Two years after getting married my husband stopped having sex with me, started hitting me, lost his job, gained weight, threw away little money we had on stripers and when I told him I'm leaving him his only response was 'okay'.
So I left him.
Two weeks after that he commited suicide and now his family (mother and sister) blame me for his death, tell other people I drove him to suicide and his sister called my boss yesterday crying and yelling I'm a slutcunt who murdered her little brother.
What can I do with that?
Don't bother doing anything. If your boss isn't a complete moron he'll see that they're just emotional for having lost a loved one. You were probably not the only factor for him killing himself, you were probably just what finally tipped him over the edge.
>What can I do with that?
Defamation of character. Talk to a lawyer.
I am sorry to hear of your situation. He was an ex, and an abusive one at that, but I know that situations like this can sometimes touch us in ways we don't expect.
We aren't qualified to diagnose, especially not poatmortem, but it sounds like your ex had a clear case of severe depression. Everything points to it, from the loss of libido to the anger issues to the weight gain... even to the way he reacted when you said you would leave. Especially that, in fact: it's a standard trick for abusers to threaten to kill themselves if their partner leaves, but he didn't make that threat, or even resist. THOSE are the ones to worry about, but you couldn't have known that at the time.
I do not know whether your leaving hastened his death, but I suspect not, from the utter lack of resistance. He would likely have killed himself, even if you had not left. Even if your leaving did hasten his death, it was by a few weeks at most, and they would NOT have been good weeks. You are not to blame for this.
Guess no one else is going to say it.
That man needed your love and support more than ever and you abandoned him. When you married you agreed "till death do us part" yet you abandoned him. Don't pretend like you didn't spend any of the money you two had. You had no commitment. You did drive your husband to suicide.
>Not only does he do all the things that could be wrong, he also hits you
>All he needed was love!
Nah, dude was a piece of shit, it's good that he killed himself. You should probably follow his example.
He was abusive. What the fuck is wrong with you? That's disgusting.
It's his own damn fault she left, and it's his hand that pulled the figurative trigger.
You're going to tell someone who was in an abusive relationship that it's their fault their abuser killed himself? Because she LEFT, which is exactly what people who are being abused should do?
You're seriously fucking vile.
>believes one side of the story
Life is what you make of it. Sure running away made her happy but in a marriage you are supposed to be less selfish.
He abused you, and it is not your fault for taking care of yourself. I don't care how depressed he was. There are plenty of depressed people out there who don't. hit. their. wives. Also, how could it have been your responsibility to fix someone that far gone, especially when he was hurting you? His relatives may not be able to forgive you because they still see him as a charming son etc. when only you know the darker and abusive side. They may never see that because of their own paradigms and ignorances. But what is important is that you got out. Abusing you was his choice. Killing himself was his choice. Neither of those were your choices and you could have done very little to prevent them. I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP, and you really don't deserve the hate or blame in this thread. I truly wish you best of luck in healing. I'm sure you really loved him, at least in the beginning, and that loss must be tough, even with your history.
SELFISH? She's supposed to sit there and take whatever the fuck he gives her, no matter what, or she's /selfish/.
Because "they're married".
Fuck that shit. The second your significant other lays a hand on you you walk the fuck out. Marriage or not, you are not their property, and your support is not a RIGHT. You have to DESERVE someone's love and devotion.
You don't just simply get it because "they have to give it!! we're married!!"
Fuck every entitled piece of shit that says she had to "love him" and "he needed her:("
Showing sympathy to the abuser based on fucking nothing but giving this cold, cruel bullshit to an abuse victim that came here for HELP is truly the epitome of gross douchebaggery.
She did literally NOTHING wrong, and not a goddamn person on this site is in a position to judge otherwise.
She did whatever she could do in an obviously dire situation.
Yes, you believe one side of the story. You believe the side that you are here to HELP, especially in a case where they're telling you they were fucking abused and have literally nothing to gain from doing so, you absolute sick fuck.
You're so fucking disgusting, I swear to god.
Thank you all for replies. My boss got pretty upset, I've been working for her for years and she likes me. She suggested getting a lawyer and suing them as well. I'm not sure if I want to do something so drastic as I understand they may be very upset and not think clearly, thus this behavior.
You are wrong, I did love him and tried to help him. I begged him to see a professional therapist many times and it always ended in fight. I wanted him to tell me what's wrong but he always claimed everything is fine and then slapped me around for a good measure because apparently 'I never have enough'.
Of course I spent some of our money: on food and bills; I was forbidden to buy myself a new piece of clothing or even a hand moisturizer because in his mind that meant I'm cheating. The truth is, he was not a good person. I understand that he might have been depressed or maybe had some other mental problems but he absolutely refused to get help and his therapy of choice was hurting me for years. I helped him enough by not reporting abuse, otherwise he would end up in prison and would have to kill himself after getting thoroughly gangraped.
There is only as much a person can do to help their abusive spouse but I hope you will never have to learn that on your skin, anon.
Fuck you. Piece of shit deserved it. If it were me I'd be going off on his family about what a fucktard he was and how it's their fault for raising such a waste of air. Don't blame yourself OP, and don't let them blame you, people are responsible for their own shit.
Why isn't the marriage rite changed already?
A woman shouldn't be forced to be with a selfish piece of shit asshole just because someone drafted the marriage rite like that. The marriage contract should include dealbreakers like OP's husband. He deserved his death.
>husband is depressed and suicidal
>you ditch him when hes at his weakest and leave him with nothing
You may not have killed him but its like watching a baby drown in a tub while you neglect him. You didnt do any crime. But you are a shitty terrible person.
It honestly needs to be spread what happened so that no one else marries you and expects you to have any sort of commitment or love for them when everything isnt going smoothly.
>its completely out of her hands when a baby flails around determined to play in the tub
Love is going the extra step even when you "arent obligated" anymore. She treated him like a person would a stranger. Help until its not convenient or fun anymore then leave.
Under what circumstance would a good parent just say "its out of my hands" to their child. None because they actually love their child.
His death is what happens when you pretend to love someone.
Anyone believing her, entirely, when everyone mitigates their own faults, and highlights their positives, in a story such as this is a fool that lacks critical thinking. Considering we have only one side of the story, and he is unable to defend himself...
I almost believe this is a troll, as how anyone could be so callous when someone they at one point wanted to spend the rest of their life with, ends theirs...
If you aren't, and you go after his family during a time such as this... All I can say is that you are human garbage. What his sister did was wrong, but they are hurting, lashing out, and you are a convenient scapegoat. Empathy and discussion would go a long way.
>almost believe this is a troll, as how anyone could be so callous when someone they at one point wanted to spend the rest of their life with, ends theirs...
It probably has to do with someone treating her like shit for years. When people change, so do your feelings. Same thing happened with my mother and father, only he (unfortunately) didn't end his life. He just moved on to another easily broken woman and created another unhappy family.
>Empathy and discussion would go a long way.
Not with people that are lashing out trying to place the blame on her. They aren't looking to hear her out, or they would've talked to her to begin with.
>If you aren't, and you go after his family during a time such as this... All I can say is that you are human garbage.
They're lucky that her boss is so understanding. How they feel doesn't give them a right to potentially ruin her life.
What can anyone do when someone is depressed.
There are a lot of options. The situation doesnt end when he stops hitting her. Hes still a depressed suicidal person. You can force counseling if the person is showing violent tendencies without pressing charges. But if youre too butthurt that a person in their weakness lowest moments lashed out then you werent the right person to help them. And if youre not that person you shouldnt have been married.
How far does the sacrifice go? How much shit does one person have to take from the "depressed" party before it's enough? Being depressed is no excuse to treat others like crap. As someone who wasted 7 years out of my early 20s on trying to help a person like that, I can say it just doesn't work. Unless the person wants to change and get better nothing others do helps.
>How far does the sacrifice go
Do you love this person or not. If not then you dont really have to go that far.
>Being depressed is no excuse to treat others like crap
This is underdeveloped and selfish mentality. You show you are incapable of understanding the position of those truly suffering. You feel that its not an excuse but thats irrelevant to them. Because the suffering you feel from being treated like crap are first world problems to them. If you look at history, and societies of people who are truly suffering, it takes an external force to save them.
>I can say it just doesn't work.
No you didnt work. If were going to use personal examples Ive give mine. When I was a child growing up my brother had severe depression, locked up in his room, blatant disrespect to my parents. But unlike this woman my parents didnt walk out on him, they kept trying to help. He probably would have committed suicide if they abandoned him and it shows they truly loved him not to. Furthermore as a child I was incapable of understanding what he was going through. But I was also incapable of holding grudges and sandbagging. Hed hit me and Id cry and hit him back and then 5 minutes later beg him to play with me for years. As a child I didnt see the good here but this is what he said wore him down. The immense love he felt from me and how he realized how meaningless lashing out at me is what put him on the road to recovery.
Why would you treat you husband less than a family member.
Not everyone's experiences is like yours and not everyone recovers. How many years did it take for him? It's great you think you're such a selfless person and that everyone should be but the reality is that romantic love isn't unconditional. Sure if would be nice if it was and love could fix everything but that's not the reality. I would like to see you live a life with a partner where year and years of understanding and trying to make them feel better and loved does nothing, while you get miserable and more hopeless.
>That man needed your love and support more than ever and you abandoned him.
Did you read the part where he had started to hit her? The man needed help and support, yes, but he needed it from a professional, not from his victim. No one should be expected to stay once things turn toxic; he crossed a very bright line.
Sure, a saint might have stayed, but she is not a saint. And neither are you, and neither am I. There is a reason we don't hold people to such high standards.
>You did drive your husband to suicide.
That man had weeks to live at most by the time she left: the camel's back was already broken. He would have done this even if she had not left, and probably at about the same time.
Your personal experience with your brother is not universal. He allowed your parents to help him, which is how he was able to get better. But some people refuse help, and in those situations, there is absolutely nothing you can do. No amount of love and attention will make that person better. And, honestly, it doesn't even sound like he was depressed. He was probably just going through his rebellious "No one understands me" teenage phase.
>He allowed your parents to help him
No. He didnt. And I didnt say it was universal. Just that the other person seemed to believe that because they failed it always fails.
He didnt get help. He just recovered. Still treated my parents like shit but hed start playing more and more with me and when I grew older and needed him more hed help. My parents say I was the one who saved him.
>He was probably just going through his rebellious "No one understands me" teenage phase.
Suicide attempts are not just a rebellious phase that should be ignored.
>No amount of love and attention will make that person better
My experience is literally the exact opposite. Dont project because you cant love a person enough to do it. Look at the civil rights movement. Ghandi. Any movement that involved a great amount of love and compassion for their oppressor. The oppressor didnt seek help from their mentality. It was changed through the love and respect shown.
> the reality is that romantic love isn't unconditional.
I wouldnt marry someone if I only felt conditional love for them. I wouldnt treat them less than a family member.
>I would like to see you live a life with a partner where year and years of understanding and trying to make them feel better and loved does nothing, while you get miserable and more hopeless.
This is why you would fail. This is hate and spite, not love. If as a child I got miserable and more miserable as I was abused I probably would have ended up like everyone else.
Love may not be able to save everyone but it would make sure you were there til the end trying. You dont give up on someone you love.
You sound like a completely self-righteous idiot. I spent nearly all of my 20s with someone who couldn't be helped while he made me feel like crap every day and literally ruined my life by having me give up great jobs and opportunities due to his own selfishness. You have no right to spout this shit because you think you helped someone recover as a child. You don't even know what was wrong with him or what made him chance. And you didn't even do anything consciously. You were just a kid there. I can guarantee you that you would fail too in the situation I was in.
And if you think the civil rights and Indian independence movements succeeded thank to "love" alone then there's nothing else to discuss here.
> I spent nearly all of my 20s with someone who couldn't be helped while he made me feel like crap every day and literally ruined my life by having me give up great jobs and opportunities due to his own selfishness.
Sounds like you just enabled him and are complaining that nothing changed without putting in any real effort.
>And if you think the civil rights and Indian independence movements succeeded thank to "love" alone then there's nothing else to discuss here.
Youre right. They abandoned their love and let the cookies crumble.
Honestly people this bitter and incapable of love shouldnt be getting close to people.
>No. He didnt.
He had to, eventually.
>Still treated my parents like shit but hed start playing more and more with me and when I grew older and needed him more hed help.
Yes, you essentially forced him out of his shell and gave him a reason to be responsible with his life. He let you in, meaning he accepted help. "Help" doesn't necessarily mean talking to a professional.
>My experience is literally the exact opposite.
Except it's not. Your family persevered until he opened up, but it's not like he was beating the shit out of anyone. "But I said he punched me!" A jab or two is not the same as being mentally and physically abused by the person that's supposed to hold you in the highest regard.
>Dont project because you cant love a person enough to do it.
You're the one projecting, anon. "You don't know how to love, but I do!" That's all you've been telling that other anon this entire time. You're delusional.
Oh lol. What gives you the right to diagnose others over the internet like this? Where does the line between "love" and enabling go?
I'm very capable of love and i'm in a wonderful relationship now. All I'm saying is that some people can't be helped no matter what and people like you should just stop talking about thinks they know nothing about.
>I helped him enough by not reporting abuse, otherwise he would end up in prison and would have to kill himself after getting thoroughly gangraped.
For all that I've been defending you, I will say this: you should have reported him. In all likelihood, he would not have gone to prison, especially not the first time. More likely, the courts would have ordered him to seek the help he needed, and you could have worked with the prosecution to help ensure that this was what they sought.
But that was an honest mistake. You were afraid of sending him to jail. Like I said, you aren't a saint, but that isn't a fair standard to judge you by. You are still not to blame.
>He had to, eventually.
No, he didnt. He rejected my parents and it took them far longer to recover their relationship.
>He let you in, meaning he accepted help.
He let me in after realizing how meaningless trying to force me out was.
>A jab or two is not the same as being mentally and physically abused by the person that's supposed to hold you in the highest regard.
Do you honestly think it was just a jab or two. Siblings are mean and abuse each other all the time. Now imagine what a depressed one does. That being said at the time I didnt even realize he was trying to hurt me. I just didnt understand his actions were meant to be cruel. As a child I was ignorant and incapable of processing what abuse was. It was because I couldnt see that it was easy for me to love him so much. But as an adult its your job to have the strength to keep going. You arent supposed to become inferior as you age.
>by the person that's supposed to hold you in the highest regard.
Not even going to go into my relationship with my brother. This just shows you were too busy being upset to love someone enough to save them. Glad Ghandi didnt have the same views as you.
I saved my brother. What have you done?
It's more like watching a grown man willingly drown himself in the tub, and he beats you up every time you try to pull him out of the tub or convince him to get out himself. Unconditional love only makes sense for parents to have, anyone else who loves unconditionally despite years of shitty treatment is a goddamn idiot.
Sometimes you just have to let someone drown. Glad he's dead.
>I'm very capable of love and i'm in a wonderful relationship now
Sounds like youd leave the moment things went south. Like a friend whos never there when you need them. You and I have different concepts of love and Id chalk the difference of our results up to that.
>I didnt even realize he was trying to hurt me.
And that's the point. You were a kid who couldn't understand the situation. An adult who knows what's going on and is doing everything they can only to be thrown in the mud can't go on indefinitely. I really wonder if you realize how dumb you sound.
>Unconditional love only makes sense for parents to have
You gotta find the terrible people first before you marry them. Please make sure to inform anyone connected to you that you think this way.
I wouldn't call staying for 7 years "leaving the minute things go south". You and I don't have different concept, we have different levels of experience. What you are talking about is completely different from what I'm talking about. You were a kid who barely understood what was going on and your parents had each other and you. I on the other hand didn't have anyone to rely on. How can you possibly talk about love and completely lack empathy for other people's situations?
>An adult who knows what's going on and is doing everything they can only to be thrown in the mud can't go on indefinitely.
Wonder where I can read Ghandi's speeches and find this.
Love isnt for everyone. You cant save people because you cant love unconditionally.
Your post literally confirms that unconditional love works, just that you were too much of an adult to be capable of it so you failed.
>He let me in after realizing how meaningless trying to force me out was.
But he still let you in. He still accepted help. Stop trying to dance around this.
>This just shows you were too busy being upset to love someone enough to save them.
You seem to think that you're talking to the same person. There are multiple people here. You also seem to think that every situation in salvageable. You're under grand delusions if you think Ghandi is the rule and not the exception.
>I saved my brother. What have you done?
You didn't even know what you were doing. You were just there, because you had no other option, and he made the choice to let you in. He accepted help. You've essentially done nothing but exist.
>This is why you would fail. This is hate and spite, not love. If as a child I got miserable and more miserable as I was abused I probably would have ended up like everyone else.
What you're describing sounds more like codependency than love, dude.
I've got some bad news for you: people do not "just recover" from this sort of thing. It is possible that he found a way to cope, but that is not the same thing. You brother likely still has the same issues he had before, just under a better mask.
You think I had my parents help. Cute. He refused anything to do with them. The only help I got was that they loved him enough not to abandon him like OP.
I can sympathize with wanting to abandon someone because its inconvenient to you. Everyone can. But empathy is impossible because conditional love like this isnt capable of helping someone.
>I can guarantee you would run your tail between your legs if you got into an abusive relationship.
I don't think he would. I think he would get himself killed, and blame himself for it at the last.
You think I had my parents help. Cute. He refused anything to do with them. The only help I got was that they loved him enough not to abandon him like OP.
I can sympathize with wanting to abandon someone because its inconvenient to you. Everyone can. But empathy is impossible because conditional love like this isnt real.
Reading comprehension? I said you didn't even know what was going on and your parents had EACH OTHER and you. It's a little easier to handle something if there are other (good) things in your life other than the depressed abuser. You were a family. A family with someone who was depressed. You didn't do anything and you were barely conscious but you have the nerve to spout this shit lol. Your love wasn't unconditional, you were just too young or stupid to even grasp the situation. Making someone play with you because you can't even see they're depressed isn't love.
>But he still let you in.
Obviously this is my point. That with unconditional love I was able to help him. If you dont love them obviously youd never be let in.
>You're under grand delusions if you think Ghandi is the rule and not the exception.
You think ghandi thought like you. If you think like this you will never be the exception.
>You've essentially done nothing but exist
Youre trying to bypass the point by saying that my love was nothing. I could go by just what hes said and knew that just existing wouldnt save anyone.
>hes only pretending to be a functioning happy member of society with a life
He still has his issues and gets triggered by things. But hes far more capable of handling them now.
>Your love wasn't unconditional
Spoken like someone who doesnt understand what love is. As I said, Id chalk up the difference of our results based on our conceptions of love.
>Your brain wasn't developed enough to understand why someone wouldn't play with you
Oh the excuses youre making because of your own inability to love.
Wheres the condition on the love.
You certainly had your parents' help in constructing and reinforcing this narrative for yourself. They've done you both a grave disservice. They should have gotten him actual help, by force if necessary.
I've got some news for you that you aren't going to dig. People do not "just recover" from things like your brother did. It IS possible that he found a way to cope -that happens sometimes- but it's not the same thing. He still has what he had before, just under a better mask, and he will continue to have it until he gets real treatment. You did not "save him" just because he is still alive.
I know what love is from having it and enduring through hard times. Not being selfish and running off the moment things were inconvenient. Thankfully I can look at history and see people like Ghandi and know that my ability to love isnt wrong.
>That with unconditional love I was able to help him.
It had nothing to do with your love for him. He let you in because he was sad, lonely, and he wanted nothing to do with your parents. You could've been a family pet and the situation would've turned out the same.
>You think ghandi thought like you.
Jesus Christ, what is your obsession with Ghandi? I can hardly breathe.
>If you think like this you will never be the exception.
Statistically speaking, it'll be a long time before we see another Ghandi.
>Youre trying to bypass the point by saying that my love was nothing.
You're love wasn't nothing--I'm sure you love your brother a lot. But the effort to get better was made by him, not you. You were too young to know what was going on, or to love unconditionally. You even said so yourself.
Okay, something has gone weird here. You and I are both starting to forget what we said just minutes before, and repeating ourselves because of it. I thing this may be moving too quickly to be useful.
>Thankfully I can look at history and see people like Ghandi and know that my ability to love isnt wrong.
That's it, I'm out.
>I know what love is from having it and enduring through hard times.
I'm not sure you do. You think this is love, no douby about it, but what you describe is something rather darker. Not even Gandhi was as absolutist about this feeling you call "love" as you are. To go that far you'd have to find someone like Peace Pilgrim, and beautiful though her story is, she wasn't sane.
>He let you in because he was sad, lonely
Yeah, because he didnt try to push me away. This projecting. How do you think a depressed person handles a child annoying them. that they just let them in. It took years to wear him down.
>Jesus Christ, what is your obsession with love? I can hardly breathe.
I know love is hard for you to understand.
>Statistically speaking, it'll be a long time before we see another Ghandi.
You dont have to save an entire nation. Just 1 person.
>to love unconditionally
No it was unconditional love.
>But the effort to get better was made by him, not you
If you want to word it that way Id say it was me and my love that made him want to get better.
>ITS NOT LOVE. BECAUSE IF YOU LOVED HIM YOU WOULD HAVE ABANDONED HIM
You dont seem to understand what love is. I may not have been able to understand what he was going through, but anyone, even a child can see hostility directed at them. But I didnt care because I was a child. Id cry and be over it.
>That's because you have no actual arguments and you keep writing the same shit so people have to keep countering with the same arguments.
The posts he repeated himself on weren't in response to anything I wrote. I'm responsible for >>16692004 and >>16692046 (repeating myself), and also >>16692056 (noticing the repetition). He did >>16692006 and >>16692011.
>How do you think a depressed person handles a child annoying them
As someone that suffers from depression, I don't. I blanked a lot of people out. It took self-realization and effort on my part to let people in. No one can break that wall, otherwise.
>Jesus Christ, what is your obsession with Ghandi?
>Jesus Christ, what is your obsession with love?
Fuck, this is too good.
>If you want to word it that way Id say it was me and my love that made him want to get better.
I think you're belittling the effort he had to put in, and the self-love he had to grow, for his own mental health.
You know it's actually really sad that your identity as an adult is all about something you did unconsciously as a child. It's great if you think you're such a selfless and loving person but your inability to understand how others may feel, and you efforts to keep tooting your own horn while putting others down, just go to show that you're nothing but a rotten lost person inside.
my two repeating post were directed at the same post and are almost word for word copy clearly showing the first post was probably unintended.
Which is different then saying the same thing in response to different post.
>As someone that suffers from depression, I don't.
Thank you for proving my point
>I think you're belittling the effort he had to put in, and the self-love he had to grow, for his own mental health.
Youre belittling how he was saved by being loved.
>No it was unconditional love.
No, it was a five-year-old seeking approval from family members, because that's what five-year-olds do. I do not think that your parents lied to you: they doubtless honestly believed what they said to you. But we also know they're not experts on the human psyche. They have him peggged wrong, and they have you pegged wrong
>youre a rotten person inside for being capable of unconditionally loving someone
I can look back and know that love can save people and it keeps me from becoming someone like you who can only conditionally love.
>Or any parent who loves their child no matter how many tantrums they through.
There is a distinct difference between throwing a tantrum and abusing the people who love them. Love understands when the person you fell in love with is gone.
>love is just seeking approval from people you love.
>its not love
This is just sad. But I dont expect anything else. If I agreed with your idea of love Id have failed in saving my brother. Glad I dont.
>Love understands when the person you fell in love with is gone.
You seem to think the person you love cant become depressed. Why would you marry someone with that kind of condition.
And you seem to belittle how much shit a parent has to go through to raise a child.
>my two repeating post were directed at the same post and are almost word for word copy clearly showing the first post was probably unintended.
>Which is different then saying the same thing in response to different post.
If anything, I'd think the second post was unintended, not the first.
Andbesides like you said: ALMOST word-for-word. This board isn't /r9k/, but there are some protections against double-posting. You rewrote that same post, just like I did.
Whatever you want to tell yourself. The truth is you kept pestering him because children aren't developed enough to understand rejection. Anyway doesn't matter, nothing others say will make you see reality. Just hold onto your ideals when you do come across someone who would actually needs help. Pretty sure you'd run for the woods cause you don't seem to have any emotional experience.
>you rewrote the same post directed at the same post
Thats not what you did. Mine was clearly a mistake. Not me spouting the same thing as if saying it again changed anything.
There is no point in repeating the same post directed at the same post. Thats not what you did though.
And if you understood how this board in particular works. posting is harder so mistakes are more likely to be made if something goes wrong. Like it saying your first post failed when it didnt.
>You seem to think the person you love cant become depressed. Why would you marry someone with that kind of condition.
Actually, I married someone who became depressed. And I have stayed with her. But unlike OP's ex, she has not become abusive.
>And you seem to belittle how much shit a parent has to go through to raise a child.
And you seem to belittle how much shit an abused spouse or relative goes through. Abuse is no mere tantrum.
You are so determined to believe that people cant be saved and are so upset that I was capable of saving someone.
Im so thankful I didnt turn out like you. And I get to have my brother because I dont think like you.
My reality is that when you love someone unconditionally you can save them.
Whats your reality for how abandoning depressed people?
Its so sad to watch someone say that because they are a failure everyone is a failure and run circles to dismiss others accomplishments.
You failed because you didnt love enough.
But just like OP didnt love her husband enough I dont love some stranger on 4chan enough to jump through hopes to save you from your 'reality'
>Thats not what you did. Mine was clearly a mistake. Not me spouting the same thing as if saying it again changed anything.
Mine was also a mistake. That's how I know you did the same.
>There is no point in repeating the same post directed at the same post.
There is if you don't remember saying it.
>And if you understood how this board in particular works.
I've been here for three years. I know how this board works.
>posting is harder so mistakes are more likely to be made if something goes wrong. Like it saying your first post failed when it didnt.
When did I say my first post failed?
I dont see why you need to know that.
Well obviously ive had human contact since Im a functioning member of society capable of love.
Dont see why youd need to know that though.
>People have a hard time believing you actually think you saved anyone and have the nerve to lecture them.
I don't know; I find it pretty easy to believe that he thinks he saved his brother. He was told so by people he trusted implicitly, but had no idea what they were talking about. Nothing implausible about that
lol so a depressed person isnt capable of determining the factors in their life that led to their recovery.
Feel free to continue only being capable of conditional love. I only feel bad for the people youll never save.
>So youd abandon her if she became more abusive
Hold on a second. What do you mean by "more" abusive? Are you implying that she is already abusive in some way, just by being depressed?
>Abuse is no mere tantrum
>lol you honestly seem to believe that parents have it easy. Not even worth discussing.
I said no such thing. Not even close. Of course parents don't have it easy. But there's a very bright line between tantrums and abuse.
As an adult Im capable of realizing that unconditional love is what saved my brother and that people like you who abandon people in their time of need are incapable of saving someone like my brother.
Its honestly ridiculous to see you project your failure on others.
>Yeah but an adult would revisit the situation logically and at the very least realize his holier-than-thou attitude is ridiculous to say the least.
Not necessarily. When has he had reason to revisit it? For all we know, this thread may be the first time it's even come up for him.
Parents go through more than tantrums yet that seems to be all you think they do in comparison to a spouse. Its belittling of their effort and a lack of respect for what it takes to rear a child.
I would personally inform them that I'm going to sue them if I hear any more harassment.
You did not kill your husband, his depression did. You were not qualified to be his therapist, you had every right to leave the abusive situation.
>lol so a depressed person isnt capable of determining the factors in their life that led to their recovery.
Often not, no. Just as they often aren't capable of determining the factors that led to theur depression in the first place. Depression does not work that way.
>Feel free to continue only being capable of conditional love. I only feel bad for the people youll never save.
Funny you should mention that, because by your definitions, I actually have "saved" a few people. But they never became abusive, and they are not cured.
You cannot help someone once they begin to abuse you. Any attempts at doing so will only reinforce the abuse pattern, which will itself trap them in the depressive patterns. Leaving them is the best thing you can do to help them, because it forces some of those patterns to break. Sometimes they collapse under that forced change, and that's a shame when it happens. But it is still the best thing you can do.
>That's true. I'd just think someone who holds "love" so dear would be more understand towards other people's circumstances.
Someone who holds love so dear would be more understanding. That's why I compared this to codependency. He's showing some of the classic defense mecanisms.
You dont have any context.
Its sad to see that you dont think recovered depressed people realize and apologize for their actions when they are no longer in that dark place.
Well what if they last for years and you try your best but nothing helps? I realize you think people are just weak but you should try to imagine what kind of a toll it takes to see the person you love being so deep in it with nothing you can do.
Good god, this is stupid.
If she lost her job over this, she would have a real case in my state. The sister isn't just "wrong" she's as big a fuck up as the dead husband is.
He lost his right to have a side after he got violent.
>Its sad to see that you dont think recovered depressed people realize and apologize for their actions when they are no longer in that dark place.
They do, but that only applies to post-recovery apologies. You don't trust an apology made by someone still in that dark place: you demand that they get help, and when real apologies are even pissible, THEN you accept. Maybe. But that doesn't happen until the patterns are broken once and for all, and THAT cannot happen while you are still present.
This is /adv/. Of course you should believe the side of the story that is given you.
Not because it is never, ever false, but because it's the only way you can give any productive advice.
OP: I cut my finger, what should I do?
/adv/: [if your post is true,] apply plaster
not "how do I know you really cut it???"
Not care, he chose to end his life, not you. Whether you directly or indirectly caused it doesn't matter. Unless you explicitly told hinted towards such an end, just go on with your daily life.
I think it should be noted a, person should be careful of doing so much for others. If you give everything to other people and don't take care of yourself, you wont have anything left. You'll also be in a state were your worn down and now, not in a position to help anyone anymore as you can't even do anything for you
>But it does.
In outdated movies and ancient cliches, yes In real life, no. I do not doubt that you believe your story, and I am sad to hear what you were told by people who had no business telling you that. But what hppened to you and your brother isn't what you think.
>Why do you hate depressed people so much.
Hate them? I married one. Frankly I was hoping not to play this card, but I am one as well. My specific diagnosis is dysthymia. And I have had it for a very long time.
I remember believing that another person's unconditional love would save me. I prayed every night for a decade at least, adding ever-increasing caveats when I could no longer deny that yet another person loved me, and yet I was not saved. Eventually it drove me to such distraction that I lost the ability to pray, but toward the end I must have sounded like a drug commercial with all the caveats and legalese. Your brother must have felt the same.
Eventually, of course, I got my wish. But it only came after I accepted that true love would not save me. And, in fact, it did not. But coming to my senses about love did set me on a new path: one where I could get the help I needed. And I did, and though I am not out just yet, I am more clearly on the road out than I had been for many years. And I still have that love I mentioned before; I just have a better sense of its power, and its limitations. And that is how I can know that something is very wrong about the story you've told.
Did you even read the post you're responding to? What's with this "how depressed you must be" thing; I stated outright that I was depressed. I made no attempt to hide it, yet you're treating it like some grand revelation. And how do you get from "being depressed" to "hating depressed people"? anyway?
>Like if you partner gets some serious disability suddenly. You cant just bail because youre worn out.
Funny you should mention this. I've told you that my wife became depressed, but I didn't say how; in fact, she DID get a serious disability suddenly. And no, I have no intention of bailing, and yes, it is something of a strain sometimes. But I would not bail just because I got worn out.
But she still has not become abusive. If she did, then yes, I would leave. Not because I was worn out, but because it would be dangerous for me to stay. None of this means that I do not love her. I do not believe she ever would become abusive. But I am human too, with rights and needs, and although I do have a mental illness, I am not so far gone that I cannot take care of myself. There are limits to sane love.
Nobody is a true villain, OP could have easily stopped the tragedy if she had thoughts beyond herself .
/adv/ is a gross, selfish place. The number one response to relationship trouble here is "break up"
>This is disgusting
>The way you talk about your marriage and how it hasn't fallen apart as some badge of fucking honor
Funny; you were just talking about people sticking together through thick and thin as the highest ideal. And here I am doing it, and now you call it disgusting? You can't have it both ways, OP.
>I never said that?
Yes, you did. And I quote:
>You gotta be strong enough to carry the both of you. Like if you partner gets some serious disability suddenly. You cant just bail because youre worn out.
You just compared the idea of staying with an abusive partner to staying with someone who suddenly got a disability. And here I am, doing the latter, yet I would not do the former, and you call me disgusting for that.
Indicentally, I don't think that my staying with her is a particularly high ideal, or that it should be a badge of honor. I think it's baseline human decency: something I don't always live up to in some ways, but I do measure up in this aspect, at least.
And yet, there are still limits. I would never think less of someone leaving an abusive spouse. Not even if the abuser had become disabled. There are things you stay through, and things you do not, and abuse is one of the few things where you do not.
I am sorry. I realize I'm ripping a precious childhood illusion to shreds here. I don't enjoy that. But you are going to get yourself killed one of these days if you don't wise up.
>But still, if you can't see the difference your a moron
If you think my a moron, then THAT is something I'll take pride in. Heck, even if you think I'm a moron, I'll take some pride in that.
that person isnt me..
>If she did, then yes, I would leave.
Theres the worth of your marriage lol. Might as well have written it in your vows.
>If something terrible happens to you and you become abusive in you worst time Ill leave you
I have friends better than you. Not sure why youre married.
>And here I am doing it, and now you call it disgusting?
Honestly you shouldnt. Your love is so conditional that person is right. Its disgusting to imagine that poor woman trapped with you.
>I can only enable or abandon my spouse when they are at their lowest
There you have it. Incapable of loving a person. Just there for the highs of the ride and to passively sit by during the lows. Sickening really. Yet you honestly think you love her.
You can try to help your spouse through a rough patch but to say a person should take whatever abuse is thrown at them is retarded to say the least. The way that guy worded it implied he means if she became permanently abusive. There is no need to stay with someone who has lost sight of their love.
>that person isnt me..
You're stooping to using sock puppets now? I expected better of you.
>You honestly dont love you wife if you can say this.
You honestly don't know what love is if you can say this.
Then again, you tipped your hand on this when you touted Gandhi as an example of love. He accomplished great things without violence, no doubt about it, but he had no love for his oppressors. He was a man driven by principle, not by pathos. If you want to see an example of the the latter, then I point you once again at Peace Pilgrim.
>Everyone who disagrees with me is the same person
lol just sad. But cute at the same time
> he had no love for his oppressors
Youve never read Ghandi and yet you really want to talk about him. Really pathetic now.
>people who speak of love are lying
My sides. Keep pretending to love your wife.
>if she became permanently abusive
Yeah because a person in their lowest moments is indicative of how they will always be.
I dont understand why you would marry someone like this. I have better friends.
>If you cant love your spouse when they are hurting the most why would you marry them?
Hold on; do you think I would fall out of love with my wife if she turned abusive? Of ciurse I woukdn't; not at first, anyway. Emotions are funny that way. And I would do my best to leave before that could happen.
And I've probably just confused you even more. Why would I leave someone I still loved? Because that would be the only way I could fight for her: by forcing the cycle of abuse to break. It is not something I could do while still with her; anything else I did would only feed it further. And so it would hurt like hell, but yes, I would leave, because that would be the only thing left that I could do for her. And yes, there would be risks involved, but there are ways to minimize them. I would see to it that she was taken care of. OO didn't handle those risks so well, but that doesn't make her to blame; he had clearly already made his choice by the time she left.
>love is all about conditions
I know your love for you wife is filled with conditions and is very complicated because there are so many reasons why youd leave her to die. But its not that way for everyone.
Could you inform me of the movie you think Im referencing. Id be curious to see what their views on love are in comparison to mine.
I hope you arent just making empty claims here.
>I cant read
Point out where Ive used 1 other insult like moron or aspie in all of the text you think Ive posted here.
Its obvious its someone else. Ad hominems are the lowest form of arguing and I take it as a sign that you cant retort and pretty much accept you loss. Which is why I appreciate your insults.
No movie in particular. The shit you spout reminds me some tear filled scene and montage where the spouse keeps abusing the other party mentally and physically and he just hugs her tighter with tears in his eyes and then magically they're better after a week long time skip. Real life doesn't work like that.
>I fight more my depressed suicidal spouse by taking away the one person who loves them
Im crying. Man, feels good having friends better than this. Much suck for your wife.
>trying to dismiss an argument again without evidence
>>16690345 I'm thinking that 4chan was the worst possible place to post a question like that, judging from the troll activity here. That being said....
You were not responsible for your husb's death- he was most likely depressed and suicidal even before you left him. His family are angry, looking for someone to blame. Without knowing anything about them and just going on what his sister said to you, I'm guessing they aren't the most well-grounded ppl in the world and I'd advise you to give them a wide berth. If I was in your shoes I'd strongly consider moving to another town- you need to let the dust settle and deal with your own issues around this event. You also need to explore why you picked this flawed and troubled man for a husb. in the first place. I'm willing to bet that even before you were married there were things "not quite right" with him and your relat'ship. You have work to do, but you will have a harder time of it the more you subject yourself to the abuse.
p.s. Best of luck.
p.p.s. it is NOT your fault.
>experience not loving someone and abandoning someone in their time of need is enough experience and evidence
Im sure youre counting OP killing her husband as experience as well.
>I know your wife is filled with conditions and is very complicated because there are so many reasons why you'd leave her to die.
"Filled with"? " So many"? I only mentioned one. Sure, that's not as simple as you, but it's not complex by any stretch of the imagination.
>Youre right. Its as simple as youd leave her when things seemed inconvenient to you.
If that were true, I'd have skipped out when for first became disabled.
I get it now, I think. An older brother abused his younger brother, but you weren't the younger brother, were you? You're the elder, still stuck in a depressive/narcissistic haze, holding desperately onto some shreds of self-esteem that, as an abuser, you do not deserve.
>Block their numbers and move to a different city.
The problem is that they've gone and taken their drama public. They will likely follow her. The only choice is to come down hard. Fortunately, they've handed her the easiest defamation case ever. Get a lawyer, and slap them with restraining orders.
>the mentality of people who cant love their spouse
You know, it's funny. I've been thinking that as a survivor of abuse, both from your brother and less directly from your parents, you should know more about this. But you didn't survive, did you? You're still right in the middle of it; you haven't gotten out. And you're so far under that you don't even WANT to get out; you're still insisting that your absolute submission and submersion are love.
I pity you.
you read exactly like a CoDependant person. look it up and gain a little life experience before you spout bullshit about how people should take years of physical abuse in the name of "love" as you call it. but the funny part is that what you think of as "love" is likely a sign of your own mental issues. you know what they say, the only one sicker than an abusive/addict who refuses help is the person that chooses to stay with them. you have a complex that makes you obsessed with being the "savior" so you can feel good about yourself and have a delusion of being holier than thou. you're nothing new or special. never will be
and fyi: baby brother drama with your whole family is nothing compared to an actual abusuve relationship. try getting beaten and mentally torn down every day for years, then come here with this bullshit. protip, you won't
She left her husband but made sure to stay married and collect the inheritance. No police reports or evidence of the abuse but tells everyone he did now that he's dead and can't defend himself. Very convenient!
In all honesty I feel sorry for your failed marriage and about the loss you went through. Try talking to a lawyer or someone professional in this field. 4chan is filled with hipsters.
>anyone who loves someone will be killed by abusive partners
Not everyone is capable of love. But those that cant shouldnt pretend or you'll just end up killing your husband.
>She left her husband but made sure to stay married and collect the inheritance
Is there anywhere in the country that can possibly process a divorce in only two weeks? For all we know, she could have been trying to rush a divorce, and it wouldn't have mattered; she would still have been legally married when he committed suicide.
>Rare to see projection of this level.
You know something, Vizzini, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
The thing is, "projection" is when you try to attribute negative qualities to your target when in fact they do not possess these qualities, but you do.
You put great stock in the idea that you would stay in an abusive relationship. I put great stock in the idea that I would not. Neither of us disputes the above, therefore, no projection.
You claim that I am not capable of love, because I would not stay in an abusive relationship. This is not projection, because I do not dispute the idea that I would leave an abusive spouse. You are still wrong, but you are not projecting.
Likewise, I claim that you have no idea what love is, because you claim that love is when you stay with someone even when they abuse you. You do, in fact, claim that love is when you stay with someone even when they abuse you. Therefore, no projection.
You are wrong about me because you think this means I am attaching conditions to my love: a fact that I have refuted time and time again. You are misrepresenting my beliefs, which is its own manner of dishonesty: your argument has 99 problems, but projecting ain't one.
Likewise, I am not misrepresenting your beliefs. I say that you claim that love is when you stay with someone even if they become abusive, and you have explicitly stated this very things many times. Every time I have had to represent your beliefs, I have done so based on the things you have said, adjusting as needed (not that I've had to do this very often), but I have been careful to represent the things you say as accurately as possible, and then used them to indict you as not having the faintest clue as to what love really is.
And that is the difference between this. You indict me based on things I am not. I indict you based on things you are.