>>137704226 >I'm curious about how things would've gone if he'd gotten his original choice for Servants, really. Iskandar would be restrained using command spells and his fighting prowess would be diminished as a result, so not too great.
>>137704218 >be mage professor in britland >be doing all this cool shit and have a hot wife >crazy tournament coming up >I'm pretty badass, I bet I could take that for sure >got all my sweet magic mercury spells >god damn I'm awesome >little faggot stole my summoning item but I don't give much of a fuck because I'm the best >prepare the most badass fort in a skyscraper >spend all day making every cool spell I could think of >get giddy imagining someone having an adventure going through each floor with me at the top as the final boss oh god >I'm the best >I even got a buddy there too, just in case you know? ha ha >smug myself up a bit >this fucking gunmage won't fight me >can't catch him >he's got bullets made out of his ribs or some shit that specifically make all of my magic defenses worthless and cripple me >servant charms my wife who's there for some reason
>>137704218 Why don't they make more stories in the setting that don't revolve around the Grail War? Expand the universe a bit. I'm sold on the setting but I'm tired of every story being about a Grail War.
As >>137707767 points out, basically everything Type-Moon takes place in the same world (especially things written by Nasu himself), or close parallel versions of it (Extra, Apocrypha, Kara no Kyoukai).
That said, most of the non-Fate stories have more to do with each other than with anyone you see in Fate/anything. Your best bet for non-Grail War stories if you primarily care about the Fate side of things are the Lord El-Melloi II Case Files novels, which are about things Waver Velvet was doing in between Zero and FSN (they might eventually cover what he does after as well, but so far they've stuck to that time frame). As mysteries they're only alright, but they'll give you your fill of shady wizard politics.
>summon a Servant so shit the only halfway realistic way to win is to keep a low profile and engage in hit-n-run tactics while hoping Lady Luck smiles on you >fucking draw everyone to his position and let him show off his entire skill set >waste a command seal on making him attack Saber despite the situation calling for a retreat >after revealing everything worth knowing about your team's capabilities, turtle up in the most high-profile hotel with no plan on how to proceed or even an idea of what the enemy combatants can do, showing your hand and gaining absolutely nothing for it but still act cocky >walk in blind and alone into the lair of a man known as the Magus Killer and promptly get your shit pushed in And so on. Every time he does anything it just makes everything worse, and just about every single time it would have been easy to see in advance that his chosen course of action was moronic.
You can't cure a fool. He was doomed from the start
Basically, Kayneth is doomed from the start because he's been drafted into the role of the guy who falls for every single one of everyone else's deceptions, allowing them to still look smart and effective when all the characters who actually matter see through it.
Also, everyone in the fourth and fifth Grail Wars are really, really lucky that they never had to deal with a proper Assassin actually performing their intended role. A lot of people's strategies would have totally collapsed in the face of what we've seen some of them do in spin-offs (although the grail in Fuyuki can only summon Hasan's, so they'd never have to deal with an Assassin like Jack or Li).
>>137709706 Kerry was pretty well known in Clock Tower circles, but even if Keyneth didn't know about him, it's also well known that it's suicide to directly assault a magus' workshop, much less of a family that makes superhuman expendable homunculi. He didn't even bring Diarmuid. For all he knew, Saber was waiting at the entrance. It's still a retarded tactical decision.
>>137712237 Are you secondary? Most (if not all) 5th War Masters are stronger than their 4th counterparts, it's just that everyone except Kotomine, Bazett, and Zouken were unprepared/inexperienced due to the abnormally short "recharge period".
>>137712109 He knew Saber was occupied fighting off Caster's assault, its the entire reason he launched the attack solo
He thought it was going to be a noble duel between magus families. He was disgusted when he thought the Einzebnerns were doing surprise attacks. This isn't how magus fights are supposed to go; he's supposed to announce himself after getting there, and they come out to face him. Magus are supposed to fight by a code, they have honor, he didn't really get the war aspect yet.
Which of course makes sense, because the three families cover up what the war is really like here, in order to lure scape goats into this death match. They want to fool people thinking its an honorable contest of some sort.
He believed he could handle anything the EInzabern could throw at him as well. Which isn't that far off considering we know what level of magus he is here. Anything short of a guy that's entirely suited to countering magus, and he would have been fine. He obviously didn't know that was Kiritsugu at all, that's not even a question. Rather he thought the Einzebern's had just lost their honor.
Kayneth killing Kotomine's father was indicative of him finally losing his code and honor, and instead playing by what he now understood the rules to be here.
>>137712237 Partly because it came so soon after the fourth, so the memory of all the people who ate shit in the last one was still fresh, and out of the three main families only the Einzberns have anything like a proper representative (Rin is fairly strong, but she doesn't know any of the secrets the heads of the three families are supposed to.)
On top of that, Kirei spent most of the intervening time scheming to keep outside mages who could upset his plans from entering. He got Bazett to participate because he knew he could backstab her and account for one slot that way.
>>137712650 Link? I don't doubt you; I'd just like to read the full thing.
>>137713439 >Zouken is stronger and more competent than Zero Kirei. Not really tbqh, he's just much harder to kill. You're right about everything else though, Rin just overpowers Tokiomi in natural talent alone, and they're both kind of idiots when it comes to executing strategy, it's a family trait.
On the subject of Waver, it's worth noting that his strength is his knowledge of magic rather than his ability to actually do it. When he meets Luvia for the first time shortly before FSN, he can't do anything against her in an actual fight, but one look is enough for him to work out the entire history of her family magic, how it works, and what she's doing wrong. He wasn't as good in the 4th war and he only got to use his knowledge tracking down Caster, but it would have been a major asset if he and Rider had ever actually had to fight another mage.
People in other continuities are generally better at the Grail War because they have more data to go on and, in the case of Extra, more time to learn the ropes. Characters in Strange Fake talk about all the mistakes people made in the 4th and 5th wars that they aren't going to repeat, and in Apocrypha, where there have been tons of Grail Wars all over, pretty much everyone has their strategy down (although even Reika, who can't use magic and only learned it exists when she accidentally ended up with a Servant, is a better strategist than half the people in Zero and FSN.)
They've had four or five grail wars in the Fuyuki system already; its kind of on them at this point that only Zouken knows how shit works even now. Its been at least two hundred years to look into the rules even somewhat.
You even have a member of the church who will reluctantly explain shit to you as a neutral party.
>>137714015 He's fine playing neutral until it suits him to not play neutral. He'll gladly play friendly in order to abuse you worse later on.
The only reason he'd kill you is if your involvement would be a determent to the contest and therefore his entertainment, like he did for Bazett. Since it was clear how it would turn out if she participated, he got rid of her.
He doesn't actually want the grail, this is stated in HF, he only wants what lies beyond it. Which is why he doesn't care who wins as long as someone does. Unless that someone would fuck up him getting what he wants.
>>137703738 He could of not allowed Waver to steal the artefact which let him summon Rider. None of this ntr crap and a much stronger master for Rider. Also much more ruthless so can make most strategic use for his NP's
The first war wasn't actually a war. It just sort of fell apart. The first proper war was the second, and no one made it out of that alive to relay detailed information. They brought the church in after that to limit the killing. The third war lasted only four days before it went to shit and we have no way of knowing how much fighting happened in that time.
The fourth war is, consequently, the first war that actually played out how it was supposed to until near the end. People in the fifth war are mostly worse than the fourth because the people who came out of the first intact and stayed around did their best to make sure that no one coming in was very strong or very informed. People at the Mages' Association don't even really know what happened in the fourth war, as evidenced by the fact that most of them think Waver killed Kayneth. Even Waver doesn't know everything that happened at the very end, and he was occupied by personal business and taken off guard by how soon the fifth war happened, so he wasn't available to clue people in on what he did know (with the exception of Medea's first Master, who he met, but that guy died to early to matter).
He could have not been an entitled douchebag, maybe?
His first and second choices for servants also wound up being the worst possible matches for him personality-wise. He would probably have done better with an Archer, Assassin, Caster, or even Berserker type, knowing how those servants' personalities tend to be.
60-80. It's probably better to think of it as reading a trilogy of doorstopper fantasy novels than picking up one book, because there's not a lot in print that can top it for sheer volume of text. The only time the quantity of text really feels like a problem is in some early exposition scenes (around two of those hours are devoted to telling you how many Servants there are over and over and over again in a short span of time, for instance).
On the whole I would say it's worth it. I would recommend the Japanese version if you can read it, though. The English fan translation is now totally accurate as far as I know, but literalism definitely costs it something in character voice and the overall quality of prose.
>>137715983 >>137716024 So i didnt know this was a thing... can somebody spoonfeed me for a sec? After some real quick "research" it seems like fsn (visual novel) just goes over the story of the fsn:ubw anime, is that right? And the routes are different POVs?
Kayneth altered the contract.Sola-Ui or whatever her name is provides the mana/prana necessary to materialize Lancer,but Kayneth gets the command seals. He can then fight at his full magical potential.
>>137716173 The F/SN VN has three routes: Fate, Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel. The routes are locked in in a specific reading order (Fate>UWB>HF) because each route only tells a part of the story on it's own and a lot of plot threads are left open by the end of one route to be explained in the next. Fate deals with introducing the setting and is the most straightforward of the routes. UBW has the servant Archer not getting severely injured at the end of the prologue like the other two routes does and has him influences a lot of shit that he isn't able to do in the other routes, thus making the plot go in a whole different direction than it did in Fate. This route focuses mostly on exploring Shirou's character. HF is the whole premise getting turned on it's head and shit hits the fan in the worst possible way. This route explains the background stuff that only has been hinted at in the previous routes. Every routes takes place in the same time period but each of them are completely different from the others as early choices changes the course of events to such a degree that each route doesn't resemble the others at all.
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