Why do we euthanize pets? Unlike humans which can commit suicide,

rest easy anon, pets are not capable of feeling betrayed or realizing somebody took it to the vet to die.

I agree. If the animal would suffer so much it would rather die then we'd see animals committing suicide but we dont see that do we. Thus it's natural to assume animals rarely if ever suffer so much they would rather die. And what right do we have to decide for them?

>>2039732
Lemmings jump off cliffs you asshat

>obligatory nociception meme

>>2039737
>being this gullible

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Misconceptions

>>2039735
We anthropomorphize animals too much, we try to see them as human but they're not.

They wanna live 100% of the time

>>2039737
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=56

>>2039732
We are animals, anything that is alive will always fight to live. That 'fight or flight' instinct isn't there for fun.

You cannot know whether the animal would choose suicide. Animals are not cognitive in the way we are, it doesn't understand death=no more. They don't have thought in that way that we do, they're wired differently.

Finally humans euthnise animals because we're not assholes. When an animal is suffering and going to die it's a lot kinder to end their suffering. That's common sense. Compare it to being illegal to commit assisted suicide I think animals sometimes get the better deal.

>>2039735
>we'd see animals committing suicide but we dont see that do we.
I don't know where you've been looking, sick animals exhibit all kinds of self destructive behaviors.

>>2039735
>natural to assume
You shouldn't make assumptions. Makes you look like an ass.

>>2039735
If an animal in the wild is suffering so much that it "would rather die" its probably going to die very soon. Being able to choose when to die or to be kept alive in critical condition is a luxury exclusive to modern life and no organism has been able to do that until the past few centuries. With the use of modern medicine we could keep an animal alive for so long most would consider it cruel to continue to prolong its life. Instincts are only good for the conditions they are adapted to

>>2039732
>when the animal CAN take its pain
yeah, but why should they if they're going to die shortly anyway? animals always struggle to live even if in agony because, unlike humans, they have no concept or understanding of death. they don't have the brain capacity to understand that the pain isn't something that might go away if they keep trying and will just end with death. if they did, then this would be a different conversation entirely. don't put your animal through a drawn out agonizing death just so you can pat yourself on the ass for giving your animal a "choice" that they aren't even able to appreciate or understand because, again, they have no concept of death

funny how the people who always think this way are the ones who don't even work with dying animals. try attempting to desperately save a dying chihuahua who has had near constant seizures for three days, who is constantly screeching in agony and covered in her own shit and piss because she can't control her bodily functions and hasn't been able to eat or drink for days and can't even sleep or stand anymore

there's a reason people like you don't actually work with animals and just whine like backseat drivers on facebook

i just hate whiny things and need them to die

>>2039750
>they have no concept of death
>they somehow have the concept of pain, agony and suffering

>betrayed your pet feels as it realizes you took it to die

With how quick and painless euthanasia is, I highly doubt the animal ever realizes it.

>they never opt for suicide

Probably because suicide is really difficult for an animal with no thumbs and no access to guns, sleeping pills, or razor blades. But the Chinese media did report an incident in which a mother bear being held captive for her bile intentionally strangled her suffering cub, then bashed herself into a wall to kill herself. Whether she knew the consequences of her action would be death is debatable, but she did kill her cub and herself in a pretty dramatic and determined fashion.

Considering animals engage in self-harm, I don't think it's farfetched that they might kill themselves in severe circumstances.

>>2039979
>the Chinese media did report an incident
well it MUST be true then.

>>2039981
If they're gonna lie, they'll usually do it to make themselves look good. How does torturing bears until they kill themselves make China look good?

Not to say it's undeniably true, I don't know.

>>2039965
>le nociception meme
if you really want to play this game, go ahead. but it only strengthens my point

if an animal can not understand or fear death and only know that they're experiencing an awful lot of negative stimuli, how is it morally wrong to stop that negative stimuli if they aren't afraid of "death" anyway?

and also
>ignoring the rest of my post

keep being the equivalent to an angry soccer mom on Facebook

>>2039984
>if an animal can not understand or fear death and only know that they're experiencing an awful lot of negative stimuli
that's a pretty fucking big "if" is all I'm saying.

why would an animal "know" it's suffering but not know about death? The very concept of self that's required to KNOW you're suffering would have to include a concept of not-self.

>ignoring the rest of my post
your opinions aren't based in reality, who cares what they are? Fiction is boring.

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>>2039986
>why would an animal "know" it's suffering but not know about death?
an animal can feel the negative stimuli. that is how they know about it.

>your opinions aren't based in reality, who cares what they are? Fiction is boring

for you to think a story like that is fiction shows how little experience you have if this subject. I told you the story of Selene, a three year old chihuahua mix who was brought in as a stray on August 24th. pic related. go into situations like that over and over and over again, then say all this. protip: you wouldn't

as I said, there's a reason people like you don't work with animals, and certainly wouldn't be able to be hired if it got out you're so irrational about euthanasia. you think purely with your own moral stick up your ass that dying has to be the worst thing ever in every circumstance for everything. you're only able to have this stance because you are capable of understanding death. for another animals, negative stimuli (pain) is that worst thing

>>2039995
>an animal can feel the negative stimuli
feeling requires consciousness.

non-conscious animals don't feel, they merely engage in it the same way a robot follows it's programming.
>you're only able to have this stance because you are capable of understanding death
humans have no concept of death.

you can't imagine not imagining.

>>2039995
>that is how they know about it
knowing something about the self requires a concept of self.
>I told you the story of Selene
who do you think I am? You didn't tell me anything.
>as I said, there's a reason people like you don't work with animals
I'm still not the person you think you're talking to.

and I don't believe for a second you "work with animals." You clean up shit at a shelter and listen to stories of actual people that work with animals.

>>2039998
I'm not going to argue the context of "feeling" with you bugfag

animals are "programmed", as you say, to avoid that negative stimuli. for them, that negative stimuli is worse than death because they don't "know" what death is or even understand it exists

>humans have no concept of death
depending what you mean. but we do understand it enough to largely fear it

>>2040000
>knowing something about the self requires a concept of self
are you trying to argue animals don't experience negative stimuli? you're not even relating this to the OP anymore

>You clean up shit at a shelter and listen to stories of actual people that work with animals
I do both. I work at an emergency animal hospital and at a shelter

>>2040000
and I forgot

>implying any job with animals doesn't involve a lot of shit

>>2040002
>are you trying to argue animals don't experience negative stimuli?
they experience negative stimuli just like your computer does.

so do you. The only difference is you're a computer that knows it exists so you're aware of the negative stimuli you experience.

it's impossible to suffer from something you don't know is happening to you.

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>>2040000
>You clean up shit at a shelter and listen to stories of actual people that work with animals
>Thinks shelter workers don't work with animals.

>>2040007
>>Thinks shelter workers don't work with animals
most volunteers get shit duty and nothing more.

honestly I'd be surprised if the anon even did that.

>>2040004
by your logic, animals would not react badly to that stimuli then

you can play word gymnastics all you want, with animals it ultimately comes down to death > negative stimuli with no relief

>>2040011
>by your logic, animals would not react badly to that stimuli then
awareness isn't required for reaction.

>>2040011
>by your logic
also this isn't MY logic.
this is the paradigm of all science with very few exceptions.

>>2040009
you seem to be confused. I'm employed at a shelter in the kennel and have been at another as well. doing work at the E-vet part time for experience and extra money before moving. way to come off as arrogant as hell though

>>2040012
>>2040017
I'm saying that this is not even related to the question OP was asking

It amazes me that the five people on /an/ haven't graduated third grade yet. It's bait, you stupid cunts.

>>2040020
>I'm employed at a shelter in the kennel and have been at another as well. doing work at the E-vet part time for experience and extra money before moving
and I'm an astronaut that moonlights as a stripper to get extra cash to support the orphans I sponsor in Nepal.

>this is not even related to the question OP was asking
It's more related than your complaint about the concept of death.

if an animal can't understand the concept of "self" then it can't suffer.

>>2040027
>I'm an astronaut that moonlights as a stripper to get extra cash to support the orphans I sponsor in Nepal

wow, you really are dense

those jobs aren't hard to get at all if you're willing to put the work in and show you know how to work with animals

>>2039732
I felt the same way after my cat was euthanized.

There's no way to rationalize it after the fact.

>>2040000
Checked

>>2039732
In my case, it was the fact that my cat WAS going to die from his blood clot, and if we did nit euthanize him, he would have suffered the whole time. We also couldn't afford the surgery that MAYBE would have saved him, and even then he would have had to suffer through a painful rehabilitation, and he was getting old. I didn't want to, I really didn't, but I didn't feel like we had much if a choice...

>>2040002
>I'm not going to argue
there's no argument possible, you'll have to misinterpret the definition for it to not require consciousness, but then again it's just a mistake on your side.
>for them, that negative stimuli is worse than death
non-conscious animals don't have opinions, we call it negative stimuli to make it easier for OURSELVES to understand what we're referring to, but it's all just stimuli to them.
>but we do understand it enough to largely fear it
we fear it because we don't understand it, humans are control freaks, we don't fear it because we do understand it.
>>2040011
the reaction is instinctive, they don't KNOW the difference between negative and positive stimuli, they merely REACT to it.

'negative stimuli' is a term used to refer to nociception, I don't think there's even a term for 'positive stimuli'

>>2039732
It's legal to euthanize pets who can't consent but it's illegal to euthanize humans who can give full consent.
Why?

>>2040365
>but it's illegal to euthanize humans who can give full consent.
it isn't as of recently anymore, as long as they gave consent before their mental state went downhill.

>>2039735
Animals don't have a concept of suicide/death, anon. an animal in horrible pain doesn't think "if I dive off this cliff and die, the pain will stop", because how/why would it ever think to do that?

>can you imagine how betrayed your pet feels as it realizes you took it to die?

No because only humans are smart enough to comprehend betrayal.

An animal doesn't even realise it's dying

An animal doesn't care if it's dead or alive.

it sucks putting an animal down but watching it die a slow painful death sucks more

dolphin trainers have been quoted on numerous occasions of captive dolphins just ceasing to breath out of despair

i once saw a pigeon (one of the earth's more intelligent animals) walk directly into the street after getting it's wing fucked up by another bird

>>2040365
more countries are changing the laws every year

>>2039737
>2016
>Believing Disney's lies

>>2040362
as usual, you aren't even arguing the point at hand bugfag. have fun in your ivory tower

>>2040026
It's not that we don't realize it's bait, though I guess I can only speak for myself, it's that we're bored as hell. It's a slow board. What else is going on?

>>2039979
>>2039981
>>2039983
I remember the article mentioned. The manner in which they harvest bile is pretty cruel and horrific. If the Chinese media lie, it is to inflate their own national ego. Otherwise the authors might end up going to 'summer camp'.