practices of communists or Nazi's I bet you would then disagree. I have a right to support who I support and not support who I don't like. The world isn't your little safe space.

>>663454732
>what do you lose from accepting that transgender people exist

The reason that the queer agenda is being forced on people is so that it politically divides people and therefore it is easier for politicians to force through their policies into law. People are at each others throats about gay rights, immigrants, niggers, religion, you name it all these issues are blown up to exaggerated proportions so that the minority vote gets forced on the majority. Political correctness is not really a device to unite people it is a device by which the policy makers divide and rule

>>663471528

if they were doing it on the basis of race it'd be illegal. if on the basis of sexual orientation, it's not illegal yet, but there's a bill in the house & senate called the equality act

the federal civil rights act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law.

the right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the americans with disabilities act, which prohibits discrimination by private businesses based on disability.

the federal law does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation, so gays are not a protected group under the federal law. however, about 20 states, including new york and california, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination in public accommodations based on sexual orientation.

>>663472162
Yeah and your orginal arguement was all based on church related activities.
Seperation of church and state baby. Get used to it.
As for a resturant or anything else how is somebody gonna even know you are gay unless you start telling everybody and start putting dick shaped things in your ass?
As I have said before nobody cares if you are gay. There are no resturants refusing service to you. Yet you whine about it like it's the end of the world.
Personally I don't care of the law gets passed. Do you know why? Because literally nothing would change in my life or your life. Infact my life would better better because it would give you faggots one less thing to needlessly bitch about. But I know you will probably still bitch about it anyways.
You'd all start saying stupid gay shit like
"Anon, did you know if was illegal for gays to eat before 2016?" (Insert gayer lisp here) "Wow, we were so oppressed"