Poor man's rats

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Look for fancy breeders, those who show their mice (yes, that is a thing). Like other show animals, these mice are bred in part for temperament. The babies are held daily from an early age.

>>2057776

that is one handsome patrician mouse

Is your landlord smart enough to know the difference between a rat and mouse?

>>2057776
not here, that'd be a no-brainer. there are rat breeders but even they don't bother with mice. my best bet is probably some private feeder breeder.
>>2057811
yeah, he is. plus i'm not that interested in potentially have problems with him. plus i think a mouse would even suit me better maintenance-wise. and i didn't have mice yet. females shouldn't smell, right?

>>2057823
Any rodent will smell. Mice tend to smell more than rats. Just try to find an actual cage, not a tank, for your mice, and keep the bedding clean and it will be fine. I like carefresh ultra and blue buffalo's walnut cat litter.

>>2057823
Where are you located?

>>2057828
>Mice tend to smell more than rats
that sounds weird

>>2057770
Mice are awesome pets! Though you can hold them, they aren't quite as friendly as rats with being manhandled and such-as in, they probably don't want to be picked up with your hand over their back, they probably won't want to be petted much, and they probably won't want to sit on your shoulder. That being said, I had some nice mice when I was younger that did not mind being held in my palm or on my lap for a bit.

If you can, look for a nice, clean pet shop that their animals look healthy, and the staff holds the mice pretty often. That's where I got mine.

Literally playing with my mice atm
i just cleaned their cage and they are fucking around
i got allergies though
i actually hand raised a few
i was forced to cause the mother who i got was pregnant
(i opted for feeder mice as pets, because they live temporarily etc and dont take much care, seemed like the perfect pet, just like if they were fish but smarter and a lil more maint)
so obviously i got a pregnant one accidentally and then she was taking care of her babies until one day she died
so now im like fuck and they were in like 2-3 weeks time
so i started full father mode which obviously i had a life and a job and shit to do
put it this way
out of 8
4 made it far
then it was 2
then 1
that 1 ended up living about a year and a half
and had an amazing life up until 5 days ago
where she passed away of old age
she
was
a
dream
my nigga
totally worth it
but there can be some losses, i would say go for close to weaning age

>>2057828

I've never seen a commercial cage that I'd be comfortable using for a mouse. They can get their heads caught between the bars and get injured.

>>2057776

Show mouse breeding is a horrible "hobby" that involves the deaths of thousands upon thousands of animals for the sake of fancy.

They wring the necks of many healthy animals and they kill the studs if their sons conform to standard better than they. It's one of the bloodiest "hobbies" out there.

The main focus in show mouse breeding is on size and conformation. Temperament is a secondary issue.

There are many wonderful mice who need homes at animal shelters.

>>2057823

You should try finding a mouse that needs a home with www.petfinder.com

You'd be surprised how many mice are at animal shelters and rescue organizations, waiting to be adopted.

>>2057887
Seriously dude?
The unwanted mice from show breeders are turned into snake food. No different than a feeder breeder.
And show breeders do take temperament into consideration. Show mice must be handled by multiple strangers at shows, they are exposed to stressful noises and smells at shows. The mice must have decent temperaments or they won't show well. Skiddish or agressive mice do not show well, so they are culled before passing on their bad temperaments.

>>2057906

>Seriously dude?

Yeah, seriously.

>The unwanted mice from show breeders are turned into snake food.

Some of them are. Some of them just get thrown away. Either way, they really die for no legitimate reason. Pet snakes aren't a necessity--they're a hobby. They're not part of any ecosystem and keeping them results in many animals being born only to be killed without their consent to feed other animals that are being kept prisoner without their consent. All to make some people happy about keeping animals as captives as a hobby.

>Skiddish or agressive mice do not show well, so they are culled before passing on their bad temperaments.

So they die. They were born only as toys for people, and people therefore have the right to kill them?

>>2057911

Also I never said they don't take temperament into account. But the main focus is on conformation to appearance.

Either way the whole thing is fucked and a form of treating animals as toys or playthings.

>>2057911
Cry about the rights of mice somewhere else, no one here gives a shit. Besides, most show breeders keep their mice in cleaner, nicer conditions than feeder breeders.
If you want to bitch about poor mouse breeders, bitch about the feeders.

>>2057906
>>2057911
wasn't there a fucking thread for this just the other day

>>2057915

>Cry about the rights of mice somewhere else, no one here gives a shit.

I do. You can't silence me.

>Besides, most show breeders keep their mice in cleaner, nicer conditions than feeder breeders.

Most show breeders keep their mice in spartan, boring cages without enrichment. I suppose I'll concede that most likely don't keep their mice living in their own filth. But still.

>>2057920
The show breeders I know have very enriching housing for their mice. They live in specially built, multi tier cages. The mice get a specialized diet, some of them are fed sprouted oatgrass grown as fodder by the breeder.

The feeder breeders who have shown me their setups were pathetic. Mice were warehoused in many, many small tanks. They often had parasite and nutrition problems. They were bred young and often, being fed nothing but lab blocks. Why take special care of them when you would only have them a few weeks before killing them?

>>2057895
not american, but i've looked online. people don't seem to give out mice, probably just release or kill them

>>2057926

>The show breeders I know have very enriching housing for their mice. They live in specially built, multi tier cages. The mice get a specialized diet, some of them are fed sprouted oatgrass grown as fodder by the breeder.

I'm glad to hear the mice who didn't have their lives stolen by human hands for not being perfect got to live a decent life.

>The feeder breeders who have shown me their setups were pathetic. Mice were warehoused in many, many small tanks. They often had parasite and nutrition problems. They were bred young and often, being fed nothing but lab blocks. Why take special care of them when you would only have them a few weeks before killing them?

If people didn't insist on keeping snakes and similar creatures as "pets", "feeder breeders" would be made redundant.

>>2057927

Any chance you're from a Spanish-speaking country?

>>2057911
>Either way, they really die for no legitimate reason. Pet snakes aren't a necessity--they're a hobby. They're not part of any ecosystem and keeping them results in many animals being born only to be killed without their consent to feed other animals that are being kept prisoner without their consent.
You are legitimately insane. You should go join PETA or whatever, you might not stand out as such a retard if you're around similar idiots.

>>2057946
nah, why?

>>2057988

>Bullshit personal attacks

Debate me or don't.

>>2057991

Oh, I see. I asked because Spanish is my second language and I know of a few animal rescue organizations in Spain and Latin America.

>>2057941
Guess what butthurtanon- I'm going to start keeping meat rabbits soon. I'm going to breed them for food, pelts and pet food.
How does that make you feel?

>>2058020
You are completely retarded for having a specific problem with snakes. All the "normal" pets like dogs/cats have way worse shit behind their food.

>>2058020
Not the same anon your talking to but really in the grand scheme of things mice are not a thing to fight for. How about you turn your energy to things like puppy mills or deforestation. I just feel like mice are just not that big of a deal. It sucks that they are killed but there are more important things.

>>2057906
Temperaments aren't something that is passed down. It's taught.

>>2058071

Makes me feel a little bad. Why do you think you have the right to kill lots of animals when you don't even need to do it to survive?

>>2058085

>You are completely retarded for having a specific problem with snakes.

Snakes are wild animals and shouldn't have been taken from the wild to be kept as captives. The snake keeping hobby is the reason why Florida has a lot of issues with feral snakes that need to be killed--they shouldn't have even been born.

And you could say "well those were irresponsible snake keepers". But no one needs to keep snakes. It's a hobby that ends up causing a lot of suffering and death just because some people think snakes are cool.

>All the "normal" pets like dogs/cats have way worse shit behind their food.

I don't think people should breed dogs or cats either. The amount of suffering and death caused by pet-keeping is staggering but people want to ignore it because it's fun to keep pets.

>>2058107

I should add that even I think snakes are cool in a lot of ways. I don't think keeping them captive is cool though.

>>2058101

It's a combination of both.

>>2057770
There's a set of videos for taking care of orphaned mice that I find pretty informative.
https://youtu.be/sNX2byHbppM

>>2058101
Bullshit.

> I'd either get them right after they're weaned (3-4 weeks old) or risk and get them a week earlier and hand feed them for the last week

I really wouldn't recommend getting mice before they're weaned. It makes no sense to create extra work for yourself and an extra risk for both you and the mice.

>>2058104
I'm not going to stop eating meat. But I do want my meat to come from happy animals. To make sure that is happening I will raise my own meat animals.
And it's a healthier diet for my dogs and cats.

>>2058123

Well, thanks for sharing your rationale. I'm not going to discuss the matter further because I don't want to get too far off OP's topic. I see it's headed in that direction. If you want to discuss the ethics of meat production with me feel free to start a thread about it.

>>2058126
So you don't want to discuss the "suffering" of rabbits, just mice?
That's oddly specific.

>>2058129

It's a thread about mice and things relating to mice. If you want to discuss something else, it would be good to take it to another thread.

I'm willing to discuss the matter with you. Just not in this thread.