Old general had an untimely demise thanks to the influx of WWE shitheads making new threads...
All grapplers of their respective disciplines post here. Share stories, advice/tips, training routines etc. It all goes here.
Nice to see that one of my favorite boards is falling apart before my very eyes.
At any rate, i haven't been to the gym in a while. Too occupied by school shit but I make time to go to wrestling practice every now and then.
Looks like an alright place. Just ask if they do month-to-month payments. Don't sign up for a membership with them if they make you do a contract for x amount of years unless you think you can keep paying it. That way if something happens, you aren't legally bound to do shit.
If you want strong cardio, you need to adjust your routine. Distance running/swimming only trains distance runs/swims and doesn't engage your circulatory/respiratory systems the way grappling will.
If you're not worried about that at all, routine looks solid.
As far as gym, you aren't going to find any decent training facilities anywhere. If they've got a schedule that fits yours and they aren't screwing you over on payment plans (lease style first/last payments, contracts that force you to pay for x amount of time, etc.) that's honestly the best you can hope for.
I recently started lifting regularly BUT I only do it once a week.
As a newbie to lifting will I still see gains in my grappling from it or do I HAVE to lift more often to see any real results?
You need to train your body for multiple bursts of high-intensity activity in quick succession. That pretty much describes HITT.
Tabata style workouts are great for this. If you want to keep it to running, develop a weekly cycle of sprints, tempo-runs, and distance runs to develop lung capacity, VO2 max, AND stamina.
Google and trial-and-error are your friends. Research HITT's and see what works best for you. I personally do Tabata style workouts.
The lifting is good, too. Strength can be overcome with good technique, but it's really hard to pull someone into guard when they can pick you up with one arm.
Strength vs technique usually goes to technique, but like I said here >>766976 at a certain point, there's no amount of technique that can help you when your opponent can treat you like they are handling a child.
That being said, you're going to have to be significantly stronger than your opponent for that to matter. There's a reason it takes 2 or 3 cops to subdue someone without hurting them.
tl;dr--lifting won't help much against the better trained grappler but it can give you an advantage in certain situations
So what you are saying is it probably won't help that much, but it also won't hurt ether.
Well I see no reason to stop lifting now that I am doing it. If I get the chance to do it more often I will try, but for now I will keep doing what I am doing.
I rolled with a good grappler in no gi today and I was wondering something. I managed to sink a high crotch numerous times, but he just sort of let me get it and then proceeded to fuck with me on his back. My question is to how do I shoot my double leg and go for my crackdown when I have to deal with a guillotine? It's a lot weirder when I can get choked
The only thing that I have ever had any success with from the turtle is raising your hips and going for the leg between your own. It should eventually lead to a kneebar, but the success rate isn't great. usually I just try and scramble to something better.
Google Pat Smith. The way he does his Hi-C the guy ends up falling forward so he can't really do much (can't even sprawl).
Obviously, you must also be very tight to them with your head and keep your head up.
The counter your should really be worried about is people jumping to your back with one of your arms trapped by their leg.
Its kinda poorly drawn but you should grab their legs and push them over sort of like this.
every time im at a tornamanet in the north texas area "alvaraz BJJ always does well. good place to train lot of good guys. they key at getting good at anything is not quiting. more ppl quit than stick with it, i got my purple belt last year july, i seen way more ppl quit this than college.>>766908
Just googled, apparently some book about weight training.
Why would you just assume everyone would know exactly what the fuck you were talking about and just guess that it was some specific book?
It is not like this is the weight lifters general or something.
Eduardo Telles has built a lot of his games from turtle position.
A lot of it consists of controlling your opponents legs and kneebars, rolling back to guard, and baiting your opponent to pressure into you so you can reach your hand across his body to reverse the position.
Pretty sure he has a couple of vids out.
Protip: if you are training for grappling only do lowbar squats, deads, power cleans/hang cleans/power snatches (pick one), heavy ass dumbbell rows, bench presses, and weighted ab work. Hell even some of those are unnecessary.
And then turned into cartoon shit for retards.
Meh, if Rousey actually attempted some grappling I could agree with you, but she tried to stand and bang with a world class striker. Fucking stupid game plan.
I doubt it, she always charges in. And when she tried to resort to grappling, she couldn't finish.
Holm was just way more prepared than her.
Does anybody know where I can find pdfs of grappling books?
I really want to read pic related. Jiu-jitsu University is worth it for the escapes alone, but a lot of them aren't even worth it.
Does anybody read any guides or picked up anything cool that they read?
It's a meme book. I think the point is that if you didn't know what it was, you could just google it, which you did. Good job guy. I'm not sure why you are getting mad.
Lol, do you grapple bro? Having a sore lower back all the time really fucking hampers grappling. I also have no idea why you think that modified olympic lifts benefit grappling in anyway.
I personally use a trap bar since it is easier on my back than deadlifts and easier on my knees than squats (used to use one at a lifting gym, just got one at the martial arts gym, all the fighters were really excited. Everyone is using it). I also like do do full glute-ham raises (as the device's creator intended - not just doing fucking leg curls on them)
Yah, it's like an arm throw, it especially work if they try to spin behind you (also popular in wrestling). I was just listing off all the possible submissions. There is also stuff like granbies - to guard is popular, but you could also just take their back. Sit outs, wrestlers switch. My coach has a cool one where when then spin behind,you sit up and sweep them over your leg with your arm.
Books? Dude this 2015, get some fucking DVDs, go on youtube, or download some shit. You can buy a membership to a website to with videos - erik paulson's has by far the biggest library that I've seen.
I can't afford the Erik Paulson membership atm.
I have an extensive video library, but I like the ease of access to books.
Some of the older stuff isn't available on that, but even if it were I just enjoy the medium.
I'm just looking for suggestions. If you don't have one to contribute, don't bother commenting.
Look dude, I know what you /wwe/ shitheads are trying to do. You are invading threads with your bs and being generally obnoxious shitposters because you think the mods will go
>"Wow, we shouldnt have put those guys on /asp/ They are really messing up their board! We should send them back to /sp/
But its not gonna fucking happen. Just stop shitposting like this and accept this is where you are going to stay and keep to your respective threads. PLEASE. You literally have dozens to post gay shit like this>>776306 in now.
Been busy with wrestling season to post. But i see a lot has changed on /asp/. Can field some questions or break downs though.
you need to learn how to shoot a high C (propper penetrating step, grip, and finish it them.
The gif is rather impressive but DC had the added advantage of using the cage to aide in securing his High C.
I like to wrestle with my roommate and buddies. One problem I have is half the time I shoot to take em down I get caught in that choke. Not a wannabe tough guy or anything but I know I can beat my roomier if not for that shit we just fuck around n do wrestling with submissions especially if we are drunk and watching ufc.
What kind of choke? RNC or a headlock in pic related. The best way to get out of that is to grip fight like a demon.
Then grip fight and peel those hands off. Head lock chokes are one of the most common submissions for people who generally don't know how to wrestle, but its also easy to escape if you know what you are doing.
Also if you shoot with your head to the inside (like for a blast double) or circle to the outside to get your head across his body, rather than pressing on the outside, you can avoid the guillotine altogether.
Does anybody know any front headlock escapes that aren't wrestling sit-outs. I had some success with outside fireman's carry and peeling the arm off my throat for a Russian 2-on-1 for a while, but now everybody's caught on to my shit.
I'll try the switch out for a bit.
A lot of times, my head and neck positioning isn't even good enough to get there (hence why I would rely on my outside fireman's or the russian to peel that arm off my throat).
So are there any ways of relieving that pressure off the throat or peeling that grip altogether that you guys like to use?
I'll say this.If you find yourself commonly caught in the front head lock there are 2 major flaws in your fighting style that make you prone to getting put in that spot.
1) Your head posture and stance are poor and you keep dropping your head making you prone to getting front head lock. Because a lot of rookies will duck or bend their heads completly down when "Defending" a grip
2) You have weak hand fighting/pummeling and get put into a front headlock. IE you get constantly collar or neck tie and force to bend your head or snapped down and force to bend your head.
Developing a better stance and head posture and developing better hand fighting/pummeling serves as preventive maintenance in getting caught frequently in a front headlock.
Third thing i like to address is if you're offensively minded and shoot a lot, you need to watch your head position a similar problem happens like this guy hinted >>777131
You're not going to get front head locked nor guillotine if you put your head in the proper place for a shot. So either your head is dead smack in the guy's gut for a blast double/morote gari.
OR if you shoot a single or high crotch your head and neck are so press against the guy's ribs and you're necks posture up and angled you're not going to get front head lock
To directly answer your question about relieving pressure off your throat, you better be fighting off that hand and peeling it off. You shouldn't be thinking of getting deeper into your opponent and hitting fireman's carry but rather hand fight, push away and reset into your offensive set. Trying to salvage yourself from bottom like that and chaining an attack isnt efficient and will get you into deeper trouble. I advice my athletes to reset after clearing something defensively
Okay, thanks so much.
I definitely feel like my problem is more about the first option.
I would most certainly reset most of the time, but when I'm down, a lot of times I'm the smaller guy. So when I push away, I feel like my partner's weight is coming more on the back of my neck and head, pushing me down further. When I try to fight that grip and push back at an angle, he has better mobility because his hips are higher/he's on his toes.
Any tips on disengaging from that position?
This isnt the exact video i wanted to reference but its close. I want you to look at 0:19 to 023
observe how his head is always postured up, even as he level changes his neck never bends nor his head never moves. A lot of people tend to dip their heads and bend their necks making them prone to being head lock.
Next piece i want to reference.
Look at 0:30 this is what i was refering to in terms of keeping the head near uke's/defender's gut. If you're going to lead your head outside during a shot make sure your head is still postured up, (i'm trying to find a video example to reference so give me some time) but the core princple is having proper head posture to prevent the problems you guys are facing.
Can I ask you what your main point of attack, right now I am reading your problem as you're a smaller athlete, stuck in turtle/ref's position. Do you feel comfortable with a single leg? Like do you find yourself with your opponent's leg but you're stuck on bottom, or are you completely bellied out
I'm normally stuck with an arm. I never belly out, but I always get crossfaced when I find the leg.
So normally, I bail on it to keep my composure and to survive/keep a defensive position rather than try to suck that leg in.
My main point of attack, starts from the ground when I go for a sit-up sweep, to a fireman's, to an outside fireman's, to a dump finish.
Normally, this at least puts me back in a neutral position where I can back out if I don't get the dump finish, but against larger, more skilled opponents, I can't find the right leverage.
I'm pretty beat so i'll be heading to bed but i'll post 2 ideas here and reply to your response later. For guys on the bottom, even when your opponent is above you with higher hips, you get a leg and work a single into a stand up or use that leg to sweep and reverse.
I am going to use this as a reference point in terms of the concepts ill talk about again tired but ill expand on some of these points in depth.
First concept if you're stuck on bottom but you get a leg, use that grip and circle around. Watch at 6:30 and this coaches right arm. That's the pivot point you need to establish your reset series and get clear out of being bottom.
Next point if you're stuck on bottom and you got yourself at least something of a single leg, is adjusting your hips/falling to the side then walking back up. That moment of you falling forces your opponent to fall with his own hips, then you can reset and continue.
Look at 10:50 mark
Actually, that elbow to the mat thing worked out in general. I had to kind of modify it from the position I get, where I kind of bail on whatever arm I caught for a funky feeling swing single.
Still, great stuff man.
What are some interesting drills and movements you guys do to control the head and hands of your opponent?
From standing, I drill this, and have great success with it.
For hands, I usually focus on using a y-grip break when they grab the outside and forcing it across their body.
If they are dumb enough to grab across, I usually club the back of their shoulder while pulling my hand back to land into a Russian 2-on-1 or better I hit a shallow arm drag to a single.
Suscribed years ago.
Gif un- or only partially related.
Gi vs No Gi. what are the main differences between training and athletic requirement in each one? which do you like better and why?
with gi I can at least control the sleeves and grab the lapel, and breaking the grip is not as easy as on no gi.
getting the neck and over/underhooks on tall/strong dudes on no gi is a pain in the ass.
I'm not a good wrestler/judoka, but since I'm 192 cm and 95kg, what I hate the most are the leg drag and inside/outside reaps with legs. Marcelo garcia style arm drag to leg attack
A very important point is to control (even briefly the wrists), this allows to set up good entries.
Grip fight, head control, single - double leg, two on one, wheezer, underhook, look for them.
There are videos in this thread.
Judo is grappling. Wrestling is grappling. BJJ is grappling. Sambo is grappling.
What this guy said...>>789465
Are you implying it isn't a throw?
I've been chasing the Uchi Mata for awhile back, and I think I'm going to change my grip strategy. The only thing I can hit from the standard sleeve and collar grip is a shitty ken-ken uchi mata, as I can never seem to get in deep enough for that perfect lift and throw.
I've been thinking on working an under-over, or sleeve and armpit grip to see if that helps me get in deeper. As an added bonus, it would help me shut down all the lanklets that end up in my weight class.
Any tips on uchi mata, /asp/?
As an added visual aid, this is the kind of Uchi mata I usually end up hitting, but never against taller opponents. (and not nearly this nice, obviously.)
That's because if you land them on their head it is a DQ. Wrestlers are very careful not to do that in competition, but as someone who has trained MMA in a gym full of wrestlers, they aren't as careful to do that out of competition unless they really like you.
Judo lab did a great video on Uchi Mata https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZJcx2ppyB4
Think of the hip as a fulcrum, rather than thinking of it as a big hip lift. However, if you're struggling to get your hips into the proper position then you need to work on your kuzushi and make sure that you're getting your opponent off balance before you bring you hips through to attack.
How are you setting the throw up?
Standard uchi-komi type set up from sleeve and lapel grip. I pull uke up and in to try to get him on his toes, then backstep into position and bring the leg up.
Works great in throw for throw/ light randori, but I find when it comes down to hard randori and shiai I find I can never get deep enough due to the grip fighting, and end up only hitting the leg.
Basically, I do good 'tall guy' uchi matas, but I'm not tall enough to rely on them.
Watch the video I posted because it should help you out a lot.
With hard randori, you need to set it up better, work on your ashi-waza and see what works for you, maybe a ko uchi or o uchi to open them up a bit more then smash in with the uchi mata.
Also worth noting that if you're fighting the same people week in, week out, then they'll become accustomed to your attacks and find them a lot easier to dodge or counter.
As to attacks, I usually try ko uchi or O uchi to open Uke up. Honestly, I think it's a kumi kata issue.
I will check that vid out, thanks.
And yeah, I recently moved from a club that had lots of guys at different belt levels, to being one of the only coloured belts at a club full of browns and blacks.
Ignore the middle part of my last post then.
If it's kumi kata, then you need to start drilling it hard, ask a partner or coach in randori to just fight grips with you for a minute or so, see how many times you find yourself in the dominant position, and how often they get it. Then look into exactly what the problems are, do you have a lack of forearm and grip strength in general? Are your muscles cramping up from over use?
Beyond Grappling is another channel you should check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHPqokg2zo
> And yeah, I recently moved from a club that had lots of guys at different belt levels, to being one of the only coloured belts at a club full of browns and blacks.
iktf. I'm first dan now, but when I started I was the only colour belt in a club of browns and black belts, it was hard to throw any of them for years, but it has made me a better fighter now.
Not a muscle or grip problem, I don't think. I'm pretty strong and I work a labour heavy job.
I think it's a grip strategy thing. In randori and Shiai I usually just take a grip and start fighting, whether it's advantageous, disadvantageous or whatever. I don't bother working towards the grip I want, just start pulling and attempting throws.
Any good video resources on grip-fighting? Is that Jimmy Pedro vid available to stream?
Seems like you really need to think about gripping strategy. Simplify it in your mind, if they have a grip they like, they will throw you, if you have the grip you like, you will throw them.
Grip fighting is still a big part of judo, it's changed massively over the last few years, but it can still be dynamic and still be fun. You need to think about where you want your grip to be, are you fighting left or right handed? Can you switch from one to the other with ease? Are you on the inside of their grip (with Uchi mata, I'd argue you always need to be inside their grip, same is true of most koshi waza)? Start thinking about getting your grip, about fighting your opponents grip, because if you can't grip fight, you can't break their balance, and then you can't throw.
With regards to video resources, Beyond Grappling is great for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BecEWubDNF0 though this is a little outdated now.
>i I usually just take a grip and start fighting, whether it's advantageous, disadvantageous or whatever.
jesus fucking christ don't do that
my gym has a bunch of champions, they all say get your main grip NO MATTER WHAT. do EVERYTHING to get your grip and maintain it. if you feel there is no way you can get your grip just break away and start again. get your grip and try to not let your opponent get HIS grip.
drill the fuck out of grip fighting. grip fight until you get your grip, once you got it, start over.
not butthurt just defending my discipline. that guy sucked at wrestling. he had his head down and his hips out in his takedown attempts. plus a lot of the throws and trips i saw have counterparts in wrestling. for example, idk what's it's called in judo, but when he stepped in between his legs and tripped, that's a wrestling move as well, and it's called an inside trip. and he also hit him with what we call a lateral drop, and a neck crank. so instead of the discipline being better, it's probably more of a case of the practitioner being better
I thought so, too, but he might just be wearing a white belt instead of/over his real belt.
A lot of small tournaments have a blue belt and white belt on hand for judoka to wear, to make scoring easier.
Yeah, I know. I heard the same thing from the guys at my old gym. I think a big part of my problem is that I did pretty well at the citrus belt level, against other citrus belts, so that I internalized a lot of less-than-ideal habits. Need to relearn some shit (specifically, getting deeper for koshiwaza and developing a grip fighting strategy).
I'll see if I can get some guys to help me with grip fighting drills/strategy next time I have an open mat.
I'm a full on Judo fanboy, and I agree. Cherrypicking style vs style fights and shitting on each other is ridiculous.
Kolat tells me that this is the inside trip
Which is O Uchi Gari in Judo
There's a lot of crossover, I agree.
Mavlet Batirov, Buvaisar Saitiev, Hamid Sourian, Khetag Gazyumov, Abdulrashid Sadulaev, Rasul Chunayev, Arsen Julfalakyan, Roman Vlasov, Artur Taymazov, Haji Aliyev, Kyle Snyder, Jordan Burroughs, Besik Kudukhov (RIP)
Is there a good comprehensive guide to grappling? Or for fighting in general?
I don't just want instructions on executing specific moves. I want flowcharts, strategies, etc..
After several months of grappling, I only recently found out that in the bottom of half guard you should curl your head toward the opponent's hip.
Hey guys, I'm looking into getting into grappling/ground work. I do Muay Thai and I am only really knowledgeable on striking. But where I go is a good gym, and they have a Jiu Jitsu coach there who I know is good, think he's a judoka and part of team GB (I am britfag). So what I want to know is, is Jiu Jitsu effective? If so, why? If not, why? Would it go well with MT? Please help anons.
There are many differnt flow chatrs on the interwebs, but the problem is: they aren't YOUR flowchart.
The "flow chart" of different fighters would very different, depening on their skills, their best techniques, their strategy and so on.
You mean Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or (classical) Japanese Jiu Jitsu? I'd say go for Judo or BJJ, because with Japanese Jiu Jitsu you never know. There are some good schools and a lot of crap schools, and everything you'll learn in JJJ you'll get better in BJJ or Judo.
That said, if you have no alternatives To JJJ, it's much better than nothing.
leave /asp/ for a month
front page is entirely WWE faggots
>it's not even a fucking sport
what the ever loving fuck?
when are they going to ban these threads? Even figure skating and rollerblading threads are better.
not that there's anything wrong about the two, but theyre *SPORTS*
fuck this board is trash now.
The threads were about real sports, not roided out larping
Sure, the content was still garbage, but at least it was pertinent to alternative sports.
All of the WWE threads are about a tv show, ffs.
Been having issues being flattened out in half guard. I think I just need to opt into getting into half guard faster so I can base out on one hand, and have my hips escape the opponents weight, but it's so difficult at times.
Anyone got decent vid showing options when you get flattened out in half-guard?
Catch wrestling "inspired" BJJ, so they have a lot of overlap..
Catch wrestling has leg locks / foot locks which are allowed only for high BJJ belts and of course more wrestling takedowns.
BJJ on the other hand has a more refined conceptual syllabus, a strong focus on fighting from your back and Gi fighting (which is not included in catch wrestling, AFAIK).
Long story short:
Both arts are very similar, but when you say "I do catch" everyone gasps in awe.
Yeah, but in US and UK it's a very small pool of guys who try to revive it. I'd lvoe to see it come back again, but honestly I think you're better off with cross training BJJ and wrestling and maybe, and after some years you can add some fancy footlocks if you feel like it..
Catch wrestling has about as much chance of having a resurgence in the US as Sambo does. Its not practiced any where any more except in Japan and the UK. BJJ has filled the niche it used to.
>tfw live 3.5 hours from Asheville
I could go down for a day trip and get taught catch by Billy Wicks. Exciting stuff. Unfortunately, it's far away enough that I would only be able to go a few times a year, which is why I'm doing a lot of nogi bjj in the meantime so what I do learn I can better understand.
As a judoka and wrestler half guard is the only guard I feel comfortable enough to say i'm decent at.
eluded to, one of the the core concept of not getting flatten in half guard(and well have a good active half guard) is the deep underhook.
There are 3 core principles to having a good half guard.
1) underhook/waist control
2) should pressure/drive
3) knee twist
I am going to use the following video as a point of reference. Also I recommend studying Lucas Leite as he has help pioneer and morph the half guard as a strong meta game position
First time frame I want you to look at is at the 14:00 min mark.
Watch as Lucas hand fights, gets the wrist grip* and drives in for the underhook. He will refer to it later, but as he gets the under hook. He is driving his left shoulder and putting his weight toward and against uke.
There's a reason why i put an asterisk on the wrist grip. Next point of reference i want you to go to is .16:28.
Observe how instead of getting the wrist grip he promotes using that free arm and posting himself on his on elbow. This gives him a sturdier base and gives him leeway from getting flatten out. (I'm not a bjj player, however any good guard player half, butterfly, full, you are rarely ever flat on your back, so keeping that in mind, have that as a goal and always make sure you're sitting up or posting up in your guard)
Last time reference is the foot work and probably the most crucial and least taught aspect of half guard. I like you to rewind 14:30
Lucas talks about the importance of the underhook. but the synergy of the footwork/ankle lace/knee block at the same time.
This is the most crucial, and for me getting into this position makes the half guard the most viable because it forces uke into a turtle/ref's posistion where i can work my wrestling tilts and judo turn overs.
That sucks, but even getting some day trips for clinics would be cool. No Catch anywhere around me, so I might take up some No-Gi BJJ classes to back up my Judo.
one last thing i wanted to add was in reference to the gif i posted in the last post.
Watch Chael Sonnen sweep Anderson Silva and you will see a good example of using the under hook and shoulder pressure to complete the half guard sweep. Sonnen uses his left hand to pummel for the underhook and drive forward with his left shoulder letting him complete his double leg and reverse Anderson.
In this gif that i am posting right now. Notice Damian Maia's underhook, shoulder pressure and good footwork with the knee twist/ankle grip, letting him pivot up.
There is a place in my city but like almost all grappling places it is way the fuck out of my price range.
Because only upper middle class people have both the money and time to learn.
Well at least I can still afford my hapkido club. Ain't much but it is better then nothing.
i dont know, hapikdo is what i consider crappling, its not trained realistically and instills some real shitty habbits that are hard to un teach or well take a long time training out of you.
Top is different of course. but i was reading that he was talking about bottom half. What subs can you hit from bottom half?
Deep half which honestly is a way different beast then regular half lets you hit knee bars and the leg lock series but other then that I see bottom half as a mainly sweep heavy position.
I know of the kimura. But honestly I have a lot of doubts of that being high percent. Possible? yeah but a low percent. In my mind's eye kimura from bottom half is the antithesis of of position before submission. Even watching meta level BJJ and even MMA. You see a bunch of guys get the kimura grip from half only to get jammed and passed in high level BJJ or jammed and ground and pounded in MMA.
There's to much of an advantage for your opponent to counter that sub, from gripping and defending their attack arm by using their gi or shorts.
I am rather curious about the several chokes and the omoplata set up from bottom half. Do you have any resources that show them?
I find some irony for me as a judoka I prefer the current BJJ meta game of the half guard knee lace/ankle lace from Lucas Lettes
Compare to Eddie Bravo's half guard leg work with the lockdown variant, which Eddie credit's Judo Gene Lebell for teaching him. which is a modified and not really taught banned move called ASHI-KANNUKI
Both the lockdown and the knee block are good but i think the knee block is more aggressive for sweeping and scoring.
You have to be good at kimura from bottom. There are a lot of transitions to know as well, such as going to kimura lockdown position. It requires a lot of patience and skill. I am a kimura guy, so it is fine.
Chokes I can think of off the top of my head:
One of our brown belts always tries to arm in guillotine me. I don't think he's ever got me with it, but he always at least uses it to transition. He usually likes to play the butterflyhook 1/2 guard and I think that's when he usually does it (also lets him sit up to fully butterfly). It's a pain in the ass to deal with.
Ninja choke and d'arce choke should be pretty obvious.
Arm triangle choke from bottom as well. I've been caught in that a few times by that brown belt I was talking about.
There is a baseball bat choke you can do as well. Have to bait them to pass. Very effective though. I taught it to a white belt who liked baseball bat choke in gi, and like 2 weeks later he almost got me with this.
Leg triangle choke can be set up with an overhook.
The other way to do it also chains with a few options including knee bar, omoplata, and a "revere spider web kimura"(best way to describe it I could think of). These come from knee insert guard/z-guard which I and a lot of people at my school play a lot. Basically when they pressure into you, you kick your bottom leg out and all the submissions should be obvious (can also sweep by putting gut on the knee and reverse gripping the near arm).
I forgot, you can also wristlock from bottom 1/2. My coach has a nasty wristlock game he works into his grip fighting. I don't think he's gotten me in a wristlock there (not that you couldn't), but it always chains into something or makes it get a good grip.
There are some more arcane leg locks too. Can see them on the leg lock encyclopedia on youtube. Not sure how well they work.
Whether Gene got it from Judo or catch wrestling (aka the Scorpion Lock) is the real question!
Yeah, I've wanted to play the lockdown game, but honestly never find myself there.
I generally play knee insert guard which gives me space so I don't have to bear much weight which I prefer. My game is rather simple but gets the job done. I'll usually use one of a few simple sweeps, go for the kimura, or kick out to open guard/sweep/submission.
I am trying to add a few things. Like come to the knees (dogfight for Eddie), and I am trying to play with the butterfly hook half guard more. I usually only end up doing the lockdown if I get completely flattened, but I am thinking the butterfly hook option may be better. That is what I a lot of our better guys have been doing. People seem to be getting pretty good at countering the lockdown. I know I certainly am.
I also have never really done anything with bottom half. I might start experimenting with that. Stephan Kesting has a really good 1/2 guard dvd that I am watching.
I also forgot that there is a very obvious and easy heel hook/ankle from bottom half. One of our guys who just got his purple is really good at it. I get it occasionally. This guy also has a decent lockdown game as well. I have trouble countering him, it's usually a war.
UFC had some great case studies of grappling with all their events. Ryan Hall was super impressive with his back attacks and Damian Maia with his single legs and half guard attacks. I honestly think Damian Maia has the best single leg and best cage use wrestling in UFC.
dont try to do too much at first,
-> break posture
-> get double underhooks or overhook / trap an arm
-> set up a sweep or try some submission.
the more you train, the faster you reach step 3. just try to do nr 1 and 2 at first
Im around 125-150lb and all I know is grappling. How fucked am I when going up against a striker or other grappler? I dont like getting into fights, because I always lose, so I avoid them. But I have this fear of being in a fight in public and losing. My skill is probably less than mediocre
what kind of grappling do you know? I saw working your shots, has always been something grapplers have done for decades to close the distance. Or do what the Thais do to work their clinch.
some submission holds and barely any escapes.
The colored guy left his head open, but the european guy was too focused on the colored guys hand placement. If the european guy grappled his opponents neck while using his free leg to wrap around the colored guys body, would he have survived that body slam?
how can you do submissions if you don't know how to move into them. its like having a bullet without a gun. throwing the bullet would hurt like hell. but you're not doing much.
I'm assuming you don't have any real training or knowledge but emulate what you see on videos and shows? why not actually train some where? not being rude, just asking and trying to help you out.
The black guy is Olympic wrestling gold medalist Daniel Cormier and the european is Alexander Gusstaffson.
To answer your question simply no. To go more in depth. Gus was attempting to counter DC's high crotch variant with a standing kimuar (bent armbar, which is why you see him so focused on attacking the hand grip, another thing to keep in mind in terms of layers of defense, one of the first things people are coaches isn't reaching back and grabbing the head or neck, but rather hand fight and break the grip.
DC's high crotch throw, is aided by the use of the cage's wall. letting him use his shoulder to pin Gus, he's able to get more rotation and off balance (what judo calls kuzishi) because as Gus feels DC ease up pressure against the wall he naturally pushes a bit more harder, this gives DC's throw more momentum and speed to lift and slam him.
we call that a paintbrush or a figure four armlock in English, anon. Proper Japanese terminology 'ude garami' is also acceptable but please dont use foreign/and or made up words, that's childish.
Yea, now that I think I about I have zero training. My older brother was in JV wrestling and I would spar with him at home. I'd always lose. And then my 40yr old dad used to be in the airforce, so he'd smear my ass all of the time with grapples. lol thats probably all the training I had. And then I learned how to low-single in wrestling during freshmen year of highschool.
Theres an MMA gym near my neighborhood, but that costs money. Im 19, so my main focus is getting a job. Im just afraid of getting in a fight I cant avoid
you're 19, is it possible for you to go visit your old high school, and just ask one of the wrestling coaches or senior wrestlers for a few pointers? I coach at the highschool level myself and from time to time ill let kids who just graduated (like up to a year) go during open mat time.
every style has a lot of rules, that doesn't discredit good technique, stratgey and training that you can learn. Not trying to sound rude. But getting at least some wrestling training helps expand and build into other avenues later, if you want to do BJJ, MMA, Judo, sambo etc.
Learning how to shoot, learning how to sprawl learning how to control a scramble are all good skills that help enhance you as an individual.
When I learned low-single in highschool the coach told me Im not allowed to put my hand under my opponents stomach when I reached around. It got me frustrated because its an opening I couldnt use to help me get around. Or mabe the coach didnt want me to do that, idk that was the first and last time I did wrestling. If wrestling will help me defend myself in a fight I cannot avoid, then I'll try it out
Honestly any place with good training and good technique will aide you. Main thing is dont be a cock. Each style worth training has tools that can help you defend or subdue but its ultimately on how you train and implement those tools.
also what your coach is talking about is folk style, but you know there's a reason why there's greco and free style.
and just because there are rules doesnt mean refs don't suck and let a bunch of illegal stuff happen. Cheap shots and rule breaking happen at all levels and all styles/rulesets
The term paint brush is usually used to refer to the "v-lock" or "Americana" . Ude-garami also refers to the "v-lock" not the kimura. (Gyaku ude-garami is the term for a kimura).
Figure four arm-lock really isn't used either among grapplers. (Maybe in pro-wrestling? Kek). I mean for fucks sake, a figure four armlock could be at least 4 different submissions.
The proper english names for a kimura are "chicken-wing" or "double wrist lock". Chicken wing is usually preferred. Also, most people who are not autistic are fine with the term "kimura".
I personally use "v-lock" and "chicken wing" respectively because they paint a picture of what the lock looks like.
Tell them to stop being assholes. There's no point in stalling in a fucking roll. In a grappling match they would be called for stalling.
I live in northwest Florida by Alabama and Georgia, I can't find any fucking decent place to grapple.
About the farthest I can drive is Dothan Alabama.
Dothan has "Wolkpack MMA" with "MMA and aikido" and a judo class that meets two days a week.
There's also a judo gym in Dothan but they only meet two days a week at the same time as "Wolfpack" so I'm thinking it's the same program.
Marianna Florida has "premier boxing and MMA" which promises to teaching "the boxing and submission grappling needed for MMA".
Theres gotta be atleast 10-15 mcdojos teaching karate in the area though. There's even a fucking "Christian karate" place.
Is this really as bad as it seems to me guys?
Is there something I'm missing?
Anybody live near here that can help?
>dont use foreign/and or made up words, that's childish.
lmfao shut the fuck up idiot
why do wrestlers insist on fucking up good grappling threads
every bjj guy is chill, relaxed and respect other arts. only wrestlers and judokas get all insecure and accuse bjj guys of doing exactly what they do themselves
there has been some quality drop in terms of conversation of this thread and some people trying to bait everyone into shitty style vs style threads. we have had the same shit about how blank style is something against blank style, why not actually be productive and talk about something fruitful that everyone can learn about?
former judo guy here, maybe some bjj people can answer my question. so in judo your encouraged to stand up straight, but I was watching some BJJ comps and they took more of a wrestler stance. has bjj basically done away with the older judo stances?
I was also wondering if you ever see throws in comp other than grabbing the other guys legs, things like seoi nage and the like
In Judo, you are breaking the rules by not standing up straight and will be called for stalling.
In BJJ or Sambo which is more similar to Judo, you use a real and proper grappling stance.
You do see throws etc in BJJ, but they are not as common due to the stance making it harder. Also, many Judo throws have to be modified to work in a sport that is not devoted to Ippon.
DESU, many BJJ guys just jump guard, so you won't see much.
One of our guys who got his black belt this week has a pretty mean Drop Seoi Nage.
Our coach is more of a complete grappler, so our BJJ classes always feature takedowns, but they are usually geared towards working for BJJ.
IMO, the top takedowns for BJJ are:
Single Legs/High Crotch
Arm Drag Options ->Boot scoot, back take to bike rack, inside or outside trip
Foot sweeps and spin downs are very good options as well.
You sound like someone who's really good at finding reasons not to do the things you think you want to do.
>be on the ground
>tangled up with my opponent
>rip myself out of his lock and swing up
>throw a punch down
>he untangles himself last second and gets away
>end up punching myself in the dick
I fucking hate grapplers.
>we call that a paintbrush or a figure four armlock in English, anon. Proper Japanese terminology 'ude garami' is also acceptable but please dont use foreign/and or made up words, that's childish.
>thinking you're more correct than the hundreds of thousands of people who know it as 'kimura'
>We were fine without you faggot.
>slowest board on 4chan
and we did make this place
the first posts on this board were wrestling releated and was carried by wrestling until other people made other alt sports threads.
do some due diligence of the topic.
Books are shit compared to videos
Billy Robinson's DVD, Fujiwara Submission master, Josh Barnett's DVDs, and you should probably just get a subscription to Erik Paulson's website - it is like $30 for a month and it has a bajillion videos with more content than you could possibly ever use and it is all ready made for no-gi. You can also check out Gokor's DVDs.
depends on the books. a lot of victory belt published books beat the hell out of any shitty youtube videos and even premium dvds
with multiple in color photos and flow charts to chain the moves.
to bad they only make shitty paleo diet books now. all their MMA, BJJ, and grappling books were godly.
i heard that eddie brave spend one disk on his instructional to just him jamming out with his band and talking about weed instead of actuallly teaching moves, he has 2 instructionals on DVD rubber guard and twister, was it the twister one?
It would have been better if it was one DVD, but instead he just mixes it in with everything.
So, the rubber guard set is 3 DVDs. Only the 2nd DVD covers the rubberguard which is good because most people can't do it. The first DVD is the lockdown and some other stuff. The 3rd DVD has some escapes and some other stuff.
Each DVD starts out with an intro from Johnny Karate, which are extremely funny. The problem is that what follows is techniques with just random shit inbetween. For instance, several times there will be music videos in the middle of the DVD, Eddie Bravo in black face, punking his students, Joe Rogan talking about how much he loves Eddie...etc.
So if they put all the extra stuff on like a bonus DVD it would have been better than just being mixed in with everything else.
I really like Johnny Karate though.
The mastering the twister DVD is very profession and high quality. Both DVD sets do include good information though. His armbar game as explained in the twister DVD is top notch and has drastically improved my armbars, which were already one of my top submissions.
While we're talking about catch wrestling dvds, I'm looking at a thread on sherdog right now about legitimacy in catch, and one point that someone is bringing up a lot is that having a foundation in, say, BJJ and watching dvds and reading books to learn catch doesn't make a person a catch wrestler. The logic is that, because there's no actual instruction taking place and because the subtleties aren't there, they can't claim to actually know catch. On the flip side, there's so few places to learn it that dvds and books are the only option for most people. What do you guys think? Does learning catch wrestling from books and videos while you already have a solid foundation in a submission grappling art make you a catch wrestler, or just someone who grapples and knows a few catch wrestling techiques?
why you feeding a boring troll, every grappling thread has people shit posting how gay it is.
anyway lets get back on topic.
I don't know if this is even about "legitimacy. But if you learn something by books or videos and have no actual playground to try these techniques on a regular basis, you won't learn the details, you won't learn where the threats or oportunities of the technique are, you won't learn if you can apply it or not.
Also every martial art follows differnet strategies. Each catch wrestling (nowadays) has slightly differnt rules concerning submissions, but in every CACC system you can win by pinning - which means you lose if you have both shoulders on the ground for about 3 seconds.
Now imagine you apply those rules to BJJ: You put someone in your guard and have exactly 3 seconds before you lost the complete match! That would change a lot.
How many moves should you have mastered to be a successful wrestler? I'm a noob and when i practice i end up hesitating because i dont know which moves to do. Ive been having trouble remembering more than a couple moves and i was wondering how many i'd need to have mastered for me to git gud
honestly? 3 at most. For a season? Master 1.
Its the dilemma plenty of high school wrestling coaches face specially teaching freshmen or kids who have had no prior knowledge.
You want to get good at one shot or take down, one from top of ref position and one from bottom position
People seem to have no problem calling Josh Barnett a catch wrestler, but he's never competed in a single catch wrestling match.
You can train in catch wrestling. You can learn the moves. But really, it doesn't matter, its all just grappling.
Catch never had any sort of unified rules or anything in the first place.
Anyways, I think people are getting off track. The original person who brought up Catch wasn't interested in competing in Catch wrestling, he just wanted to supplement his grappling.
Personally, I just say I'm a submission wrestling or a grappler or whatever. It doesn't really matter. I've trained in catch wrestling since the beginning and added BJJ, wrestling, whatever shortly after. I've learned plenty of catch directly from my coaches, but I've also picked up a lot from the DVDs I listed earlier.
I don't see why people need to argue about it so much. I personally couldn't give 2 fucks about pinning, but a lot of the holds and positional control stuff I've learned is great.
I think you're an idiot that needs to figure out how to use google and get some common sense.
1. Google "4chan archive" to find out where /asp/ is archived
2. Go to the archived form of this thread
3. Go to either of those posts
4. Click the "View Same" button
5. Click on the only other result
6. Arrive at http://fgts.jp/asp/thread/728641/
Seriously, if you weren't such a massive retard you could've been in the thread in less than 2 minutes. Do your parents still have to wipe your ass for you?
>I don't see why people need to argue about it so much.
No need to argue here.. Anon asked "Does learning catch wrestling from books and videos while you already have a solid foundation in a submission grappling art make you a catch wrestler?" and I replied that you are a Catch wrestler if you train or compete at catch wrestling.
If someone trains BJJ and learns a bunch of Judo takedowns, is he already a Judoka? I woudn't say so.
If someone dedicates a lof of time to Catch Wrestling, trying to figure out the differnt setups and submissions and tries to train/teach/revive the art, that's a differnt story.
>inb4 B-but he started it!
THIS THREAD HAS GONE TO SHIT
TIME TO SAVE IT
WHAT MOVES ARE YOU MOTHERFUCKERS WORKING ON?
I am working on my guard game. Focusing on butterfly guard, half-guard with butterfly hook, spider guard, and inverting/granby rolls for guard retention.
I am also starting to use lapels to fuck shit up.
Always working on the low single brahs.
Trying to work my leglocks too. Working more on rolling kneebars, and "the truck" position.
I'm going to be in a new city for a seven-week period soon-ish. That's not long enough to actually learn all about a new martial art, but I could work on some aspect of fighting and give myself something to do in my free time, so I've thought about asking a local BJJ/submission wrestling place if they welcome visitors (and if I could pay less than their half-year fee, because I'm not made of money and will only attend for seven weeks).
My question is, what kind of policy do these places usually have regarding visitors? I have no previous experience in BJJ except the few times someone's shown me a couple of positions, but I'm eager to learn and bring no ego to the mat (I expect to tap out 95% of the time I'm there, but I'm sure it would teach me a lot about grappling on the ground). Can I assume that they'll welcome an almost complete newbie? I have a gi and a belt, of course.
>Do I literally just grab a guy's gi and push/pull him
I think you'd be way better off to grab the head (and arm) than gi. Then yes, literally push and pull him where you want.
You might as well ask "How do I throw someone".. Unbalancing is done in every throw and always in a slightly differnt manner. Some baic principles are lifting someone (for example using your "Tsurite"), pulling someone (using your "Hikite") and/or denying the other guy to land savely on his feet (i.e. Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi), to get beneath someone center of gravity (loading him on your hip), rotating his upper body in oh so many directions..
It's a lot of stuff going on there.
And what do expect "real Judo" to look like?
>So does kuzushi for a particular throw come with throw?
Uhm.. what are you trying to say?
Generally a Judo throw consists of multiple stages:
-Kake (excecute the throw)
But of course most of the times there's overlap of these stages..
Tori moves Uke clockwise (adding momentum, beginning of Kuzushi) then he pull him upwards (applying Kuzushi), makes a step and blocks Ukes feet (Tsukuri) and then rotates him so Uke falls to the ground (Kake / Ukemi).
>like in my animes ;_;
Makes your dream come true!