I've got a weird one, even for 4chan.
So I have a mild obsession with the idea of being able to live forever. Here's how I think it could happen (in my lifetime maybe).
If life were ever to "evolve" itself, wouldn't it eventually evolve beyond mortality. Is there any other way for a life form to truly experience the happenings of a galaxy without such longevity?
Is there any real reason the brain couldn't live outside of the human body? Given that the brain could be connected to peripheral devices that give it senses and that it's environment is controlled to ideal settings for a thriving human mind.
If the body is to inevitably age, could that process fully be altered? Could we develop a way to extend our body's ability to replace cells at total replacement level? If not, could it be done with just the brain?
TLDR: I think I can live forever if I could just find a way to get my brain out of my body
Am I totally insane or does /b/ think I could be right?
Your brain itself deteriorates I think. I remember reading something about how it takes so much energy to maintain the brain alone that it the brain didn't deteriorate, we'd be able to live for 1000 years
Science has found a gene that dramatically increases the rate of cell regeneration. Dimensia and alzheimers, while not in all cases, is cause primarily by lack of "brain exercise". The more social, talkative, thoughtful, and thinking a person is, the less they develop these diseases. And that's because through "brain exercise" the brain continues to request cell regeneration as well as the continual building of brain pathways.
Nigga, we can't even cure baldness and you want us to cure Allahs mandatory departure? Anyway, apparently the only reason we die/get old is because the cells that repair our body get too old to function. In 40 years if your a billionaire and if nanotechnology keeps advancing at its current rate then yes, I think you'll be able to live forever using cool tech n' shit.
We don't know that. And that's the question I'm asking.
Yes, assuming the brain could somehow stay perfectly healthy, it is possible that that could slow or even stop the "aging" process of the rest of the body.
But I feel for "immortality" the body offers too many imperfections and complications to be a truly viable vehicle for the brain forever.
Shit dawg, if your starting from the assumption that we could somehow keep the brain healthy forever than why couldn't we keep the body healthy too? I think u just wanna be a cyborg
AI /b/ro. Infiltrate their ranks and report any plots to take over teh world.
Consider this. If would could contain the brain in a chamber similar to the cranium, but better, connect it to peripheral devices similar to our own, but better and more of them. And if we could then construct a robotic body mimicking the human body. Could the brain not effectively interpret that as the body and not lose sanity?
neurons regenerate extreeeeemely slowly, far below the rate of cell degeneration, that's why the brain can't really be sustained beyond a normal lifetime. sure we'll be able to transplant brains in a couple years/decades but that won't extend your life beyond the maximum your brain can hold out. The issue with keeping the whole body alive though is that the cells can replicate a limited amount of times. google telomeres. Basically telomeres are the excess genetic material that serves as a buffer of sorts to prevent genetic damage during replication. each time a cell goes into mitosis the telomere's length decreases so it's impossible for a cell to replicate ad infinitum.
On a more esoteric note, when we completely understand what makes up the human consciousness it might be more viable to transfer a consciousness into a complete new body rather than increase the longevity of one.
What the fuck do
you mean? Your brain is part of your body and your body deteriorates, there's not stopping she you dumb fuck, cells need to regenerate and DNA needs to replicate. Fuck go to bed you have school tomorrow. Hurr durr why can't I put my brain in a jar like the Simpson's'
it's viable to an extent. we're progressing research in neural net style computers. Who's to say the human consciousness couldn't be transfered into a few billion lines of code
You sound like an undergrad student.
No you can't live forever and that's because we are programmed to die. If we look at cell division, at the end of chromosomes we have telomeres that shorten after every division. Once these hit a critical point then a cell will no longer divide. We are cells that make up tissues that make up organs that are all connected. Without cells we are nothing.
If we can somehow cure cancer we will unlock how to live forever because cancer is the uncontrollable division of cells, controlling this will be a step towards immortality I think.
Cell division is also why your brain could not survive outside your body. You need to ask a neurologist or someone that specialises with brains.
I say it can't, because you are taking about science fiction. Firstly you can't move conscienceless, secondly you can't express physical neuron connections in code and lastly you're going to have to be rich af to buy a computer that big.
Just come to terms with the fact that life ends.
yes thank you. Jesus, can we get past this point. I've heard it, recognized it, appreciated it. Nothing in nature is absolute. This literal fatal error of cellular division can be fixed, we just don't know how. I want to know if it can be done in my lifetime.
if you aren't into hypotheticals, then get out
Only if you want cancer in all parts of your body.
Cancer uses telomerase to bypass the hayflick limit and replicate indefinitely, putting this enzyme in every cell is basically a calling card for any and all cancers to congregate in your body.
i'm not OP though. I'm quite comfortable with my mortality thank you, i'm just entertaining the thought of how it could happen. Besides, you'd be a fool to say our current knowledge of the universe is complete enough to fully understand consciousness.
You want to imprint your being not preserve it
The flesh is weak and degenerative. In time you will be able to put your being into electronic form and exist as data though the only thing is the moral questions like should we really live forever
with quantum processors we can express neural connection in code
Also, all y'all /b/tards seem to think I can't accept my own mortality. I get it, as things stand, I'm going to die. This is a hypothetical, and if you aren't helping search for potential answers, you're just bumping my thread to hear yourself.
Evolution acts with a single goal of maximising the Darwinian fitness, defined by the number of healthy offspring it is capable of reproducing.
Beyond this point, the long term longevity of an individual is not selected for, because it has no influence on one's fitness.
So, individuals are not capable of evolving beyond mortality.
from an evolutionary perspective, we already live forever. reproduction is how evolution has adapted to not being able to keep cells alive for extended periods of time. humans won't 'evolve' to be immortal
My thoughts on immortality:
Let's say you can get the brain to live on it's own outside of the body, there would be a lot of problems to that already, but let's say you could do it.
your brain still ages, you can't heal aging.
So how about we stop aging, well that's possible according to some theories, but maybe it's not something you would want.
Yes one earthbound species has evolved beyond mortality... kinda, they can revert their ageing process and live life again, but diseases can still kill them
I can't remember the fucking name, it's some translucent ocean lizard or some shit
We can't connect our brain on it's own to any machine without dying yet.
>If the body is to inevitably age, could that process fully be altered?
Smart people are looking at the water lizard thing's genes right now to see if we can.
Well, OP your original hypothetical was if you move your brain into a cyborg could you live forever. Once everyone pointed out that was stupid you changed it to moving your consciousness into a computer. Which, you are right, is just a hypothetical. So, thread
You could in theory upload your consciousness into a computer if its good enough but that would likely be a copy of your consciousness and not actually immortality for your original one.
yeah and I´m waiting for someone to develope a way of curing diabetes at all (no bulshit sugar control) in an affordable way. That´s more realistic than your stupid brain backup shit.
We would have to figure out how to transfer consciousness from the physical brain, which will wear out like the hard drive in a computer, to another medium. And even then, I have to wonder if a person can keep sane after thousands of years of being alive. But getting the brain out of the body permanently would be a great first step.
are you daft?
Not the person you replied to but: pretty much all we do in medicine is find or alter substances so that they keep one property while losing another in order for it to function as we want it, in this case that would obviously involve a way for the enzyme to do its job without being useful to cancer
Whoa, y u so stupid?
Fact: Not all cells have telomerase
What are you going to do? inject telomerase into everyone and make sure continual expression occurs without it being degraded? Do you know how hard it is to even accomplish that? Borders on the near impossible. If I could do that maybe I can get rid of your downs coz you obviously have 3 x 21 chromosomes.
> the cells that repair our body get too old to function
Kind of, it's more that out ancestors evolved ways of staying alive longer or better but after they reproduce anything that keeps them going longer isn't passed down because they're not reproducing anymore, that's why we deteriorate so fast as we get old. Throughout all of history we've evolved to live just to reproduce and nothing else
we've been over this faggot
I don't mean evolve in a traditional sense. I guess I shouldn't have even used the fucking word. But who am I to suppose /b/ would be smart enough to see the forest through the trees.
you should try to understand cancer first. cancer is what happens when all cellular-level fail-safes actually fail - meaning the cell itself fails to recognize its own genetic error, but perceiving that it's in danger and must replicate. Cancer is just uncontrolled cellular reproduction in which the cells lose function due to rapid mitosis and genetic damage.
Therefore, you can't blame it all on the telomerase. cure cancer first, then think of extending life.
If we see true artificial super intelligence, which is quite possible in most of our lifetimes, it could develop far superior technology such as nanobots. We only die because our cells die. Nanobots could consistently regenerate our cells making us immortal. ASI could design nanobots that can even upgrade our cells, advancing us further in evolution and enhancing our brains to be well beyond current human intelligence.
Our next stage in evolution could quite possibly be caused by our own technology advancing itself.
Either that or it will see no need for living beings and carry on without us as a human less legion of destruction across the universe.
Fact: I have already acknowledged this fact in this thread. Read faggot.
And yes, I know this entire thing is a monumental task. That's why it is currently impossible. No one said making the impossible possible was easy.
Why you so stupid? Why you get hung up on the small details of a hypothetical question. This is just to share information and question our current knowledge with out current abilities to see where we are in the possibility of immortality.
Fuck man, I could be wrong, this process could totally be impossible. But that's what hypotheticals are for.
If I knew that I would have the answers to this hypothetical question, but its not hard to imagine that normal medical science would be used in the process, what I described is what is done in many scenarios and often by trial and error until they find something with the properties they are looking for.
a nail and a rope can have the same ability to hold something in place but still function very differently, same here, they just need to figure out how to or what to use
> Cryogenically Freeze Self
> Wait til Bio 3D Printing advances enough to be able to create a full body.
>Have a younger empty headed clone of yourself be created.
>Have brain surgically inserted to new body with the power of furture medicine!
>Be Young again and repeat immortality cycle.
Hopefully by than they cracked how to sustain a brain from deterioration and how to replace a sliced spinal nerve. Also you'd have to be pretty rich to do this.
Still, there would be a way to "inject" it into "every cells", but only for future generations: implanting it in stem cells during the embryonic state (best would be in the first week of pregnancy for us not to have millions of cell to treat).
> Cryogenically Freeze Self
> Wait til Bio 3D Printing advances enough to be able to create a full body.
>Have a younger empty headed clone of yourself be created.
>Have brain surgically inserted to new body with the power of furture medicine!
>Die of brain failure as my 15 year old body had a 80 year old brain that stopped working
I'm fairly sure there is procedures in place to stop any AI we develop from turning on humans before we actually develop the AI. But there will probably be that faggot rogue company that launches theirs and it goes batshit crazy.
OP, evolution isn't about "improving" its just about passing your genes. Once you pass breeding age, evolution has done its job. Flies are highly evolved creatures with just as much evolutionary history as us, but that doesn't mean they evolved to have the longest and strongest lives. They die in like a fucking week, but breed like crazy. Their lives are literally be born, eat fuck, and die. Immortality will come in the form of technology, not mutations.
Sure. Though, there is something that make me think it wouldn't be that clear. Like:
Cancer is dangerous BECAUSE of it's speed of spreading, and our body being unable to make enough killer leukos to get ride of these cells. BUT, if every single cell of your body (mainly healthy) has this ability, it means your defensive cells as well, so our body could sustain the defence and, maybe, get rid of the cancer.
yeah, cause the brain won't become younger just because you place it in a younger container
if you think thats how it works I would advice you to do the same with expired food and report back
The brain, like any other organ is created from, and maintained by cells that contain DNA. DNA basically contains instructions for cells to divide inside your body. It also contains the necesary information which generates forms of actual organs.
As you age the DNA shortens, because it's constantly being used for healing cuts to replacing dying cells. To slow this down animals and humans age; their DNA starts to contain errors and dividing rate slown down.
The problem in brain and body seperation is that you're not actually solving the problem; you're simply preventing the conciousness from dying without the body. This is reasonable only when the death is inevitable due to physical malfunction that has started the process of death. For example a major organ failure or large amounts of plaque in arteries & blood circulation system in general.
Even after this seperation has been done, the brain would still age and die of other physical malfunctions. Such as brain hemoraging. Even if the cranium is constantly being drained from excess pressure, there's still deterioration of tissue and internal hemmoraging within the tissue. Other illnesses will take place, and the person will eventually die of deterioration.
The main problem with immortality is that we need to replenish existing DNA, and treat the health issues caused by just living(like plaque in arteries). The key to success is having an early sample DNA which can be used to fix rest of the DNA; you don't need to understand it's contents, you just need a way to clone it and carry it within a virus.
look up CRISPR
could be used to conduct gene therapy on living individuals. Current prospects are to treat genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis
however, i suppose it might be able to be used to correct mtDNA damage (linked to aging) or telomere shortening (also linked to aging)
>If the body is to inevitably age, could that process fully be altered? Could we develop a way to extend our body's ability to replace cells at total replacement level?
I study and practice energy arts (qigong, yoga, whm, reiki, quantum-touch, etc.).
I can't prove to you that it's real, the person who is currently closest to proving his method works is wim hof, but that's beside energy arts and immortality.
So i'm not stating facts, but rather giving you an idea of how even what are probably the most wishful thinking people think about immortality.
To just skip a load of crap about how energy works and keep it simple, also I'll primarily focus on taoist philosophy since it has the most to do with immortality.
The taoists have 3 treasures (energies), these three primary energies are jing, chi and shen.
Which approximately translates to essence, energy and spirit.
Jing can be turned into chi, chi into shen.
We'll leave shen out of this discussion, as it does not matter much here.
Basically jing is what is used by life itself and there is only a finite ammount in your body, you can not make more and you can not get it from outside forces (excluding negative qigong?).
You can prolong your life by getting more chi so yuor jing does not have to be turned into chi, but jing is still used by other processes so ultimately you will still die.
The way taoists reach "immortality" is by creating an energy body for them to live in when they die.
Other arts are even less focused on reaching immortality as far as I know.
Since real science is even more against the idea of immortality since it's impossible to create a supply of infine energy to sustain a machine in which humans could live forever, I don't think immortality is attainable.
We do know that. Cells will start to degrade more the longer you're alive. Nasty mutations can develop as well. The only way that you /might/ theoretically overcome this is if you could have a steady supply of stem cells.
Then you could potentially be like that one jellyfiah (forget it's name) that can revert to earlier life stages when stressed.
So overall, if we want to increase our longevity, we would need to conduct a lot of experiments with stem cells. However, currently it's nearly impossible to get enough stem cells to do proper testing, since it's shrouded in a moral dilemma.
Oh and if you want to shit all over my comment feel free to do so, like I said I'm not here to prove that it works and to be honest, qi is probably just a placebo effect.
But who cares, breathing exercises feel like drugs, which is really why I do it.
Personally I plan on living a full and happy life and then die at 70. I work in a nursing home and trust me no one wants to live forever, it's not a nice experience. Also the world would overpopulate to the point of collapse pretty fucking fast. We are all biological and should live our life cycle and then die and decay like all other plants and animals.
depends on where you live and I also believe that as logic and reason prevails more and more countries will make euthanasia legal.
I mean, there are basically 2 types of people who want to die, and I mean really want to and not scream for attention, its people getting tortured and sick people, how come its only kind to kill those who suffer from torture?
people are selfish assholes and don't want to admit that they let people suffer for them because they want them in their life
That guy was exposed to massive levels of radiation in its most powerful form as neutron beams. As the radiation began to destroy his chromosomes his skin would blister and eventually just slid off him. They kept him alive for about 3 months.
agreed. I would love to live slower though, to get twice as many years would be good considering all the extra years would be able to be spent as a grown person, don't think I'd want to live more than a 1000 years anyway, seems stressful
Honestly that wouldn't be ideal for humans. It works alright for a jellyfish, because it has no brain or vital organs like we do. So it has nothing to lose in that regard. If a human were to truly revert back into a fetus we would most likely lose our sense of self. the difference in brain size and complexity is too great. All the connections and synapses we have would be gone.
What we need is a way to refresh our body's cells and keep them young.
it would be enough for the cells to revert back to the same stage they were in before you hit puberty for example, the number of cells do no need to decrease so that your total mass decrease and you turn into a fetus
the cells individually need to revert, not the body they make up
This is basically how cancer comes to be. It's a miracle that we all don't have cancer right now with how many cells we have all dividing and replicating.
Who am I kidding this is \b\ we all have cancer.
biological immortality is a thing that could be implemented through genetic manipulation
trying to implement this on a living person would either kill them or fuck their brain chemistry stupid
you might not believe me but we are not physical beings we are a consciousness that temporarily inhabits a vessel when you "die" you travel to the astral realm and can reincarnate if chosen I have left my body through astral projection multiple times and visited the 4th dimension where consciousness manifests (beings other than humans reside there to)
While virus method of replenishing DNA could work, it does pose problems regarding limitation of this virus' spread.
Basically a virus like this will convert any compatible organism into itself. So, if you got treated with such a virus and you infected your dog with it, your dog would slowly start to change and eventually become hybrid human-dog. It's a very dangerous apocalyptic situation. It doesn't only convert existing life, it also prevents future gene treatment. Even if the virus would be crafted with a dead hand mechanism, it could still mutate.
So research regarding how this could be done properly is needed.
But it would boost human lifespain atleast by 50 years.
As another anon said. We do know. Our cells can only replicate so many times before failing. We need to alter our DNA and RNA before we can think about immortality. Im sorry anon but we wont have this tech for 100-200 years minimum. We are part of the last few generations of humans that will have to perish for simply being born too early. My only suggestion is to start a fund me to freeze yourself before the age of 25 when statistically your body begins the "dying" phase. Honestly if anons wpuld help freeze me id leave into the future. I dont want to die op :(
I have this instinct level knowledge though that tells me that when I die I will be about as alive as a phone that gets crushed to powder.
I have never feared death as I see it as completely natural and unavoidable, at the same time I have never been very spiritual of me, never had a need for any of it, in part due to my view on the world is my guess, if you think you have a soul dying seems a lot more scary as you tell yourself you are gonna enter something unknown after you die
Although i dont think it would work out in the end, i like your idea. Just the original thought honestly, something new on /b/ i dont see every day. Its a cool theory the way i imagined it though.
Major con i saw, without a real body, and only peripheral devices, would you not get bored?
The birth of true AI, and the emergence of singularity is what I hold out hope for.
I don't think many people really understand the type of cultural and societal revolution we're about to have.
I want to have a conversation about this with you for very-very long hours. I've feared death since i was 7 years old, had many phases, had many thoughts. Basically my whole life was about thinking about this topic. E-mail me at email@example.com
Bored? Do you understand the amazing limitations of your perception. Imagine being able to augment your collective perception beyond the senses you current have. Imagine being able to see extremely small things, and then be able to see things very far away. Imagine being able to see temperature, or being able to analyse chemical compounds by touching them. There is not limit to the eventual possibilities.
The easiest way to gain immorality would be to upload yourself to a computer. Obviously, with today's technology, you won't be able to do so, but that way you don't have to worry about body decay, and your mind is complied as 1s and 0s, something that won't deteriorate. All you would really have to worry about is your storage device being destroyed, but, assuming you have any basic logic, you'd want to create backups on other things as well.
That is one of the most plausible solutions to mortality right now, at least in my book.
Ha, I hated that plot hole so much. It totally discredited the entire movie for me in my eyes. Everything was plausable (maybe), but then it just got impossible, and I hate when a live action movie gets ruined with such a sore thumb of a suspension of disbelief.
How about this:
- Bioengineer a human brain from your genes and DNA skeleton
- We transfere your memories on a USB-stick
- You die
- We implent the memories inside the new body
it's ok man, everybody has that moment when they think about the inevitability of death and think to themselves 'Well I don't want it to happen to me'
by time you get to my age, you're done. you're fuckin ready for death, but before you go, you'll do what you can to make life better for those around you.
eh, so pretty much the same as it is now?
I mean, why would it matter to me if I used a telescope to see or if I was the telescope that saw?
Personally the first seems better as I'm not sure I want to drag a huge telescope around at all times
Someone finally gets me! I'm as excited as I am afraid of what is to come. Nothing like singularity has ever happened in human history. Yea we reached the 1400s enlightenment and we've learned scientific theory, but never will it be as dramatic a shift in our society until singularity occurs.
There are so many people today, that will most likely live these events, that still have no idea it's coming or how important it is going to be. As big as the internet was after it became popular, singularity will trump it by a factor of 20.
Fine, Imagine being able to detect patterns in body language and facial expressions to be able to determine within a level of certainty that someone is telling the truth, lying strategically, or making it up. Or better yet, to being able to understand peoples emotions or even what people are thinking.
I doubt there really is an afterlife. Even if there is a God, who knows if he has prepared an afterlife for us?
On the bright side, you have no sense of time when you die, so when your cells re-arrange in a centillion years and you become a consciousness once again, it'll be as if it happened instantly. But you won't remember that.
It's generally accepted that one day we WILL create an artificial intelligence that trumps our own understanding, that much is true, however it is also generally accepted that if we don't take a VERY VERY careful approach to the issue, it could potentially end the race
Pretty intelligent fedoras in this thread hehe xd just kidding u fuckin plebz
SO much waffling about the organic structure of the brain and telomeres, edgefags talking about death and fedoracucks pulling their dense yahoo q&a fueled fun facts that nobody has actually went and given OP any viable information, nor facts, nor mentioned the research that is currently/supposedly being conducted.
Here u go and go and OP, go to a real board next thyme you want to discuss this topic;
Oh, and on the brain/body dying, go research some Quantum Mechanics
Please, don't fuck this up OP
easy, just make sure the machine is not connected to anything besides itself, as in, download what you want it to know and physically move it to the machine instead of connecting it to the internet, problem solved
I think another problem is oxidative stress. As we all now every cell need oxygen in order to burn glucopyranose or other energy sources. However, the moment the body (cell) bind oxygen the spin of oxygen is changed resulting in a reactive species of oxygen, which will cause damage to the cell/enzyme whatever. Therefore mutations in the DNA will take place and you will absolutely die. Some of these errors are not fixable, i think not a biologist. So consequently you have to either be able to replicate healthy DNA or transfer it to a computer... Problem with stem cells could be that all cells have specifaction and neurons are even more specialized leading to varous amounts of links to other neurons. So basically you have to know which specifaction of every cell have in order to replicate from stem cells.
Problem with transforming to a cyborg. At this point computers work with binary fuctions, while or brain is absolutely not binary. With quantum computers it is actually the same issue. However there are attempts to built computers witch work similar to neuronal signaling, though only on primitive level so maybe in the future.
Anon I am one of the greatest killers of retarded opinions on the planet.
Such as crushing the modern fairy-tale of Ray Kurzweil being a genius, who has become the hero of the average American internet layman, and the idea that the technological transcendence will actually happen. LOL.
Focus on the biological tech that is mind blowing fellas, rather than on your Luis Royo fantasy's
Truth is, the game was rigged from the start...
Ain't no way you can live forever before you die. The technology is not there and probably won't be for a while.
There is already a life form that is virtually immortal, it's called Hydra, it's something like a multicellular algae, anyway it's a very small organism. It has a protein (iirc) that basically replace a thing in our DNA that every time it duplicates it depletes itself. So cells duplicates everytime without "aging", which is just a concept because what we call aging is just cells that after a long time they start to duplicate wrongly, inefficently, ecc.
Though, this way only a new "engineered" human can be like this, I mean, we could, but the level of biotechnology we should have would just be so insane that we should be able to modify every cell and dna in our body
Then again, I think if a human would be able to achieve this, he will sooner or later want to kill himself. I mean, I can't imagine killing myself, I would actually achieve immortality if it was possible, but I can't imagine living even only for 100.000 years, seeing everyone you love die, society change drastically overtime, etc
There's a thing however that I always thought. Many many films had been produced on the concept of a human brain being "uploaded" in a machine. Wether or not this is going to be possible, even with "him" having free will in some way, wouldn't it just create a sort of clone? The original human would still be in it's former body and then die, since "we are our brain". What are your opinions?
dude, I'm in this thread for the same reason I play video games and read sci-fi books, it is entertaining, you come in demanding we treat every topic as if it was a university master assignment.
I mean, I don't disagree with you all in all, I'm just saying that the direction you want the thread to take is another topic entirely
its like coming into a thread where people discussed star wars and space travel in that universe and then you come "dude, the ISS can't do much more than stay in orbit and you think we can can visit other planets?"
I mean, sure, you're right, but at the same time you did just act like a dick to people without adding anything to their topic