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How much value do you put into good animation?
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How much value do you put into good animation?

Is it an important component of what makes an anime great, or is it just something that's nice to have but not that important in the grand scheme of things?
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>>137884986
>Is it an important component of what makes an anime great
Sometimes.
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>>137885134
Why not always?
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Its a nice bonus in my eyes. I don't really watch anything because it has good animation. I put more importance on sound direction and OST than animation.
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>>137885172
>I put more importance on sound direction and OST than animation
Well that's not a common one.
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So much that I don't watch anime anymore.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjiMuBusCRE
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>>137885316
What do you watch instead then?
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>>137884986
There's a point where too good animation is too much and it goes way beyond normal movement and what you'd expect, exaggerated animation is kinda of a turnoff for me.

>>137885172
Same, that and atmosphere, more atmosphere than anything though, animation is nice and all but if it doesn't have the artstyle and atmosphere to backup what's the point.
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>>137885347
I watch sakugabooru and sakuga MAD.
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>>137885338
His pronunciation of the animator's names makes me cringe somewhat but it's nice to see more people these days caring about good animation and the people who make it.
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>>137885375
>not watching western cartoons instead
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>>137885316
This. Good animation is often the result of a non cash grabbing, pandering, cheap anime. Little anime catch my attention nowadays, so if I get the itch, I just look for some sakura clips on youtube.
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Tammy-kun's new article.
http://wavemotioncannon.com/2016/02/21/at-least-its-an-ethos/
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>>137885366
What's wrong with exaggerated animation? Animation isn't bound to the laws of physics so why not play around with it?
>>
Shouko Nakamura's BL movie has a pretty impressive line-up.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=16977
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>>137884986
It's not the most important factor, but it's an important one whether it be style, action, or your characters emoting.
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>>137885452
I don't want to watch the same old CalArts style over and over again.
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>>137885523
>Nishio and Honda wasted on yaoishit
Oh well, guess even fujos could use some sakuga every now and then.
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>>137884986
It's not that important but it's nice and refreshing to have.

Sakugafags are the kind of people who would praise Phantom World despite being trash just because of the animation.
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>>137885523
Awesome, now I'm even more hyped than before.
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>>137885602
But if you don't watch calarts, you won't be contributing to Disney's money chute
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>>137885489
Who is this faggot?
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>>137885498
It's fine if it's for action or more unrealistic scene but when it comes to character movement in normal scnarios, exaggerated animation only gets in the way, you're usually gonna end up with something really awkward and that takes the viewers out of the scene. OP's webm suffers a bit from that as well.
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>>137884986
The only thing that IG really need up until now is good writer, because their animation is already fluid & great.
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>>137885825
The webms in the OP and your post aren't really exaggerated. If anything, it's more in line with the realistic style of animation. The [email protected] webm is awkward though, with their movements too deliberately slow. It seems heavily referenced or rotoscoped.
The webm in the OP is a better example of realistic animation if you ask me. The robot falls with believable weight and volume.

As for your gripes with that sort of animation, perhaps it's a matter of not being used to seeing a show that's very animated? You'd probably dislike seeing something like a Disney feature film then.
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>>137885912
>Akane lifting Kogami
Now that's just bullshit
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>>137885825
>OP's webm suffers a bit from that as well.
Just stop.
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>>137884986
It's not that important. Take this season for example:

Phantom world looks beautiful,but its terrible at everything else.

KonoSuba looks like shit but is really entertaining nonetheless.
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>>137886073
>Phantom world looks beautiful

That's not animation. That's special effects.
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>>137886073
The animation is mostly nothing special, but KonoSuba actually has some fun bits of animation in it.
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>>137886107
Don't you mean art direction?
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>>137886112
I agree. But those are only segments like explosion girl doing her chants. Normal scenes look disgusting most of the time.
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>>137886149
No.

Because art direction is literally everything about the art style. The effects, the animation, the stills, use of colour, everything.

Jesus fucking christ, to think I share a board with these fucking plebs who have no idea about anything.
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>>137884986
It depends on the anime really. If it's high-action, then good, fluid animation is a must, but so is the choreography of the fights and the very active scenes. Good animation won't fix the jackasses that just flail around like jackasses without any coherence to their encounters.

On the other hand, if it's something rather mellow or comedic, then as long as it's fluid, the art direction is much more important.

What is MOST important, however, is both Character Design and Character Development.
If these are shit, then the show is shit from the get-go.
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>>137886208
>>137886149
Oh, and I should've added that Phantom world only looks good with special effects. Character designs are so so just like everything else.
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>>137885825
The reason this looks bad is because it's showing the movements we perceive at a much higher framerate in a measly constrained 24 FPS.
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>>137886208
>Because art direction is literally everything about the art style. The effects, the animation, the stills, use of colour, everything.

And is that not a large contributor to making a show look beautiful as opposed to merely "special effects"?
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>>137884986

As long as the story is not shit and have good direction, its ok to me.

Fluid animation is a plus.
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>>137886241
>we are so used to Kyoani's god tier character designs that people call them "so so"
We don't deserve Kyoani
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>>137886215
Surely something with comedy or melodrama would benefit from good animation. It'll bring out good character animation which helps sell the emotions in the scene.
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>>137886215

I completely agree with this. The main reasons why I can really enjoy Ping Pong: The Animation.
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>>137884986

Offtopic, havent seen GitS in my life, but is that robot pregnant os something?
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>>137886333
Nah, Kazumi Ikeda is not on the same tier as their other designers.
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>>137886244
It looks bad because the movements are rotoscoped badly, and therefore feel awkward to watch. Literally all movies are filmed in 24 fps anon, and they don't look awkward.

>>137886284
>a large contributor

I just explained that art direction is the ONLY contributor. And the main reason that it looks beautiful is special effects. Everything else is just as bland as the next series over.

Kyoani's best looking show so far is Hyouka. And phantom world pales in comparison to that.
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Why does 2D animation try to look like 3DCG and 3DCG try to look like 2D animation?
>>
1)Directing
2)Animation
3)Art
4)Story
5)Music
.
.
.9000001) Voice Actors
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>>137886474
Because cheap.
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Kouno
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>>137886474
They long for the strengths of each other.
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>>137886013

+1 strength point after leveling up and gaining detective's intuition at the end of S1.
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>>137886422
True that. I think Koito had a good design already, plus Ruru is her own creation and she's pretty good too.
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>>137886415
The belly looks like a ball joint of some sort.
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>>137886073
>Phantom world looks beautiful

Kyoanifag detected

Please use a filter so i can filter you
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>>137886611
Ruru's a qt but the Ikeda sisters are kinda meh.

Give me Nishiya or Kadowaki any day.
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>>137886775
Fuck off. I'm not a ''Kyoanifag'' at all.
And i bet you haven't even watched the show,but lash out at anyone mentioning the show anyway because its the popular thing to do.
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>>137886902
How the fuck do you think that autistic amounts of DoF and chromatic aberration looks good at all?
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>>137886936
You sure you're not mistaking KyoAni for GoHands?
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>>137886936
Okay, so you didn't watch Phantom World? Why are you bothering?
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>>137886936
The show looks pretty goodto me. Calling me a ''Kyoanifag'' is retarded if you actually read my post where i said that aside from the visuals its trash in every aspect.

But you're going to double down now anyway because my little shitposter can never admit he's wrong.
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>>137887005
GoHands have more camera shake that your average action hollywood movie and that tumblr filter

>>137887009
pic related
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>>137886936
Weren't we talking about animation?
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>>137887054
GoHands uses a lot of lens effects along with the colour filter.
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Just report the 3DPD-posting sperg.
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Anyone else looking forward to Bahi-kun's next sakuga masterpiece?
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>>137887251
yno
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>>137884986
I think that good direction is more effective than fancy visuals, but good animation is definitely nice to look at, and isn't so unimportant that it should be ignored.
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Awesome animation is interesting with its different features (use of body weight, realistic reactions, number of frames to put emphasis on a certain action) but contrary to Western animation, a Japanese anime can easily get away with good/normal animation because the main appeal of Japanese animation resides mostly in direction and artstyle, while Western animation usually has bland direction and makes up for it with the insane amount of frames and details put in the entire work.

A small comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mQJo8sXhTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CZqNwakCUE

The animation work of the first easily destroys what the second puts out but the second makes up for with the use of its shots (look at the perspective change when Shiki throws her knife or the quick shot of her hand she uses to land) and the special effects. And I'll be damned if the sound direction isn't actually more impressive and original.

Good Japanese animation is, in a sense, closer to actual movie direction with its "camera" work.
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>>137887890
>Disney "fight" scenes
The best action scene to come out of Disney probably would be the one in Tarzan where the titular character fights the Leopard.
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>>137887890
Definitely have to marathon the KnK movies sometime.
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>>137887890
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>>137884986
>Is it an important component of what makes an anime great

Yes, just like films, a film director who knows his stuff make great shots that helps carrying over the ambiance or message.

If it didn't matter, you'd rather listen to recordings.
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>>137888374
Conversely, when a film is badly shot, watching it becomes a chore.
or at least impact the experience.
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>>137888248
Animation looks forced.
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>>137888448
ironic shitposting is still shitposting
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>>137888248
That looks like some sort of arachnid alien, with its freakishly long and pointy legs.
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>>137886422
I think Kazumi Ikeda made great designs for Chuu2 and Clannad, PW is the only one that isn't great.

>>137886895
Like I said, Kazumi is OK in other shows, Shouko Ikeda is pretty good too, look at Disappearance for example, and some parts of Hibike looked great as well (talking about the designs).
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>>137887989
Yeah, but I'd have to use a scene from GiTS as a comparison to make it fair. Honestly. I haven't scene Tarzan but I just watched the scene in question and it definitely has an insane amount of work to it.

>>137888248
The fact that the movements are so smooth is a testament to the insane amount of frames that have been drawn to make this. The fact is that Disney has much more employees and an immensely higher budget than the average Japanese studio. Also, animation movies are made in a much bigger timeframe than the average TV series. I'd say we are lucky to get even some average/good work considering the blistering pace at which Japanese anime studio work and the obviously lower salary for the employees.
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>>137886107
the animation is pretty good in some parts too
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>>137888876
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>>137888876
Phantom World is a pretty solid production, animation-wise. There's some standout animation nearly every episode.
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>>137888876
>the light reflection changes subtly with the angle of the door
That and the scene where the Nibutani-clone has to undo her bra to make it past the electric wire would be normally enough to make me continue the series but yeah, animation and detail cannot, in some cases, make up for the fact that the anime is uninteresting.
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>>137888848
I think in terms of design, Kyoukai no Kanata and Hyouka are the best. Hibike designs are mid-tier for me.

Disappearance designs were a definite upgrade from the TV ones though.
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I prefer when animation is interesting enough to be engaging, even when it's not conventional or necessarily aesthetically clean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VIAU6FqpP0
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>>137889164
This show was gross looking in the best possible way. 100% matched the vibe of the characters
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>>137888876
Merely having fluid animation doesn't make animation good. It's acceptable, but it doesn't stand out.
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>>137889426
kek
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>>137888921
These moments however, are pretty good. However it's wasted in a show like this where he still doesn't achieve anything. That dog summoning was pretty good until it turned out to be a joke.
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>>137889426
Except that animation is deemed good when a scene is fluid. This is what good animation is about. Whether or not the scene has a lot of details has to do with overall design or art direction. After that, it's up to the animation to correctly manage all of the details.
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>>137886208
Art direction, when you're talking anime, is backgrounds. The art director, as in the actual specific credit in anime, is the guy in charge of background art in an anime.
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>>137889488
It's a comedy anime, doofus.
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>>137889488
I'd say it's more that the work is wasted because of the time and effort spent to do this anime could be spent doing something interesting or that the fans actually want (which is most likely the reason why the show is bombing).
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>>137887890
You make a good point about anime being more cinematic. I don't like the sort of vaudeville routines a lot of Western cartoons do, even if they're well animated.
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>>137889519
>Except that animation is deemed good when a scene is fluid
>merely competent animation is deemed good

Ok anon.
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>>137884986
Animation is the most important aspect. That isn't to say that 'over-animation' isn't absolutely a thing that can happen; there is more to animation that raw flare. Everything that a cartoon or anime is can be portrayed through it's animation, but it is entierly possible to animate something that doesn't need to be, like a strange, warping effect in an otherwise, unstrange event.
>My pein is greater than yours
Or simply making a scene too busy or too difficult to read for the sake of showing off animation skills.

When discussing animation, it is easy to claim it isn't important because of 'over-animation', but over-animation isn't a good thing, just like how poor animation is also not a good thing.
To put it into perspective, let's drop in, I don't know, Sword Art Online. Gash. Trite. But those who watched it will remember it. They will remember, not because it was a good story, but that it was pretty.
Nichijou. Again, gash. Again, trite. People will remember it. Pretty.
Which parts of Naruto do you guys remember the most? The parts with really good animation of course.

If there is any story you want to tell through an anime, do it through the animation whenever you can.
Fuck, shit, just look at all of these webms and gifs, they are show the animated parts, or the visually impressive parts. Many shows, anime in this case, forget to put the important parts along with animation and just have the same 4 frames repeat for several minutes.
Fuck, it's important ok? Animation is super important in an animation, it is THE thing that it is, how can it not be the most important thing?
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>>137890251
>Nichijou. Again, gash. Again, trite.
Take it back.
>>
I'll hijack this thread to ask this

What have better animation OPM or nichijou?, since i saw a strawpoll where nichijou was clearly winning
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>>137886529
>>137886529
>>137886529
>>137886529
THIS
And now I am depresed because we all know that the first thing we see on a PV or magazine is who the voice cast is.
Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the talent that comes from the actors, but when they're only doing the voice, the animations need to express for them.
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>>137890353
Nichijou has the best animation of all time.
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>>137890353
Why not watch them for yourself and come to your own conclusion?
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>>137890528
Voice acting is important.
I couldn't watch AKB0048 because it was bad.
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>>137884986
It is for me. I will watch something with a mediocre/easy plot if it pleases the eyes and delivery is good.

However, I will instadrop most shows if the animation is bad.
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>>137890528
That's something that's pretty inherent to the state of the industry, so you can't really do anything about it.
>>
everything is important in the grand scheme of things stop making stupid and unnecessary distinctions, fuck
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>>137890251
You type like you are super tired anon. Go to bed.
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>>137888572
>has never seen bambi
>never
>not once
Oh, that's actually heartbreaking. You're too old to watch it now, but you really have a part of your childhood missing.
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>>137886348
It can, but it's not required.
If it's complimentary, then it is not necessary, so it's one of the main things you can rule out when trying to balance the budget. Of course there are benefits to it, but so long as it is not choppy or laggy, then it is sufficient for it to be fluid.Whereas with thrillers and action series, good animation should be expected.
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>>137890567
Because in the strawpoll nichijou clearly won and i think OPM have better animation, thats why im asking for opinions
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>>137886398
That show was excellent on all fronts
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>>137891240
While I like OPM's animation, I personally like Nichijou's more since it's very consistent in quality/fluidity, for a 24-episode series no less, and I don't think I've noticed a single QUALITY moment in Nichijou while watching it.
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>>137891240
OPM only has good animation in the fight scenes. Nichijou is more consistent.
>>
I enjoy eye catching aesthetics over raw animation quality any time.
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>>137891368
>>137891381

How does that invalid the point that OPM have better animation?
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>>137891587
Because OPM is an average show with bits of good animation, while Nichijou has good animation all around.
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>>137891587
How doesn't it? When we're talking a series that's either 12 or 24 episodes long, consistency is also an important aspect to consider when judging a work's animation as a whole.

As an example, if it only takes a scene of decent-to-great animation to override the general consistency of a series, then Wizard Barristers would be pretty up there.
>>
good animation is as subjective as good story or good art and sound, y'all are dumb for trying to argue one as better than the other
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>>137891789
Yeah, these faggots just don't understand how OPM is dimensions ahead all those shitty kyoanus shows am I right mate?
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>>137891789
Don't embarrass yourself.
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>>137891587
>OPM has better animation
In your fucking dreams. I don't like Nichijou but it's one of the, if not the, TV series with the best animation to date.
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>>137891697
>>137892220
Stand Alone Complex and 2nd GIG are still considered by many to be the most consistent shows with quality animation from start to end.

I loved Nichjous animation. Fine work for kyoani but OPM did things that Nichjous team could never have accomplished at certain points in the show unless they had movie time scheduling .
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>>137891789
>[Deleted]
Get fucked,shitposter-kun.
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>>137892676
Didn't Stand Alone Complex have shitty CG?
>>
Most anime, especially SoL anime can get away with mediocre animations, since no one will notice good animations while the characters just talk anyway.

On the other hand and since while we're at it, OPM basically had to have good animations in the fights, cause that's basically what everyone who read the Murata manga looked forward to.
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>>137884986
I still do not believe that this movie wasn't entirely traced over CGI
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>>137893040
Only for the OP.
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>>137890927
I have, and that was still my impression.
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>>137891587
OPM had a lot of action but that doesn't mean the actual animation was that good all the time. In Nichijou, there's still a lot of action in some bits, just a different kind of action than in OPM. Still, OPM's animation doesn't stand out when it isn't in a fight, while Nichijou's is great almost all the time. Besides, Nichijou did animated backgrounds several times and way better than OPM's one time it did it in the Sea King fight with Genos. Fight's aren't necessarily the pinnacle and true demonstration of animation. That and Nichijou had double the episodes.
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Someone explain to me how Phantom World has great direction.
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>>137894288
Wrong thread. This is about animation.
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>>137894288
It's pointless if you don't know what direction means.
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