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>>564971774 Oh God no. Numbers don't mean shit when you're facing superior military technology and strategy. >implying the Chinese could invade US soil They'd be luck to reach the shore, by boat or aircraft
Prior to 1990 it would've been United States hands down, but today the United States produces almost nothing of value and it's people and government are lazy, corrupt and worthless. While China produces virtually everything electronic, military and industrial. All China would need to do is cut off exports to the U.S. and the U.S. regime would surrender to them in less than a year. I could also say the same thing about the E.U. as with the exception of Germany the Europoors are just as worthless as the U.S.
The "conventional war" limitation is almost ridiculously unrealistic, since the whole of the war would swing on which and how the unconventional non-public weapons came into action.
In a protracted war, the US would lose close to half of their material goods - since practically everything is made in China, including all the phones and computers, most boots, etc. etc.
Also, China would be able to mobilize for a protracted war more effectively; higher manpower, lower military to GDP ratio, The US would have to be effective in less than a month to win for logistics reasons.
I would even go so far as to say that if China were able to take out aircraft carrier groups with what they have, they'd have a serious advantage.
>>564973939 I don't know about that - you're implying that variables never change. The only sure thing in life is that everything always changes. China's economy would get hurt by us not buying all their bullshit Wal-Mart trinkets anymore, and Americans of all races and ages when whipped into a fervor can accomplish great things when faced with a common enemy. Just look at 9/11 - we started two fucking giant wars over that! Idk man
china, all china has to do is cut off export to the US since nothing is made in America. Plus china has the backing of Russia and all of the enemies that the USA created themselves. the usa relays on allies before doing anything instead of growing a pair and go at it alone.
>>564973939 According to US law all essential materials must be obtainable domestically in case of events like this.
Within a year the states would either: 1. Import from somewhere other than china, effectively fucking china over after the war was over (why would they go back to china?) 2. Boost the US domestic economy, allowing them more self sufficiency.
This isn't to say that the US wouldn't take an economic hit, but china would have to deal with all of NATO, not just the US. Western nations are all pretty well in bed with eachother.
>>564975091 >>564974974 To add. The western nations wouldn't have to invade china. Russia wouldn't back them either for this reason.
Both china and Russia are heavily dependent on importing food. With the US and Western European navy being the best in the world, a blockade of imports into china would starve them out. Russia wouldn't risk a blockade and would move for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict so that they wouldn't get sucked into the starving fuck fest.
Hint: the US and Brazil are the too exporters of food to china and Russia. Blocking exports from Brazil to china wouldn't be that hard.
>>564975806 Also this. China doesn't have the logistic capabilities to enforce their military outside of their borders (arguably they can't even into logistics to project military force effectively inside their entire borders)
>>564975850 on top of that china imports a really stupid amount of fuel. America may seem like it does the same but we actually produce almost half our requirement, and alot of the rest is from canada. You cut china off from the middle east, they're royally fucked.
America has the capability of making it's own stuff, we buy from china because it's cheap. China's got no option on fuel
>>564976347 The us is also currently working on synthetic rare metal replacements. We usually buy them from china because they have a shit ton, but china has been hording it for future use, causing the states and Western Europe to get pissed off and start looking for alternatives.
>>564971774 China has the numbers, but they would bring in North Korea and Russia too, probably. US would have Canada, Taiwan, Japan, India, and South Korea, not to mention the hundreds of millions in China, NK and Russia who would rebel against them. The EU might even get in on that on Russia at least. We'd have more numbers in pretty much every theater, and all the countries you'd want at your back would be with North America. Lol first world war with the Germans on the winning team. If you're really gunna get simple, and it's a 1v1 irl here bud then I'm still going with the US. China would rebel, and the US has a much larger navy and airforce. China has one aircraft carrier, the US has something like 7-8 with more being built.
tl;dr US wins every time, with nukes, airforce, navy or w.e
>>564976183 pretty much. They've got a massive army on paper but next to no force projection ability.
meanwhile the US has the logistics capability to go from full on peace mode to "FUCK YOU TALIBAN" in less than 2 months. not to mention in general war, we're got a bit of a trump card. subs that can carry 180+ cruise missile each. we've got almost 20 Ohios alone. tens of thousands of tomahawks all streming in at every chinese factory, military base, major high way, pipeline, ect. They might stop some, but good luck stopping all.
It really is no contest. The US military has such a clear dominance on military technology, education, and capabilities it's not even funny. The US is responsible for 41% of global military expenditures. That's right the US is responsible for almost half of the world's military expenditures. This is complemented by the US's air and naval forces. Speaking of which: The US has the most aircraft carriers in the world BY FAR at 10. The US has as many carriers in service as the rest of the world. Think of each one as a mobile air force base. These are all Nimitz-class carriers, meaning they are a class of super-carriers that can hold about 90 planes each, travel at around 30 knots, and house 2 nuclear reactors for propulsion. These motherfuckers can go over 20 years without refueling! That means the US has 10 mobile air force bases that essentially never rests. The US is the undisputed Queen Bitch of the seas. And that's only the carriers. Globally, there are 28 Cruisers and 150 Destroyers. The US owns 22 of those Cruisers and 62 of those Destroyers. The US has the biggest air force, bar none. The US holds 71 of 134 total nuclear powered submarines in the world. Out of these 71, 18 are Ohio-class. These are capable of holding 24 Trident SLBM missiles that each hold up to 8 MIRV nuclear warheads. Each of these MIRV warheads hold a firepower of 100 kilotons of TNT. That means each of these subs could hold 24 missiles that can each separate into 8 nuclear warheads, totaling 192 warheads, each with a range of 4,600 miles. That means a sub off of NYC could hit Anchorage. You read that right. We essentially have 18 mobile nuclear launch bases that can move underwater. Say there is knowledge of an impending nuclear attack by China. Before they were even done fueling, I am sure the US would have a few subs in the area and be capable of independently targeting each major city and military site in China and nuking them. If they wanted to.
U.S for sure. We won against the British back when they were the #1 undisputed world superpower simply because we were fighting on our own soil. We know the land - they don't. In addition, morale goes way up when you're fighting on you're home turf, and morale goes down when you're fighting on foreign soil. That is, if they even managed to reach us. The U.S is also a country which lives off of war. Production goes way way up in the U.S in times of war, and what goods we do already produce here are made easier by machinery. We could easily step up production significantly. China on the other hand is manual labor. If they wanted more soldiers they would have to give up producing things, as they would be unable to since the human element wouldn't be there. Even more to the point, a lot of the companies than do business over there are American, and they would cease production over there, bringing it to the U.S which would further expand our own production. The U.S is also wealthier than China, both as a government and even more so we as individuals; because of this we would be able to purchase things from our allies. Allies: Due to the recent years of China stepping away from Communism and more towards a free market economy, they are in an awkward position in regards to allies. Communists may not want to back them up since they aren't really entirely communist anymore, which the U.S is BFFs with other world superpowers such as Germany, Britain, and France to name a few. The only communist superpowers would be Russia and from a military standpoint, North Korea. Also, since China was stated to be the aggressor, NATO would step in as something such as China declaring war on the U.S is just asking for WW3 - something which NATO was literally founded to prevent, and thus all of NATO would back the U.S up.
All of this isn't even considering just how many people would rebel in China due to how many people are already currently unhappy there.
Was going to write a long post about how this isn't a contest, but then I decided its fruitless as idiots like OP still wonder if there's a nation in the world that can stand against the U.S.A. in a military engagement.
>>564971774 Why make these silly threads, no one can fucking touch the USA in a war. I respect China's massive population and Russia's mountain of nukes but the USA will mindfuck anyone from all angles
>>564976857 I actually thought about this too. I kinda don't put it past my government to think "why use ours when we can use theirs?" Suck up as much oil as possible (sure going into debt for now) while also stockpiling some of the said oil (us reserves are pretty high right now).
Then when Middle East starts running out of oil and everyone is searching or someone to buy from, the US comes out of nowhere "oh hai guise. We just happen to open up all these underground reserves, we will happily sell it to you, but it's gonna cost triple what everyone charged us"
With China being the aggressor, they're at a severe disadvantage. As >>564975850 said, the U.S. has one of, if not the most terrifying navies in the world. China has a single aircraft carrier. America has 10. Modern day naval conflict is less about actual ship to ship bombardment, why even get within bombardment range when you can destroy them with aircraft? Speaking of which, China has approximately 650 naval aircraft, the U.S. has over 3,700. Since China has to cross the breadth of the Pacific to even attack the U.S., naval power would likely be the most major factor in this war. tl;dr- U.S navy #1
What the fuck is that? If and when the US of A is attacked, we will retaliate with forces you've literally never witnessed. If American soil is in jeopardy you better fucking believe that whoever is running this crumbling country, at the time, is going to open the floodgates on our aggressor.
>>564976894 Try 11 carriers each holding ~90 aircraft. By comparrison the next closest is Britain's 2 which hold something like 50. China has 1 holding like 15 planes. And USA has 2 carriers stationed in the south pacific right now.
>>564977985 Why would they? Russia is right in chinese borders. They could either sit back and wait it out and reap the economic benefits of a fucked over china. Or they could "help" the US and just ass fuck china from the start and control large swaths of land and population.
In all honesty I think Russia would gain a lot from china getting fucked over, compared to the US.
>>564978667 >Why would they? Russia is right in chinese borders. They could either sit back and wait it out and reap the economic benefits of a fucked over china. Or they could "help" the US and just ass fuck china from the start and control large swaths of land and population.
Agreed. The reason that Russia and China are allies today is to have a chance against the US. It's a marriage of convenience, not love.
>>564976025 Actually, no. Intercepting missiles is actually incredibly difficult. Think about it this way: A plane crashes. It can take weeks to find out where, if the wreck is even found at all. If we can't track planes that are actively broadcasting and TRYING to be tracked, how well do you think that we can track a fucking missile? Even if we were to track them, slight changes in trajectory can make it extremely difficult to intercept. Even when facing only a single missile, our intercept rate is only supposed to be like 60%. If many missiles were fired we'd be fucked.
>>564978606 Military's got stock piles, and we've got a really stupid number of petro-engineers. we'd ration fuel for awhile and probably call in some favors with Canada, but we'd have that shit up and running.
Lmao if anyone could pull off a mainland invasion in America and hold onto it I would be really impressed. Counter insurgency would be fucking nuts. I know atleast 20 guys that would just go into fields slash caves and shoot chinks all day long with there deer rifle. The effects of a 30.06 soft point hiting you would be devistating
Ever since 9/11 that sort of thing has been watched even more anally. even if they got off some strikes, every other place would be put on alert. if a few more went down the guard'd be all over it, 24/7
>>564979056 Not to say that the U.S. has any idea how to track and destroy ICBMs mid-flight, but many of your assumptions are incorrect. The operational differences between planes and missiles are widespread, and for many reasons it would be easier to track said-missiles. Reliably shooting (using the term "shooting" loosely) is another matter.
>>564979587 Refer to >>564979579 Almost all refineries aren't working at 100% capacity anyways. They take out a few and the others pick up the slack and make extra cash quickly.
Then while they are picking up the slack, the others are repaired. Guards are upped and then the rest of the world is pissed off because the US is a top exporter or gasoline, if we nee it more at home for a bit. That means everyone else gets to suffer.
We would be sent into a state similiar to fallout. If america goes to war with china. The blacks, and the, jews would uprise againt 'merica and become, infidels. Yellow people are smart, atleast thats what my mommysister tells me, i say, nuke, islam, into, africa.
1.Lots of talk about aircraft carriers, but the true power of the US is its submarines. If they brought all 72 to bear on China it would be game over. 2. The carriers each have a carrier strike group with them with them so when you talking a shitload of warships. 3.Assad shit his pants when the US had 5 destroyers aiming at him. The US has 62 ready. Not even close.
>>564973939 This is the dumbest statement made thus far. USA's defense/weapon contractors still create the most innovate and important components of our military technology. We just import the rest from china because it's cheaper. If a war with China were to occur we could produce what we need or import from different allied nations. Japan? South Korea? Germany? France? Many options!
>>564980645 No, people think everything we buy is made of Chinese plastic. Surprise, we are the world leaders in manufacturing. Also education. Also most other shit. That's why everyone talks shit constantly.
I could have been born anywhere, and statistically speaking, it's more likely for a baby to be born in Africa, Middle East, Asia etc...
I had no idea what the fuck was going on when I was a baby, but now that I'm older, I realize how lucky I actually am, to of been born in the greatest country in the world out of all the places I COULD have been born. Most of the people that condemn america are doing it out of jealousy, and rightfully so. America is my home and I can't think of a good reason I'd ever want to leave it.
>>564971774 USA >China somehow overcomes the far superior technology and training of the US army and invades mainland US >tens of thousands of citizens armed to the teeth using guerrilla warfare greet them No matter how you look at it, China would lose. Their only advantage is in numbers, and even then the gap isn't all that big.
>>564973939 >The United States produces almost nothing of value Why is the US still one of the biggest industrial countries in the world then? We don't export as much as China, but we export oil, cars, military goods, grain, electronics.
>>564971774 China would nevee engage the US in a conventional war. They would launch a surprise attack with nuckear missiles against all US military bases in the region, and try to take out the 7th fleet and Western sea board. Then they might send troops for the midwest and East Coast, but I doubt they'd have much interest in invading.
>>564971774 The winner is whoever doesn't attack. Both countries are separated by a giant fucking moat, and both have huge navies with a ton of air force. If one crossed the ocean, it would get blown out. So neither really.
>>564974372 >China would be able to mobilize for a protracted war more effectively
No. just no. the United States has military bases all over the world, and two of its closest allies, South Korea and Japan (who would be more than willing to stage American attacks on China) are very close to China. not to mention the naval power on station at all times between Taiwan and PRC. Where could China possibly have forces close to America? who of America's neighbors would be willing to stage China's forces? The united States can mobilize a huge amount of power, be it mechanical, man, or munition, anywhere in the world in 72 hours if not 48. China would be on the defensive before you could say "conscription". Are you even aware of WWII? How many military bases do you think are left over from the decisive victory in the Pacific Campaign? Between Eastern Russia, North Korea, and China itself, do you *really* think that america doesn't already have significant standing forces on station? Not to mention the crippling inferiority of the Chinese Air Force. And guess what? The number two Air Force in the world is the US Navy. Take a stab at number one.
China would be scrambling to recover within weeks. No contest. The OP says one on one, so I say no contest. other nations involved, Korea could complicate things for the US, but NATO would be a quick stick in the ass for China.
Some of you guys just don't understand how big our military is compared to the world's.
We have 8 super aircraft carriers which can run for 25 years with no refuel or anything and possibly up to 50 years, besides shit for food and a few other supplies for the crew.
The entirety of the EU has 1.
Most countries have like 60-70 tanks, America has 6,000-9,000 tanks with depleted uranium SHELLS AND ARMOR. Steel penetrators would barely scratch our tanks. Meanwhile, our shells would go through just about everything because DU is so fucking dense it's unreal
We have one of the largest Air Forces with the best fighter in the world, the F22. We kept the tooling they were built on in case we ever needed to restart production on them.
Not to mention the sheer amount of people we have in the US. Our current military personnel make up ~1% of our population. If we had a conventional war against China going on, then we could raise it to a LOT more with a draft.
>>564971774 china cant logistically get close enough to invade the US. their only carrier is a POS soviet handmedown they retrofitted, an you all know how shitty their crap is. their j20 '5th gen' fighter propaganda video had to use a scene cut from top gun.
>>564973004 they would never drop troops on that soil. It would be pointless. You could send the whole fucken corps and not make a dent. The US would just drop a few nukes and tell them to sit the fuck down.
>War without limits >limits it to conventional war
the US wouldn't be able to be invaded by the PLA, and the US wouldn't be able to hold chinese territory if it invaded.
Stalemate, with greater Chinese losses than American.
The American Navy and Air Force is by far superior to what China has, they'd have no ability to get the PLA to the US.
If Nukes are on the table, then it's a decisive victory for the US, as the Chinese have very dated missiles that use liquid fuel (take an hour to fuel them, enough time that we could destroy their silos before they're ready), and only 1 type of missile capable of hitting mainland US, no SLBM's, and and a "no first use" policy, giving the US the advantage of a first strike, the first strike targeting their air bases and silos, wiping out almost all of their capability to strike back.
A total war without limitations would see China destroyed.
China has a large military and all but lacks the (here comes some CNN terminology I heard once) the "Force Projection" capability the US has been perfecting for 60 years. The US could park 2/3rds of the worlds air force off its shore and demolish every military base and government building in 48 hours, Take 50% casualty's and still be winning.
If the US literally had a massive fleet of millions of angry chinamen crossing the pacific I have no doubts they would not just use a tactical nuclear weapon on the fleet if they felt threatened.
Right now china is looking towards building a military that can like the US put a large fighting force anywhere on the planet. In 20 years china is gonna be fucking problematic.
No one can fuck with the US Marines on the ground. The term "Devil Dogs" came from their enemies The US Navy knows every square inch of the planet, has every weapon you can imagine even railguns, sonic weapons fucking lasers and shit and also occupies every square inch of the planet The US Air Force has shit the rest of the world is hoping to have in 20 years. The US Army is a little bit of everything above Plus the NSA keeps tabs on the whole goddamn planet. Semper
Burgertopia has enough nuclear arms to send the world into a radiated ice age. If shot got real we would just nuke them.
When the USA deploys on soil they won't nuke it. If a country sends a actual attack to US soil i dont think you understand what they would do. They moment china hit the mainland with a missle, wait, the moment china was within 100 miles of the US shore with hostile intentions im pretty sure a good 5th of china would be uninhabitable.
The united states could take on Russia and China at the same time and walk away in better shape then it is right now.
The US gov is waiting for the day they get attacked by another nation so they could completely shut them the fuck down and take all the resources.
>>564991153 Excelt that that is literally Chinese military doctrine for serious threats from the United States. They know they can't withstand a conventional war militarily or economically, so they use the one thing they do have, their missile program, to use overwhelming nuclear force to win the war before it even really begins. If you think I'm kidding look here: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF160/CF160.ch6.pdf And here http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/05/07/world-war-iii-has-already-been-lost-and-the-chinese-are-in-the-process-of-occupying-amerika-chinese-emp-weapons-part-three/
>>564995667 So you seriously think the US doesn't have any ssbns parked out by Russia right now? You think the US really doesn't have a way to detect any subs? Also I know every coastal city would be fucked, that's why I said the war would be over in less than 20 minutes. Nobody wins when ballistic missiles are involved.
Also i dont think you realise just how hard china has got the rest of the world by the balls fuckin everything says "made in china" if war broke out between us and them, we would be crippled before the first shot was fired they make shit for the entire planet,i wonder just how much they could churn out just for themselves for war machines
>>564996301 the chinks are used to theiir cities being fucked lazy americans not so much america loses because the chinks will fight through nuclear winter americans are too soft and will crumble once they are hit
>>564996670 haha yeah right, who do you think the western world is in debt to right now... what do you think we pay them with, they are self sufficient, they make everything they need and sell the surplus, our idiot leaders thought it would be a good idea years ago to shut down our factories
>>564991726 This is a good post. What do you think about China attacking and over running America's close by foreign bases before they can fully mobilize, would south Korea be on its own for the first few days as it's so close to China and North Korea that they could be out of the fight before America could get its forces to aid in time?
Let's get the facts straight. Using only conventional weaponry as stated by OP.
China has the worlds largest army, but it does not have the logistical capability of invading and holding the U.S. China is vastly weaker from a naval point of view. You have to be able to transport all of those invasion troops by water, and supply them. So there is the bottleneck to their invasion strength.
The same can be said about the U.S - however their bottleneck comes in to play with sheer man-power.
Anyone can invade a country, holding your ground or trying to control it is another matter.
The U.S would win the preemptive conventional warfare strike on their own soil. The U.S lacking man-power would be unable to invade and hold any land. It would come down to use the Air Force and Navy to project their power in-land from the U.S and the coastal regions of China.
It's just a hop and a skip from there to incite rebellion in China due to the instability of their civilian population. More so with no food coming from overseas.
Using unconventional weapons, both countries would annihilate themselves, and probably the rest of the world in short order.
As per everyone talking about using nuclear weaponry to target directly at valueable land targets (Bases, manufacturing, power, water.. etc ) - It would be highly unlikely. It would probably be more likely for them to be used as EMP devices in the upper atmosphere.
Also there are weapons that are far more destructive then thermonuclear available for both sides.
>>564973939 I don't remember the exact numbers, but the fact is that Steve Jobs chose China to reduce per-unit production costs by only 16 bucks or some small number like that on their products. Sure, 16 bucks in the millions is a big difference, but so is outsourcing jobs. That one picture going around the internet on how "Iphone prices would be in the thousands of dollars if made in America!" is pure bullshit/Apple PR.
>>565001548 No. A neutron bomb would be worse than a nuke, because at least with a nuke the ground zero will be at least semi-habitable after a century. Neutron bombs are designed to emit 10x the radiation, completely fucking everything up.
>>564997000 The United States government owes China about 11% of the national debt, with the entirety of Europe closing in at 8%. 1% goes to the rest of the world. You don't even want to know who the 80% belongs to.
Correct - The current process for refinement is so high now that the thermonuclear warheads are no where near as dirty as they used to be but the initial yields are much higher. As per it being habitable it's possible to get by a few weeks after the blast, just avoid the wind direction of the initial fallout cloud. The "hot" particles will be completely settled by then for the most part. The land and water will be contaminated in the surrounding area and in the direction of the cloud. Also there is a small window (30min-3hr) to try and avoid the fallout after the initial blast assuming your survive the fireball (most of the energy) and shock wave.
***NOTICE*** The CIA would like to remind American posters not to discuss equipment, tactics, or doctrine with agents posting from the People's Republic of China. Any breaches of national security will be investigated and any persons responsible for divulging such information will be held accountable for their actions.
This same exact topic is posted here multiple times per week in an attempt to phish for information and ideas, as well as to ascertain the general awareness of the capabilities of the PRC. By continuing this discussion, you are potentially aiding an entity that holds in contempt virtually all of the ideals you cherish as citizens of the United States.
>>564985342 The joke is that you think this is a joke. Have you not read the thread? My fellow citizens piss me of sometimes, but the US is a pretty kick ass place to live. At least I'm not ding of Ebola in some shithole in Africa or actually worried about the prospect of some other country invading mine
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