Dinosaur thread

>>2058485
The board is animals and nature, dynos are not animals and are not a part of nsture

Back to >>/x/

>>2058485
Get me up to date, /an/, is Bronto a real species this week?

>>2058557
Yes indeed.

>>2058509
Check your present time privilege.

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>>2058509
>Dinosaurs are not part of nature
Anon I...

Im so sick of everyone suddenly drawing feathered dinosaurs just because one small one was found with some.

>>2058525
I want to see someone shop an even tinier bird into the duck's mouth, and then in that bird's mouth, an even TINIER bird, ad infinitum.

>>2059267
>Im so sick of everyone suddenly drawing feathered dinosaurs just because one small one was found with some.
>one small one was found with some
>one

b8 of the century

>>2060545
Effectively he's right though. Feathers were found on a few groups of dinosaurs and now everything from duckbills to Triceratops are being drawn with feathers.

>>2060826
I think you're taking a few joke drawings a little too seriously.

>>2060826
I get where your coming from but...
still no feathers on Iguanadonts tons of skin impressions from various late cretaceous hadrosaurs say to the contrary. inb4 Kulindadromeus and integument is a world different from feathers

>>2060826
And just who is drawing triceratops with feathers? I've seen some deviantart drawings of straight up, full plumage but thats it - deviantart, where most of these pictures come from, and most of them are just from regular artists.

>>2062061
There is only one pic I have ever seen and it was a triceraptops made to look like a parrot, which was clearly a joke

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If you faggots are going to complain and debate each other, at least post pictures of dinos or other Mesozoic life while you're at it.

>>2058509
You should look up the definition of animals and come back us.

>>2060826
And a dinosaur thread turns into a feather argument. Again.
>no need to bicker

>>2061357
>#5
Would you ride that thing like a fucking horse
>Protip: you can't
>extict
>mah feels :(

>>2059267
this

>>2062416
>mfw dino-cavalry charge

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Best obscure dino
Linhenykus a cute

The thing that bothers me about the feathered dino drawings is that they are shown as "flightless birds", which is backwards to me. Surely animals that would evolve INTO birds wouldn't have vestigial wings, and any "feather" type plumage would look fit for purpose (insulation) rather than like bird feathers that are designed for flight.

>>2062558
Don't forget sexual selection, you could very well have had peacock dinosaurs. Or differences between the genders like blue jays, cardinals, robins, etc.

>>2058637
God(s) this made me laugh so much for some reason

>>2058509
Oh right, I totally forgot Dinosaurs are paranormal, thanks anon.

>>2058487
I bought the AoR omnibus recently, it's pretty rad and fun to look through at any time

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>>2060826
>>2059267

just wanna point out that some kind of psittacosaur, an ancestor of triceratops was discovered with long quills along its tail, so some people think all ceratopsids might have had that kind of plummage.

Plus we can assume that pretty much all dromaeosaurs had feathers, as well as some (maybe all?) other theropods. Since theropods and ceratopsids are relatively distantly related it kinda makes sense for most dinosaurs to have some kind of plummage. Which ones exactly do and don't is anyone's guess tho

>dino thread
>mostly raptors and retarded Deviantart pictures
every damn time

>>2062355
>implying it was a joke.

I drew it so I know.

>>2060826
>Triceratops are being drawn with feathers.
Picture or get the fuck off retard.

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>>2059267
You'd be right if this were 1999, but at this point the sheer amount of discoveries and their phylogenetic placement is kinda leaning toward feathers (or at the very least, filamentous beta-keratin integument) being an ancestral trait for all archosaurs in the pterosaur/dinosaur node.
>Full remiges in stem-avialans
>varying degrees of contour feathers and down in the majority of theropods
>branched filoplumes and fuzz in basal ornithischians
>fucking PYCNOFIBRES
>Probable dormant feather genes in modern crocodilians

Like, these structures could maybe have arisen independently, but the most parsimonious interpretation is that they're all homologous.
Given the mutability of extant archosaurian dermal genes, It's a safe bet that non-feathered dinosaurs were the "advanced" ones.

>>2064138
He probably means a sketch of triceratops with a bundle of tail quills or some such.

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>>2065173
I read somewhere that they think Trikes may have been omnivorous as well, based on teeth shape.

>>2064000
>>2062409
i did look up the definition, dynos don't come under it cause there is no proof they ever existed.

>>2065211
wtf

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So how did feathers look on a trex did have a little bit or was did they have a shit ton similar to a velociraptor

>>2065211
That sounds kinda interesting but I doubt the triceratops was a omnivore

>>2065225
>dynos don't come under it cause there is no proof they ever existed.
Anon come on if you're trying to b8 people at least don't put out stupid b8

>>2065235
>That sounds kinda interesting but I doubt the triceratops was a omnivore
There is absolutely no reason for it not to be, aside from nostalgia.

http://www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers/viewtopic.php?id=12084

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So, everyone will just post images without write for a future discussion?
Many times an image does not worth nothing without a word.
I give you a theme
Amphicoelias it's for real?
How big could be?

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>>2065496
>everyone will just post images without write for a future discussion?
/an/ prefers pictures to discussion most of the time.
That way they don't have to deal with my irritating, know-it-all ass.

Amphicoelias is probably Diplodocus, Foster really knows his shit when it comes to sauropods. Size is likely an error in publishing. Cope stuck a decimal in the wrong place.

doesn't hurt to keep looking though.
Did you read they're working on the first Morrison Formation raptor atm? Bakker had previously found a raptor tooth at Como Bluff about ten years ago, but apparently someone has come up with a fairly complete skeleton.

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>>2065528
>Amphicoelus is probably Diplodocus
You wot
Amphicoelus altus is known from relatively good remains and is considered a primitive diplodocid heck its more related to basically any other diplodocid rather then the crown Diplodocus. Its the the other species Amphicoelias fragillimus is the big mysterious one but A. altus is a solid species

>>2065583
Foster pointed out that the holotype for A. altus is indistinguishable from Diplodocus.

He left the name in place but reserved it only for the holotype material and reassigned all other A. altus material to Diplodocus.

Amphicoelius is the senior name though, so if the two are the same then Diplodocus may be rejected. He didn't want to mess with that.

>>2065211
no this was more a admittedly interesting theory with no real evidence for it but considering sometimes herbivores will pick at carcasses and hippos sometimes just straight up kill and nibble on animals I could see a Triceratops using that massive powerful beak to pick at something dead for some calcium or protein

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>>2065583
>Amphicoelias (/ˌæmfᵻˈsiːliəs/, meaning "biconcave", from the Greek αμφι, amphi: "on both sides", and kοιλος, koilos: "hollow, concave") is a genus of herbivorous sauropod dinosaur that is probably synonymous with the genus Diplodocus.

~ wikipedia

>>2065207
A weapon to surpass metal gear.

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>>2065596
Hell, even deer will eat rabbits and birds for the calcium in their bones...

What is the best obscure/underrated dino?

>>2065211
I used to own horses. I once saw my horse eat a dead rat. Seemed more like it was curious than anything else, but kind of freaked me out.

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Yi qi, basically a real wyvern- if a tiny one.

>>2065170
Hold on a shitting second. Is that obviously fraudulent fossil supposed to be genuine?

>>2065211
New trendy bullshit. Ever since millennials got into biology they want make herbivory into a myth because a deer ate a fish once, so now they're trying to convince everyone they're the edgiest thing ever by claiming that every herbivore is actually an omnivore. The same thing with the featherfaggotry. It's trendhopping nonsense. Some Therapods were feathered. MOST Dinosaurs WERE NOT.

>B-b-but muh x structures
Go suck on China's fake fossil dick some more.

>>2065862
RARELY.

>>2065943
>Chinese fake fossils
>Real
This shit is getting beyond old. Paleontology has made a complete mockery of itself the past few decades.

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I want a pet baby Tyrannosaurus so bad

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>>2067021
He rex poo now...

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>>2067495
nah, he's ok.

>>2062558
Feathers could also be seasonal camouflage, perhaps.

>>2065207
Largest limbs - makes sense.

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The great debate:
Bipedal or quadrupedal?

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>>2067571

>>2067555
To glide, maybe; not to flap.

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These threads never have enough John Sibbick.

>>2067016
Any evidence that the fossil is fake?

>>2058485

When I was younger I wanted to be a paleontologist, and that was before I even saw Jurassic Park. Glad I didn't go for it though since I'd probably be broker and more unemployed than I am now.

>>2068695
no he may have confused it for that one Archaeoraptor a composite fake of a Yanornis with a Microraptor's tail but thats the only real forgery fossil I can think of

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Where my ankylobros at?
I want to genuinely believe that this thing could go toe-to-toe with 'Ol Rexy and have a decent chance

>>2068856
>muh childhood

I bet if I look it up now Wikipedia will say it's been found out they couldn't even lift their tails with that heavy thing on it, only in water or some shit like that.

>>2068366
It's sad-funny because it's true.

>>2068883
>I bet if I look it up...
you'd be wrong.

>>2067571
Well, theropods couldn't bend their wrists that we know of....so probably bipedal.

>>2068883
>>2068884
> As only the tail club of specimen AMNH 5214 is known, the range of variation between individuals is unknown, but tail club shapes are known to have been variable in related ankylosaurids. The tail club of AMNH 5214 is 450 mm (18 in) wide. The last seven tail vertebrae formed the "handle" of the tail club. >These vertebrae were in contact, with no cartilage between them, and sometimes coossified, which made them immobile. >Ossified tendons attached to the vertebrae in front of the tail club, and these features together helped strengthen it.

>A 2009 study estimated that ankylosaurids could swing their tails at 100 degrees laterally and the mainly cancellous clubs would have a lowered moment of inertia and been effective weapons. However, the study also found that while large ankylosaurid tail clubs were capable of breaking bones, medium and small clubs were not. Despite the feasibility of tail swinging, the researchers could not determine whether ankylosaurids used their clubs for defense against potential predators, in intraspecific combat or both.[31] In 1993, Tony Thulborn proposed that the tail club of ankylosaurids primarily acted as a decoy for the head, as he thought the tail too short and inflexible to have an effective reach; the "dummy head" would lure a predator close to the tail, where it could be stricken.[32] Carpenter has rejected this idea, as tail club shape is highly variable among ankylosaurids, even in the same genus.


Take that as you will. The first specimen could have been an older one. Aside from that, we have like two 'decent' specimens. None of them are complete so wow. I'm realizing more and more lately that we know jack shit about dinosaurs and just how little fossil records we have on most of them.

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>>2068889
>I'm realizing more and more lately that we know jack shit about dinosaurs and just how little fossil records we have on most of them.
correct. we almost never have a complete skeleton unless it's some absurdly common type of dinosaur.

also if you dig into what we know a bit beyond just what the media tosses out you'll find the character of the knowledge is completely different from common perception.

a lot of things that are passed off as known fact in the public press are just speculation. Most of paleontology doesn't actually deal with T. rexes and feathers. Or even with dinosaurs as whole animals. Most of the time we're comparing 3 bones from one animal to an entirely different 5 and 1/2 bones from another species.

there is certainly some science involved, but the public in general isn't aware of that part at all. The public is interested in 1) what dinosaurs looked like, and 2) how dinosaurs behaved.

these are two points where fossils don't tell us much, so paleontologists in general aren't particularly interested in it.

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>>2068900
tl;dr: we know a shitload about dinosaurs, but it's mostly stuff the public would find very boring.

>>2068887
>Theropods, including spinosaurids, could not pronate their hands (rotate the forearm so the palm faced the ground), but a resting position on the side of the hand was possible, as shown by fossil prints from an Early Jurassic theropod.

>>2068928
There are a couple other possibilities.
walking on the side of the hand would've placed the forearm almost parallel to the ground, but walking on the knuckles would've extended the arm more. Iguanodon has been interpreted as walking on its knuckles in the past, as have prosauropods.

the other interpretation has to do with why theropods couldn't pronate the wrist. Their forearms were really short so rotating it crossed the radius and ulna. Spinosaurus had some unusually long forearms, so perhaps it could pronate its wrists in a way other theropods couldn't. This contradicts your quote, but it's likely Wikipedia is mistaken on that point since iirc Carpenter didn't actually examine Spinosaurids in his work on theropod forelimb mechanics. His goal on that paper wasn't to prove that theropods can't pronate the wrist, he was specifically examining the arrangement of the carpus which has consistently been a problem in theropods and prosauropods. The bones of the wrist are usually jumbled and scattered if they're even present at all, which leads to a lot of confusion on how they were arranged in life.

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>>2068928
>>2068932
Citation in picture.

I happen to have the study on hand that Wikipedia cites regarding pronation of the wrist. A search for "Spinosaurus" and "spinosaurid" in the text turns up 0 results.

the simple fact is Carpenter didn't examine spinosaurs when he wrote that theropods can't pronate the wrist. He based his statement on a handful of theropods none of which had arms as long as Spinosaurus.

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>>2068928
in fact if you read the study that Wikipedia cites, not only does it NOT mention Spinosaurus, but it specifically mentions that Deinonychus can pronate its wrist.

>Deinonychus also shows one adaptation not seen in the other theropods, the capacity of pronating the manus.

Someone on Wikipedia appears to be citing a study that says the opposite of what they think it does.

>>2059201
magpies are awesome...

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>>2068936
Most non-avian dinosaurs actually had very primitive wrists, due to a general lack of corpal bones to allow for more wrist flexibility.

Just look at the arms of allosaurs or megalosaurs (spinosaur origins)
http://dinosaur--dinosaurs.com/images/AllosaurusARM.jpg

Now look at the more complex wrist of deinonychus.
https://naturalhistory.si.edu/exhibits/backyard-dinosaurs/images/64.Deinonychus-large.jpg
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/museum/events/bigdinos2005/calendar.html

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Hey guys this is a nice thread you got here

>>2069473
Is this Ark?

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The king of dinosaurs might have also snacked on sauropods.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/science-nature/when-tyrannosaurus-chomped-sauropods-67170161/

>>2069510
That picture is a good way for a tyrannosaur to get completely fucked up immediately.

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Tyrannosaurs seem to have been best adapted to survived traumatic injuries. Heck, many of them even show signs of having multiple injuries from fights with each other or against armored prey, and yet still survived for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKOrB_vVifo

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>>2069512
Maybe, but you have to find some way to kill a large and tall animal.

Besides:

1. Sauropods were very slow due to their size and mass.

2. Tyrannosaurus pretty much had the most lethal bite of any terrestrial animal.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-tyrannosaurus-rexs-dangerous-and-deadly-bite-37252918/?no-ist
Each bite would cause significant damage.

3. Tyrannosaurs are very hardy robust durable animals that have powerful adaptations to also withstand and recover quicker from injuries.
>>2069517
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb12fBXssZg
It is also possible that most dinosaurs had strong healing abilities, but no other dinosaur show such grand scales of such than tyrannosaurs.

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Props to +StygimolochSpinifer on Deviantart, called 'Dinosaurs and Non-Dinosaurs'

RED are not related to dinosaurs.
YELLOW are related to dinosaurs because they are archosaurs, but are not actually dinosaurs themselves.
GREEN are actual true dinosaurs.

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>>2069521
It is a well known fact among paleontologists that tyrannosaurus jaws were specifically designed to cause the most damage and tear off the most (largest chunks of meat and even bones) in comparison to other dinosaurs.

They gave tyrannosaurus an evolutionary advantage of killing quicker and more ruthlessly, in addition to making the most consumption for every kill. This meant more nutrition intake.


Image by +HodariNundu, called 'So much for AnachronicDating.com'

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>>2069532
Birds are dinosaurs. Get over it >>2069527

>>2069533
Watch the ending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=865AoXifk7E

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>implying dinosaurs existed

Topkek

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>>2069510
>>2069517
>>2069521
>>2069529
Tyrannosaurs were pretty much the ultimate large terrestrial predators. But they would have not even exist, had it not been for the extinction of prior large predators that initially filled that niche.

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Two of the most dangerous armored prey to have ever lived.

The best dinosaur is actually meleagris ocellata and Gallus-gallus domesticus.

>>2069399
404 thread not found

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>>2069399
Never forget.

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What spinosaurus might have looked like, had it survived and evolved longer.

>>2069556
Cute
>>2069596

Press F for respect
;_;7

>>2069544
Holy Kek
>dem veins
>dat throbbing

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>>2069596
The asteroids or comet was a lie. It was all a cover up by the Counsel to mask the real threat. The threat that is all too terrifying to the masses.

>>2069618
These are great, I really like them.

>quilled triceratops

Paleoartists are the worst offenders for liberal and inaccurate use of phylogenetic bracketing.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-jpuywa6lg

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>>2069563

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>>2069645
That was pretty much the gallery food market for tyrannosaurus. It is such a beautiful image with herds of triceratops and alamosaurus.

Here are a few other tyrannosaurus prey items to someday add in the future:

1. 39-43ft edmontosaurus. They were the easiest for a tyrannosaurus to kill, due to their lack of armor or weapons. Tyrannosaurus jaws would easily dispatch them with a single bite.
But edmontosaurus was surprisingly fast for their size.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmontosaurus#/media/File:Edmontosaurus_scale.png

2. Torosaurus: though some believe it was basically a more mature triceratops, this was merely speculative and more recent studies greatly refute it.
They were most likely two separate species living in overlapping territories; sort of similar to black and white rhinos of Africa today.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3290593/
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OORyagu8ETY/TFXlBZMiMRI/AAAAAAAABx4/RerMvmNq_Qc/s400/triceratops%26torosaurus(2).jpg

3. The iconic ankylosaurus. though this was the hardest to kill due to its very bony armor and club tail that could shatter bones.


4. Denversaurus. though related to ankylosaurus, it was more spiky and did not have a clubbed tail. Still, its tail was spiky enough to cause damage and its pronounced shoulder spikes could cause severe damage.
http://pre01.deviantart.net/0333/th/pre/i/2016/013/b/4/saurian_denversaurus_by_arvalis-d9nv1jy.jpg

>>2058509
Either you are really shitty at bait or you are a totally idiot

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>>2058509
You're right. They were nothing more but a conspiracy by either government or Satan to fool people into seeing faux major flaws in the story of Adam and Eve. Such as animals existing long before 6,000yrs and why would God intentionally create massive carnivorous animals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_a6RjR_AHY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzBFEntr5ww

Those bones are actually just stones and plastered bones berried to fool the masses.

>>2068889
God such stupid fucking theories. I swear to god it's like paleontologists never study biology and just make stupid shit up. It had a fucking club on the end of its tail. What does EVERY SINGLE HERBIVORE with protective defense features do? They fight amongst themselves, mostly for breeding rights, AND they use their defensive measures to fend off predators.
>Now, now, Dinosaurs were magical, primitive animals who couldn't climb trees, turn their hands an had to live in swamps to support their weight. There's no way they could use obviously defensive measures defensively.
I swear, it's like paleontologist believe Dinosaurs were fucking magically primitive animals and Occam's Razor never applies to them.

>>2068805
I didn't confuse anything. There are reams of fraudulent Chinese fossils from Liaoning. It boggles my mind that just *coincidentally* a large percentage of these "new, edgy" dinosaurs fossils with feathers and bat wings and other stupid shit all seem to come from the most fraudulent fossil beds on Earth and paleontologists never question this. Archaeoraptor was BY FAR NOT the only fraudulent fossil out of China. Stop learning everything you know about fossils from pop science.

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Oh don't mind me just popping in for a chat.

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is it just me or is it getting a little warm in here?

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uhh I hope you don't mind but I think everybody is about to get a little wet

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Yeahh, so about that beachhouse over there, probably gone.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slcVvR7UMik

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Everyone is pretty much well informed by now that tyrannosaurus was a near indestructible animal by animal standards. it could very easily kill just about any predatory dinosaur that dared to oppose it, using its robust and resilient body, precise vision and overkill jaws.

But dakotaraptor may have been the dominant small pry hunter in tyrannosaurus environment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeTdbCUeTWg

>>2061357
Sweet jesus they really were just fucking dragons..

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>>2069740
Unlikely, because it was not the only carnivorous creature preying on such prey.

It is possible that juvenile tyrannosaurus or nanotyrannus might have hunted the same and even larger prey than dakotaraptor.
http://saurian.maxmediacorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/rjpalmer_dakotaraptor_jane_001_by_arvalis-d9ev6ij.jpg
In fact, nanotyrannus may be its own species that lived in groups up to 15 members, as some evidence concludes to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZVk6qTq00


All while dakotaraptor was likely a more stealthy solitary hunter.

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Ekrixinatosaur on the left, and giganotosaurus on the right.

So who would be the real king of South America if they really were roughly the same size and lived together?

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>>2069752
Ekrixinatosaurus was at most 36ft in length, while giganotosaurus was 40 to 43ft. This gives giganotosaurus a size advantage of being 4-7ft larger, but likely weighed about the same. This is because giganotosaurus was a very slender lightly built animal.

Neither was smart or had powerful bites. Both actually had relatively weak jaws, but giganotosaurus had more teeth in which were larger but more fragile.
Ekrixinatosaurus on the other hand evidently had a thick somewhat armored hide as carnotaurus. Such a hide could prove to be very tough for giganotosaurus sharp but weaker teeth.


Both actually had very small arms that were of no real use for combat; albeit abelisaur arms being a lot smaller in comparison.
It could go either way, but I would bet on giganotosaurus because it may have lived in gangs while ekrixinatosaurus was likely solitary.

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>>2069771

>>2069771
>Ekrixinatosaurus was at most 36ft in length

Manlet

>>2069828
>length = height

Non-English-speaking 3rd world retard

>>2069740
>literally a bird

>>2069752
>taildragger

guys, come on

>>2069828
It probably was not even 36ft, but that is its highest estimate.

>>2069858
shit b8

>>2069740
Im the anon above who still believes that a decently beefy ankylosaur with a nice tail club could go toe to toe with the big bad tyrannosaur and not get fucked

>>2069858
>taildragger
No tail dragging. The tail is just curved, but not acting as a third support beam/limb.

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>>2069858
>literally a bird
So, what? You want it to look like a JP raptor?

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Could sauropods have trunks?

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>>2069990
meybe something like this? Ya know, since proto-feathers and Plumage are NOT actually the same thing

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>>2069998
I see what you mean. The feathers on the body should resemble more like hair than more branched feathers.
https://pigeonchess.com/2012/07/16/fuzzy-thinking-about-fuzzy-dinosaurs/

>>2058486
the fuck is it eating?

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>>2069998
except raptors are inferred as having feathers because they have quill knobs on the arms, which implies pennaceous or pinnate feathers.

not necessarily flight feathers, but long feathers like a bird's wing feathers, having a central shaft anchored in bone. Literally something that looks like a bird.

>>2070076
sawfish

>>2069994
Theres no reason to think so. Something about trunk muscle leaving telltale marks on bones, which sauropods have no sign of.

>>2069994
>>2070081
this

there's also the problem that sauropods lack the foramen for the facial branch of the trigeminal nerve.

so they didn't have a nerve to control cheeks or lips...
or trunks.

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zhuchengtyrannus on the left, and tarbosaurus on the right.

Which would be the real king of East Asia?

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>>2070127
it seems likely that at some point in the future both of those genera will be rolled into Tyrannosaurus. Perhaps even T. rex.

>>2070079
Even the longest feathers we know of in dinosaurs (Epidexipteryx hui) weren't modern feathers, but rather a "single sheet" feather instead of modern veined feather.

And like >>2070075 picture, most feather imprints we have were wirey hair-like proto feathers.

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Oh no I want to play Spore again.

>>2070124
Why did Carnotaurus even have front limbs?
They look even more retarded and useless than T-rex's...

>>2069853
Doesn't matter which dimension measured.


Looking for interesting documentaries on either dinosaurs or how the earth was millions of years ago, any time period is ok.


Thanks

>>2070086
They can tell about nerves from fossils? That's amazing.
>>2070132
Those stubs Kek
>>2070197
Maybe the same reason other animals have useless parts that shrink: unnecessary.
They just didn't have a chance to finish disappearing.
Like snakes? I'm not really knowledgeable.

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>>2070127
Both have specimens that range from 30-40ft. But zhuchengtyrannus specimens are generally larger than those of tarbosaurus; for now at least.

>>2069589
No, the best dinosaur is Dacelo from Australia.

>>2070221
>They can tell about nerves from fossils?
well we can tell about cranial nerves since those go through holes in the bone of the skull.
>>2070158
what you're saying is false, but first you have to realize that birds are dinosaurs and we have lots of fossil bird feathers.

second, it doesn't actually matter if any of the hundreds of loose feather fossils we have can be attributed to bird or other dinosaur, since the presence of quill knobs indicates a quill.

that's a very modern feather type. The exact same as birds have.

>>2070158
>a "single sheet" feather instead of modern veined feather
I think if you look into this a bit you'll find there's no such thing.

that "single sheet" was branched and had a big central quill running down the middle of it.

it wasn't a flight feather is all. It wasn't shaped to fly. It didn't have one side wider than the other with a gentle curve to it. In that regard it was a flat sheet compared to a modern flight feather.

but it was certainly branched. I don't know what you mean by "veined." I think maybe the source you're reading was talking about "vanes" and you misread it as "veins."

>>2070081
>>2070086
>>2070221
Actually, the biggest tell that Sauropods didn't have trunks is the fact that their incisors were used to strip needles from Conifers, as indicated by wear patterns, which makes a trunk totally redundant.

>>2070132
I wonder if eventually dynos like this would have evolved to become armless, kind of like whales with their hindlimbs

>>2070406
That depends on whether such dinosaurs at the very least used their arms for communication, such as flashing their arms with potential feathers to convey messages.

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>>2070381
good point.
you'd also have to wonder why they'd need a trunk when their neck is already a billion feet long.

>>2070527
Also that. Yeah, all the evidence adds up in favor of Sauropods not having trunks. Although the foramen thing doesn't exactly hold water, because I'm pretty sure the skulls of Ceratopsians and Hadrosaurs are like that also and the same argument has been used to infer they couldn't have cheeks, but the laws of physics absolutely demand they had to have cheeks because their food would have fallen out of their heads while they chewed if they didn't.

>>2070532
well the cheeks wouldn't necessarily have to be muscular just to hold food in. The tongue could work to retrieve food that falls outside of the tooth battery next to the cheek. So a facial nerve may not be necessary.

Some dinosaurs had foramina for facial nerves. I'm not sure which ones without looking it up though. iirc hadrosaurs did.

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>>2070532
yeah, just glancing through stuff I have sitting around it looks like Ceratopsians do have the foramen for the facial nerve. So muscular cheeks would be possible for those guys.

Pic is endocast of Pachyrhinosaurus, the facial nerve is VII.

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>>2070544
I should amend that...
they have the foramen in the braincase for the facial nerve. They'd also need foramina in the maxillae and probably the ethmoids as well to get the nerve through the bone of the face. I'm not sure if they have those, ornithischians aren't really my area of expertise.

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There was a case were a few Jurassic dinosaurs were found dead in a tar pit, such as allosaurus, stegosaurus and a sauropod.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/tv_radio/big_al/big_al3.shtml

In theory, the herbivores were attracted to the water and the predators were attracted to the trapped prey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4BRPBgXYO8

>>2070536
True, generally you want cheek control to prevent biting your own cheeks though (not that it ever helped me kek).

>>2070544
Do they? Maybe it was just Hadrosaurs they said that about, but I was pretty sure a suite of groups were included, maybe Stegosaurids too. It's been a while since I saw it.

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>>2069748
At ten very least, dakotaraptor would be a real threat when they were much younger. But this assuming if they strayed too far from their parents (or pack for nanotyrannus).


This image was depicting a very young tyrannosaur chasing a target, when a dakotaraptor stole the target on the lest moment.

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Can someone animate this with jp3 spino roars spasticly edited to match the meows of the original

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4

>>2070127
They are about the same size and dot appear to have any real advantage over the other.

Anyways, here is a more classic version of Zhuchengtyrannus magnus

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>>2070670
Sorry. Here it is

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Here is a size comparison between tyrannosaurus compared to its prey (torosauru and denversaurus excluded)
Origional source: http://christopher252.deviantart.com/art/Lamina-comparativa-T-Rex-410368642

Here is tyrannosaurus compared to other predatory dinosaurs http://ultamateterex2.deviantart.com/art/Character-Line-up-440901101?q=favby%3ACalibersoul2012%2F66232753&qo=127

>>2070613
>Maybe it was just Hadrosaurs they said that about, but I was pretty sure a suite of groups were included,
it's possible for people to be mistaken, and it's possible I may be mistaken. Usually paleontologists are experts on a very narrow subject and don't know much outside their area of expertise. I made a short but fairly interesting career in the discipline mostly by pointing out other people's mistakes.
>maybe Stegosaurids too.
that's another one I'd have to look up. iirc they don't have a facial nerve, but then I can't remember any published stegosaur braincases off the top of my head. They had an extraordinarily simple brain though.

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>>2070613
Ok, found a Stegosaurus endocast, it's the bottom row in this pic.

you can see that it has a facial nerve, cranial nerve VII. However the nerve branches inside the braincase, with one branch appearing to follow the hypoglossal nerve out the back of the skull and presumably to the bottom jaw. The other branch appears to follow the auditory meatus straight out the side of the skull or perhaps to the base of the jaw.

So that appears to be an interesting case of a dinosaur that has a facial nerve but uses it for something other than facial muscles. It appears to be recruited into the jaw musculature.

This situation appears to be similar to the endocast in the top row, from the ankylosaur Kunbarrasaurus. But in Kunbarrasaurus the facial nerve appears to be even simpler, just an unbranched nerve following the auditory meatus directly. No branch exiting towards the hypoglossal canal.

so it's possible that these dinosaurs were using the facial nerve for something other than the face. Jaw or tongue would seem most likely.

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>>2070728
>cont.
though I guess that doesn't necessarily rule out cheeks since they could've had a buccinator muscle innervated from below.

it would just be a somewhat different route than the facial nerve takes in other animals.

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>>2070527

>>2070822
I lost my shit

>>2070604
Article states they found a rare fossilized brain. That's so awesome.

>>2065235
I believe if they had any feathers, their faces wouldn't be as covered as people usually draw them, just look at vultures.

>>2070822
Reminds me of those different edits of "Steve (I think that's the name used) forgets he's on the internet"

It's some little nerd and a bigger kid next to him.

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>>2069521
>>2069529
>>2069655
>>2070694
Yeah tyrannosaurus was a real badass with a very impressive selection of prey. It could take a beating and kill very easily with a single gruesome bite.

But what is the point when it had very poor vision.? I am sure it was proven, which is why it was in JP in the first place, right?

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>>2071314
Oh the irony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rtQPo4HKLY

Though most dinosaurs had poor eyesight, tyrannosaur vision is actually very advance with tyrannosaurus surpassing them all. In fact t-rex might have had the best precise eyesight out of all known organisms, even outside dinosaurs. Their eyes even put eagles to shame.

Tyrannosaurus was an animal that definitely had a high value for its vision and attacked with precision,
JP' simply made it up as they did with their dilophosaurus frill or carnotaurus invisibility. This was not so much them simply making things up for the sake of it, but to express that we really only know so little of them based on their bones and speculations.
Though I suspect they blinded the t-rex so that they could have very intense lose encounters without it immediately stacking on them. However, it could be explained as a dysfunction due to using toads DNA as a genetic buffer.

>>2059260
I'm ok with feathered Rex now.

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>>2071330
Damn, that s ironic.

Telling people to use tyrannosaurus "weakness" of sight by standing still to prevent being eaten is like telling people to run through an open flat land if spotted by cheetahs to "exploit their slowness"...


Evolutionary wise, tyrannosaurus is really an overachiever among most average dinosaurs

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>>2071314
>>2071330
the reason they played down its vision is because it has some of the largest olfactory lobes ever found.

so they went with the idea that it depended more on its sense of smell than its vision. The findings that it had excellent binocular vision is a pretty new finding. Newer than JP anyways.

Interestingly people often make the same mistake about dogs -
dogs have a superior sense of smell so people assume they must not see very well. Which is mostly bunk, they see at least as well as we do. Just not as many colors.

>>2069399
I want to go to Ida and steal it's moon.

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>>2069642
Jesus dude, ya need a napkin?

>>2071486
lel

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>>2065943
That reconstruction is all kinds of retarded

>>2068936
>Deinonychus can pronate its wrist
Then Jurassic Park was right all along!

>>2070666
I want this to happen Anon.

>>2071750
yeah, but apparently nobody actually read Carpenter's study.

whatever. Paleontologists are often idiots. At least some of them are.

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>>2069681
I notice everyone is ignoring you, I just want to say I always find your posts infinitely amusing. You tickle the hell out of my funny bone.

>paleontologists never question this
see, this is why it's funny to me. You have no idea what paleontologists do or know and just kinda assume you're better at their job than they are. I imagine you walking through life obliviously criticizing brain surgeons and automotive engineers just as vehemently.
>god damn it Bob why don't you just wire the smell part of the brain to the math part so the patient can calculate the exact number of odors he's detecting? fucking brain surgeons, man. So stupid.

anyways, I just wanted to say thanks. You make the thread for me.

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>>2069681
but anyways, to address your points both stated and implied:

"Archaeoraptor" was rejected for publication by every single paleontological journal because it appeared to be a fake. Paleontologists looked at it and said "nope."
It was ultimately published in National Geographic, not a scientific journal, because no real journal wanted any part of it.
However the reason it fooled one paleontologist was because the fake was made from two real dinosaurs. So the bones at least looked like actual dinosaur bones. Paleontologists can tell the difference.

To make a fake that fools a paleontologist you'd about need to make it out of real, unknown dinosaur bones. Because if you make it out of modern animal bones we're not going to have any problem telling what it's made out of. Then there's the problem of mineralization. Fossil bones are made of rock that preserves the shape and structure of the original bones. So you can't just sculpt rock or clay into the shape of unknown bones, it won't look like bone under a microscope. Then there's the problem of what to make your fake bones look like. Believe it or not you'd have to spend a decade studying bones just to know what to make your fake ones look like. It'd have to be something new but still obviously dinosaur bones. The average Chinese peasant doesn't have this knowledge.

your quote you've posted in the past regarding 80% of the fossils in Chinese museums being fake is undoubtedly true, but the same thing is true of American and European museums. The vast majority of display fossils are casts of real fossils or sculptures or more often both. We almost never find whole dinosaurs and even when we do most museums won't display them or can't afford to buy them.

It's also true that most Chinese fossils for sale on ebay and around the world are fakes. But they aren't fakes designed to fool paleontologists. That doesn't work. I can spot the fakes easily, and there's lots of them.

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>>2071268

>>2072006
Yeah lol

>>2069685
>southamerica is formed

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>>2071330
>>2071341
Thanks for the information. I was seriously under the impression that tyrannosaurus hunted with poor vision and average smell, but mostly hunted based on sound. The tyrannosaurus in JP seem to have been mostly distracted based on screams or loud noises.

Now I question if tyrannosaurus in reality was so evolved for sight and smell that it was near deaf.

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Here you go

>>2072539
I meant to post this as a response to>>2067021

>>2058487
hot sauropod sex

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>>2072525
Despite an "overkill" with its sight and smelling, its hearing was also very acute and could even hear low frequency sound.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4723150.stm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8L98UtlSic


Based on its senses, it was likely a very highly active hunter scouring for food day and/or night.

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>>2065211
I think that theory had more bases in its strangely sharp hook-shaped beak.

Such a beak shape is typical for squids, carnivorous turtles, eagles and vultures.

Though there might be other reason(s) to explain this.

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>>2072552
Squid beak

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>>2072554
Alligator snapping turtle

>>2070604
mud not tar

>>2072561
How could mud get to a point where it traps massively powerful creatures like that? Can simple mud become heavy duty grade cement? How

>>2072575
They were tar pits. Tar will trap literally anything in it.

>>2072579
are you guys talking about Cleveland-Lloyd?
there's no tar there.
>>2072575
it's a bentonitic mud with significant volcanic ash. So almost like cement. If you run into a mudhole in that stuff you can easily get an elephant or a truck stuck.

>>2072556
That is so fucking bad ass.
Reminds me of the Korean turtle ships in AoE

>>2072552
Never noticed that only the tip is beak and the rest of the mouth is soft naked lips.
What a disgusting creature I'm glad it's going extinct, also a warning to everyone who thinks featherless theropos would look more intimidating.

>>2072673
Yes, a scaled creature with giant teeth is comparable to an ugly bald bird in terms of intimidation.

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>>2060794
>>2069740

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>>2065592
Diplodocus becoming a synonym ohhh jez...

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>>2073104
that's pretty much what Foster said.
>screw that, I'm not touching that problem and you can't make me.

after Brontosaurus went down nobody wants to be the guy that killed off Diplodocus.

>>2073121
I remember those from grade school in the 90's. Forgot when it was changed but I was like great, that's one more thing changed that I have to relearn. Pluto being demoted was another.

>>2073324
No sickle claws?

>>2073344
It's scipionyx.

>>2073324
Looks more like velociraptor.

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>>2058557
Technically, "Brontosaurus" excelsus was always a real species, just one that was classified as "Apatosaurus" excelsus.

Thanks to a pretty fucking exhaustive study, it turns out that the "Brontosaurus" holotype has enough key diagnostic features that set it apart from Apatosaurus to warrant a separate genus.

Ergo, Brontosaurus excelsus does into real.
Also, their necks were fucking warclubs.

>>2067003
>obviously fraudulent
Dave Peters pls leave

>>2068887
They could bend their wrists -outwards- which would be perfectly congruous with a giant-walrus-croco-whale-o-saurus lifestyle

>>2073552
>Thanks to a pretty fucking exhaustive study,
>Thanks to the current fad of interpreting individual variation as grounds for erecting a new species,
ftfy

>>2069547
>T.L : T-Rex = Tyrannosaurus Rex
Holy shit thanks I'd never have know.

>>2073595
>Thanks to the current fad of interpreting individual variation as grounds for erecting a new species,
okay

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4393826/

>>2073603
>swallows cladograms whole on authority only
okay

in a week or two that will be reversed.

>>2073606
Well, it's been holding firm for about a year now, so I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.

As for that "authority" thing, I think I'll take my taxonomics from peer-reviewed journals over random internet contrarians, thanks.

>>2073608
yeah, I understand your reluctance.

notice that your peer reviewed study cites another study that failed to support Brontosaurus as a genus,

and in fact there are ten or fifteen such studies around prior to this one that also fail to support Brontosaurus.

So you have to pretend they found something new about the bones of brontosaurus

OR

they changed the weighting of the characters to support the genus.

I'll let you take a guess which happened. I can tell you we've had these same bones for well over a hundred years now, and they've been examined in full and glorious detail by hundreds of paleontologists who all found them to be Apatasaurus.

If you read the study you so blindly cite you'll get your answer.

>>2073610
>Tschopp et al. spend years analyzing, comparing, coding, and measuring anatomical data and end up with the largest and most extensive sauropod phylogenetic analysis ever
>Literally
>Nah it's wrong because a handful of two-to-three-specimen analyses said "meh."

okay

>>2073611
It literally comes down to them weighting traits others consider to be individual variation.

as I said at the beginning.

everyone prior to this that has looked at Brontosaurus has interpreted the differences as individual variation. These guys didn't.

I never said it's wrong. I said it will be reversed.

cladograms are regularly reversed, that's their nature.

>>2073613
>everyone prior to this that has looked at Brontosaurus has interpreted the differences as individual variation
While that's true, none of those studies came even close to Tschopp et al. in terms of sample size or depth of analysis.

What might seem to be "individual variation" when you compare two or three specimens turns out to be diagnostic traits when they're shared consistently between dozens of geologically and chronologically disparate specimens.

I'm not "blindly citing" or "swallowing cladograms whole," chum. I'm acknowledging the information presented in this study and recognizing the scale.

>>2073616
In theory your cladogram should come out exactly the same no matter the sample size, so your argument doesn't hold water.

I do agree that the scale of the project affected the results, but that doesn't mean it's more accurate. It just means they included ever meaningful outgroup so there's no baseline to compare to.

anyways, your language of right or wrong shows a naïve understanding of how this stuff works. Also your belief that it's stood for a year. I can guarantee you other people have run the numbers and come up with different results since then, they just didn't publish them.

in fact the authors of your study probably got ten or twenty different results and stuck with something close to the most parsimonius one.

>>2062590
That one dino on top of the dead dino has to be noping so hard

>>2062590
was this drawn by the "Where's Waldo" guy?

>>2073595
>fad of interpreting individual variation as grounds for erecting a new species,

Jack Horner go home.

>>2073676
>Jack Horner go home.
he interprets variation as ontogenetic, not individual.

>>2073452
The head is completely different.

>>2069990
looks awesome 2bh

>>2059267
but it wasn't just one tho

>>2062558
the whole point of that theory is that birds already had all the characteristics they needed to fly when they first showed up

>>2062924
scary

>>2068388
>>2068392
fucking love that guy

>>2069565
disturbing

>>2069598
nessie?

>>2072149
not only that but fucking cities in north america

>>2058509
>a bait this awfully shit manages to get actual replies explaining this to him

sage

>>2071341
I thought the real reason behind its vision issue (from the books) was the frog DNA, as most frogs hunt by shape and movement, and that it got lost in translation into the movie.

Also JP Dinos/Petros/Mosasaurs are pretty much mutants, so here's hoping for slightly more accurate dinos in future films, at least as a sideshow.

>>2074717
nah, it's not in the books afaik.
the only part I've found so far about rex vision is when they're watching her eat. Malcolm and the others are in the truck up above. The animal stops and stares at them. He asks if she can see them, and the dude on the intercom says, "Oh yes."

>>2059267
fucking casual piece of shit

>>2075778

shut up Harry

>>2073619
>Doesn't even into statistics
>Thinks him knows how to science good
>Thinks diction is indicative of a stance's veracity
Identity-leech confirmed.
Come back when you've lost that personal investment in the taxonomy of dead lizards.

>>2058486
>biting the only sharp part of the animal

why

also that must be the fucking biggest sawfish of all time

>>2058509
this stale bait gets posted in every dino thread

>>2062922
>And his name is Cena-Saurus

>>2060794
>>2060852
>>2062923
>>2069564
>>2069643
>>2069646
>>2070599
great images

real comfy thread, cheers lads

>>2060542
be the change you want to see in the world anon

>>2062416
what about bears and lions and shit

>>2076760
yes.. yes it is Onchopristis