Okay can someone tell me what the fuck these guys do?
>I hear they do a lot for charity.
>I hear they are just richfags who help each other out.
>I hear they run around playing grab ass with each other
>I hear they worship satan and make sacrifices.
Does anyone have some actual interesting info?
I work in a bar and my bosses dad is a freemason.
I get along with him great!
One time when me and my boss were coked up and I asked if he knew anything.
He just told me the charity stuff but there has to be more to it, right? RIGHT?!
It's basically three things:
1) Teach a man how to be a rational man, acting with reason and free will
I have friends who are master masons, they're some of the best human beings ever.
lol literally nothing. They have a "ritual" which is essentially a little play that they do to start some meetings called "stated meetings" (They usually have these once a month) where they conduct their business. They discuss what they have planned in terms of community events and charity work for the ensuing month. Then they have some sandwiches or beer or whatever and go on their way.
Otherwise they go to the bar together and do charity and community work. It's a cool group for guys that care about their communities, nothing more.
No, you have to pay yearly dues but they aren't anything expensive. If you can pay a couple hundred a year and afford a decent suit you're good.
There's members of high and low income, young and old.
Masons must believe in some sort of a "supreme creator" this can be whatever you interpret it as. There are many Christians, but other religions as well. There is not a Freemason god or religion.
We never specify. As long as you believe in a monotheist spiritual belief your good. The Grand Architect is what he goes by in lodge. To some he may be the christian god, he could be Allah, or anything really. Its very ambiguous
Yeah i heard that you have to believe in some sort of higher being?
whether it's god or some sort of multidimensional entity.
Well I'm black, 20 years old and work in a bar making about a minimum of 100 a week. Am I good enough?
It's simple OP. The masonfags are guys who can't stand on their own two feet and make their own way in life, so they get together and leech off of each other to try to advance in life.
It's organized codependency. They all try to make their own individual problems and make them other people's problems, and expect the other masons to have to help them.
It's fucked up infantile stuff.
i had a friend who was a freemason in colorado
he grew pot and was a pretty decent fellow.
he wasnt super wealthy but he was pretty well off
Outside of America American freemasonry is taken almost like a joke. We hear that in America it is just like one day you do all of the degrees, pay your dues, and thats it. Netherlandic out of GLSA here.
Mind citing your source there? It's pretty hard to believe that a group of dudes that can't agree on whether to serve ham or turkey sandwiches and sam adams or fat tire after a meeting are at all cynical.
But thanks for the nonconstructive post!
both my fther and grandfather are 32 degree masons, they pretty much just fraternize together. most of them do help the communities a lot, and the Shriners are the best group at that.
but like i said its mostly like a social club for men with morals
no its more like.
if i have an idea, and you have an idea, if we trade ideas we both now have 2 ideas without loosing anything.
its a glitch in reality if you are trusting enough.
its just a hub where people share ideas freely and if an idea helps anothers life they help you back, you lose nothing by giving out ideas that have helped you in the past.
>yo don't know what you are talking aboutsa
How have his questions not been answered ?
-We do a lot of charity
-We arent all rich. Im a 19 year old poor college student and a mason
-We dont grab each others asses
-and we dont make sacrifices or worship satan
Almost everything taught in Freemasonry is information you "know", but you don't know you know it. Common sense/philosophical/productive things that are obvious AFTER you learn it, but you weren't focusing on in day to day life. After becoming a Freemason you kind of figure out things about your life and what you should be focusing on, while giving charity as an organization to maximize the support.
Masons know what I'm talking about.
As far as the "secret power" etc. that Freemasonry appears to have - It can be broken down very simply.
Freemasons are not members for business or political connections - but lets say you need a dentist, and someone in your lodge happens to be a dentist. Who do you think you will decide to use as your dentist? Or as your mechanic? Or as your IT guy?
Its a group of men who have the same goals and outlook - who happen to circulate in the same community. Because of that, there is a good chance that you will meet people you want to work with in that community, just like if you were on the same sports team or attending the same church.
This was actually quite eye opening.
Would you guys say there are any bad things about being a mason?
like any annoying or pestering things that could send a man a tiny bit insane?
IT could be bad if you are a young guy and join a lodge of mostly older men - the only annoying thing is sometimes you feel compelled to go to a meeting when you shouldn't or have another plan, or feel compelled to hang out with them more even though you have other things to do.
Its just like any other social relationship, but you all have the same kind of thinking. Nothing really annoying or pestering though, just the normal stuff that can happen in a group.
Also because of that, a lot of the guys I first met in Freemasonry are no longer with us - if you are joining through older people it sucks to hear about sickness and stuff - they become your friends when you are 20-30 and they are 70+. There are less and less young people joining Freemasonry every year..
Judging by members:
40-60 year old dudes who like beer and roasted animals and do some fundraising for charity. Mostly white and mostly ball-busting types. The sort of people who buy (and can afford to buy) vintage muscle cars and also dabble in swinging. It's like the Knight of Columbus with less Pope or Shriners with more Elephant Walk.
If you are referring to the Skull and Bones Society of Yale it has little to do with freemason. It is just a super preppy and secret frat there. Freemasons do use the skull and bones symbol as a reminder of our own mortality.
There are younger lodges. im in one with mostly 30 year olds. Im 19
I heard one of the final levels they have to eat asshole one hour to get to 33 degree, and reach master level by sucking anus...
Very interesting, okay so I think I want to join, but I will probably talk to My bosses dad a bit more first.
who'd you say it would be better to ask him for invitation or go to the lodge and get a petition.
there is a masonry hall 5 mins away from my house with a buzzer, do I just knock and go "Hey can I join?"
Talk to your Dads boss. You will need two signatures from Master Masons. Have the petition ready so if you get the process moving. Go to your local lodges website or call them and see if they have office hours. Stop in and get one. Sometimes they have online printable ones.
If you are still legally a man you can petition.
to make it short.
the masons are just your regular non-insane nice americans whome dont gamble and bust their fucking balls working hard and making sure their comunity is safe and free from leeches.
I would assume its because its a bunch of guys hanging out in the evening behind closed doors and they dont talk about what goes on inside. Its a perfect crucible for rumors of the ass grabbing kind.
Its the belief in a single diety. You couldn't be pegan or Hindu for example
There are one day classes,but generally speaking you have to be in each degree for one month and prove proficiency in the work of the previous degree before you can receive the next degree
I don't know if this has already been said, ( because im a lazy fucker and didnt read any of the replies ), but the Freemasons don't worship satan. In fact, you have to be a devout believer of god.
i never said they couldnt be. i said americans, i never ment to exclude anyone from that umbrella term. but for the most part i am only talking about what i have experience within.
In England they would say its the one place were men and kings could walk among each other as equals. Many British nobility are masons.
It took me about 6 months from 1st to 3rd degree
Well I like the sound of you guys.
I guess my only problem is the part where I have to believe in a higher being/creator.
I'm fully atheist and believe in the universe and that everything is connected kind of thing.
would you say believing in the universe counts as believing in a higher being?
higher being is the grand architect of the universe.
You do not have to explain what you believe. If you want to call the universal forces of physics that operate on everything "God", then that is your grand architect. It doesn't have to be judeochristian, it just has to have overarching principles and a base sense of morality.
>its hard to explain.
it's simple. they filter people out by the 'belief' defect. that way they know the initiate will believe other irrational shit and keep secrets for equally irrational reasons.
There are no rules to it, and no explanations before you join. They ask you if you believe in a grand architect. Answer yes if its yes, answer no if its no. Anything you want pretty much "counts" as long as you think it does. It is very personal.
My Grandfather is a 33 degree Mason of the Scottish Rite and a Shriner. This only came up when I pointed out a book on his shelf which he gave to me; Morals and Dogma. He told me that I needed to ask to start and I hesitated. Since then I have firmed up my position. He said a friend of his will be in contact soon and he left some silver. I will be asking in the coming weeks.
What should I expect?
It is whatever you say it is. There is no explanation when you join. Religion is not discussed much in Freemasonry, but there are a lot of principles in it that are based on the bible - they are principles that anyone can use, simple moral deductions that you don't necessarily need to have taken from the bible, thats just the specific reference used in some cases.
Paddles and whips! Im kidding, Expect to meet with a investigation comity. They will ask you some questions and the lodge will vote. If all goes well you will be invited to receive the first degree.
do they do background checks and stuff for America? Where I live its all taken at your word pretty much, and at the petition signatures of the two sponsors and whatever information is discussed during the vote.
Again I've never heard polythestic beliefs are against masonry. Even in a pantheon of Gods there is one superior to the rest.
At least my lodge doesn't seem to care that one of our brothers is an odinist/heathen
They are a predominantly Christian organization but they do not discriminate as far I know. Most masons are not rich, they are actually fairly upper to middle class but there are plenty of blue-collar masons these days. It is mostly older men, women are not allowed entry. It differs from community to community but, generally, they hand-out scholarships and do charity work within their communities. They are just a fraternity for older guys (though young men can join) I has seen some of their officer's installations and know a lot of them (my father included) - in my town the lodge was mostly intellectually-esteemed men who were very interested in historical preservation. There was a time when the masons were a very powerful organization with strong ties to local and federal government but these days they are more so like-minded people who meet to talk about helping other people out.
Some do it depends on the lodge. Mine does.
It really dpeneds on the lodge. Some more traditional lodge would be very against that while some might be fine with it. And if you want you can always go to another lodge.
people that volunteer their lives to these fraternities are ruining everything. the jew cabal manner of operating is a huge issue; it's all 'deny deny pacify euphemize play the victim' shit. everyone demonizes the masons for keeping secrets and giving each other discounts in life; jobs, connections, actual discounts and you 'raise funds' a lot- like fucking jews, trick people into giving you their shekels. eat shit
Look, if all of humanity banded together we would all enjoy the assistance and friendship of everyone else. As it is right now, people separate themselves off into groups. Whether they identify as Jewish, American, Freemason, Catholic, etc. everyone has their group that is closer to their heart and therefore there is a preference there which over hundreds and/or thousands of years expands into many different fields.
Getting a job through a friend from college is the same thing as a Jew hiring another Jew do paint his house or do his legal work or a Freemason hiring another Freemason to do his taxes or to rent a house from.
There isn't a globally recognized network of dealings or discounts being run by Freemasonry as a whole just like there is no Jewish or Catholic group running globally in a certain industry.
>globally recognized network of dealings or discounts
you qualified 'globally'. no one said anything about 'globally'.
oh yeah, and that's the 'deny' part in case you missed it.
What makes more sense logically, that you can logistically monitor and organize groups of millions of people for one specific goal, or that groups of like-minded people find each other and decide to work together on things they believe in or are passionate about?
I was asked if i wanted to decipher the text a couple years back. knew quite a few, and being a reasonable, smart person i guess im not surprised why i would be asked. i was maybe 22 then. being almost 30 now maybe i would have taken up the offer
and not one of these 'special members' had the fuckingballs to say, 'you know what, i'm not gonna bite this sweet, shiny, juicy apple, because i know that it ultimately makes a slanted playing field of privilege and ignorance, a tiered system of opportunity whose gates are guarded by men of questionable values and undoubtedly inflated senses of entitlement and power-- not one of you was able to resist.
so fuck you, i cannot respect that
>we throw ladels of soup and dry bread at poor fucks; and we make the most noise about this one- grab the cameras, call the news
>we collect charity money for shill crony organizations like the cancer industry
>we make huge backroom deals with each other based on favour and insider information
What are you talking about?
If you are talking about the current financial system; you need to study some econ - that was done by the deregulation and prioritization of shady mortgage deals and government contracts by almost all the banks in almost all of the western countries, all the way from the big boys in America to the banks in Iceland and France and Greece etc.
Travel to new york, most people in the financial industry are not a part of these groups, they are just looking to make a buck.
You're angry at yourself for not having anything in your life worth having.
Let me guess - you have little prospects for jobs, no college education, a poor home life and you've turned to drugs and alcohol as a means to escape your dreary existence.
Don't worry, I'm not going to insult or belittle you - I will help you if you want it, but it's up to you to take the hand I'm offering.
We are here to make the world a better place. This is done by fostering good men. If you want to learn more about freemasonry, talk to a mason.
Final question and it's about money again.
Say one Mason helped out another and that Mason was extremely satisfied with his help.
Would it be right for that Mason to then ask for financial help of the other Mason?
whether it be landing a Job or right out giving money?
captca: resptc funding
you don't ask for financial help per say. That situation wouldn't really happen. If I hear you are struggling with something, I'll help you as a nice person from my heart - it isn't really an issue for freemasonry.
Gotta make the distinction between helping as a friend and helping as a freemason. It wouldn't be right to approach someone for help within the lodge unless it has to do with pension, funeral, etc.
Not really. Charity is one of the tenants of the organization - charity for brethren, charity for the less fortunate, etc.
Nepotism involves power or influence - we don't give that away. We offer chances and give the items you need.
I've helped Freemasons I have never met before - one lost a job as a result of his wife's illness.
I got him in contact with a friend who was not a Freemason who was looking to hire someone for some work, and the job was one in which he could work from home.
He still has the job, his wife is doing better now, and I got to help a person in their time of need.
Thats fine, I'm guessing you did it outside of the lodge and not through formal channels so thats what I meant by friend and freemason; that wouldnt be done officially by freemasonry as a body, but freemasons happen to be nice people who do it through a feeling of friendship or desire to help.
No - it was a personal helping hand. The family I helped I heard about from a Freemason friend. I was not expected to do something officially - I did so of my own initiative because I knew someone that was needing someone like him for a job.
Went to a wedding in a Masonic temple. I started exploring and found this in a strange room with robes and armored helmets. Anybody have any info.
My higher being is the universe, I believe the universe has it's own entity that we as humans cannot begin to comprehend because we are a extremely minuscule product of the universe (we are a way of the universe experiencing itself)
I believe everything in the universe is connected and that this entity created and guides our lives through our understanding of nature.
would this be a good enough higher power to join?
I know you guys said they don't ask you to specify but from what I've read on here, different lodges have varied rules. so I may have to give a brief explanation
look, you could probably decide just by what has been said here whether or not it would be good for you - only you can know if you would gain from some self and social contemplation via a fraternity. It isn't really something we can say because it is different for everyone.
There are a couple of things you need to answer for yourself.
1) Are you a good man?
2) Do you believe in a supreme being (of some form)
3) Do you like the people in the lodge (you will need to get to know the members of a lodge before you are allowed to petition - if you don't know anyone yet, find a lodge and let them know your interested)?
If so, you should join. You will find a way to contribute if you so desire.
This comes straight from the freemason lodge in my city
To Become a Freemason You Must:
Be a man, freeborn, of mature age, of good repute, and well-recommended
Have a belief in a Supreme Being
Be able to support one’s self and family
Come to Freemasonry of your “own free will and accord”
“Be a Man, Freeborn, of Mature age, of Good Repute and Well Recommended”
The applicant must be a man (Freemasonry is a fraternal organization) and be at least 21 years of age. He must be of good moral character and demonstrate responsibility in his family and work. To join a Lodge, a man needs to be sponsored by two Masons who belong to that Lodge.
“Belief in a Supreme Being”
You can always contact a lodge near you and let them know your interested. I never tried searching online for one, but this site seems legit:
Guys you've given me some really interesting information to ponder on.
I'm gonna talk to my bosses Dad so I can get to know the lodge in my area a bit more.
I really do appreciate this though, this is actually something I would like to join but I need to prep myself a bit more, what with money and such.
again thank you very much.
>can't talk about it
>you won't understand
you don't get to decide what i will understand, and that's contradictory. if it's not a secret, and no one can understand, then why is it actually a secret?
>exactly, you wouldn't get it
and here we are now, and my question is.. what specifically, 'loses all meaning outside of the lodge'?
The way information is presented has a lot to do with how it is interpreted. There is no way of sharing masonic teachings through a 4chan message board. The meaning will be lost. The only real way to learn about the "secrets" of masonry is to become a mason and experience it for yourself.
Holy shit that was a sea of ad hominim.
Also you sound like an entitled cunt who thinks his "hand" that he is offering is better than everyone elses.
you know what else shares that exact set of conditions? good proper hypnotic induction.
if anything, i feel worse about masonry. it's the same reason pyramid schemes and financial schemes, or evangelical charismatic preachers, require in-house access to the victim's entire sensory palate-- not inspiring confidence here
We don't advocate for any specific god. We simply believe there is an intelligent designer of the universe - nothing more. Each mason is left to decide what or who god is to them. For some it is god depicted in the bible, for others it is the sun god, etc. We do not subscribe to any one religion over any other - that is up to the individual to decide.
or scientology ffs. scientology should be the poster child for secret exclusive by invitation fraternities that move monetary resources internally- on the basis of real fucked up shit.
cthulu called and told me to fund raise for child cancer, rite?
just like any other fraternal organization. Like the FOP(fraternal order of police) and Shriners And the PTA(Parent Teacher Association) If you think that people banding together is wrong then you need to be in the forest.
http://grandlodge.on.ca/ for canadafags
http://www.msana.com/index.asp for amerifags
thanks for the reminder of these depraved, self-declared elitist fraternities. almost forgot that they control most of our modern civil service and literally put themselves above the law, abuse, and embezzle.
thanks for the reminder
My father was in it. Recently, they started getting all KKK and shit towards hispanics and black people so my dad told them to fuck off and walked out of one if their meetings.
I love my dad.
I heard that this is a pic of most Nederlanders
Remember Iran Contra Scandal was about US Government running Drugs, Weapons, and Trading with Iran while Iran was declared a Hostile nation? Remember how it came out that the US Government was working to take over a democratic government in Central America using Nicaragua, Guatamala, El Salvatdor or Honduras? I can't remmber right now.
Well it is like that with the Masons I guess. They are taught to remember things for the Levels they progress through... but the top of the organization is run by the Catholic Church who it is said runs it through Muslim Religion... as the Top Level of Masons is found in the Middle East and is in fact a Islamist organization.
Well anyway there are Videos on Youtube about all religions, Jews, Masons, all the ancient Mysteries
>yfw this is the most credible explanation of masons
Misinformed rant on something you have wrong ideas about . Then advocates getting "real" information from youtube.
Well Money is Status, Power, Control, and ownership of the US Congress & Government.
So who really is the puppet master of the US Government?
1) Wealthy Elite from Europe & USA
2) Jewish bankers or other Europeans & British Bankers who also own the Private Stock of the US Federal Reserve
3) Cartel or Conglomerate of Government & Corporate Powers, who plan & control our Destiny through Financial Powers, Credit, Debt, Money Creation, Rehypothication
4) An Agreement between Big Corporations & Big Government to Keep Corporations Big & Powerful & Use the US MIC, Security & Prison Complex to wage wars & Secure Resources like Oil Overseas, while keeping Sea Traffic Lanes open to Free Trade Shipping to Europe & the USA
Hm... Let me think of some more possibles.
Empires are the Imspiration for our Western Democratic Governments, but clearly we don't uphold the Democratic Ideals in history books.
5) Catholic Church is an Empire as well, Communist Countries seem to be more Organized Crime or Organized Elites than paradise... we usually call this Totalitarian Governments... But typically there is a Duopoly of Government Married with Corporations that are chosen as winners by Elites to get Government Preference.
My grandmother gave me my grandfather's old mason ring (he's dead). I'm curious about whether it works as a memorial thing to wear the ring or if it's disrespectful if you're not a member. (from what I can tell it's a low tier ring if that matters)
Usually only 3rd degree "master" masons wear the rings. I'd recommend wearing it on a chain as a necklace or something, but not as a ring as it might confuse some people or give them a wrong impression. Some people dont like Masons, some do.
>one freemason was set to be promoted to head dragon (or whatever they call the local leader)
>was rejected because he had slept with another freemasons sister. apparently that's not allowed
You forgot the most dangerous entitie that are threatening The government of the USA today. Fist and formost there is a shady organization that wants to bankrupt the US, force our schools to fall behind all the rest of the world and take our freedoms away. That diabolic organization is called the RNC. And there is another group that jaust wants to rule all the people of the world and though not a inherently evil as the RNC they nonr the less want to destroy the very fabric of our society. This group is an old enemy we have battled for millenniaThe crab people aer actively trying to ruin everything we hold dear.... And I think that Heaven guy smells sorta crabby.
I know what the official story is pretty much. But you can't actually believe that ZIRP & QE are designed to help Main Street or Small Businesses.
Moral Hazard is all we have from US Government Budget Spending and the Rescue of TBTF Banks... Dodd-Frank is a Watered Down piece of nonsense that will be further watered down by Congress in the Coming Months.
Federal Reserve has not a lot of tools to help Jobs, Wages, Compensation of workers, Business Formation, Business ENvironment... Congress has much more responsiblity & Tools of Legislation.
But the Fed is a tool of TBTF European Banks for 100 Years now. It has led us into WWI, WWII, the Great Depression, and the Overthrow of Depression Era Reforms that kept the Workers & Banks fairly safe.
FED is owned by TBTF London & US Bankers.
Masons... Not sure. Probably wealthy interests in Church, State, and Industry own the Masons.
This is how I became interested in masonry. The ring is yours to do with as you like. But if you chose to wear it you may be tested (we have discreet ways of telling who is legit and who isn't - and no its not a handshake) to see if your a mason by other masons, and expect awkwardness to ensue when they soon find out your not a mason.
Nobody will tell you that, not because they want to "keep the secret", but because everybody (and i mean LITERALLY everybody) perceives it in a different way.
Basically, it's just role-play, just like a theater piece, for which you can find the script easily over the internet, but the lesson for every member is a very personal one.
Greetings from a german mason.
Well the Board of Directors (BOD) and Chairman vote themselves salary and control the Executives... mostly this seems like a hidden entity to me.
There is a resent Study that shows very few corporations control like 2/3s of all corporations... this is done through relationships & links.
Think .01% or whatever.
You focus on 2 Banks executives? Or are you saying that the Board of Directors is made up of just 2 people.
But now you are getting into the realm of control vs ownership. The federal reserve is as fucked up as the US government is; its all part of a larger system. What I'm saying is that no large group is controlling that system, rather it is the super wealthy .01% that has personal interests and gains out of that system. It isnt "The Jews" or "The Masons", it is individuals that happen to be part of a group. That means nothing.
As the saying goes "Hitler had a moustache, but his moustache didn't make him evil".
2) Crabs? WTF
5) American Turkish PAC
6) 20,000 Lobbyist including Foreign Agents
7) US Elite Families, Rockefellers, Fords, Carnegies, ... but what about their Acolites... Kissinger, Zbrinski
Obviously we are going to leave out big power players without a complete list of wealthy, powerful, political, and the Lobbyists & Think Tanks which would include those from Europe.
What you don't think the US 2 Party System is Real do you? You think Ds or Rs are to blame?
Status Quo, Newfag. Take it from a Newfag. You can vote, but you get Status Quo.
You can look us the US Congress & President too and see the documentation on them.
But the History and Background don't explain the Military Industrial Complex or DHS or Open Borders or Covert Military Action for Regime Change in Democratic Governments around the world done by US Agencies.
Where do you see real evidence of why we went to WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Iraq? Killed Civilians in Panama?
History is written & Controlled by the Winners or the Wealthy.
Yeah, we have to be careful about stereo types.
The Masons are just typical of US Citizens that don't know our history and believe all the crap told them about patriotism and our history
WWI was easy, American ships kept getting sunk in crossfire so America went to war.
WWII roosevelt passed a mandate saying that America was neutral unless attacked, which is what happened.
Vietnam was a shit war, America shouldn't have gotten involved. Was based on shit intelligence similar to what happened in Iraq.
What is the Nature of Power?
Not an expert myself... but if masons collect money each month like a church... they have the same power of a church.
Churches have been very influential and powerful as we know from Rome & the many Crusades.
Not sure I would say that Masons are just distracted from the true history going on around them... or that the intent was to distract them from politics and the increasing debt all around them... especially the US Government Debt & Household Debt...
But US Citizens are used. So are Masons.
And we are pretty naive about other cultures, religions, cliques, practices of foreigners to advance people like themselves in the same group.
Bankers need to be controlled and taken down. Maybe we should limit the Number of Lawyers & bankers in the USA.
We have laws piled on top of laws.
We have taxes piled on top of taxes.
The complexity is a system of systems, and a monster of monsters.
Every penny the grand lodges collect are accounted for. Lodge buildings need to be rented and maintained. The fees are so minimal it is laughable, if there is anything left over after handling the org permits and building rental/lease fees, it goes to charity. There are no salaries except for travel fees, secretarial processing fees, etc. if there is a organizational event.
So you Refuse to aknowledge Propaganda, its origin, its birth in USA, it's use in WWI.
If we were a nation based on freedom & justice and not on being a military empire... and not on foreign wars & foreign Resources... why would we go to fight in Europe when we wanted to Secede from Europe in the first place???
We took chances by making materiel for England and for the WWI Effort... we played into their hands with our ships. Seems like a plan to me. Pearl Harbor also seems like a plan in hindsight.
Propaganda played a big part and was a great leap forward at the time.
But stick to this question: Why would an Independent USA get involved in European Wars?
I have to admit that the Monroe Doctrine is like from 1827... this is also a kind of war policy. But I don't think the people of the USA really understand this history or know of it.
But contributing to Charity is control over money... they like many organizations raise money for charity... this money drive is a kind of power.
The Eagles raise money for charity as well... it is common. But today all organizations have mixed funding sources. Every little bit is important it seems... this gives power to the donating organizations or government entity
Like CIA on universities or Universities using state & federal funding.
Or Court Justices getting free seminars to keep up professional training credits... paid for by Industry that wants to influence them... and maybe conducted on a University campus.
The Iran contra affair and the BCCI were tied together because of the accounts that money was passed through them to be launderd. the accounts were also used to move money to the Taliban and to the foreign soldiers there called mujahideen headed by a guy named Osama Bin laden. The bank accounts were set up by CIA mainly to buy the release of the hostages in Lebanon. But since the Iranians had a lot of control of Hezbollah they started talking with them.A CIA op told ADM Poindexter about this and the word was transferred to LTC North to contact a guy named Ghorbanifar to see if they could help each other. Since the Iranians were engaged in a war with Iraq they needed weapons and since the weapons they had were old American stuff left over from the Shahs time a deal was brokered between them . There was a government in Central America, That had taken over by force. headed by Daniel Ortega the Sandinistas were a communist insurgency group that was now in charge of the government of Nicaragua. The contras were being funded by the US which was forbidden by the Boland Amendment. The contra armys were hiding in Honduras and Guatemala. So weapons were sold to the iranians via the accounts and Ghorbanifar to get money to fund anti communists in Central America. The Drug money came from Noriega in Panama and was not part of the package. He sent Cocaine to Florida and california to be sold to fund himself and the contras. The BCCI came under scrutiny because of their banking practices and the records were laid out and then there were Months of lying to congress. At this time I had accounts in the Banco Di Lavoro in Italy A car loan and household account. Although stationed in Italy at the time I was sent to Guatemala to act as advisor to the government of Guatemala for 4 months in1985 and when the news broke it was no surprise because several trainees were contra. Hope this helps
Clearly that was Trade. Clearly there were Risks to trade. Even if the US Government Funded... weren't there businesses in the War Department that were profiting off of the European War as always there are.
Weren't there Lobbying Force to get the US into War, and to get US to Purchase and contract for war materiel for Europe?? In fact the War Department Contracts were corrupt from the beginning... and Harry Truman was Roosevelt's man to try to eliminate or minimize Corruption in this War Contracting.
I forgot to mention False Flags in the Above on Propaganda... it should fit in there also.
Why not the Rosticrucians?
You have the Shriners which I hear is like the Elite of the Masons.
I knew a guy. You have to memorize stuff to get your levels... might remind you of skull & bones or some college fraternity stuff.
Lots of universities have secret societies... just like the Skull & Bones... but they are not as well known. Those people at Cornell or Yale or Harvard or whatever seem to fill out lots of government positions.
Free Masons are just a fratnernal brotherhood, admission for me was through my father. My grandfather, uncle, and father are free masons just like I am. Grandfather before he passed was a 31st degree mason.
You did a better job than I would have if I put two hours into writing this.
There was a DEA Whistleblower who came upon drugs shipments in US Military Airplanes who reported the activity.. and he may have been the one to break the news to Congress about the movement of drugs. He ended up getting charged with something for retribution... something about he wanted to sell pamphlets or a gun at a Gun Show.
I think it ties into Freeway Ricky Ross who was a dealer in LA who was interviewed by a Reporter who ended up dead with 2 gun shots in the back of the head.
Probably true... USA has lots of unsung heros.
We have some great Christians, Great Buddhists, Great Muslims, Great Jews...
The best people are those that teach in my opinion. I'm not a teacher really. But maybe I aspire in that direction.
I would guess your family has done some nice things in their community and helped the towns in which they live.
Rosticrucians and Masons seem to have been part of this age where relics or artifacts were taken from the middle east. I think you can find stone tablets and cuneiform tablets in buildings belonging into masons & rosticrucians.
Guess what buddy?
We all don't know the world we live in and we don't know the country or government we live in.
Sorry to say it. you are correct about me in that. I try to read and search for data and history. But I have lived some history too. I'm not young any more.
As I stated in the Beginning... or almost did... Iran Contra & Nicaragua prove that the US Government has no intention of telling us what they are doing. This is true of all great world powers. We hope that people like members of Masons or Military or Churches will take a stand and tell the truth to a "Free Press" which will stand up and tell the truth.
But... no. Look at the Testimony on CIA Torture. Congress was responsible with their arm the GAO to control, monitor, and track the war efforts... It is not that they failed. Congress & our Presidents are lying to us. They have covert operations, false flags, propaganda, recruit fascists in Italy & Spain and recruit nazi experts from the Third Reich. And they recruited data from Japan on Secret Bio-weapons labs in China during WWII.
We love War. America is about Weapons, Covert Ops, and War... and taking Resources for our Corporations... we will even use innocent college kids in NGO Organizations to accomplish Corporate Agendas.
>The contra armys were hiding in Honduras and Guatemala.
US was Training, Funding & Arming Contras weren't we. We even flew them to a third country to do this in secret. Sort of like the Movie "Shooter" Right.
>. There was a government in Central America, That had taken over by force. headed by Daniel Ortega the Sandinistas were a communist insurgency group that was now in charge of the government of Nicaragua.
No. I don't think that is what happened.
Any Socialist Government in Central or South America gets labeled as Communist and the US Comes in and tried to take them out ala John Perkins "Economic Hitmen or Jackels"... or like in Chile where we assassinated the President.
The Monroe Doctrine is very important in all of this. the USA has depended on Produce and Labor for our Corporations. See also Smedley Butler "War is a Rackeet".
There was a news item this year where a temple was used for a party where there were men and women having sex. But the claim was that the temple was rented out for a party.
Is that true or not? Seems plausible.
BTW Plausible Deniablity is a phrase that is supposed to trace back to the CIA.
First Perkins has been shown to be a lying fool. And MGeneral Butler ( a personal hero of mine) died over 60 years ago. Butler was right. There was a conspiracy to overthrow Roosevelt in the 30s just as there is a conspiracy to discredit Obama today. The act of helping the poor by governmentt action has never been popular with corporations. They wish to make money and minimum wage laws and insurance regulations cost them their bottom line. Look at the Koch Brothers from Kansas. They have been involved in Kansas politics for years. And Kansas because of it may become the first US state to be sold on the courthouse steps because of their action. The ads paid for by them said taxrelief for you. But it wasn't really for you unless you were incorporated. Corporations pay no state taxes in Kansas. Now they want the rest of the US to follow suit. If corporations don't pay taxes they make big bank. And the middle class pay all the taxes. The warlike nature of people is not a concern to me. The need for a strong military is good for America and American business. I would rather they took it from others than from us.
I can't remember the best book, but I saw one in the book store which might have dealt with symbolism or traditions....
The major books which followed include , Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians (1937), and Masonic Orders of Fraternity ( 1950).
they will kill your family and give you money, and then you work like a shark with no family, but a lot of money, you travel around the world and do all the things that money can do, and them you die when you can't work anymore with a desease that cience can't cure. THE END
God is not real.
I understand the National Archive was relieved of the burden of the Documents about the Coup attempted under the FDR admin.
Good Response I think I learned something about Kansas.
Not sure Perkins has been shown a fool, but I don't read as much as others do.
Of course we don't have a free press really. Anyway we are a right wing country that supports capitalism with all it's faults so... Joh Perkins coming out big time against IMF/WB, US Government, US Corporate Interests overseas, European Corporate Interests... easy to see Perkins would be a target.
Hard to see people being honest with themselves by blaming Obama or just Democrats or just Republicans.
But we all should appreciate a good base of Business Sense, common sense, conservative basics... Personally I like Social Security & Medicare, but the Health System is too complex and expensive... but it is like the 700 lb Guerrilla that no one takes serious.
USA needs more Honesty to deal with it's shadow side of expensive corrupt government and the lies about wars.
Manly Palmer Hall (March 18, 1901 – August 29, 1990) was a Canadian-born author and mystic. He is perhaps most famous for his work The Secret Teachings of All Ages: An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy, which is widely regarded as his magnum opus, and which he published at the age of 25 (or 27, 1928)
He has been widely recognized as a leading scholar in the fields of religion, mythology, mysticism, and the occult.
Carl Jung, when writing Psychology and Alchemy, borrowed material from Hall’s private collection.
They are a society of Men who's goal is to better themselves by promoting social well fare, tolerance, and Esoteric works.
I am a 32nd Degree Mason in Florida and it is a great organization.
The acts of war will never be out in the open. Too ugly for most people to be aware of.
One of the reasons i like General Butler is that he was also in the Phillipines fighting insurgents in the 1900s. To day the American soldiers are still fighting the same people from the same reasons as today the same as when I was there in the early late 70s. The Moros of 1902 became the NPA in the 70s and the MILF of today. War is a reality of human nature.
Now some people fight for freedom or so they say but it really is the fight to control more money or power. No different than the US. We just need to become a bit more socialist to hold our corporations in check.
From above: Logic/Philosophy, Charity, Fraternity.
USA needs more study in Philosophy... and we all need Fraternity and charity helps with our humanity and service as a selfless act.
Some of us may not feel we are still "saveable" that we can't chose Fraternity in an organization... But somehow we have to chose a better future, believe in ourselves, and chose to say "yes" to life and new possibilities.
So maybe I get that now.
Also not only are many in the military Masons, but you could be a kind of outsider if you hold yourself back from join the Masons in certain places or industries or work or communities.
I'm not a mason, but have been in place where many were and also there was an "Eastern Star".
Aren't the Shriners the most visible and most extravagant kind of Masons?
Agree. Everything we do is capitalist. We go to get medical work money goes to investors or insurance or providers. Nothing is free, so often government is paying or making payments that go directly to corporations.
Fraud, Waste, Abuse... how much is there? How can we check the flow of waste?
Are there still checks and balances? I'm not sure. But the internet helps. Alternative Media helps. Watchdog groups help. Auditing Helps.
This guy's probably gone, but, for anyone else who is a sincerely good person and a Mason...
How do you feel about the rituals and "esoteric" and "mystic" symbolism? Do you really think that's necessary for the organization? Do you really think that has anything to do with being a "moral" person?
Wont go into specifics on what anything is, but I feel that moral lessons in general require symbolism in order to relate the moral to real life.
Instead of saying to someone "be happier", you would say something like "No matter how far our faces travel to the West, the signs of change will come if you but look to the East"; and then make a whole backstory behind that.
If you can visualize something, even if the symbols being used are not real or couldn't physically happen, it is much easier to understand the lesson.
Does the Mason's Blackball people that seem to have poor character?
I would expect that ostracism is just part of life after all...
Maybe you have to be recommended or nominated to the Masons, but you would be subject to some scrutiny (background check, Police Check), and you could be blackballed by some member???
These days anyone can type your name in a computer and pay a fee for personal data.
I wouldn't call it blackballing, but yes. Just like a company can choose not to hire you if they find out you have poor character, Freemasonry is a private organization that can choose who its members are based on suspicions of poor character.
Anyone know of any freemason lodges in the Vancouver area in Canada. I can't find any on the internet. I have only seen some buildings with the symbols but apparently they are just historical and the masons don't use them anymore.
Look at that link. it literally tells you to click "contact us" within that article to ask about joining the lodge in vancouver. Thats a direct link to the vancouver lodge to ask questions. There won't be many lodges anywhere that will let you just show up without letting them know you are coming.
Masons say "You get out of Freemasonry what you put in". There are always new things to learn and read and discuss, you just try to understand as much as you can and ask questions about the things you dont.
It doesnt work like that. It would be impossible to explain - but what you asked is kind of like "Can you go against the popular opinion in your philosophy class on a certain topic" except the study is done privately not with a class. So, could you go against your own opinion on what you think? That question doesn't make sense.
they fund 4chan and whack off to lolis on even nights...
they mod and janitor mlp on the odd nights....
in the morning they peel their semen adhered silk sheets off their bodies as their alarm clocks blare out huey louis and the news or phil collins..
then they go to their jobs in murders and executions....i mean...mergers and acquisitions...
I heard that Sir Francis Bacon Was a Mason and instrumental in sending knowledge and Masons to Form the USA or America... Seems he might have had a Think Tank. Smart guy they say.
I think it was in a Bill Still Video.
Would Masons consider the Moral hazard in Banking and the Federal Reserve... and the Financial ratings that led to the 2008-2009 Global Financial Crash.
I mean like End the FED, Audit the FED.
And end the monopoly of Private Banks, TBTF Banks on Credit & Money... expecially since in a recessession they don't extend credit and invest in capital equipment or new factories.
Where as we have seen Bank of North Dakota serve the community as normal even after 2008 Crash.
But we all have personal interests. Masons might be bankers and investors and involved in the markets.
Those are massive questions and situations that contain many many many different moral arguments. It isnt a black or white moral issue - nothing in business or politics ever is.
You are thinking much too broadly on the types of moral teachings that come out of Freemasonry. They are more specific, more personal. You would have to combine tons of different moral lessons along with logistical information in order to make a decision, and even then it wouldn't be black and white.
You aren't evaluated on your opinions, you are evaluated on your actions and general beliefs (there are good men, good men can be developed, etc).
It is rare for someone to be "kicked out". They are evaluated before even being accepted into Freemasonry. Many times they visit your house, sit with you for coffee and talk several times etc. You don't ask to join and join the same day with nobody knowing who you are.