HEMA General - Historical European Martial Arts

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>looking good with a buckler

Anyone attending? http://hema-swiss-blades.ch/en/

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>>2993338
DON'T FORGET TO STRETCH!

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>>2993338
based medieval anime

>>2993390
Looks good but I haven't got time ;_;

>>2993390
Newcunt here, Dieter said it was full but I could perhaps squeeze my way in, but I'm busy then anyway

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>>2993529
I guess I'll post some more of of the anime I've found

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>>2993558

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>>2993561

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>>2993595

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>>2993600

>>2993527
>>2993558
>>2993561
>>2993595
>>2993600
>>2993607
There needs to be a sword&buckler manga and a high quality anime adaption.
We need to become
>Historical
>European
>Manga and
>Anime

ProGauntlet prototype shown at fightcamp looks good

>>2993760
Are you saying they ain't dead as disco?
Colour me surprised, to be honest. At this rate, they'll be out in time for Christmas 2020.

>>2993527
>left guy being like "everybody chill, I got this."

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Xth for Captain Alfred Hutton

>>2993760
any videos?

>>2994024
There's a short video in the HEMA Alliance facebook group
>>2993779
I guess so

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>>2994036
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Normiebook
somebody put that shit on youtube

>>2994036
they're really looking good, now only the price has be right

>>2993442
HAPPY BABY!!!

>>2993824
N-NANI?!

>>2993442
Happy baby looks a great position for procreation.

>>2994036
>>2994096
maybe Easton will make a video about them?

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>>2993824
x+8th for Cavaliere Luigi Barbasetti

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>>2993698
There's this one which is about Japanese Heavy fighting which is something between Hema and HMB.

Shoujo Kishidan x Knight Tale

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>>2995873
Also it's ecchi.

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>>2995213
I'm cleaning these bad boys up.
Stay tuned for Italian sabre goodness.

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>>2995890
And they're all girls and it's yuri as fuck.

>>2995892
>Stay tuned for Italian sabre goodness.
oh hell yes, please do!

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>buy a fantasy novel
>each chapter has a tiny illustration of a knight at the beginning
>they are all doing poses from the getty
Interesting, seems like this thread is already going the "Hema in fiction" route.

Are there historical sauces about throwing javelins and spears?

>>2996353
I've heard there is something in armored combat manuals about spear throwing, but I haven't seen it myself

>>2996353
nope, javelins where not in use anymore by the time pragmatic scripture returns.

>>2996353
Well Fiore has a couple of things about defending from thrown spears (and thrown swords), but not really on the practice of it.

>>2996584
Same for Marozzo (or was it Manciolino?)

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>>2995873
>>2995890
>>2995899

How do I land effective strikes against the evil lefties in my club, especially when we're using weapons like a singlestick or dussack, or sword and buckler?

>>2997589
Practice left handed, most lefties (just like righties) can't deal with left handed fighters

>>2997589
Go for the in-fight and pommelstrike the shit out the abomination!

Thokk finished his first pair of gloves and they look so great

>>2997918
Where did you learn this? I'd love to see some footage or more detailed news

>>2997942
not him but he posted it on facebook 20 hours ago:
>https://www facebook com/thokkhistoricalfencing
>Armor is coming...
>A King was born among HEMA gloves.
>Ladies any Gentlemen, the *THOKK-Personal Armor* WeaponMaster Gauntlets!
and in a comment:
>This is the glove nr 1.
>The alpha.
>On this, the review gloves are going to be made and sent to partners briefly.

>>2997967
I found that myself moments after I posted, I'm feeling a bit daft for not just quickly doing the research myself before opening my big dumb mouth

I'm hype as fuck at the moment, if Thokk gloves are progressing so fast, and ProGauntlet really isn't dead, then the standards of our gloves are on the brink of being raised massively.

>>2997942
From his facebook page. A the moment there are just two pics and a short post

>>2998009
>I'm hype as fuck
Is this your first glove newsblurp?
I'm exited when they actually go into production.

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>>2995892
you have my total attention now

>>2997459
Don't get too excited, I read through it last time someone posted it here and it's terrible. The writing is your typical anime garbage fire.

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Anybidy ever handle a steel dussack? How do they compare to the training ones in terms of handling, balance, etc.?

>>2998829
Were steel dussack a thing in the first place?

>>2998864
I mean, the steel dussack was similar to a storta or other later falchions, as far as I know. The waster made of wood and leather had a different, simplified shape. I'm not sure a steel dussack with the shape of a wooden dussack would make sense.

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Afaik, lots of different types over time with not fully clear origins.

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>>2998829
Like the others said, a dussack or dussägge is just a complex-hilted German sabre. The one in your pic is nonsense; the leather one just looks that way because it's designed to be a relatively safe and cheap way to practice the hewing blows used in dussack-fighting at full strength and speed.

Specifically as I understand it there's a lot of cutting into an opponent's blow to displace it and ideally hit in the same action, rather than the parries of the more familiar 19th century military saber – shit that if you get the timing or measure wrong, can really hurt your drilling partner if you don't have a fairly springy traning waster.

(Pic related; a blow to the arm, even)

>>2999249
>The one in your pic is nonsense;
Thats the question, the Bohemian weapon of Tesseck might have just looked like that and was the origin of at least the name Dussack.

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>>2995892
>>2998721
>>2995969
Here we gooo

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>>2999819
Ooooh

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>>2999823
Yeeeeah

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>>2999831
I'll post different angles later if there's enough interest.

>here's my old collection btw

>>2999819
>>2999823
>>2999831
>>2999843
Very nice sweater.
The sabres are pretty nice too. I especially like the the sword that's chained to the dagger in your old collection.
Keep on keeping on

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Dripping some amines

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Last one

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The secret technique to winning every sword fight

>>2999981
Fiore dei Liberi's classic technique.

>>2999819
>>2999823
>>2999831
wow, how did you clean it so well?

Handgonne is best

>>2999992
And, do we know of any manuals describing how to use them?

>>2999981
Pictured, we have an illustration of the iconic dual where Wojak gets his dick sucked so hard that he loses all his hair. Leaving him so dishonored that he never got a gf

>all that korean and medieval anime
this is probably the best thread on 4chan atm

What's the best European weapon/tradition for people with a background in Eastern weapons arts like kenjutsu, iaido, kobudo, wushudo, etc., or does it matter at all?

>>2999917
>>2999920
>>2999923
>>2999937
>>2999943
>>2999946
>>2999950
>>2999954
>>2999962
>>2999967
>>2999971
why are girls with weapons so fucking hot?

>>2999971
>>2999967
>>2999962
>>2999954
>>2999950
>>2999946
>>2999943
>>2999937
>>2999923
>>2999920
>>2999917
blog of this Korean Fechtboo?

>>3000142
Not the anon who posted those but a quick search gave me that:
>https://gailtonatiu.deviantart.com/gallery/

>>2999911
Thanks :D
>>2999990
Soaked them in a bucket of linseed oil to loosen the parts.

Carefully took them apart, gave a gentle rub to removed thin surface rust-dust, and washed off said oil.

Then left them in a bucket (for the guards), and piece of vertical pipe (for the blades) filled with cleaning vinegar for 24-48 hours.

Took them out, cleaned off the big parts of rust or the loosest parts, then put them back in for 24-48 hours.

Lastly, took them out again and cleaned off as much remaining rust as I could, then let them soak again in linseed oil for 24-48 hours.

One last rub down and they're done.

I learned a lot, can't wait to improve the process for their counterparts (they all came as pairs).

>>3000027
>or does it matter at all?
It doesn't matter.
But the go to tradition is Lichtenauer.
There are multiple images online comparing the two.

>>3000142
>@gailtonatiu on twitter
>Erika on pixiv for the feder tanktop girl

>>3000147
We have to go deeper:
>https://twitter.com/gailtonatiu?lang=en
>http://piratarum.egloos.com/

>>3000027
It doesn't really matter. What matters is, do you want to do something that isn't very far or something quite different?
One thing that isn't really there in Japanese martial arts is any sort of long one-handed sword and the closer to the typical kenjutsu will probably be any sort of longsword.

Besides, chinese, okinawan and japanese martial arts are quite different themselves, so it's not exactly like it's "eastern vs western" when there's already a this "eastern vs that eastern" (not vs as against but as compared to obviously).

As a personnal point, I'm doing japanese martial arts which is mainly sword and polearms and what I'm looking at in HEMA is second half of the 16th century one-handed sword stuff, because there's nothing quite like it in Japan, and it's roughly the same period as the japanese style I'm studying.

In the end, it's a hobby so... what looks fun to you?

>>3000156
>>3000161
>http://blog.naver.com/gailtonatiu

>>3000154
Coming from the jsa part, most of those images (hell all the images I have seen really) aren't that good and aren't understanding what's going on in what they show. There is no inner understanding of the systems (or only one of the two), just comparing pictures.

There is a difference between comparing styles and illustrations. I could take images of Fiore and 44.a.8 or Paurnfeyndt and show you lots of similarities, doesn't mean the spirit of the systems are the same at all.

That's the problem with putting too much weight in images, as many masters pointed out. If you were comparing words of the masters now...

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>>2999989
>Fiore dei Liberi's classic technique.
>Not Wallerstein's Germanic buggery; also known as the "Liechtenauer Special"...

Nice try you cheeky fechtkunt...

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>>3000161
nice!

>>3000209
That's cute

>>3000509
You're cute

Why is it that most treatises seem to be primarily concerned with fights between two people with identical weapons?
It only seems sensible from a dueling standpoint, from a self-defence/military perspective where you have no control over what the armament of your opponent is, it seems illogical. What are some examples of treatises that cover uneven weapon matchups?

>>3000616
>Why is it that most treatises seem to be primarily concerned with fights between two people with identical weapons?
>It only seems sensible from a dueling standpoint
Because most hema treatises are about gentlemanly duelling or "friendly" fencing, not a lot are that interested in what works "on the streetz" (but Jacopo Monesi, yes I'm looking at you!).

Though for instance: Fiore has several types of mixed weaponry (sword, dagger, spear fighting each other, stick against dagger as well). Mair has like a dozen of mixed plays as well for lots of weapons. Then you have examples of "peculiar plays", but it's mostly for originality rather than practicality (sword and dagger vs sword and lantern).

>>3000616
Because they're mostly duel treatises.
War manuals focus more on tactics and strategy than individual fighting techniques.
Talking about self-defence, there's more to know than just a few tricks.

So, does anyone have the tournament results for Fightcamp? They don't seem to be posted officially yet.

>>3000703
>>3000708
There is tons of dirty work in dagger, Abrazzare is a war crime, Hugo Wittenwiller wrote about the high art of tavern brawls with different weapons, Montate teaches you how to clear a street or a ship and many 18th/19th century manuals have a special section on how to gentlemanly beat the bloody shit out of peasants.

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>dirty work in dagger

>>3000817
He must be really confident about his codpiece.

>>3000616
Because uneven weapons and "da alleys" techniques are basically one-two moves. Effective, but can be covered in one picture or a single paragraph.

>>3000976
This is the correct answer. If a guy jumps you with a dagger in the street, the question pretty much entirely boils down to "do you get your sword out in time to parry his blow?". If yes, now you have him at your mercy and you can do pretty much whatever if you've attended to your basic lessons of sword against sword. If no, now you're stabbed.

Longsword treatises fairly universally have pieces on longsword against polearm, which is something that would probably have come up pretty often in battle; but there again it's ultimately a fairly simple routine.
>you must parry his blows, then step in
>if you failed, you are now stabbed/chopped
>if you succeeded, you are now inside his effective range. Does he have a sidearm similar to yours that he can drop the polearm for?
>if yes: GOTO SORD
>if no: HE DED

there's just not a lot of depth in it, added to which your own weapon still uses the same fundamental principles as when fighting a matched weapon, so masters will often say something like "here's the outline of working against a <thing>; if you really understand the principles of Book 1 you can extrapolate the rest".

Who was at Fightcamp?

>>3001523
not me

>>3001523
me neither

>>3001523
I was

>>3003357
How was it?

>>3003461
Pretty good
Watch out for rabbit holes is my advice

>>3003539
"A Farewell to Ankles" by Matt Easton.

>>3003539
>>3005181
Did somebody break a leg?

What weapon, lacking any known manuscript/ treatise, do you most wish did?

>>3006600
>What weapon, lacking any known manuscript/ treatise
German Zweihänder!
I'd really like to know if they're used like longswords, halberds or in some other way...

>>3006600
Untouched weapons or any treatise we know existed but we can't find it?
I wish we had René Descartes's fencing treatise...
This or french bâton à deux bouts that is actually from french sources and not Pascha.

>>3006600
French anything before the rapier and not le Jeu de la Hache. Like French longsword or anything like that.

>>3006600
Arming sword and heater shield

Time for an opinion you never asked for.
Too many newbies rush to competition with steel. Especially in longsword clubs. This makes the financial burden too high and the tournament itself daunting due to the wide variety of opponents using steel.

In my opinion, a student is better off with plastic and to buy safety gear. Get them sparring for a good and long time.
They should buy a cheap cutter somewhere in this time.

Only after this and after lots of good training and sparring with plastic should the steel be introduced.
And every rookie tournament should use plastic as the medium.

Also you should have a grappling class to go along with your longsword.

Also after the basics of the system are learned, a student should be encouraged to start looking at a second weapon to train.

Also they should avoid complex techniques in sparring until they can look at a video and see good form from start to finish.

Also your club should record sparring footage. It is a massively useful tool.
Also your club should support each other at tournaments. You're a team.

Also. You need more athleticism in your club.

>>3007083
I agree on many points

>>3007083
This is true. As soon as I started I was only thinking about when I could buy a feder, but after attending some tournaments I realized that I still need a lot of training before I can progress to steel. Imho until you can go past at least 2 rounds with plastic you shouldn't even think about steel. I watched too many steel bouts that looked like the guys took 6 months of classes then decided to buy a feder

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>>3006600
Basically anything involving shields from before the 14th century. Heater shields, kite shields, centre-gripped shields, all that sort of fighting interests me greatly but isn't covered.
The closest we can get are Rotella and Marozzo's Imbracciatura

>>3007083
I don't think competition should be HEMA's main drive. My interest lies in trying to learn how they fought back then, not how to win under a specific ruleset. I'm beating a dead horse by saying this, but "sportification" really is an issue.

However regarding Nylons and stuff, I would find it immensely interesting to see Black Fencer Sharp Simulators used in a competitive environment. I'd love to see if it changes how people fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV22g5oHHDI

>>3006600
I wish there was an ancient Greek treatise on the use of arms. They were so literate that it doesn't seem unreasonable that one could have existed, especially since guys like Xenophon and Aristotle wrote about fucking everything.

>>3007083
I don't see any reason to use synthetic over steel other than price. If a new student has the money and is willing to make the investment what's the problem? I personally enjoy training with a feder much more than a synthetic. The only time I don't use one is if my drilling partner doesn't, to avoid chewing up his weapon.

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>>3000134
because you secretly cave for tomboys i guess.

last imcf tournament had the jap. woman's duel category fighter was the absolute bae of the whole tournament tho.

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>>3008089
crave* also duming one more, because i can.

>>3007552
I think competitions needs changing rulesets. So how things are grades, what does and doesn't count as a score-able hit, how double hits are handles, grappling or no grappling, and ect. The rules for any particular tournament should be posted 2-3 weeks before it begins, tops. That way participants can't make a "tournament style" since what works under one ruleset may disadvantage you under the next so all you can do is study correct technique.

>>3008437
I want to understand

>>3005259
Replace break with sprain and leg with several peoples' ankles

>>3006600
A full English longsword system from around 1400-1500

>>3008943
I think it's loss

>>3009072
>this will never happen

>>3009072
Ah fuck, good one.
>>3009051
what happened?

>>3007083
>You're a team
Like a sports team? You should support people in your club because they're your friends, not so that your "team" can beat the other "teams."

And I don't see any reason not to use steel as early as possible. Your complaints seem to be more about sparring generally, rather than anything specific to steel.

>>3008093
>>3008089
Thos faulds don't lie bby

>>3011831
Based Mair, he'd browse /hema/ for sure

>>3012262
why continue when he got hit in the head?

>>3012845
To make sure.
It's both martially and referee-helpingly sound.

>>3013064
Bullshit, vorschlag clearly connected to the head, then white jacket moves from left pflug to right ochs and does a rotation strike. Fight was over two tempi before.
Also, nice footwork there black jacket.

>>3013070
>Fight was over two tempi before.
Then let's hope the referee saw it, I've learned from experience (at least for tournaments) to never stop until the referee calls a halt.
In a friendly sparring you obviously stop after getting a thrust to the face

>>3013077
>to never stop until the referee calls a halt.
But thats wrong! Swedish scoring system with the 4 flags is retarded.

>>3013070
>Bullshit, vorschlag clearly connected to the head
Of course. So? That doesn't absolve you from covering yourself while getting out, which black jacket doesn't even do -- he just walks onto white for no reason.

It's a fair cop to throw the afterblow for that exact reason and in a case like this one I would have given white the point for it.

>>3013105
>clear and forceful hit
>two tempi action for afterblow
>I would have given white the point for it.
highly questionable decision.

>>3013105
>It's a fair cop to throw the afterblow
>get hit in the face real hard
>change from low left to high right and do a rotation strike
that ain't after blow no more. thats two moves done in two different tempi. 3 points black.

>>3013114
>>3013125
The longer the afterblow takes to form, the more shameful it is that black's still just standing there, tb h. The fact that neither of you even comments on the crucial point shows how slam-dunk it is; point to white, SHAMEFUR DISPRAY BRACK.

>>3013144
>point to white
In no way whatsoever, maybe a double hit but giving white even a single point would just be stupid.
You're right though, black should've done a abziehen or anything instead of standing around

>>3013144
>The longer the afterblow takes to form, the more shameful it is that black's still just standing there, tb h
Yes, this was addressed here>>3013070
>Also, nice footwork there black jacket.

.>>3013144
>point to white,
>I don't like what black is doing, so I award white a point, which is against the rules and common sense
In a fight with sharps, white would have had a a blade trough his temple and be long dead before he could switch guards and do a twer. And thats why black gets 3 points and white gets none.

>>3009561
Stepping in rabbit holes while sparring and spraining ankles

>>3013162
war is hell!

>>3013167
And by ankles I mean my ankle

>>3013158
>In no way whatsoever, maybe a double hit but giving white even a single point would just be stupid.
Oh, maybe this is just a misunderstanding: in my local rules afterblow gives the first hitter two points instead of whatever (five for a thrust to the face as in this case), and the second hitter one point. So what I was saying is black 2, white 1.

>>3013160
>long dead
That's just wrong however, you just can't make that kind of assumption about any sword wound, they can kill instantly, in days or not at all. That's exactly why we have rules for afterblows.

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>>3013396
You got one tempi for an afterblow, not two.
Also, full head hit makes things very easy for ref.

>>3013457
The nature of wounds and their lethality is incredibly strange.

We've very used to video games and movies and stuff, where the result of someone getting hit in a certain place by a certain weapon is always guaranteed.

When we look at real combat both modern and past, shit gets pretty complicated. People have kept fighting, for example, after literally being shot in the face by a rifle bullet, and having it somehow not hit anything too vital.
Other times, people drop in shock from a superficial wounds and are effectively incapacitated.

When it comes to sword wounds and melee weapons in general, the results of people getting hit oftentimes seem to have been wildly inconsistent. Sometimes a head wound will instantly kill. Other times people with the most appalling head wounds not only survived, but kept fighting.

With thrusts we have reports of people being run through multiple times and keep fighting. We also have accounts where a shallow stab wound at just the right place basically dropped the guy.

Source:
>The bald sword man's favourite book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF_K-P0AwfI

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Looks like guy in white was about to displace the opponent thrust and then attack. He clearly didn't manage time and measure well and got thrusted in the face. After getting hit, he first displaced the opponent blade, then changed direction and attacked. How realistic is to do so with a blade stuck in the face?

>>3013457
>one tempi
If you want to use this terminology at least use it correctly – tempi is plural. One tempo.

>>3013160
>>In a fight with sharps

You don't fight with sharp. You fight with a bluntsword like in fechtschulen of old (and with more protection) Black should not have attacked without being able to protect himself first.

>>3013870
fight as if they were sharps, if you fight like you are using the blunts then it only encourages sport fencing behavior.
white should have protected himself from the thrust. White also displaced blacks blade in order to attach him. if they had used sharps and the trust didn't kill him, white would not be able to displace the sword, thus, would not have been able to make that attack in the first place.

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Swiss-starting-HEMA-in-like-a-week-fag here, I was wondering roughly how much money you guys spent on HEMA gear in the first few months/year or so.

>>3013970
The most expensive thing I got the first year was a gambeson, second year a gajardoni mask, but if you don't have a weirdly small head you can spend less if you get a sport fencing mask. Next thing I wanna buy are gloves. My advice would be focus on protection first, mask/gloves, a jacket, breast plate if grill/crotch protection if boi. When you have a decent kit you can think about other things like weapons etc

>>3014004
When it comes to drilling with a partner and stuff, wouldn't you want a mask and gloves first?
A jacket as your only protection doesn't sound very practical

>>3014069
Yeah, you should go Helmet, Gloves, Jacket, then whatever.

I think he went by $$$, $$, $

>>3014120
Ah, okay.

Looking around, I've noticed some manufacturers make "beginner" equipment (for example Neyman Novice Jacket).
This strikes me as kinda dumb, shouldn't I be thinking "buy once, cry once" if I'm sure I wanna do HEMA?

>>3014150
Not everyone thinks that, and if it seems to save them money in the short run they'll go for it. And they deserve to give their money to people who provide that.

>>3014069
Yeah, absolutely, I only bought the gambeson first because I found it on sale and my school has masks/gloves students can use

>>3013970
>basic 350N mask, red dragon gloves, groin protection, red dragon kneeguards
>SPES fingertips
>black armoury jacket (mandatory here or you get kicked out of events unless you are not French), spes lobsters
>spes pants, spes leg guards, spes forearms and elbows (good for dagger and bastoncello)
>LP HEMA mask, LP gorget (works for me, other hates it), LP BOHP (don't buy it)
>neyman inigo montoya (not as good as I thought it would be, amazing thumb protection though), neyman kneeguards (may be their best product), neyman pants (I prefer the spes)
That's all the protective gear I bought during my first year of HEMA in the approximate order of purchases, in my defence I almost lost an eye getting involved with idiot reenactors before starting HEMA, so I may be a bit paranoid about protective gear.

The best tip I could give is to try out gear if you can and to skip the cheap gloves/masks. For 350€ you can have a decent pair of gloves likes the spes, sparring gloves or thokks, a good HEMA mask which would last you a couple of years, and some form of groin protection. Thinking long term for your starting gear is something I'd recommend.

>>3014916
>basic 350N mask,
>bad idea!

>>3014150
>shouldn't I be thinking "buy once, cry once" if I'm sure I wanna do HEMA?
*If* you're sure, yeah. But a lot of people just come in out of curiosity and don't know if it'll be a thing they want to stick with, and for them being able to invest less money in getting into sparring is a good thing.

It's also great for clubs getting loaner kit for newbies. These articles don't *need* to stand up to more than beginner use, and being able to get them cheaper means being able to buy more loaner gear.

(A third thing is that very occasionally – not often, but sometimes – a guy who does HEMA ends up becoming a *gearfag* who's never satisfied with his kit and keeps buying new shit. In that case it might be wholesome to start with as low an expense as possible on the first round of discards, but that's no doubt irrelevant, as surely nobody in this thread would do that kind of thing.)

But yeah, if you know HEMA's your jam, you should get as good a mask especially as you can upfront.

>>3014916
>black armoury jacket (mandatory here or you get kicked out of events unless you are not French)
that's oddly specific

>>3015141
It's probably because of the superior collar and thus throat protection on the BA jacket.

>>3013101
>>3013160
>In a fight with sharps
>But that's wrong!
>ignores countless historically documented cases of people being struck mortally but continuing to fight.
This >>3013690
I had a friend who was in MMA for a decade. The thing that killed him (rip Mark, miss you buddy) was him bumping his head getting in to his car one morning.

>>3013767
We're probably dealing with an American who does "Fior" or "Tibult".

>>3015370
Tough luck.
Still, full hit to the had is three points and after blow has to be within one tempo. Deal with it.

>>3015118
>a guy who does HEMA ends up becoming a *gearfag*

>I don't know who my resident gearfag is
>*looks in HEMA bag*

It's me.

>>3015380
Under one specific set of sword-tag rules, sure. I'd agree that the afterblow was too late, but I don't fault him for taking it. Black should have covered.

>>3015141
Are they a French company? Or maybe someone's brother in law is the authorized reseller.

>>3015209
>superior collar
Only the French could call something so ugly "superior".
A bit like your women...

>>3015405
>Under one specific set of sword-tag rules,
pretty much all European tournaments have the one tempo rule for the afterblow. I think the larger americans also. Exactly for the reason not to argue with sperglords like you about imagined head wounds and how well you would perform if you wouldn't have been smacked in the face two tempi before...

>>3015405
Wait, are you 0 lessons guy, talking about shit you don't know again? Man, Dieter is so gonna lick you in shape.

>>3015420
hey retard, I said I agree that the afterblow was too late. not by much, though; it was a high mittel, not a zwerch, and he had already started moving. the strike to the head probably would have stopped it, either way. I just don't like reducing everything to point values.

>>3015425
no. and who the fuck is dieter?

>>3015473
>no. and who the fuck is dieter?
never mind then

>>3013970
In the first year I only got:
- PBT 1600N standard mask
- PBT throat protector
- some Kali gloves (more than enough until I got into sparring)
- Berbekucz Feder

In the second year I got
- AP standard jacket
- SPES Locust pants
- SPES Heavy Gloves (soon to be replaced by Sparring Gloves)
- SPES Shin Guards
- SPES Elbow Guards

Now I'm getting a Regenyei Feder (just to compare, I'm very satisfied with Berbekucz), the Sparring Gloves and in a year or two I'll get the Neyman jacket and pants and probably better shin guards (I'm not all too happy with the SPES ones)

>>3015118
>a guy who does HEMA ends up becoming a *gearfag* who's never satisfied with his kit and keeps buying new shit
I'm not even ashamed

>>3015141
It was a joke, the few events I went to, I'd say 3 out of 4 French were wearing it.

>>3015473
>and he had already started moving
But he didn't

>>3013939

If you want to simulate something go do some larp then. Enven in fechtschulen they don't do that : they are fighting with blunt swords used them as it, not simulating sharps (read again phm, meyer, falkner and the others)

>>Encouraging sportfencing behaviour.
You see sportfencing already exists 450 years ago, fechtschulen for instance.
Without any head protection, you don't need a lot of strength and speed to wound your opponant. And you don't want to be hit either.

>>Wanting to kill every opponent
Most of fechtschule and salle d'armes rules forbid to wound your opponent.

And because you don't simulate sharp sword that doen't mean to have to do tag hit.

>>3017118
While it doesn't pertain to Longsword, didn't some masters actually say you should at drill on occasion with sharp swords?
It's a known fact that sharp swords behave differently to blunt ones, and if you're preparing for a fight with sharps, you'd probably want to understand these differences.
Angelo Viggiani seems to have insisted on always practicing with sharps.

I suppose it also depends heavily on what the curriculum, and the goal of the teaching. As you said yourself, Fechtschulen were often about sporting use of the longsword. Other masters and schools might be more concerned with self-defence, military training and duels.

Personally, I think that if your goal is to learn swordsmanship, to me that would entail learning how to use a sharp sword effectively. This also means that things like cutting skill must be included. It's always irritated me to see someone "score" with a Gaissler that basically hit with the flat.

>>3017193
not the same anon but
>Angelo Viggiani seems to have insisted on always practicing with sharps.
Not really, what Viggiani is showing is trick-fencing really, in that he says to use sharps to get the proper feeling, not that you should always use them. He wants his conte to feel something veryreal when a sharp sword is directly pointed at his eyes. This is clearly not salle fencing. Also, you have to remember that he is instructing people who are all having swords at their side (first half of the 16th c.), by using sharps he is having them remember that it's not a fashion accessory, but a deadly weapon that has to be trained as such because it is used as such. Yet he doesn't say to always use sharps, only to use them when it makes sense or to make a point.
But Viggiani really is its own thing, he is hard to pinpoint clearly and we have very limited view about his instruction and where/to whom he taught, it's clearly not salle fencing though, there is definitely innovative stuff in his book, but it's probably not a good idea to elevate him as a cannon of fencing either. Many times, he is just this guy who keeps on wanting to do stuff the opposite way of the common teachings, or differentely anyway.

>>2993338
Sharp swords are essential training devices, at least if you care about historical swordsmanship beyond sparring matches.

>>3018629
do you mean for test cutting of for fencing?

>>3018741
drilling, at least among the experienced

>>3015035
For twice the price, you'll get something that you can use everywhere, I'm not saying 350N is shit, I'm saying 1600N is better. Why pass on it if you can afford it?

>>3015405
Yup, it's a French company.

Which manual for montante/spadone?

>>3015377
That one fag ITT who keeps trying to correct others about rapier and acting like he knows shit but then consistently spells it "Thibulet" cracks me up everytime desu

>>3019570
>>3015377
>You got one tempi for an afterblow, not two.
>two tempi
are you guys just stupid or highly autistic?

>>3019613
I'm just gonna go ahead and suggest you quietly delete this post for your own sake, maybe after thinking for two seconds about whether you'd call "one cakes, not two" correct grammar. Otherwise there will be a monument to your retardation in the thread and that might shame you every time you look at it.

>>3019029
>I'm saying 1600N is better.
But it's irrelevant as that rating is for the bib, not mask part. Even 1600N "rated" masks can get dented to shit.

>>3019644
Go fuck yourself you stupid prick. I speak 4 different languages fluently and frankly didn't came here for grammar Nazi discussions with Aussie shitposters,
>enjoy muh backsword, because thats all you'll ever get

>>3019702
>I speak 4 different languages fluently
None of which is English, apparently.

>>3019678
No shit Sherlock? Just turns out that 350N foil masks are unsuitable for HEMA safe for maybe small sword. 1600ers normally got a heavier grill. Thats why literally every club advises to not buy a 350N mask.

>>3019709
Well, you understand me, don't you? Now fuck off and think about why you don't have any friends.

>>3019709
>English
Tempo/Tempi is English now? Really?

>>3019724
English is the all you can eat buffet of languages, it has words, spelling, and grammatical structures from anything it can Get it's hands on

>>3019831
Tempo/Tempi is Latin afaik, not English.
Still begs the question why you behave like a full out asshole just because someone didn't use a rare irregular plural form correctly.

>>3019847
Tempo is in the English dictionary, it's English too, also I'm a different guy.

buckler is gay

>>3020714
it's ok to have wrong opinions

>>3020714
Buckler is fun and probably the most interesting to watch

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>>3020714
>hating bucklers
>on a Manchurian butter-churning board

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>>3020714
no u

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>>3012262

>>2993338
Rapier is the best t b h

>>3022122
Smallsword > rapier

>>3022375
Do you really think someone would do that, just go on the Internet and tell lies?

Are backedge blows coming from your right side okay in Fiore? He mentions them coming from the left especially from boar's tooth but I don't see them mentioned anywhere else.

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Why's this thread been so slow the past two days?

DISCUSS SWORDS YOU FAGGOTS

>>3022375
>Glorified pimp cane > optimal sword
Top joke, anon! I almost choked myself laughing.

>>3025380
Weather is too good for internets.

Why does a properly curved, fairly broad sabre blade specialized for cutting seem to always go with minimal hand protection? Usually just a crossguard and knucklebow.

>>3025805
Because a bigger guard fucks up balance and you want it fairly forward in order to maximize cutting ability?

iirc, Maxime Chouinard talks about this in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehfp6fPjwpA

Dussack could have a fairly complex and elaborated guard though, as a counter-example.

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>>3025805
>what did he mean by this?

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>>3025805
cutters come in all flavors, just pick your style. that said, crosguard/knucklebow combo makes for a good low drag high speed weapon.

>>3025523
>optimal sword
Meh, too long

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>>3026533
More like not long enough

>>3025890
You have beautiful skin, my negro.

>>3025890
Is that a Schnepf?

>>3025890

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>>3030129
God, that's the most Swiss word there is.

>Ruedi, this sword we created is something truly amazing, combining elegance with brutal efficiency. What should we call it?
>Let's name it after the animal it resembles the most. Nothing matches the elegance of a SCHNÄÄÄÄÄÄÄPF

>>3030346
words with more than one syllable are overrated anyways..

>>3029629
I'm pretty sure that's a leather bracer, especially if you watch the fold of the gloves near the wrist

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>>3030129

>>3031455
Warum Bronzezeit?

>>3031594
They found it next to a gallery of bronze clocks.

>>3032421
Wortwitz, I love it maggle.

>>3032445
German, French or English, pick one, I'm getting lost in translation there.

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>>3032471
Whats french?

>>3032525
>maggle
It's a way to mispell "ma gueule" on the French interwebz. Which could be transposed to "mahdood". So I read "Puns, I love it mahdood". And it fucked with my brains.

>>3031455
where's the POB on that thing? it's an awful lot of hilt for that short of a blade

>>3035307
>short of a blade
thats a real long blade with a hand and a half handle

>>3035528
Look at the gloves next to the handle. What sort of tiny baby hands do you have that you could get both of them on there?

>>3037482
not my pic, and the gloves are size 10, thats xl.

There's not a hema class within 100 miles of me, but I want to learn the basic drills just to experience it. Is there an online resource that shows all the stances and attacks and such?

since you guys handle many swords, has anyone here ever handled a belt sword?

http://www.razorrazor.com/site/products/beltsword-weapon-system-razorsword/

I find this weapon so bizarre.

>>3025393
Knigga throws that hat in your face and you''l be knocked the fuck out werldstar style

>>3025523
>Glorified pimp cane
McBane was a pimp.
So yes.
Where my smallsword wenches at?

>>3025805
>>3025862
>>3025839
>>3025890
As a Silverist/Broadsworder, a complex guard on shorter cucking weapons is GOAT.
Time of The Hand all up in there.
And Meyer with a complex hilted dussack/"Sinclair Sabre"? Fucking amazing
>but goodbye wrists.

>>3030346
which manuals can I learn that style of footwork in pls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_SGkqrrdM
swiggy swooty

>>3039718
That was a ceremonial sword. Not practical for actual combat

>>3039308
>all the stances and attacks and such
Which weapon?

>>3039811
>a complex guard on shorter cucking weapons is GOAT.
>shorter cucking weapons
Looks like autocorrect got you good, sucker.

>>3039811
Don't confuse a Schnepf with a Sinclair hilt, different animal.

>>3039901

>Which weapon?

Longsword. A friend of mine gifted me a red dragon Longsword waster. He bought it for himself but got bored with it. So now I have a plastic training sword.

>>3041727
I got you pham, say no more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OgaIuzROrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8N-UomXAZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgDcCNNaIRY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9whFajLZnU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BU1HnpmVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrx52CVK29A

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Anybody doing di Grassi? How is it?

>>3042153

Thanks. Very much appreciated.

>>>/wsg/1837728
There is a swordfighting thread on wsg.

>>3039800
>Where my smallsword wenches at?
In the style of McBane, you have to take over the local gambling/whoring establishment before you get access to the wenches.

>>3042684
>Anybody doing di Grassi?
I did/do.
He's basically rapier with a sidesword.
However it is fun. Simple enough to follow and practice without too much effort.
8/10

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Dutch Lions Cup-tournament grouping has been announced. Excited as fuck about the people I have to fight. Honestly aiming for top 3 if luck is heavily on my side.

Anyone else into the tournament scene? What do you do to prep before and during the day itself?

>>3043714
I only went to 2 tournaments, never went after the first selection. Im a total noob

>>3043714
Prep? I usually stay up real late drinking the night before, then stuff myself with greasy food, ibuprofen, and caffeine in the morning. Does that count?

I try to spar a little, shortly before the matches, but that's really about it.

How long until you get proficient in sword&buckler?
How long until you get proficient in longsword?
How long until you get proficient in rapier?
How long until you get proficient in saber?

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>>3047449
Notice the finger over the guard, painting is very early 15th c. (around 1409).

>>3047417
>How long until you get proficient in sword&buckler?
>How long until you get proficient in longsword?
>How long until you get proficient in rapier?
>How long until you get proficient in saber?
As long as it takes.

>>3047488
thanks

>>2993338
Ok, it's a little bit silly and all but I was looking for really short treatises/author's works, the kind that takes like... 5-6 pages max. Just so that it's not possible to respond that "those old texts takes too long to read".

The three obvious ones that went through my mind were:
>rapier
Patenostrier
>sword and buckler
Lignitzer (you could even get his dagger and wrestling work too, considering his s&b plays takes like half a page)
>sabre
Le Marchant

If you have anything else along those lines?

>>3043558
I decided to read it on a whim since I felt the Bolognese stuff was a bit too much for me, what with all the assalti and how Marozzo quickly jumps to them. Manciolino is cool since he actually describes the guards and has plays in each guard before the assaults.

I am so glad di Grassi took the time to explain stuff before the plays which they themselves are incredibly short and sweet, though I have to say his footwork section in the introduction is still a bit unclear to me. But that might just be the centuries-old translation. In which case, how different is Jherek's modern translation?

>rapier with a sidesword
The English kept differentiating between sword and rapier even when the originals just used "sword". What was their definition back then?

>>3008479
this

>>3047417
How old are you? Do you have a background in martial arts? How much do you train? How good are you at learning? How good is your instructor ad teaching? How many people do you train with? How good are they?

>>3047670
Studying short treatises usually implies you already know the general tradition they belong

>>2993338
Hey HEMA bros, how often did sparring/freeplay occur in fencing training historically? Almost everything I've read regarding eastern weapons training states that freeplay in those systems was very rare and i'm wondering if the same is true for western systems.

>>3048728
Quite often if you take accounts about bolognese fencing and how to be a proper gentleman at the Salle.

>>3047860
>How old are you?
nearly 30
>Do you have a background in martial arts?
yeah for about 10 years
>How much do you train?
varies but mostly 5 days a week 1-3 hours
>How good are you at learning?
ok I guess?
>How good is your instructor ad teaching?
pretty good
>How many people do you train with?
depends but mostly 8-12
>How good are they?
2 of them clearly better than me the rest equal or a bit 'worse'

Startingfag here, had my first training today. My thoughts so far:

-I'm gonna be in an awful lot of pain tomorrow morning
-that Dieter guy is pretty cool
-Fencing is HARD, just getting some basic movements down with the longsword will take a while
-I'm gonna be in an awful lot of pain tomorrow morning
-I got a taster of S&B which was really cool. Also, holy fuck coordinating two separate objects twisted my brain up. Is that normal? Anyway, I really wanna focus on that shit eventually because it appears to be just as awesome as I had hoped.
-I'm gonna be in an awful lot of pain tomorrow morning
-Swords (well, feders and blunt arming swords) have an interesting feel to them. I think I understand now when people talk about that liveliness.

All in all, good shit. If anyone here is considering joining a club, DO IT FAGET. I'll definitely be sticking to longsword for now as S&B is both coordinatively difficult and also more physically strenuous.

I'll stop blogging like a dick now.

Also, wut mask is gud and what are some good gloves for drilling? They told me I should get those things ASAP.

>>3049410
It depends on your budget.

>>3049410
Uhlmann, Allstar, PBT, Gajardoni, Leon Paul.
gloves, depends on, like non padded general purpose? Just use your swiss army leather gloves, they are good quality.
Also, you want to call Alex, he has like the only shop in Switzerland. https://fechtwaffen.ch/

>>3049480
I'm concerned enough about my safety to not put much of a limit on there. I'd rather be temporarily broke than unable to work for months on end.

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>>3049287
Well, I wasn't actually asking all those questions to calculate how long will it take for you to get good.
It was just to show there isn't an easy answer.

>>3049527
Home I'm not too sure what I should get in the glove department. I obviously won't be sparring for quite a while.
During the drilling, people's gloves varied a lot, from lightly padded looking stuff to one guy who put on his big fat sparring shell things.
I'm leaning towards going for the heavier duty shit even for drilling because music and all.

Also
>tfw untauglich

>>3049410
>I'm gonna be in an awful lot of pain tomorrow morning
Get used to it
>I think I understand now when people talk about that liveliness.
Not bad. Few feel it at the first lesson.

>>3049531
Any Leon Paul, PBT, Gajardoni with a back of head protection in addition, SPES unity if possible, avoid the leon paul rigid exclusive back of head bullshit. For the gloves, just get the SPES lobsters and be done with it, you'll have more than enough protection with them and you can use them for sparring afterwards.

>>3049578
for basic class you just want some leather or synthetic work gloves to keep the blisters away. No need for padding as you won't be doing contact drills with fulls speed anyways.

>>3049624
Switzerland is Uhlmann / Allstar country, with few specks of PBT. Importing is not really an option because freight and customs. Make a club order or buy whats available.
Also, German mask have excellent grills.

>>3049645
I don't know Uhlmann and Allstar masks, so I recommend what I know, get the best thing available, protecting your head is important.

>>3049287
oh, then about tree fiddy

>>3049589
>Get used to it
I don't think I have much of a choice!

>Not bad. Few feel it at the first lesson.
Well, in practice it was within limits of course. That idea that (at least some) swords seem to "want" to move in certain ways definitely felt apparent though.

>>3047705
>his footwork section in the introduction is still a bit unclear to me.
imo it's just his very obtuse way of describing walking off-line/diagonal steps. When in doubt, side step then recover backwards.

>What was their definition back then?
Most continental manuals didn't make a distinction. Whatever the most popular sword was in its place and time was just that, a sword.
England/Britain had a weird fusion of things, but what we know is in Di Grassi's English translation the translator literally tells us he's using the word "rapier" because it's more popular.

Shortsword (short relative to the popular rapier), backsword, broadsword are usually more or less the same weapon.

Falchion, hangers, hunting trousses, Ale-House dagger, wood knives, skaines, etc. tend to mean short (shorter than the above) cut-centric weapons (with the exception of the skaine).

A long sword can mean either what we know as a longsword, or it can mean a sword that is not a rapier but longer than normal.

Bastardsword is "Somewhat longer than a shortsword and somewhat shorter than a longsword-"

Two handed sword is pretty self explanatory.

A smallsword tends to just mean a weapon that, while not necessary shorter in length than a broadsword etc., is narrower or has less mass with a thrust-centric design.

Sidesword and armingsword are completely modern terms.

And none of this is certain as different authors thought different things.

Hope that helps.

How do we make hema media sexy?

>>3052176
more cute girls?

>>3052176
Oiled up grappling?

>>3052176
where's the medieval art of that naked woman covered by a longsword?
that's what hema needs!

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>>3050360
I think most of the confusion came from this image. His right foot is behind and the origin for some reason which makes the lines seem nonsensical. Just by changing his feet around it makes a whole lot more sense, with his left foot (now behind) passing diagonally to the left or circling behind to the right as described in the plays.

Also, regarding the English and terminology, it's quite strange to hear of Silver's beef with rapiers and Italian masters like Saviolo when in Saviolo's book, which of course is in English and uses "rapier", the swords depicted are no more than your average one-handers.

>>3048728
Naturally, it will always depend on the time period, but generally, as soon as the protective equipment and the safer training weapons start to be developped, you see a large increase in sparring practices (so 17th c. conclusively). With the advent of the foil and fencing jacket, pretty much every salle that does smallsword or rapier are sparring. We even have some oddballs like crazy Jacopo Monesi (1640 - this guy is pretty funny to read) who says that people generally don't spar enough and spends to much time with the theory.
But even before that, the german longsword tradition of the late 16th century had sparring, same in the italian cities (Pim Terminiello digged a text which describes earnest sparring with fencing jackets longswords and masks/helmets in the 16th c. iirc). As soon as 1567, to be a master-at-arms in France you had to prove your worth by sparring at least three other masters with 3 of the 5 traditionnal weapons, indicating that it was done in the salle, etc.

Also, it's the same old thing, it depends on the place and time, but for instance in the japanese fencing styles, as soon as the bogu armor is developped, roughly in the late 17th c. (shinai were out there more than a century before), you see a massive increase with sparring practices so that by the 18th c. it takes a large place in most styles. By the end of the 18th c. the four major japanese fencing styles are all heavily into sparring with shinai and bogu. You even have development of sparring versions of naginata and kusarigama later on. Some styles like Itto Shoden Muto-ryu can go quite crazy with stuff like 100 continuous sparring matches during as much as three days (kyokushin karate was inspired by this when they made their similar thing). So it's not really correct to say that in eastern styles, freeplay was very rare, it obviously depends on the era, but at some point, in some places, it was all the rage, same as in Europe.

>>3052176
Matt Easton in drag?

>>3052925
From descriptions Ive heard of the master of defense tests it was more of a challenge match, at least in england. You had to accept challenges from anyone of rank who would give it for the entire day.

>>3048728
It really wasnt uncommon at all is Japanese styles, depending on the period. Its just most of the styles that survived modernization tended to be the most conservative so many of them didn't, or gave their sparring up to participate in modern kendo, which at the time made sense, kendo was a very different animal before the war.

>>3053331
This might be the best suggestion!
Just found out that after winning a recent competition, a guy from our club is now in the top 100. At least according to HEMA Rankings, don't know if they're considered reliable or not, still new to the HEMA scene. My instructor is just behind him as well. (came second in the competition)
Pretty much finished my beginner's Longsword course, just one more class, which I think is just an exam and some light sparring. Any tips for moving forward into proper sparring with steels?

>>3052176
Do we want to make HEMA media sexy? That doesn't strike me as necessarily a good thing.

>>3053503
I'm real iffy on HEMA Rankings. It's kinda entertaining, but I don't like the idea of it being relied on for anything serious. As I understand it, the quality of the rankings depends on the sample size they have for a given fighter, and that varies a lot. It also doesn't tell us anything specific about how people are fighting; it only looks at wins versus losses.

>>3054764
I hope you get hit by a bus tomorrow and break both your legs, you fucking degenerate.

>>3055972
>Do we want to make HEMA media sexy? That doesn't strike me as necessarily a good thing

The problem with hema is that unless you're gay for swords and shit, it's a really boring spectatorsport. It might be really hard to get your friends and family invested into the sport.

Maybe the question should be, how do we make Hema enjoyable for people to follow?

For example, I get that everyone wants to wear all black gear, it's neutral yet sleek and slightly edgy. But for a normie, watching everyone in pretty much identical spacedude-suits is really confusing. Hate to bring Bohurts up but I think they got the right idea with their tabards, you can instantly recognise the fighters from their colours. I'd say way more people would watch streams from events like Swordfish if you could instantly go "Hey that guy is from [my country], I'll cheer him on."

Also ring-girls/-guys/-matteastons in drag, that shit always sells.

>Canne Vigny by Agilitas.tv
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqE-mBRlmYQ
You guys hyped?

>>3056448
From an aesthetic standpoint I'd like to see a shift more towards colourful outfits, all black is boring. Going for almost LARPesque aesthetics like with those ridiculous Neyman trousers to me at least seems like a bad idea.

From a spectator perspective, I disagree strongly. Most people I know usually are impressed at how fucking fast HEMA is, and those people who do HEMA-based fight choreography prove that from a visual standpoint, it beats Hollywood choreo by miles.

Personally, I think Dave Rawlings in drag is what the world needs.

File: Pisani-dossi.png (2MB, 1065x897px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1065x897px

Help me clarify something please.
When and how did this became widely known as "half-swording" when, for what I've read, most of the german sources refer to this type of grip and fighting as "shortened sword" or "short sword" and when the italian... don't really give a specific name to it, and have "half-sword" mean (same in english and french apparently) a crossing of the two swords at their half or so (incrosado a meza spada).
Now I understand that some terms can be modernized and not have the same meaning as they had in the old times but still, I see no real big usage of "half sword" as this specific practice but most certainly I haven't looked into it enough...

And as an aside, it's the same with "longsword" right, it's referring to the use of the sword with two hands in the german traditions while the italians simply used "spada a due mani". Longsword weren't a specific type of sword contrary to what it's typically referred at in our days, but a type of play (hence short sword/long sword).
Am I wrong, missing something somewhere? I can understand that this may be old stuff but well, everyone get to it at their own pace I suppose.

>>3057215
Longsword is modern definition. Simply because vast majority of swords across the history were called just sword.

>>3057144
>From an aesthetic standpoint I'd like to see a shift more towards colourful outfits, all black is boring. Going for almost LARPesque aesthetics like with those ridiculous Neyman trousers to me at least seems like a bad idea.
Yup, Hema gear is modern and trying to implement some baggy authenti-pants is just silly, especially in a competetive setting. Encouraging custom print jackets or vest or surcoats should be the way to go. Same with customizing your mask, the notion that getting a paintjob on your mask is "larpy" or "autistic" is dumb. Hockyplayers do it all the time and no-ones calling them autistic for it. Having a personal look is a lot more asthetically pleasing even if yours were a shitty one.

>From a spectator perspective, I disagree strongly. Most people I know usually are impressed at how fucking fast HEMA is, and those people who do HEMA-based fight choreography prove that from a visual standpoint, it beats Hollywood choreo by miles.
I'm not saying Hema can't look impressive to "normies" because it can and it does. But in order to keep them engaged you need to get them emotionally invested, which is really hard when you can't even tell the fighters apart.

There's also the issue of marketing but I don't really know much about it except that hema-guys are really bad at selling their sport.

>>3057819
>hema-guys are really bad at selling their sport.

I don't even know how to explain to people what I do.

>>3057819
>I'm not saying Hema can't look impressive to "normies" because it can and it does. But in order to keep them engaged you need to get them emotionally invested, which is really hard when you can't even tell the fighters apart.

Definitely see your point with the sameyness and boring nature of the outfits. Just seeing Dutchies with their orange jackets is already quite a refresher, although even then, showing HEMA to someone still usually means they get to see two anonymous, similar-looking figures fencing, except one or both are now orange.

>>3057931
I explain it like this:
You know how when you saw fencing on TV as a kid, you were always kinda disappointed at how they were using those little antenna swords?
HEMA is about reconstructing how they fought with actual swords and stuff based on actual historical literature.

>>3057931
>I play with swords
>but in a serious way

>>3057819
Autism.
Painted masks are autistic and larpy. Period. HEMA isn't about showing off your uniqueness. Please fuck off back to wherever you came from.

I swear to fuck HEMA got a lot worse when 4chin kids got into it.

>>3058345
Let's all fight as anonymous black blobs then! There's no need for HEMA to become bigger, it should stay a secret club for the chosen few.

>>3057819
>>3058345
I thinks it depends on what is painted on the mask. I don't see what's the problem with the color(s) or the symbol of the club, or other simple stuff. Edgy, trying-to-be-funny, look-at-me and cringeworthy paints should be avoided.

>>3058402
Do you really think edgy face masks is how you get martial artists interested in HEMA? Sure, a mask with some pop culture reference or some shit meme or a shitty attempt at an intimidating sharky smile or whatever the fuck might make HEMA bigger in dweeb circles like 4chan, but do you really think serious practioners of other martial arts will give a fuck? Do you think that's how we recruit Olympic fencers? With meme masks? Fuck off.

>>3058402
This retarded argument can be made for Olympic fencing too. "hurr durr anonymous white blobs. muh individuality. muh uniqueness."

Clean aesthetics do more for HEMA than fucking dolan the duck masks will ever do, you autistic fuck. Look at any photo of GHFS fencers and then look at any photo of the Australian HEMA clubs with their tabbards and meme masks. Which one do you think gives HEMA an air of legitimacy? We want this to be a martial art based on academic research, not a catwalk. Literally and honestly, I think LARP or SCA is more for you.

>>3058920
>Do you think that's how we recruit Olympic fencers?
I honestly think olympic fencers don't give a flying fuck about HEMA

>>3058928
>dolan the duck masks
>tabbards and meme masks
Ah damn, I though you were talking about painted masks in general.
Yeah, fuck meme masks, I was talking about masks painted in the colors of your club (or nation depending on where you're fencing).
Very simple, 2 or 3 colors and that's it.

>>3058958
Same, my club doesn't have a common "uniform" or anything so we paint our masks with our logo to show where we're from.