I'm really torn between judo and BJJ and would like to hear views from the judo/BJJ practitioners out there.
I started judo a few months ago, but for a while now I've been thinking if I should switch to BJJ. I like grappling on the ground (maybe more than standing up), and many judokas seem to get their bodies more or less rekt eventually. BJJ seems much easier on the body. I like the cultural stuff and philosophy surrounding judo better though (bowing etc.).
I guess I could also do both, but would I make much progress in either that way? I train four times a week currently, but it's possible that that may have to be lowered to three at some point in the future. Practicing both would also include the downside of the injuries of judo.
I don't intend to get into a lot of fights or become a MMA fighter, and I'm not very interested in competing. I just like grappling as a hobby.
Any thoughts or advice?
I do both and I think bjj is more practical/useful from the start, judo takes a longer time to get somewhat good at but is super fun to practice.
generally a bjj blackbelt will submit a judo blackbelt more often than not, but both will work in beating anyone untrained.
do both if you can, or research how good the judo schools are in your area and how good the bjj schools are
if you live near an amazing judo school do that - if you live near an amazing bjj school do that..
as a sidenote thank you for making this thread, and not "SHULD I DO KRAV MAGA KANG FU OR MUAY THAI I HEAR KRAB MAGU IS ISRAEL"
Been doing both for several years. All other things being equal I'd recommend crosstraining to develop a more complete grappling game - preferably starting out with Judo as developing a decent standing game is harder than developing ground game. Make sure to invest enough time in that, even if you become discouraged by how hard it can at times be.
>I like grappling on the ground (maybe more than standing up)
Because it's easier to make progress there. But after a year (or something) when you start getting some throws done Judo gets much more fun.
>and many judokas seem to get their bodies more or less rekt eventually. BJJ seems much easier on the body.
Generally I agree, BJJ is softer to your body. And if you really plan on competing you will probably get minor injuries sometimes. But hey, it's no big deal. Brokes toes happen, you'll live.
BJJ has more cauliflower ears I personally I don't like the slow pace. But that's a personal opinion, both martial arts are great.
Also I would recommend what this guy said: >>877292
Start with Judo, it's a great foundation and switch to BJJ later. Judo makes you tough and gives you great standup fighting, BJJ gets your ground game on a whole new level.
The best part is that you can get your technical blue belt straight from Rener Gracie trough the power of the internet!
You'll rek those BJJ sport "jiu jitsu" practitioners in no time.
The judoka that get all fucked up tend to be those who compete and do so seriously, to my knowledge, and even then it's not any more detrimental than competing in any other contact sport. If you only do it as a hobby you should run little risk of breaking your body down. I'd recommend checking to see if any school is either really good or really bad and prioritizing from there, if there's no particulars to them try doing both if you can.
>Start with Judo, it's a great foundation and switch to BJJ later.
Wouldn't I just eventually forget my judo stuff if I did judo first and then switched to BJJ later at some point, dropping judo? Couldn't I just start doing both twice a week? Seems like that would be pretty much like going to a judo school that splits their time evenly between tachiwaza and newaza.
Spicfag here, so sorry for bad engrish
Both styles are great and as you maybe know, BJJ and Judo share many aspects but each one has their emphasis being takedowns and throws for Judo and groundfighting and submissions for BJJ.
I don´t know if it takes that longer being decent in standing, not for me at least, instructor shows the basics and mechanics of a throw and you learn it by practice, the same goes for the ground. To me Judo is easier cos i´m not very athletique or flexible (good shape and that, but i´m talking about being competitive) and that´s a must in BJJ. BJJ on the other hand (from my POV) has a lot more technicities and is a lot more subtle to learn so i´d put the "harder to learn" on BJJ.
I go for the general opinion that training both is best way to go, and if you get bored or prefer one, then choose that.
>Wouldn't I just eventually forget my judo stuff
BJJ develloped from Judo, so there's a huge overlap. The differences are more about how Judoka and JiuJiteros apply their techniques.
BTW most Judo schools split their time even between Ground fighting (NeWaza) and Throws (TachiWaza). But NeWaza training is still different than BJJ training..
In Judo you don't have time on the ground because of the ruleset. So you want a few high percentage moves that end the fight quickly and you use a lot of pressure. It's very fast paced (on a higher level, not for beginners of course). But in the standup fighting you will learn plenty of combinations how to throw someone.
Now BJJ is exactly the other way arround: You will use a small set of "high percentage" takedowns, but a huge variety of combinations on the ground.
As I said before, a lot of techniques can be found in both styles. It's more like "but I know 20 different ways to do this throw" (Judo) vs. "but I know 20 differnt ways to use this lock" (BJJ).
But you can't really go wrong with each of those, both styles are great. If you study BJJ and change to Judo you'll already have great ground fighting skills, the other way arround you'll be absolutely dangerous in the stand up fighting. So just look for a school nearby that has good teachers and start training.
>Couldn't I just start doing both twice a week?
You could, but be aware that you may become overreliant on your groundwork during Judo. I'm >>877292 and started crosstraining BJJ after ~2 years of Judo and still fell for that particular trap.
So on the upside, I can win against far more skilled Judoka because my ne-waza is considerably better than theirs, but on the downside my tachi-waza probably isn't as good as it should've been after five years of training. If you combine both, keep this in mind and pay special attention to your tachi-waza, as you'll be getting plenty of ne-waza no matter what.
Do both. Find a good judo school and they should help you to not get rekt. If they have you doing shitty breakfalls so the other guy doesn't score points, find a new school.
I'd recommend focusing on doing tachi waza in judo class and ne waza in BJJ class, otherwise you'll get lazy and use your mediocre ne waza to beat judoka and your mediocre tachi waza to beat BJJers. When you go to competitions, though, use both.
They're both fun, I do Judo and wrestling only because BJJ for me currently is too expensive. Pick what you like and have fun with it.
>BTW most Judo schools split their time even between Ground fighting (NeWaza) and Throws (TachiWaza).
>If you combine both, keep this in mind and pay special attention to your tachi-waza, as you'll be getting plenty of ne-waza no matter what.
We have only one newaza class in a week out of a total of four (not including two irregularly held early morning classes that I've never been to), and I don't recall there being much or any newaza outside of that one class.
Doing both (tachiwaza in judo & newaza in BJJ) now would be advantageous in the sense that it would keep my options open in case I want to quit judo. I went to a BJJ basic course that started the day before yesterday, because the next basic course would be nine months away, and waiting for that would suck if I wanted to quit judo (and to not continue doing judo until the start of the next BJJ basic course). Doing both would also let me feel the different arts out while unsure if I want to continue judo, switch to BJJ or train both.
That last paragraph felt really awkward, hopefully what I meant can be understood from it (English is not my first language)…
To quote Billy Wicks, a catch wrestling:
Real grappling doesn't start until you're on the ground.
Judo's bretty cool though. More injuries and fedoras than BJJ though.
This guy has some good points, OP. I will give my perspective. I am a judoka of 13 years. I have also done BJJ for about two, along with some submission wrestling/nogi.
Judo is my one true love. I always felt the Judo community is way tighter and more genuine than the jits. As far as practicality, I give judo the upper hand. Even a good foot sweep/throw buy a small 150lb bloke like myself will put a man out if need be. I hate the scoring in jim jitsu and how "guard pulls" have become a thing that coaches advocate for.
Regardless of that gay shit becoming a fad, Jiu jitsu is a beautiful art, and I most certainly respect the masters of it. I feel as though jiu jitsu is being exploited in ways that judo has not and this is unfortunate. After all, jiu jitsu was derived from judo, and 90% of techniques taught in jiu jitsu were a part of judo. You decide, OP. I vote JUDO!!!
This is a really funny statement because my Judo coach has been sending guys to local jiu jitsu tournaments and the guy has already won two matches by tap from big hip throws.
So yea the grappling definitely started standing, and then ended once it went to the ground lol.
A lot of great opinions here OP. No one is wrong.
Judo pays off in the long run and in my experience requires more athletic training.
The thing with fighting styles is they're a lot like language. Even if two senseis "speak" judo the way they teach and what they emphasize can be very different.
The initial judo syllabus originally included not only most of the ne waza found in BJJ but also striking techniques. Judo was refined (moves taken out) to make it easier to practice without maiming your training partner. As time went on it was further redacted in order to qualify it as an Olympic competitive sport. That redaction of techniques has continued as athletic bodies attempt to make the sport of judo more competitive (for example the removal leg picks and emphasis on throws that result in perfect ippon).
In the dojo I trained at people who competed in judo competition would be learning one dialect of judo (sport) and the people who practised Judo for fun or to expand their mat techniques would be learning another dialect (art or self defence).
We'd usually spend at least one a few night cross training with the local BBJ gym.
This site lays out the difference pretty well:
There is a lot of literature on the history of Judo and modern BJJ. I read this book a while back. Great if you want to sharpen your head game:
Depends. If you like wrestling and holds go no gi. If you want something more challenging and a little closer to actual combat (not too much though) practice with a gi or alternate.
Its rare you have to fight naked people...but it happens
Saying BJJ developed from Judo is pretty inaccurate.
Judo was in its fucking infancy and looks nothing liker it did back then. You also need to keep in mind that Catch wrestling had a tremendous influence. Do you even know who the fuck the Gracies are? They owned a fucking circus where they hosted catch wrestling matches. Guess how they met Maeda? He was a professional Catch wrestler who wrestled in their fucking circus.
I mean fuck, compare what BJJ looks like now to what Helio and Carlos were doing. Looks pretty different. Sure, just like in judo you learn the traditional shit, but a lot of that really doesn't work too well in competition.
Definitely. Judo attracts fedoras/weebs, BJJ attracts hipsters and snobs.
Eh, I personally like nogi more, but lately I've been having a lot of fun wrapping people up in their own gi. The lapel stuff is pretty fun once you start doing it. I find it to be a somewhat spiteful humor for me because I do find it silly.
Still, a lot of nogi stuff is very sporty too. From a self-defense perspective, it is good to know how to use basic grips and belt stuff because most people wear clothes. Personally, I only get in fights when I'm naked. In the locker room, nude beaches... I don't know what it is, but when you can see my junk I'm just ready to go at the drop of a dime.
Nahhh. Fights rarely end by throw. You can't discount them, obviously, but it's not something you bank on. Like you don't fucking bank on knocking someone out when you get into a fight. It happens, but even if it were 50%, that's still pretty risky.
I remember someone hit me with a really sweet lateral drop the other day. I submitted him via kimura 5 seconds later. The takedown was for nothing.
And all that stuff was already in JJJ before it was in Judo, and before that, wrestling or whatever. Who cares.
And if you think 90% of the stuff that is in BJJ is in Judo, you have to be fucking joking. The complexity of ground work is amazing.
I hope you don't think that is a sound argument. The state of stand up game in a lot of BJJ schools is pretty pathetic. That doesn't mean that it is a problem with BJJ, just those schools.
They really had to fucking suck to get hip thrown. Hip throws are hard as fuck in BJJ against people who know what they are doing due to BJJ allowing an appropriate grappling stance.
I know you Judo guys are used to rules making throwing easier, but I don't like to make excuses for people who suck. Our school teaches plenty of stand up, but it isn't Judo. Straight Judo is not great for BJJ, it needs to be changed.
There is stuff I don't like about BJJ rules, but Judo's rules are even sillier.
I mean fuck, there are wrestlers who come and do BJJ tournaments and win by taking people down and laying and praying. But that is the low level. That shit and your Judo knockouts are very rare at high level.
I think you're confusing sports rules with styles and techniques. OP doesn't want to compete so that's probably not a big issue.
The Gracies innovation was creating a fighting system. If I'm not mistaken, Maeda's techniques reflected a lot of what was in the original judo syllabus (distilled from multiple schools of Japanese JJ) and stuff he learned while travelling the world and competing.
There have been some other technical innovations in BJJ (butterfly guard, rubber guard ect) but I learned about those in a judo dojo.
>I remember someone hit me with a really sweet lateral drop the other day. I submitted him via kimura 5 seconds later. The takedown was for nothing.
I assume he through you onto a mat where you took proper ukemi. I am not knocking BJJ, but grappling that does not start standing is missing an important element, and again I know many BJJ guys have a decent stand up game, and that is how it should be
BJJ is far superior. Theres only a few throws in Judo worth a shit and you learn them in BJJ, the rest give the guy your back which is the worst thing possible. BJJ is like having a super power.
>Personally, I only get in fights when I'm naked. In the locker room…
I'll show you who's the boss of this gym
As a hobby, I think BJJ is way better. My MMA gym has a Judo coach and a BJJ coach. Guess who's class all the injuries come from?
They're both really great arts, but if you're not interested in being a fighter, or a serious competitor, I think BJJ is much more rewarding as a hobby.
Another thing is, I find it much easier to get back into BJJ when you're out of shape, which can happen if you're irregularly training.
>Saying BJJ developed from Judo is pretty inaccurate.
Not this shit again..
>Judo was in its fucking infancy and looks nothing liker it did back then.
Maeda arrived at Brazil in 1915, and it would still be serveral years until we see the very beginnings of BJJ. The Kodokan was already over 30 Years old than. And the famous Gracie vs. Kimura fight tool place in 1951, when the Kodokan was about 70 years old. It's not what I would call "infancy".
>You also need to keep in mind that Catch wrestling had a tremendous influence.
It did not. Just because Maeda (a highly decorated Judoka) trained some catch wrestling here and there and BJJ guys are pissed about their Judo heritage, doesn't mean BJJ is very much like catch wrestling.
I mean Wrestling is all about pinning someone on the ground, BJJ uses Submissions (like Judo does). And much more. You can even find the whole leglock stuff in early Judo.
>Do you even know who the fuck the Gracies are? They owned a fucking circus where they hosted catch wrestling matches. Guess how they met Maeda? He was a professional Catch wrestler who wrestled in their fucking circus.
Aahhh, just STOP.
First of all, Maeda was a High Dan Judoka before he ever started to fight against Catch wrestlers. He was open minded and also fought with boxers, does this mean "Boxing had atremendous influence on BJJ"..?
Also look at the founders of BJJ:
-Carlos Gracie who studied Judo under Maeda from teh age of 12
-Helio Gracie who gave Judo classes and became a high Judo Dan later on
Do you still think Judo had no influence on BJJ?
Learn your history, grasshopper.
>Just like in judo you learn the traditional shit, but a lot of that really doesn't work too well in competition.
You mean like a "Hadaka Jime" is traditional stuff that doesn't work and a "Mata Leao" is made for the ring? Lel.
Or like the JuiiJime.. oh wait, it's the most common submission nowadays. But it's pure Judo from teh very beginnings.
How about more training?
Purple belt BJJ here, from the street fight thread.
I haven't done any judo really, but I know a few hip tosses and takedowns. My main takedown game is pretty retarded, I mean I can easily get someone untrained on the ground via shitty takedowns, but anyone trained? It's gonna be a bit of a battle. Especially since most of the dudes at my gym are in the competition team. I don't really compete, I don't train enough.
My three "go to" takedowns are
>standard hip toss
>the ol' pop-their elbow-up-and-duck-under-when-you-are-clinched
Sorry, don't really know the name of the third one.
Sorry to hear anon..
There's a very common misconception about throwing and falling in Judo.
In "old schoold" JuJitsu - which was made for (and used in) warfare and self defense - the idea of throwing someone was to injure, disable or even kill him with this throw. And it was indeed an actual "defense" to develop proper Ukemi (falling techniques).
Nowadays it's hard to imagine that the stuff you learn in the first few Judo classes should be something particular interesting, but it is.
Now I think it's great that Judo is such a peaceful martial art, but as this anon here >>879336 wrote, if you use throws for self defense, they are nasty, because if you can control how your opponent flies and lands, you can also choose to not make him land comfortably. Of course, the more training the other guy has the more he can choose how he will land. But the quote of Judoka "hitting with the force of the whole planet" is not just empty rhetoric.
>Theres only a few throws in Judo worth a shit
It's not about the amount of throws, it's about how you use them. How you chain them together, how you dynamically unblanace your opponent and exploit instabilities in his posture. Similar to BJJ, where it's not about a single technique, but it's about which technique you use at what point, how you counter your opponent's counter and so on..
Also it's about how good you are at this throws. Kimura actually KO'd people with his OSotoGari so often, that his training partners often agreed with him that he mustn't use this throw in their match. Kimura was also impressed that Helio took his OSotoGari and could still fight.
BJJ and Judo are both great arts and looking down at throws is a huge mistake. It's worth putting some time and effort in it, if only to defend yourself properly against it.
>There have been some other technical innovations in BJJ (butterfly guard, rubber guard ect) but I learned about those in a judo dojo.
I'm nitpicking here, but basic butterfly guard and a few rubber guard techniques were already part of the Judo curriculum before BJJ was a thing. BJJ (and, in the case of the latter Nino Schembri and later Eddie Bravo) elaborated them considerably and turned them into viable game plans.
Plenty of useful throws are usually left out in BJJ, not to mention that BJJ will usually omit all but the most basic set-ups, chains and counters. Simply a consequence of deciding to devote more time to ground work, which leads to dropping the more complex top tier technique because it requires too much time, leaving one with the easier reliable stuff.
>But the quote of Judoka "hitting with the force of the whole planet" is not just empty rhetoric
This quote is my favourite thing about judo, moreso than the gracefulness of the throws themselves.