So let's say you are really getting along swimmingly with a girl. The future looks great, your own relationship is swell. The topic of your converting from no religious belief to her Catholicism, for marriage, comes up.
She states you'd prevent her from being sacrificed, it would save her trouble, and her family would be more pleased if you would do so.
What would you do?
Nope. A reasonable person would understand that there's like a 2:1 ratio of religious women vs. men. They can't expect every man to be religious the same way we can't expect all women to deepthroat.
If you feel like finding a middle ground, agree to a religious wedding ceremony. Maybe put up a bit of a front for her parents, if needed. But above all, don't let her trick you into the weekly sermon bullshit. Fuck that noise. She'll especially push it more once you have kids.
Anyway, congrats on landing a latina. She's gonna look like shit after she's pregnant but enjoy the ride.
Well I'm nonreligious now. Going catholic would require a years' worth of weekly multihour meetings.
I'm just not feeling like I should buy-in to self inflicted guilt, nor would I want that for my children -- I certainly would provide an alternative perspective to religion.
>religious wedding ceremony
The catholics are wise to this and have you go through a pretty long indoctrination period. It would require a years' worth of weekly investment/time to put up a front.
Things have been going well up until recently because we're about to both level up our careers, and she has more time to think about things outside of work.
I didn't grow up in a culture that required belief in god. I also didn't feel any need to attribute what goes on around me to some higher being. It's hard enough trying to figure out how stuff actually works.
As a Catholic, allow me to say that converting is a perfectly fine idea.
Not because I want you to believe in my interpretation of spirituality, but because I know firsthand that being a Catholic requires absolutely no effort or sacrifice on your behalf. You could very easily claim you are a Catholic, unbaptized and never attending church, and still qualify as a Catholic. It is the lazy man's religion. You can do pretty much anything you want and as long as you say sorry afterwards it's just fine. You actually end up contributing even LESS than atheists, since not even people on the internet give a damn about Catholicism's views (and neither will you as a practicing Catholic.)
If your girlfriend really sees becoming a Catholic as some sort of ultimatum and believes you'll have to work at it "for her," congratulations; you just hit the jackpot. The absolute worst you will get is having to sometimes go to mass on Sundays, and that fucking crap can be done at 6pm if you want. Compare this to, say, promising she'll maintain her weight during your marriage and YOU have it easy my friend. Just don't spill the beans and let her in on how easy being a Catholic is. Even some Catholics don't realize it.
>The catholics are wise to this
They'll ask for all kinds of shit, like making you get confirmed PLUS make a huge tithe that's not part of the ceremony fee.
The pastor will cave in if you just walk away from the offer like you'll just get it done at a government office. You gotta haggle like you're at a thrift store.
Alright. You're a mortal. You'll never figure out what's actually going on. But know that we are here for a reason even if it is not one we can ever find due to causality etc. So there is a God. Now that you have that much in common with her, illustrate the divine stupidity of letting some guy in Rome pretend to be God. Boom, she's now of your religion. The problem is her family is probably really connected to the Church due to their upbringing and community, so what you have to do is acquire a lot of charisma and convert her hometown to your religion
Ah fuck it all OP. It
Wait, what do you mean prevent her from being sacrificed? She mean she's going to hell for it?
Okay well youre not gonna believe it, and she'll know it, so she'll still go to hell even if you pretend to convert.
The real issue is the community, her family and its church.
Jesus Christ OP, marry an atheist.
>I also didn't feel any need to attribute what goes on around me to some higher being.
I just dont get it. Im a physics grad and the more I learn about stuff, the more I see just how much contrived bullshit is needed for everything to be the way it is.
Guess its a humility thing.
Ex-Catholic here. Sounds like a load of horseshit to me. People who aren't baptized or confirmed or who only go to church twice per year are treated worse than Protestant whores.
>Only God knows the solution to string theory, therefore he must exist.
You should maybe brush up on Physics history and realize that 99% of our understanding has only occurred in the past century.
Broken theories exist only because you haven't discovered better ones yet.
>People who aren't baptized or confirmed or who only go to church twice per year are treated worse than Protestant whores.
By whom? If you never go to church where am you going to find someone to mistreat you? lol
You probably dont even know what string theory is.
Nothing will trigger me faster than pop culture physicist. The exact answer to string theory has no bearing on how contrived everything is. If you brushed up on physics above quantum level youd see that. And to let you know a secret, most physicist dont 'believe' in string theory. Unlike other sciences we accept we literally know nothing about our field. Down side is that we cant get funding to colliders because of that.
>prevent her from being sacrificed
Sounds like a waste of time
she doesnt owe your time to them, either go with pretending to be one of them or go with the firm "nah" while you still can
Ultimately what really matters is how this would change you life. If you're not going to be forced to go to regular services and bible stuidies and it's just so you can have the catholic wedding, then alright.
But you also have to talk about how you'd raise the kids. If all this talk is way too serious for you, DO NOT CONVERT until it's relevant vis a vie marriage.
>I'm triggered by 99% of the population
Cry about it, nerd.
I have plenty of faith in scientific progress because I'm an engineer. We've weaved some crazy fucking magic in our generation and it's only getting better. You're not humble, you're willfully ignorant.
Im very triggered when pop culture physicist try to argue physics with me.
>We've weaved some crazy fucking magic in our generation
You think weve accomplished something. Cute. In respect to the levels of wizardry that govern the universe its minuscule.
>You're not humble, you're willfully ignorant.
No it is you that is ignorant. You see the tip of the iceberg from miles away and think we are making progress. Im standing right beside it. We dont know that answer to string theory because its literally impossible to test things about it. We have possible solutions, but no way of telling whats what because its impossible to measure anything smaller than a planck length. Im getting triggered by your stupidity. You think we understand relativity because some engineers are capable of using it. Our current model is only a little better than classical mechanics. Youre just working with out assumptions we know dont actually answer anything.
>You can do pretty much anything you want and as long as you say sorry afterwards it's just fine.
This is actually true. It's why my mom could yell things like "Jesus fucking Christ" at me when I didn't answer the phone, while still being the morally better person than me because she went to Church and got her get-out-of-hell-free card renewed all the time whereas I stopped going.
She probably just wants to be able to have the marriage in a church. If you do the classes and then convert, you score big points with her and the family which would be really worth it in my opinion. After you get married you don't really have to worry about it anymore.
If she wants to raise the kids Catholic she can be the one who takes them to church while you stay home on Sundays. Once they get older they'll probably rebel against it anyway because Mass sucks.
I got a lot of shit for not getting confirmed but otherwise it's just snide jabs at Christmas about how I must worship Satan.
Otherwise, not too bad.
>If I keep dropping mentions of pop culture Physics (like Planck lengths) maybe someone will be impressed.
You keep trying to argue this stupid "We don't even know the unknown unknowns!" bullshit like M. Night Shayamalan got his hands on a Lovecraft book. Pondering infinity just makes you look like some shit-shoveling agnostic, not a theist.
Now we are on to pop culture math lol. I figured Id try to give you some understanding about why we dont know anything but you seem content that magic will reveal itself on its own one day.
This guy lol
If there's one thing that's accurate about TBBT even if it's a terrible show its that scientists think engineers are mentally inferior and your doing a great job of showing why.
Stop you have no idea what you're talking about. You only learnt BASIC physics so you can do engineering. You're not a fucking physicist.
>watching the worst sitcom in the world
>compares the internet to logic gates
>didn't even try to explain engineering
>"hurr I'm not dumb! You're dumb!"
You really showed me with those hot arguments, bruh.
>everyone who disagrees with my pop culture physics memes is a samefag
I wasnt going to call you mentally inferior but its hard to say otherwise.
Also it seem you dont know how information is transmitted, yet you call yourself an engineer.
>No evidence=no god
This is how you stay in the stone age.
There was no evidence for relativity yet it was the only logical answer. There was no evidence for the neutrino yet it was the only logical answer. There was no evidence for the higgs yet it was the...
Your mentality is severely underdeveloped.
if you actually believe in god you're far more cynical than an atheist
Since when are the evil actions of man Gods fault. People who try to blame bad things on God are just butthurt. Youd be complaining to God that you didnt have free will otherwise.
Just be glad God sent them to Russia where they got fucked over for it.
millions of people were murdered for literally no reason at all, a god that had the power to prevent that but didn't isn't a god worth praying to. That is a god that clearly does not care about the affairs of mortals, so why should mortals care about him?
Evidence!=Observable to naked eye.
We have other means and tools to observe everything else you described.
And until it was observed, the Higgs Boson was a hail mary.
You can make any claim you want, but try to understand that extra-ordinary claims require evidence and that the burden of evidence is on the claimer.
What do you mean by "sacrificed"? They're not going to cut her up at the altar.
Even the most conservative Catholic churches allow marriage with non-Catholics. The most rabidly conservative may require you to "promise" that any children will be brought up Catholic, but many don't even go that far.
>Higgs Boson was a hail mary.
So were the other things I described. And no one said god was unobservable. My religions have god appearing before the people. These are things that were concluded before we had a way to observe them. Right now the new fad is string theory. String theory is supposedly never going to be able to be observed.
>try to understand that extra-ordinary claims require evidence and that the burden of evidence is on the claimer.
Have fun in the stone age. Progress is made from leaps of faith. Einstein got relativity from a dream about trains.
>God creates Lucifer
>God is omniscient and omnipotent
>God created Lucifer knowing and planning to be disobeyed
>God created man
>God created Tree of Knowledge
>God created Man knowing and planning on them eating from Tree of Knowledge because the angel he created to be a betrayer would convince them to do so
>God wrings his hands and giggles like a little shit as his plans come together perfectly, as humans blame all of their faults on themselves and praise him, not knowing the entire game was rigged from the start
A guy like that is going to get you. Don't trust an omniscient creator deity.
>a god that had the power to prevent that but didn't isn't a god worth praying to
Thats nothing more than a child crying to a parent. You only want free will when its convenient to you. Most people think god has a plan. Thanks to hitler the world now has hitler as an example of unexcuseable evil and hitler can come up with a clear antagonist.
They didnt die for no reason. Hitlers actions pushed civil rights hundreds of years forward because no one could argue for racism and say hitler was wrong at the same time.
Youre just another butthurt angsty teenager whos mad things didnt go the way you would like it sounds like.
>Since when are the evil actions of man Gods fault
He has a plan for all of us right?
So he literally creates us knowing who is going to go to be born deformed or starve or be murdered and most importantly who is going to Hell.
Seems like a shitty God to believe in.
To be honest the most logical thing to believe in is the Sun.
>Give faggots free will
>see that they are going to act like faggots
>let the act like faggots but try to guide them while they are doing so
>GOD WHY SHOULD I TRUST YOU. WHEN YOU LET ME ACT LIKE A FAGGOT
>So he literally creates us knowing who is going to go to be born deformed or starve or be murdered and most importantly who is going to Hell.
Would you rather not be created?
You really sound like a spoiled child.
There's no such thing as free will when an omniscient being is involved. Everything you do, you were programmed to do, because he'd see exactly what you would do from the start when you were created.
>Would you rather not be created?
I wouldn't have cared because I never would have existed, it's just like before I was born.
I'm not all "boy I sure am upset I don't exist yet!", same thing is going to happen when I die I just won't exist anymore so I won't care. I don't know why people are afraid of this outcome for death.
How do I sound spoiled for not believing in something irrational?
Arguing with people who believe in God at this stage of human history is just always baffling.
Thats not free will works.
If you travel at the speed of light. You would experience all of time in one moment. That does not put any chains on anyones will.
You could say you made your choice the moment he saw it. Which is true since its your fucking choice.
and this argument for omniscience shows such a weak understanding of concepts.
>Youre just another butthurt angsty teenager whos mad things didnt go the way you would like it sounds like.
stop projecting, I'm not trying to be an edgelord here
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you're free to believe whatever you want. But personally after going to see the holocaust sites in eastern europe I had a lot of trouble believing in an inherently good and caring god anymore. If there is a creator (and I think our existence here on earth seems to suggest that there are potentially things beyond our current understanding) it seems to me that he takes an extremely hands off approach to the affairs of men, which makes it difficult for me to see much meaning in organized worship.
I'm very surprised to hear you say this, man has free will.
>I wouldn't have cared because I never would have existed
You think you can tell a parent that you shouldnt have been born. I wouldnt give a shit how my child felt and just called them ungrateful. I can easily imagine God doing the same. Im going to have kids. Do you think I give a shit if the child regrets being born. If god feels its best then it probably is.
Is her belief in god important enough to her as your belief/non belief in whatever you believe? If you just don't care, then does ti really matter? If your beliefs are important to you, have you relayed them as such?
I don't think you understand omniscience and omnipotence, yourself. Knowing literally everything and having infinite power means that you've made the choices for whatever you create before you even create it. You'd be wholly responsible for every situation and every decision. There's no way around it. The only way free will can exist with a creator deity is if he's not all-knowing, and he just threw some shit together to see what would happen.
Doesn't matter a whole lot, anyway.
No one cares since its best for you. Who decided that. God. Deal with it.
So youre going to ignore the part about how the holocaust gave the world perspective and forced people to accept that discrimination is evil. Did you want god to just brainwash people into believing that.
You want free will, you got it. You seem to think that people worship god because they expect him to hold their hand through life and make sure that they feel good. Thats not why.
You are not born in a vacuum. You have a life you are able to do things in. Free will doesnt give you power over factors beyond your control. Thats where people believe god comes in. Honestly were are fairly powerless if the circumstances arent right. Why I gave the vacuum example.
there's still plenty of discrimination today and there have been many genocides since the holocaust
sure we got israel out of it but that's only created a whole host of problems and suffering of its own
so why do you worship god?
>Knowing literally everything and having infinite power means that you've made the choices for whatever you create before you even create it.
No. You give something free will. Meaning its will is not chained down by anything. You can only observe the choices made. Not change them.
That being said this is an underdeveloped idea of omnipotence and omniscience.
When the only thing that determines your will is your will. Then its free will.
>You think you can tell a parent that you shouldnt have been born
You are missing my point.
If I never existed my parents wouldn't have cared because I would have been replaced by someone else unless for some reason my parents lose the ability to have children.
Do you think a father weeps for the 400 million potential children he just murdered after he's done masturbating? Lmao.
I can't argue with you fucking Christfags, me arguing about God's existence with you is like me trying to argue that Unicorns exist. I literally have the same amount of ammunition as you do to support my claim.
Good luck after dying that out of the thousands of religions and Gods you totally picked the right one bro! Christianity is true because most of the people in the world believe in it, and they're all very intelligent people :^)
Dude. The civil rights movement won because of Hitler. That discrimination around the world was put into light and forced out of the darkness. Are you so childish as to ignore that because youre not happy with how.
You dont get to pick the terms of how god works. People just trust that its for the best. You think that you could have fixed civil rights best but thats just a child telling a parent he can do something better than him. He doesnt know as much and why the parent does things the way the parent does.
You are missing the point. You parents wanted you to be born. Not you.
>Do you think a father weeps for the 400 million potential children he just murdered after he's done masturbating? Lmao.
This is such a shitty analogy its not worth a retort.
By your logic then my parents are God? I don't understand what point you're trying to make. My specific existence is irrelevant if I were replaced by someone else.
Also good work ignoring everything else in my post, that's pretty much arguing on 4chan in general.
If you're going to try and defend your extremely flawed beliefs then you better try harder.
>If god feels its best then it probably is.
So everything that happens is because God feels it's best? Miscarriages happen because God changed his mind? Or does he only influence the fertilization specifically, and everything after is random chance? In which case, he has just as good a chance as us at knowing if having the baby is best.
>By your logic then my parents are God?
flawed logic. Wonder why god is considered a father?
>My specific existence is irrelevant if I were replaced by someone else.
Not to god. enjoy you life.
>Also good work ignoring everything else in my post
I didnt see any coherent arguments in the rest. Just talk about unicorns. Would you like to try again.
>enjoy your life
>JUST DON'T HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE
>JUST DON'T BE GAY
>JUST DON'T DRINK
How is it not a coherent argument? Tell me how there is more proof of God than Unicorns then I will shut the fuck up. I'm sick of this 'faith' argument, God is sadistic that he doesn't tell us he exists and instead let's us live our lives in doubt. If God gave us intelligence then why does he make it increasingly difficult believe he exists?
He 'created' animals that kill people whether provoked or not, "yeah I think this 3 year old girl isn't doing a good enough job believing in me I'm gonna have her mauled by a dog, or bitten by poisonous spider / snake'
Are you telling me these animals are acting on free will and not the instinct that God gave them?
Your religion is fucked.
God decided the best thing was for a woman to get pregnant, then lose the baby? If God designed that, then he's intentionally creating a life and taking it away. Why is that beneficial?
Changing his mind sounds better than that. Otherwise he doesn't really value fetuses, and miscarriages are used to test your faith at the expense of a human soul.
Fucking child. A parent tells you not to do things for your own benefit.
>God is sadistic that he doesn't tell us he exists and instead let's us live our lives in doubt.
He came, told us, you chose to ignore.
>If God gave us intelligence then why does he make it increasingly difficult believe he exists?
Its not. Its like Einstein said, god doesnt roll dice. My belief in god stems his one like Einsteins. I believe in a clock maker first. My religion is just one I chose on faith.
>He 'created' animals that kill people whether provoked or not, "yeah I think this 3 year old girl isn't doing a good enough job believing in me I'm gonna have her mauled by a dog, or bitten by poisonous spider / snake'
Whats your point here. Complaining about bad things happening just means that you want god to strip you of all power and responsibility.
AHAHA faggot! go back to school, uneducated backwater nigger
>Fucking child. A parent tells you not to do things for your own benefit.
Hey swearing is a sin! You're an awful Christian lmao.
Did you also literally just say that your parents should tell you not to be gay for their own benefit? Yeah I guess it's the person's fault for being that way.
>He came, told us, you chose to ignore.
Why the fuck would he do that during a time where the only means of recording history is via writing or very crude drawings? And he didn't even do it in the most literate place in the world (China would have been optimal in that time period). At least multiple facets of history have a multitude of physical evidence to back it up.
How the fuck can you believe in something that was written in a book so long ago without any other evidence to back it up? That is the most irrational thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
>Whats your point here.
How do you not fucking see it? Why would God create animals that kill or maim people unprovoked? Do you seriously not see a flaw in that 'intelligent design'. You can't chock that shit up to free will.
>Hey swearing is a sin! You're an awful Christian lmao.
Do you think Im vulnerable to such pathetic shots lol.
>Did you also literally just say that your parents should tell you not to be gay for their own benefit?
God tells you to do things for my than your immediate gratification. Study what happiness means accordingly to plato and it will put things into perspective.
>Why the fuck would he do that during a time where the only means of recording history is via writing or very crude drawings?
You dont get to decide the terms, he does.
>How the fuck can you believe in something that was written in a book so long ago without any other evidence to back it up?
Clock maker first. Religion second. You could somehow objectively prove my religion was wrong and it wouldnt shake my faith in god.
>Why would God create animals that kill or maim people unprovoked?
Are you asking why god didnt build in a shocker so that animals couldnt attack people. Animals already dont like to eat people and avoid them unless desperate for some reason. We are an animal with no enemy. Why are you complaining.
>You could somehow objectively prove my religion was wrong and it wouldnt shake my faith in god.
Holy kek that is hilarious.
Like I already knew you were delusional, but that really seals it for me.
The funniest thing to me is if you were born somewhere that never teaches you about the Christian God you would be going to hell according to your current belief.
I sincerely hope you wake up some day, I will continue praising the Sun. I'm going to sleep.
>The funniest thing to me is if you were born somewhere that never teaches you about the Christian God you would be going to hell according to your current belief.
Where the hell did you get this misconception from. Atheist I swear talking about things they dont understand.
Believe is something that comes from the inside. If you want to learn about catholicism you should. If not, you should clearly tell her you are not interested in our religion.
Nothing worse than "acting" or "being forced" into a believe you can´t truely represent.
I wouldn´t feel too well to, say, act like i was a muslim for a muslim girl i love. I would feel like a liar.
I´d just respect her believes and ask about them, discuss them and support the parts i agree uppon.
Cause believe is not an oppinion man, it´s pretty important to some people. (See all the nutjobs fucking up the world for 4000 years)
Yeah, I'd do it.
To be honest I've been considering going to church anyway and just replacing the standard idea of "God" with my waifu. It mostly sounds the same from what I can tell.
Where do you live?
70% of Catholic only go on Easter and Christmas. They are pretty laid back.
I moved to a more rural Baptist area, and they are like a cult. If you don't show up every time, they'll send little groups to your house to try and "save" you. Bitch I don't need saving, I'm trying to plant some goddamn tomatoes.
Just be culturally Catholic. Like the comradere is good and they do stuff for the community, which is all I really care about. Feeling accountable for wrong doing and a call to be better is good. I'm just not religious.
No mass doesnt suck. What you need are parents that talk about it afterwards. Discuss scripture. What did the priest mean this week. Explain and engage. And add science. Dont shy away or bad mouth it.
Any girl who would force beliefs on me for any reason isnt someone I'd want to date. To be honest I would only really date someone fairly intelligent to thats a religious girl out the window.
Seeing all these Catholics is a constant reminder that 4chan in general is becoming normie
I mean the community was never massively intelligent but at least they understood that religion is literally a trick for people who cant find purpose in life on their own.