What are the major warning signs of a McDojo? There's a place conveniently near me that seems pretty good, except for that they only full contact spar once or twice a month, which is a huge negative. How do you tell whether a school will be helpful to you or not?
>except for that they only full contact spar once or twice a month
One of the benefits of my childhood was having friends that had martial arts backgrounds. I would spar with these friends, though, some more often than others.
With my past experience, this is a safe checklist on what to look out for:
>If the school trains Tae Kwon Do, is it under the American Taekwondo Association (ATA)?
>Is the instructor considered a "master" and lists their plethora of accolades first and foremost on their advertising?
>Is the instructor, if applicable, a 4th dan or below?
>Is the belt-ranking system, if applicable, chalk-full of "High-X" and "Camouflage", "Cyan" or the like styled belts?
>Is it possible to achieve black belt, if applicable, in under three years?
>Does the school not have a training regiment, in class or set aside, strictly for tournaments, sparring or other competitive elements?
>Is there a "locked-in" contract mandatory for enrollment anywhere between 3 months - 6 months or one year?
>Are there "sales bundles" or "discounted sales" prices?
>Do lessons cost more than $85 per month?
>Are classes only available at specific times roughly once a day, limited only to once to three times a week (with extra classes costing extra)?
>Does the initial purchase of the uniform cost $45 or more?
>Are the majority of students adolescents or children? Do these children have belts higher than what would be considered an "advanced novice" (blue belt in WTF TKD, for instance)?
>How many students have left the studio after achieving the equivilant of first dan?
>If you are not physically fit, were you not at least near-nauseated from a day considered rigorous, if you have visited the studio for a trial class?
>Do the students have particular badges and awards applied to their uniforms for particular tasks such as "star student", attending a tournament, coming to class X times, etc?
>Does the school offer auxiliary services like a summer camp, after-school activities, birthday celebrations or the like?
>Are there special classes for weapons practice, regardless of class time and experience?
Not all of these are tried-and-true examples of what one would consider a "McDojo", but if you find yourself tallying up a good handful of these, then you might want to reconsider - regardless if it's in choice of a martial arts school or another life decision, if you find yourself asking too many questions about it, you may not be looking where you should. As someone who has trained in Tae Kwon Do for seven years, I've seen quite the handful of pay-your-way-to-black-belt schools, having even been a participant in them for a brief time myself (regretfully). It takes a while to really get to understand what you're looking for, but hopefully these sort of questions will help you look for what you desire in a martial art. Regardless of all this though, if you are absolutely new to the world of self-defense, physical activity and/or the martial arts, do not hesitate to try something that grabs your attention. The most important part about getting into this strange, new world is getting your feet wet even if it means in muckier waters. In the grand scheme of things, martial arts (here in the west, at least) are still relatively young, chiefly gaining popularity from as early as 1960 (only 50 some odd years ago, barely even the time to sire a second generation of children). One reoccurring theme in martial arts, I feel, is the process of trying over and over again to attain perfection in what you're looking for, whether it be finding the right footing or finding the right school.
In response to your specific statement about the studio you're interested in, if sparring is so few and far between in classes, then it does not seem competitive, and if it doesn't seem competitive, it may have a fairly laxed atmosphere when it comes to training. If it's fairly laxed, it more than likely won't be particularly rigorous or thorough. Helpful though? To a newcomer of the arts? Certainly open, surely.
Does it teach "ninjutsu" or relates itself with ninjas in any way, shape, or form? McDojo.
Does it have a tiger or dragon in the logo? McDojo.
Does it teach "Karate," with no mention of any kind of particular school or style but just says "karate?" McDojo.
>Do lessons cost more than $85 per month?
I'd not use this one as an example. The primary cost of a gym is gym space, so it scales to real estate prices.
For me it would be a warning sign if a place charged LESS that $150 dollars a month.
>The primary cost of a gym is gym space, so it scales to real estate prices.
Ah, that's a very good caveat to mention. In my reference, I live in Georgia, namely the south, where buildings are relatively cheap but also small. Obviously if the school has more equipment and a larger space, it's certainly worth the more money.
Very interesting to hear that prices are more expensive abroad. Thanks for the note! How do you like it in comparison to classes back home? What's the overall atmosphere and experience like?
Unless you're living in a brownstone in NYC burgerstan is cheap as fuck. A 1 bedroom close to civilisation in sydney will run you 400-500 AUD/wk before utilities. Tokyo is much cheaper. My apartment is 710AUD/mo and I split it with my gf.
I do kudo here. It's 7500y (around 75usd)/mo for training 7 days a week. I got lucky though as even kyokushin is 110usd/mo near me.
This one guides pretty good
That's swell. Most of the items on that list are things I touched up on; I'm glad to see I actually might have a decent understanding of a good school! I feel a bit more confident now, thank you, Anon.
Pretty late but never mind, the Chinese guy misunderstood my question, talked to one of the girls after and they mostly focus on forms, kek
One guy did break his nose while I was there, so that was interesting.
This is helpful for future reference though, thanks.
>But how did you know?
He didn't know. He figured it out my learning from watching Case Closed.
I have the advantage of knowing your habits, my dear Cory.
When I noticed that you had exposed two vital pieces of identifying information, I consulted my records to find a matching pattern. As I perceived that the details you laid bare in this thread matched that of a previously documented "Cory Young", I cannot doubt that you are in fact one in the same.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
> its yet another Muh Mcdojo thread
You aspies are cancerous as fuck and something needs to be done about it
I literally pay 24 dollars for muay thai lessons
It's a really small place, the teacher is a retired taekwondo and muay thai fighter and got the papers and stuff to teach martial arts, is in a kinda dangerous neighbour but is worth it
Posted this in another thread but I don't think Doc Goblin saw it and this seems like a better thread for it.
This place seems close to me and it seems legit. Month 2 month contracts and they're Pedro Saur certified, plus they teach the KMA I know and love. I checked out the gym and it seems pretty dope, any red flags from the website? I'll probably start this month if it passes the /asp/ litmus test.
I'm no professional on KMA in the slightest, so my idea of how pricing and the like might be off, but $109 per month for unlimited classes, and that's 15% off? That seems a bit high, but maybe it's because of their staff size (is it really only two instructors?) and the accommodations they offer? That's what I can guess anyways. I always just worry about contracts and the like, especially if they're "X month minimum" or the like. I Google'd the price of their gis and holy hell, ranging from $150 to $205 for a Pedro Saur Signature Gi? For what purpose? That's obscene. As far as classes, their classes only go for an hour or so on average, unless you do the earliest class; that's not bad I suppose, but the spacing in time between classes same-day seems a bit harsh if you're trying to get in the bang for your buck outside of Tuesdays and Thursdays. Also, I don't see any sparring for Boxing and Kickboxing, like how their Moo Yea-Do (what is that?) class specifies.
On the positive, they offer a decent spread of classes to pick from and days in the week to do them. They seem to have a healthy amount of students for sure. It's also good to see they've a time for open-mat practice.
Honestly, the place feels a little gimmicky, but I mean heck, it really boils down to "Do you like it?" and "Are you getting what I'm paying for?" really. That's just my simple two cents. I'm sure someone else will hopefully have a more thorough opinion than myself.
Did see it, but I'm slow.
So the Korean stuff looks sketchy, even by Korean stuff standards, because the 'adult' class is 12 and up. I'm also a bit uncertain about the boxing and muay thai, because I can't find anything about their experience.
On the other hand, the BJJ looks solid, so if everything else is a grab bag, that's fine, at least you got options.
I'd absolutely sign up for this.
Oh, I'd also ask about the scheduling of some of these things. Boxing is at 7:30-8:30 on Tuesdays, and so is Kali. At at 6:30 they have both no-gi JJ, and Muay Thai.
Are they doing two classes at once or are they doubling it up and saying they're offering two things?
Alright so when my brother was younger he used to go to this local taekwondo place, I don't remember it well, but this really reeks of McDojo.
If he ever waned to pick it up he would have to start over right?
Site to his old school.
It seems he only had one school prior to this, back when he was a 6th dan, in New Jersey, so it's not as if he owns multiple, multiple schools. He teaches WTF Tae Kwon Do, which is a bit of a step up from ATA for sure. His about me section is humble in comparison to others I've seen.
However, oddly enough, he only seems to teach beginning students and children, and only one class specifically (of which isn't even an hour long). What strikes me odd is that he outlines what a first class would be like, from start to finish, but makes absolutely zero mention of forms; very, very odd. Additionally, he tries to get students to do jumping kicks on their first lesson? Not that a jumping double-front snap kick is particularly difficult, but the fact that he'd put something "flashy" in front of something else like a roundhouse or side-kick, which introduce the concepts of hip torque and pivoting of the foot, seems a big misguided, in lieu of a better way to describe it. He also seems to have quite a handful of young black belts - surely a student could be a good black belt if they were absolutely and ferociously dedicated in their study, but that's a farfetched possibility in my opinion. As I look through some of the pictures, I see he has a much larger class with belts upwards towards green and red, so he clearly doesn't only teach beginners, but the absolute size of his class versus him being the sole instructor seems odd.
Honestly, it does seem a bit McDojo from what I'm looking at. However, if he offers free trials, it won't hurt to get a look personally, right? For the longest time, I was basically hopping from school to school, trying them out and how I felt.
Also, regarding belt level and having to start over, it varies greatly. Did your friend previously train under the World Taekwondo Federation, and to what rank? Do they absolutely remember their kicks and forms fairly well? It's generally particular to what school, as some instructors will ask you to start from the beginning and some will let you resume from where you left off depending on skill level and how accurate you are to where you left off. Logically speaking, in a McDojo's mindset, if you want to make more money, you make the student start over. If you want a quick buck, you don't question them and throw them right in. Consider how heavily the instructor considers letting your friend resume where he left off. If I were him and someone were to show up at around blue or brown, I would absolutely make sure they were up to par, backwards and forwards, before I'd let them continue using the same belt.
Food for thought, though: The goal isn't to reach black belt; it's to master your understanding of the fundamentals. No amount of excess practice will make harm in perfecting your form, but being too quick to try and realize a "goal" of accomplishing black belt can do infinitely more harm than good. I do understand the frustration of having to start over from a higher-ranked belt, especially due to circumstance though.
Thank you for paraphrasing what I said, to an extent.
I suppose I should elaborate that, after some people may spend years and seem close to what what most people would consider "the end", being thrown back to have to spend double the time you've spent training can be daunting, if not discouraging. All belts genuinely signify is a catharsis - after finally putting in all that blood, sweat and tears, you've finally reached that infamous black belt. Yes, it doesn't explicitly matter, but you would be a stone-cold liar if you told me having to spend three or four more years training over content you were already familiar with wouldn't phase you in the slightest; it would be rather monotonous feeling. It would be the equivilant of making a child repeating the 3rd grade because they had to move to a new state.
I do stand by my statement in regards to extra reinforcement never being a bad thing, and students should relish having the opportunity to hone their skills, however, to novice marshal artists, confidence is very important, and seemingly "undoing" all of that work in the form of beginning from white belt again sometimes burns people out before they've truly understood what's more important. Only a veteran martial artist would be excited to begin anew, in their own art or in a new discipline.
I wouldn't because ethnic dances are a fucking waste of time. All that matters are results.
You stopped getting nailed by that dude who rekt you when you started? You've improved.
You got a new strip of dyed fabric and some new dance moves memorized? No one cares.
If a dojo advertises their kids lessons mostly on their website, how much of a warning sign is that? I mean, yeah, they have to make money, but still. I don't know how I feel when I see that they do birthday parties.
>I wouldn't because ethnic dances are a fucking waste of time.
I don't understand what you're saying here.
I suppose I should clarify that not all people approach martial arts strictly for their combative aspects; you can't quite measure someone success in regards to sparring if that's the case. Not that trying to practice martial arts without the combative aspect isn't a bit silly, but not everyone picks up a martial art to break people's teeth in.
But I get what you're saying: Let your skill determine your skill, not something superficial.
You're absolutely right - one initiative for kid-centric classes is for money, especially since so many parents are willing to shell out money into anything their child might be remotely interested in or might yield some sort of personal "accolade" in their life. It's not that teaching children is bad, that is, but rather, it's less time the instructor is spending teaching other things such as drills, sparring, forms, etc. If children's classes are the predominate classes, then obviously the atmosphere of the school is less oriented in producing professional martial artists and is more laxed than others.
Birthday parties is definitely line, sink and hook for McDojos though in most cases.
> content you're already familiar with
I assumed you were referring to kata.
If you were referring to basic techniques there is no point at which you can practicing them "monotonous". You can always improve. You think buakaw isn't smashing out his jabs and roundhouse hundreds of times a day?
I was referring to basic techniques and the like, and again, I wholeheartedly agree with the constant improvement in one's self. Unfortunately, new students more often than not mistake practice for monotony, especially in privileged societies like these days. Heck, I'm trying to teach some basics to someone and I've been trying to absolutely make sure I get my point across that this sort of thing doesn't magically happen over night.
>ethnic dances are a fucking waste of time.
> Unfortunately, new students more often than not mistake practice for monotony,
Practice and Kata, drills, what have you cannot help much to a point but to be monotonous. New students and old alike are at some point just going to have to suck it the fuck up.
>Heck, I'm trying to teach some basics to someone and I've been trying to absolutely make sure I get my point across that this sort of thing doesn't magically happen over night.
True, why practice a repetition is so important. Basics are frome where all other skills come. It's a base for how you git gud. If it looks like someone did it over night, it's only because they trained a lot and especially did not skimp on basics.
>"I'm good because I work at it - every day of my life since I could hold a stick."
was right as well
> You think buakaw isn't smashing out his jabs and roundhouse hundreds of times a day?
No matter who you are, you should never stop practicing the basics and hammering them out when you train.
I'm laughing infinitely more than I should right now, oh my God. Thank you so much for pointing that out.
Yep thats a mcdojo. Went to Gracie Barra and they only spar 2 times a week and only if your a 3 stripe white. Jiu Jitsu isn't 2 dimensional with the bullshit positional sparring they make you do were the other guy knows what you're going to do. Fucking hated that shit! Study Triangles for 10 hours and have to positional spar side control when I didn't know shit about that and look like a day one noob. Fuck I hate that shit. Trick is find a MMA place near you.
yes m8. sorry to see you're practising ding dong ching chong limp wrist style.
Nothing against them 2bh. They are good businessmen. Taking advantage of clueless manchildren, they probably make more money than legit teachers.
blah blah blah ROFL stfu you useless faggot...
you could barely lift your fat legs up off the floor in that video you posted.. and you're going on like you actually know something.
Less of the jerking off to anime girl kick.jpg and more push ups you fat fuck
AHAHA I was right on target then... still a fat fuck who can barely lift his feet of the floor and talking like hes a big shot hahaha..
Wierdly obsessed? Nah m8.. i just happened to come across your autism once more and had to point out what a faggot you are.
i dont know why you keep posting this ginger anime girl .. pic related
I bet you do the little kicks around your dojo and pretend you're the girl amirite..pahaaha..
Comedy gold. You're like chris chan but even less self aware.
next time, post your vid so people can see what kind of obese neckbeard is giving them "advice"
It was when I was a purple belt during a sparring session with me mumbling in the first part of it; I asked that people critique me and give me advice if I recorded it for them. I didn't do too well though, so it wasn't a particularly good reflection on exactly everything I needed practice on in general. It was back when everyone was doing that silly "kicking contest" thing. It's not anything exciting, but I'll post it if I ever find it again since >>965656 seems to enjoy his day most amusing himself thinking about me.
Also, >>965656, if you still have that unflattering picture of my face from the video with "this is what a weaboo looks like" or whatnot, please post it. I thought it was really funny but I can't find it unfortunately. Also polite sage for off-topic.
Pretty good, although I would quibble a bit where it mentions a lack of wrestling emphasis. Obviously, grappling is important to learn, but in a real self-defense situation it should be the last resort, and as such shouldn't be a martial arts school's primary focus. I guess I'd agree that no wrestling is bad, but if you're looking to defend yourself your better off with a year of standup than a year of rasslin' IMO.
He wont post rofl, he embarrassed himself enough the first time.
I deleted that pic coz i felt sorry for you 2bh m8.... :(
every time i saw it i thought.. this manchild's life is probably bad enough.. he doesn't need people bullying him on the internet
"I would actually humor you in posting that video you're talking about, but I forgot what I titled it"
hahaha your passive aggressive asspain couldn't be more real.
can you lift your legs up off the ground yet?
Keep posting that anime girl kicking .jpeg m8 maybe next year you'll be able to lift your leg all the way up.
> 7 years taekwondo training
> still too fat to lift his legs off the floor
> spamming his waifu in every post
> giving out "advice" as if he knows a thing or two
> passive aggressive shitposting
seriously, funnier than chris chan. I should have screencapd your autism from the start.
You'd have an ED article by now.
>that silly "kicking contest" thing.
It was one of the most lively things to happen on /asp/.
It even led to Wu's gif, which led to quite the chain of events.
I just made this .gif before I get a shave and a hair cut. I hope it makes y'all laugh as much as I did. Wu, I apologize if this comes off as rude, but I just couldn't help myself after getting this bath robe.
Jesus Christ nigger, he's kind of a fag, but at least he doesn't shitpost like tkdbrah. M8, you get beat up by a tkd guy she you were little or something, because you seem really upset?